New Disney Ships: News, Rumors, Speculation.....and Names!

[FigmentSpark]

Wow.. I guess I've learned something new today. Thanks for posting this truck1.

I'm assuming Disney shelved these ships because they assumed that travel markets would take a dive after 9/11 (and they did).

One can only assume what these ships would've looked like.

We probably wouldn't have the Dream and Fantasy, if they'd built the others. Glad they waited.

http://www.meyerwerft.de/media/pdfs/pdf/003_RL_Kreuzfahrtschiffe_12022020_4c_Pfade_TNSE..pdf

This should answer all questions about yard numbers. I guess this document is the source for the Disney ships’ yard numbers. And as you can see, all numbers are accounted for by Papenburg ships. Turku still has their own number system.

Those numbers are all over the place. 707 and 708 are being delivered in 2018 and 2019 respectively and there's no 717... yet.

Also interesting, the new Disney ships will be 4 meters longer than the Dream class, but hold the same number of passengers. I wonder if that's just some more complex stabilizers or if there will be 4 extra meters of length that passengers would see?

Also from the shipbuilder's website about the DCL ships, it says, "All ship names, design plans and itineraries are still in development, with each of the ships expected to have their own unique experiences." Sounds like the ships won't just be copies of each other, but who knows?

 

[truck1]

Wow.. I guess I've learned something new today. Thanks for posting this truck1.

I'm assuming Disney shelved these ships because they assumed that travel markets would take a dive after 9/11 (and they did).

One can only assume what these ships would've looked like.

My pleasure. If I has to guess since there was no concept art or rendering, probably alot like the Magic, just bigger.

Something interesting is that two of the hull numbers precede ships that have already been built (Norwegian Bliss is 707, Genting Dream is 711, World Dream is 712).

Could it be that they give numbers to options? So, if an option is exercised, it will get the number from the earlier contract, not the number from when it was exercised?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_built_at_Meyer_Werft

So the hull numbers of the entire facility appear to be sporadic in recent years compared to a pretty steady past. It may not be possible to read anything into this other than the middle ship is the true addition.

Are we sure the contract requires all 3 to be exactly the same, could the later hull number indicate a slight adjustment to the stacks to allow for PC passage? This might explain why Disney pulled the trigger on it late?

I did some looking last night after I got home. nothing too in depth just looked at how NCL and DCL related to each other. I found something interesting.

This is the important part. The dates in which a ship is announced is only the date that everything is comfirmed etc. Not the date on which a line went to MW and started negotiating. Basically what im thinking on why the numbers are jumping, is the dates on which a line signed their letters of intent or an actual contract. Its very possibly that in some cases DCL signed first and NCL came in later or soon after for their optioned ships. DCL for the most part started new, where NCL already had plans in place, and just basically said, build theses. DCL speced their ships for a 2021 and later delivery dates but NCL wanted earlier so a ship with a higher hull number is actually older then DCL with a lower hull number.
Another reason is that Carnival ordered I think 9 ships, but they are spread out between Turku and Papenburg. So they could theoretically have contracted all 9 thru Papenburg but several were transferred to Turku which removed those numbers from Papenburgs list.

 

[truck1]

I would guess that the actual hull would be a different size and might not still be useable as a number. But since the ship industry is SO omen driven, I don’t see them re-using anything, including the hull number. There must be some buddy out there that knows how many omens there are about ships that could throw out a good 15 of them? Challenge… I enjoy a good read.

I was actually talking about this on a forbidden site group.
It's considered bad luck to change the name of a ship once it's named. If it does get a name change, there's usually a nameplate placed somewhere on the ship with the original name.
It's considered bad luck if a ship does not have a bottle of champagne broken over her bow before launch. Though now it's done after the ship is launched.
It's considered bad luck to use water to bless a ship. The USS Arizona had a mixture of water from an Arizona dam and champagne broken over her bow when she was launched and the sponsor, thought for a long time after Pearl Harbor that she might have had something to do with her destruction.
It's considered really bad if someone other then a female christens a ship. Mariah Carey almost did this with her husband with the Fantasy. I pretty sure some of the crew wanted to toss her overboard when she came up with that idea at the last minute on her own.
It's considered good luck to have a keel coin placed under the ship when the first block is placed.

 

[truck1]

We probably wouldn't have the Dream and Fantasy, if they'd built the others. Glad they waited.


Those numbers are all over the place. 707 and 708 are being delivered in 2018 and 2019 respectively and there's no 717... yet.

Also interesting, the new Disney ships will be 4 meters longer than the Dream class, but hold the same number of passengers. I wonder if that's just some more complex stabilizers or if there will be 4 extra meters of length that passengers would see?

Also from the shipbuilder's website about the DCL ships, it says, "All ship names, design plans and itineraries are still in development, with each of the ships expected to have their own unique experiences." Sounds like the ships won't just be copies of each other, but who knows?

I think we would have the Dream and Fantasy, assuming the unbuilt class was built as planned might have been a little sooner though. DCL is nothing if not meticulous in their planning and doing things she it benefits them. The main hd up for the Dream class, was waiting for the right economic conditions. When built it cost Disney 1.2 billion each ,in loans. They didn't pay out right for them. It was projected they would pay themselves off in 5 years but the ships did it in 3.

I think the 3 new ships structurally will be the same, but with different names on the spaces similar to what they have now. They might mix up things like out side activities, like an aquacoaster on 1, wave rider on another etc.

 

[mmouse37]

I was actually talking about this on a forbidden site group.
It's considered bad luck to change the name of a ship once it's named. If it does get a name change, there's usually a nameplate placed somewhere on the ship with the original name.
It's considered bad luck if a ship does not have a bottle of champagne broken over her bow before launch. Though now it's done after the ship is launched.
It's considered bad luck to use water to bless a ship. The USS Arizona had a mixture of water from an Arizona dam and champagne broken over her bow when she was launched and the sponsor, thought for a long time after Pearl Harbor that she might have had something to do with her destruction.
It's considered really bad if someone other then a female christens a ship. Mariah Carey almost did this with her husband with the Fantasy. I pretty sure some of the crew wanted to toss her overboard when she came up with that idea at the last minute on her own.
It's considered good luck to have a keel coin placed under the ship when the first block is placed.

We watched most of the Christening on the Fantasy....we were at the port watching from the elevated roadway of the port in NYC. I don't have a pic of the champagne bottle being broken but do have Minnie and Nick Cannon out on the hatch:



You can see the bottle of champagne in Nick's hand then Minnie's. Last pic is of a few limos that pulled up next to ship.

MJ

 

[Spork24]

I think we would have the Dream and Fantasy, assuming the unbuilt class was built as planned might have been a little sooner though. DCL is nothing if not meticulous in their planning and doing things she it benefits them. The main hd up for the Dream class, was waiting for the right economic conditions. When built it cost Disney 1.2 billion each ,in loans. They didn't pay out right for them. It was projected they would pay themselves off in 5 years but the ships did it in 3.

I think the 3 new ships structurally will be the same, but with different names on the spaces similar to what they have now. They might mix up things like out side activities, like an aquacoaster on 1, wave rider on another etc.

I don’t see Disney going the wave rider route, I know RCL has had great success with them, but it just doesn’t seem very “Disney” to me. Water coasters were all the rage when the dream and fantasy came out, and although it’s a predominant feature it takes up very little actual deck space, so it could be attractive to the new class.

It will be very interesting to see what all they do with all the interior space in the front of the new ships. It may not be likely but an indoor pool area would certainly be appreciated for bad weather days/ northern iteneraries. Years ago I went on a carnival ship with a retractable roof pool, I was surprised Disney didn’t find a way to do something similar.

 

[Snowwhyt]

Would it be bad luck, to have the names of the two ships that were never built(but in process prior to 9/11) for Disney to be used for the three new ships?
If they could use it would it be required to be the believe tI if they could use it would it be required to be the “Believe I I” not that that was the name of the ship but just throwing it out there.

 

[truck1]

I don’t see Disney going the wave rider route, I know RCL has had great success with them, but it just doesn’t seem very “Disney” to me. Water coasters were all the rage when the dream and fantasy came out, and although it’s a predominant feature it takes up very little actual deck space, so it could be attractive to the new class.
.

I just threw the wave rider out there as an example not necessarily that they would use it. I think theyll be relatively similar when they come out but would have a few differences that the others dont.

 

[truck1]

Would it be bad luck, to have the names of the two ships that were never built(but in process prior to 9/11) for Disney to be used for the three new ships?
If they could use it would it be required to be the believe tI if they could use it would it be required to be the “Believe I I” not that that was the name of the ship but just throwing it out there.

No it wouldn't be bad luck to reuse a name so to speak. The US Navy did it several times during WWII. In DCLs case I doubt the unbuilt ships got as far as a name.

 

[GoofyLovingFamily]

Truck1, I enjoy your posts. I learn a lot from reading them. Thank you!

 

[MelSpees]

No it wouldn't be bad luck to reuse a name so to speak. The US Navy did it several times during WWII. In DCLs case I doubt the unbuilt ships got as far as a name.

The navy has done it other times than just WWII. The Enterprise for example.

 

[truck1]

The navy has done it other times than just WWII. The Enterprise for example.

true. Those 4 were the easiest examples I could think of off hand since 2 of them still exist as museums, and they were done almost instantly from the time 1 was lost to the new ship of the same name, not several years. btw, Hornet was the 4th not Ranger

 

[RedSox68]

Just got back from our first Disney cruise, a three day trail run on the Dream. We liked it so much, we made the deposit on the Barcelona to Rome 6 nite for 2019 as part of our month in Europe. Anyways, an Adai crew member that's been with Disney for 7 contracts said he was excited because he was looking forward to being on the new cruises that will connect the Disney Asian parks. This makes lots of sense really. Begin and end in Tokyo and Hong Kong with Shanghai in the middle. I imagine as the new ships come online the older Dream and Fantasy will undergo extensive drydock spells.

Royal Carribean is certainly uppimg the private island game along with MSC's under construction.

Love the Idea of two separate islands with distinctively different features

Has Disney ever "connected" any cruises to their park in Paris?

 

[RedSox68]

I hate to be the one to say this... But at least one person has to wonder if the Magic/Wonder retirement conversation is on the table. I get that they're rated for many more years.. But most major cruise lines start getting rid of ships around the age of 25 or so.

They would be PERFECT size ships to sail to Cuba or even the port of St. George in Bermuda.

 

[RedSox68]

You raise a valid point but the the Magic and Wonder won't be sold off or scrapped anytime soon. The Wonder just finished it's refurbishment so it will be sailing under the Disney name for at least another 10 years.

To put things into better perspective: The Queen Mary was in service for 30 years before it was permanently moored as a hotel and tourist attraction in Long Beach, CA. Disney actually owned it for a time.

Carnival has had their Fantasy ship in service since 1990.

The SS United States has an amazing story (it's worth a Google search) but the airline industry put her out of service in 1969. She was completely gutted years ago due to all the asbestos and towed to Philadelphia in 1996 where she's still berthed to this day. Crystal Cruise Lines was rumored to purchase the ship a few years ago and they even did a feasibility study on it but they scrapped their plans. The ship is still in amazing shape but it definitely needs a good sandblast and new paint.

She can certainly sail again if the right investors were on board. Will it be scrapped? Probably and it's a shame because it's such an iconic ship with its career cut short. The ship was completely constructed in the US and it has the name to prove it. It even still holds the record for the fastest Transatlantic voyage earning the Blue Riband- a title often held by the British.

So...the Magic & Wonder both have a lot of sea life left in them.

If anyone is interested in learning more about the SS United States, send me a PM and I'll be glad to provide you with some good reading material as well as participating in the conservancy efforts.

Every time we go over to IKEA and see her sitting there, it breaks my heart that no one restored this as a floating hotel or even restaurant. The potential is there, but no one is showing interest. She's got such an amazing history!

 

[RedSox68]

There’s many problems with this Tunica MS plan, First and Foremost Disney has spent a lot of money trying to keep casinos out of FL. Why intentionally move somewhere with the direct competition of another industry. Disney doesn’t want a split of vacation dollars, they want all of them.

And have you ever seen the prices of those river cruises -- a 7-night is way more than an ocean cruise! And if Disney did a riverboat at some point, their prices would probably be triple that of the norm

 

[RedSox68]

There's more than one company and Viking wants to get in on it but isn't willing to pony up for US built boats. More boats are on the way. Many cities have plans to upgrade their Riverfront to handle larger boats or already have done so. Those issues you rambled off is no different than hurricanes and changing ports due to their damage at certain times of the year. Memphis is going to double to size of it's new facility if and when Viking finally gets it together. Other cities would chomp at the bit to follow suit.

Article on the current cruising business

http://www.travelweekly.com/River-Cruising/Next-gen-US-fleets-sailing-into-future

Beale Street Landing Cruise Terminal in Memphis

Is this where Mudd Island used to be?

 

[RedSox68]

UPDATED PAGE ONE to include Disney Charm, Disney Grace and my new guess Disney Bliss.

EDITED to correct Gracy to Grace. Thanks for the heads up, Dug720.

 

[Spork24]

Is this where Mudd Island used to be?

I’m not as familiar with the project as waywardMemphian but from my memory of the area this is just south of mud island where the paddle wheel tourist boats dock.

 

[RedSox68]

I’m not as familiar with the project as waywardMemphian but from my memory of the area this is just south of mud island where the paddle wheel tourist boats dock.

Thanks. I used to love that place until they just abandoned it (and the Memphis Belle)