May Park Hours

I was going to say, sadly, with EMM and DAH I wonder if we'll keep seeing a reduction in park hours like this. Just like with the resorts....if people are willing to pay $500/night, they're going to charge for it. It sucks. :/
 
This is simply not true. Here’s just an example of what can be done in 4 hours at MK on a summer evening. No FPs and no upcharge required. Just a little planning:

Big Thunder 3x
Splash Mtn 2x
Space Mtn 2x
Mine Train
Pirates
Jungle Cruise
Haunted Mansion
Pooh
Peter Pan
Speedway
Barnstormer 2x

We also watched the fireworks and had a couple of Dole Whips.

No FPs? Are you saying you went through the stand by line for all of these?
 
No FPs? Are you saying you went through the stand by line for all of these?

Yes, that's what I'm saying. My point is that the lines get really short at night and if you know the crowd patterns you can do a lot without any FPs. This was just a fun thing we tried early this summer one evening from 8 pm to midnight just to see how much we could accomplish. This day happened to be an EMH morning and there was bumper to bumper traffic leaving the park when we arrived at 8.

One thing I've found over the past few years is that the parks are getting busier and busier in the mornings, leaving the later hours as the optimal time for multiple rerides on the headliners with little to no wait. Rope drop now seems to be the busiest time of the day. Time isn't free and those early arrivers do eventually get tired out and leave well before closing time.

Another thing to be aware of is that posted wait times are intentionally exaggerated at night to discourage late riders.
 
It wasn't long ago when there were multiple EMH nights. MK use to always be open to 11 and midnight with 3 hour EMH. The only reason people are willing to pay is because its the only way they can get to ride anything anymore. Disney's profits are huge enough for them not to continue to keep cutting back. Also, when it comes to planning, we now have to make dining ressies 6 months out if you want a decent time or get into popular restaurants, but they don't even have the park hours up at 6 months out so its just a guessing game.

While Disney Parks are a portion of a company that tries to trade on and sell magic, it is still a company, with public shareholders. Even Apple, with it's $250 billion cash reserve is heavily scrutinized to make sure their revenues and profits are growing.

I certainly understand the frustration, and that part of what Disney has done was create a nostalgia that it's an experience, not a business. That said, I think people who get overly frustrated need to determine if they want to be a customer of Disney Parks. Disney has an obligation to their customers to deliver value and to their shareholders to deliver profits, so as long as the demand of customers is there to satisfy the supply of increased offerings, this trend will continue.

I know it's hard to believe, but it is possible that all these event are actually keeping down prices. For example, in the mid-90's it was $10 for a ticket in the Wrigley Field bleachers for a Cubs game, while today it is $85 for peak games, an 850% increase. The increase for Disney Theme Park tickets is only about 425% so not as bad as some live entertainment options.
 


I understand frustration of wanting later hours, especially with parks where seeing after dark is imperative (I'm looking at you Animal Kingdom!)

But overall, we are okay with 9pm closes. We can do a late dinner/drinks to end the night.
Although for May I think 10 is a more reasonable hour for MK, DHS and AK (at least 9:30 for AK). Epcot is fine at 9.
 
This is simply not true. Here’s just an example of what can be done in 4 hours at MK on a summer evening. No FPs and no upcharge required. Just a little planning:

Big Thunder 3x
Splash Mtn 2x
Space Mtn 2x
Mine Train
Pirates
Jungle Cruise
Haunted Mansion
Pooh
Peter Pan
Speedway
Barnstormer 2x

We also watched the fireworks and had a couple of Dole Whips.


I'm not sure this is a reasonable example. Not saying you didn't do it, but I'm not sure it could be repeated. The total ride time for what you listed is 77 minutes. The average wait time at 10:00 pm for these rides for April 10 is about 18 minutes. I'm not sure what date you were there, you say earlier this summer, so it must have been recent. So 16 rides would be about 288 minutes in line. In total, that 365 minutes, or just over 6 hours. This doesn't include walking from ride to ride, fireworks, or multiple snacks. Also, since Speedway has been closed since January, it would have involved your family scaling a fence, opening the ride on your own, and dodging security.
 
I'm not sure this is a reasonable example. Not saying you didn't do it, but I'm not sure it could be repeated. The total ride time for what you listed is 77 minutes. The average wait time at 10:00 pm for these rides for April 10 is about 18 minutes. I'm not sure what date you were there, you say earlier this summer, so it must have been recent. So 16 rides would be about 288 minutes in line. In total, that 365 minutes, or just over 6 hours. This doesn't include walking from ride to ride, fireworks, or multiple snacks. Also, since Speedway has been closed since January, it would have involved your family scaling a fence, opening the ride on your own, and dodging security.

This is easily repeatable if you know how the crowd patterns flow in the evening and which order to visit the attractions. This example was from the first week of June, 2018. Maybe I should have said earlier last Summer, and not earlier this Summer. Either way, we certainly didn't have to scale any fences as the Speedway was definitely open for business.

One thing to keep in mind is that the posted wait times are intentionally exaggerated at night to discourage late riders and can often be 4 times the actual wait. You calculations most likely include the posted times and not the actual times. The longest line we waited in was for 7DMT and that one was only 10 minutes shortly before midnight. Most of the other attractions were walkons or close. The only real delays we encountered were at Splash Mountain where they decrease the number of loading platforms from 3 to 2 late at night and it takes a little longer to get off the boats.

I can provide more examples if you're interested.
 


While Disney Parks are a portion of a company that tries to trade on and sell magic, it is still a company, with public shareholders. Even Apple, with it's $250 billion cash reserve is heavily scrutinized to make sure their revenues and profits are growing.

I certainly understand the frustration, and that part of what Disney has done was create a nostalgia that it's an experience, not a business. That said, I think people who get overly frustrated need to determine if they want to be a customer of Disney Parks. Disney has an obligation to their customers to deliver value and to their shareholders to deliver profits, so as long as the demand of customers is there to satisfy the supply of increased offerings, this trend will continue.

I know it's hard to believe, but it is possible that all these event are actually keeping down prices. For example, in the mid-90's it was $10 for a ticket in the Wrigley Field bleachers for a Cubs game, while today it is $85 for peak games, an 850% increase. The increase for Disney Theme Park tickets is only about 425% so not as bad as some live entertainment options.

There is always this "Disney is a business argument". that's fine.

To me it is just a simple request, if they want me to plan 60 and 180 days out can they at least let me know what time the park will be open during my trip? Is that really too much to ask of the business?
 
There is always this "Disney is a business argument". that's fine.

To me it is just a simple request, if they want me to plan 60 and 180 days out can they at least let me know what time the park will be open during my trip? Is that really too much to ask of the business?

They could, but what you would see are the bare minimum operating hours. To my knowledge, they never shorten the time open, they only extend. They’re not going to commit to longer opening hours without some trends in crowd level to justify it...because they are a business.

I’ll take the late changes over a basic schedule any day of the week. Later hours really are a bonus and shouldn’t really affect a touring strategy all that much. The only down side to opening earlier are for those who plan ppo meals to gain a ride advantage.
 
To me it is just a simple request, if they want me to plan 60 and 180 days out can they at least let me know what time the park will be open during my trip? Is that really too much to ask of the business?

We've been making 60 day FP selections and 180 day ADRs for awhile now and the park hours never seem to interfere with this planning. Is it really necessary to know if the park closes at 10 or 11 pm that far in advance?
 
I'm not sure this is a reasonable example. Not saying you didn't do it, but I'm not sure it could be repeated. The total ride time for what you listed is 77 minutes. The average wait time at 10:00 pm for these rides for April 10 is about 18 minutes. I'm not sure what date you were there, you say earlier this summer, so it must have been recent. So 16 rides would be about 288 minutes in line. In total, that 365 minutes, or just over 6 hours. This doesn't include walking from ride to ride, fireworks, or multiple snacks. Also, since Speedway has been closed since January, it would have involved your family scaling a fence, opening the ride on your own, and dodging security.

One more thing that I should have asked earlier. How do you already know the average wait time for 10 pm tonight?
 
There is always this "Disney is a business argument". that's fine.

To me it is just a simple request, if they want me to plan 60 and 180 days out can they at least let me know what time the park will be open during my trip? Is that really too much to ask of the business?

That's the catch though. They don't force you to plan at 180 days or 60 days out, customers choose to do that. They make the tools available at 180 days and 60 days out.

It IS actually a big request. A lot of information actually goes into planning park hours. Some of that information is not available to Disney 180 days out. I used to schedule over 400 people in a retail store (estimating floor traffic, register traffic, and staffing needs among other things) and it was a massive undertaking (and that was only for 3 weeks out) so I can only imagine what that looks like on Disney's scale.

I understand the frustration, but all anyone can do is make their park plans with the information provided. If that information changes then yes, you may have to choose between things and make changes. This isn't as if they said the park would be open until 9 and now it will close earlier.
 
That's the catch though. They don't force you to plan at 180 days or 60 days out, customers choose to do that. They make the tools available at 180 days and 60 days out.

It IS actually a big request. A lot of information actually goes into planning park hours. Some of that information is not available to Disney 180 days out. I used to schedule over 400 people in a retail store (estimating floor traffic, register traffic, and staffing needs among other things) and it was a massive undertaking (and that was only for 3 weeks out) so I can only imagine what that looks like on Disney's scale.

I understand the frustration, but all anyone can do is make their park plans with the information provided. If that information changes then yes, you may have to choose between things and make changes. This isn't as if they said the park would be open until 9 and now it will close earlier.

It isn't that big an issue to me. I do just plan with best available. So take this with a grain of salt I am just spitballing....

But come on...they have loads of data at their disposal. they already have a specific peak/non-peak/regular whatever they call it calendar with dynamic ticket pricing because they know with a fair degree of certainty what attendance will be (my guess: more than a fair degree). And 180 days isn't really an issue I agree...most are not booking meals past 9pm at the parks. But FP+ planning is affected for sure...for example as is pointed out in this thread the later the parks are open the shorter (usually) the lines get...you could plan to ride something late night and use a FP+ on something else. but when you don't know the park hours it is impossible.
 

Got it. It's hard to put stock in those projected times, especially at night. From my experience, not many guests report the actual waits back to Touring Plans in the evening so they really have nothing to go on but the posted times.

Think about it this way: Let's say you get in line for Space Mountain about a half before closing time and the posted wait is 50 minutes. In reality, the actual wait is about 5 mins. Are you going to report this wait time in the Touring Plans app so that others will know or are you going to keep it to yourself with the hope that you'll be able to ride a few more times? This occurs more often than you would think.

We rode Space 4 times in 35 minutes recently using this strategy. It's a long walk from the exit of the ride back to the entrance but it can be done. No fence jumping required.
 
We've been making 60 day FP selections and 180 day ADRs for awhile now and the park hours never seem to interfere with this planning. Is it really necessary to know if the park closes at 10 or 11 pm that far in advance?

I would just turn it around and say is it really necessary for me to plan my rides 60 days in advance? If they want one give me the other please...don't make me plan without information you have, and aren't sharing.
 
It isn't that big an issue to me. I do just plan with best available. So take this with a grain of salt I am just spitballing....

But come on...they have loads of data at their disposal. they already have a specific peak/non-peak/regular whatever they call it calendar with dynamic ticket pricing because they know with a fair degree of certainty what attendance will be (my guess: more than a fair degree). And 180 days isn't really an issue I agree...most are not booking meals past 9pm at the parks. But FP+ planning is affected for sure...for example as is pointed out in this thread the later the parks are open the shorter (usually) the lines get...you could plan to ride something late night and use a FP+ on something else. but when you don't know the park hours it is impossible.

Yes, FP planning is affected but you still have a choice to make when the hours are updated. You can keep your FP as they are, or you can try to change them. It's not as though they lock your choices and then don't allow changes.
 
His headline is a bit deceptive. He has no facts to actually back that claim up. I’d worry about it when you see more reports on it. For now, his page is getting some nice hits.

Looking the MK calendar on the Disney site, the first week of October is posted and there is no late night EMH for MK on that Wednesday. Considering that Halloween parties are probably going on 4 nights a week in October which closes MK at 6, eliminating the EMH, if it happens, just isn't right.
 
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