New ECV Rules Oct. 1?

[goofieslonglostsis]

If a guest makes a complaint about a driver, they are pulled off the bus ASAP to meet with a manager. The manager gets the drivers side of the story and if there is a valid explanation, it's dropped. So IMO it's a fair process.

Indeed sounds reasonable. Esp. with the following up directly, which also gives a driver the chance to still have all the details freshly in mind to tell the story.

No, I'm actually home. We were gone for 17 days though and had a great time!

In that case; welcome back. Not bad at all, 17 days! All at OKW this trip?

Ahh, but they have and it doesn't have to be an oversize scooter. Drivers have been injured by ECVs. Just last week I was talking to a driver that needed fairly serious hand surgery. He was in the process of securing the scooter, the guest hadn't removed the key and accidentally hit the control. The scooter backed up over one of the drivers hands. It was resting on the floor helping to keep his balance while he was hooking the rear of the scooter.

Because there are guests waiting to board, we want to secure the scooter/WC as quickly as we can. We shouldn't, but we'll start securing the scooter without making sure that it's safe to do so. I've caught myself doing it.

Yeiks!! Nightmare. Accidents happen way too easily and with the angles the drivers sometimes have to work with it can easly result into dreadfull injuries. Hopefully that driver will heal up as much as possible.

But really, we all appreciate you guys being customer minded and wanting to not slow things down, but always put safety first. You do for customers, so do it for yourself also!

These little horrid accidents is the reason I'm obsessed with turning off my power constantly or at least constantly protecting my joystick and powerbutton from accidently getting hit, pushed etc. Happens too easily with little childrens hands, bags knocking into something, a stroller, you came it. Nightmare material.

 

[KPeveler]

Ahh, but they have and it doesn't have to be an oversize scooter. Drivers have been injured by ECVs. Just last week I was talking to a driver that needed fairly serious hand surgery. He was in the process of securing the scooter, the guest hadn't removed the key and accidentally hit the control. The scooter backed up over one of the drivers hands. It was resting on the floor helping to keep his balance while he was hooking the rear of the scooter.

Because there are guests waiting to board, we want to secure the scooter/WC as quickly as we can. We shouldn't, but we'll start securing the scooter without making sure that it's safe to do so. I've caught myself doing it.

This is exactly the reason why I am nervous about ECVs being loaded on a boarded bus! If drivers, who know the risks and dangers and how scooters move, can have accidents, how soon will it be before that scooter/wheelchair hits a child who does not know any better? I cannot see behind my powerchair, but I have to back it up anyway to get into a bus spot, so how is this all safe?

I will be very interested to see how this works...

If you are there and experience problems, it is VERY important you write to Disney and tell them! They need to know if the system does not work.

 

[Disneygranny1973]

I am a scooter user now, and I wish so bad I could go back to the good ole pre-scooter days. I wouldn't have to deal with all of the uncomfortableness (is that a word?) of being in a scooter. (the looks and rude stares)..I know there are abusers out there..but there are abusers that are on foot as well. This issue has been hashed over so many times it's mush..and I don't want to add to it, but don't you wish it could be that everyone realizes that hey, we are some lucky people to be at the most magical, happiest, place on earth and we're all there to have a good time..so be it if you have to be in a scooter, or lucky enough to be healthy enough to walk the park...I hate that it that the people standing in the line feel I am given special treatment, but the truth is, i'd gladly swap with you. I hope that Disney can come to some kind of arrangement with the bus thing tho, so that everyone can feel like they are being treated fairly.

 

[crashbb]

Frankly, the abusers hurt "real" ECV users far more than they hurt everyone else. With only two spots per bus, a couple of abusers would add a lot of travel time to any other ECV user, but would likely add only a few minutes to everyone else's time (they *might* cause a small number of people to need to take another bus).

Same with rides. Even assuming that someone on an ECV can get on faster than someone who enters the mainstream line at the same time, the person on the ECV would only delay the other person by a car or two. However, they'd delay an ECV user by the time it takes the accessible car to make a complete circuit of the ride.

So why is it that "walkers" tend to be the ones whinging about abusers far more often????

 

[Disneygranny1973]

I agree. And I was glad when some of the rides started making ECV's go thru the regular line.. I didn't feel so intimidated by all the looks and stares, and when they separate you off, I felt like I had gone as far as I could without any special treatment. It wasn't in a scooter for that privilege to start with. Same with the buses. I'm not on a scooter to get boarded 1st. But I don't want to have to wait longer than is fair just because someone THINKS I did, and then have the added worry of hitting and hurting someone when it IS my time to board..ugh. Why couldn't they just leave it alone, or pay a CM to work the stops to prevent those who have abused it. Seems like it would be lot cheaper than the lawsuits that are sure to follow this new way...JMHO.

 

[dclfun]

However they do it, someone has to wait while someone is given "preferred" access. Disney wouldn't have made this change if it weren't within the ADA regulations. If there have been incidents of driver injury due to unsafe wheelchair/ECV driving, then they've probably got the union (?), Mears, and/or OSHA to contend with, as well.

I'm sorry for continuing to say this, but it is NOT preferential treatment to be the LAST one off the bus when you are the first one boarded on the bus for SAFETY reasons, not for any other reason.---Kathy

 

[pampam]

I'm sorry for continuing to say this, but it is NOT preferential treatment to be the LAST one off the bus when you are the first one boarded on the bus for SAFETY reasons, not for any other reason.---Kathy

Please don't be sorry for stating that fact. It bears repeating. Ist one on, last one off. No priority.

 

[livndisney]

I'm sorry for continuing to say this, but it is NOT preferential treatment to be the LAST one off the bus when you are the first one boarded on the bus for SAFETY reasons, not for any other reason.---Kathy

Nothing to be sorry about. It is a simple fact that this change is not providing equal access to those in wheelchairs. It is punishing them for being on wheels.

Truth be told, I never even thought the "old" way was fair. 2 wheelchairs/ecvs can board and 50+ walkers can board. Sounds to me the walkers were getting the preferred treatment.

 

[maroo]

If a guest makes a complaint about a driver, they are pulled off the bus ASAP to meet with a manager. The manager gets the drivers side of the story and if there is a valid explanation, it's dropped. So IMO it's a fair process.

I called Disney Transportation this last trip to report a driver - (had nothing to do with the new rules - he was just mean.) - and I got a prompt conversation with a manager - it was nice to feel heard. Hopefully they will take note for the future, too...maybe if he has a lot of complaints, they will do something. It is hard to "prove" meanness - but hopefully more people will know how and when to complain.

I had so many great bus drivers!!

I'll give MagicBus a too. Really nice guy in person too

Just an FYI, I was incredulous at Ruth's issue with her scooter. Someone should have sent it to her resort vs. having her struggle to pick it up. She was staying on property, after all. I still don't understand how the CM's involved didn't realize that she didn't have the ability to get to the park and back to the resort w/o a scooter to start with!

There are two issues here, really- the size restrictions of ECV's and the new staging/queuing areas. I can understand that if someone has been visiting WDW for years in the same size scooter that they'd be upset to find out that the rules had changed. I have no solution as there's no way to send correspondence to every guest who might be using an ECV. Perhaps we don't know about it, but I'm surprised that driver's haven't been injured and buses damaged by ECV's that are really too large to navigate and fit safely on the ramps, esp. in the older buses. As to someone taking it out on the driver- that's a no-brainer. Don't shoot the messenger!

As to safety with the new queue areas, as I've mentioned it really will be a problem for me. I stay away from tight quarters as someone can easily dislodge some tubing and then I can't breathe. Skye can alert if something's loose but she can't put it back on. Kids often swing the chains or just fiddle with something when they're bored and parents don't notice what they're doing. Trust me on this one. I also don't have the physical tolerance to wait at the end of the day, or even in the middle of the day if I'm going back to the resort because I'm exhausted. Ruth brought up a good point about shade. I'm not about to subject my service dog to overheating on hot pavement or in the hot sun.
Again, I'll wait to read more reports. I do trust Disney to do the right thing as they do re-evaluate procedures that don't work. It just makes me think that alot of nondisabled guests have whined about having to wait for those of us with special needs. ---Kathy

Do you travel alone? I just wondered what you do if something comes loose? Would it completely freak you out to have someone you don't know come to help? I think I would know how to help - but I am afraid I would be afraid to help?? Does that make any sense??

Agree. That was really disturbing.

I think it may be directly related to the practically once a week threads where people were whining about it and other posters were saying - "OK, don't complain here. Contact WDW and tell them your complaint."
If only a few did from each thread, that would be a lot of complaints.

This makes me so sad...as many GREAT thing that the DIS has done for people...that it would cause harm makes me sad.

I am sure this is the reason for the change. I am really disappointed that Disney is letting the whiners win. I fail to see how forcing wheelchair and ecv users to wait through several buses, while walkers behind the wheelchair board the bus is considered "equal access".

Could not have said this any better!

Frankly, the abusers hurt "real" ECV users far more than they hurt everyone else. With only two spots per bus, a couple of abusers would add a lot of travel time to any other ECV user, but would likely add only a few minutes to everyone else's time (they *might* cause a small number of people to need to take another bus).

Same with rides. Even assuming that someone on an ECV can get on faster than someone who enters the mainstream line at the same time, the person on the ECV would only delay the other person by a car or two. However, they'd delay an ECV user by the time it takes the accessible car to make a complete circuit of the ride.

So why is it that "walkers" tend to be the ones whinging about abusers far more often????

Personally...I think most of the ECV users realize that there are a TON of reasons someone could need one. And we know how horrible it is to have to use one - the stares we get, etc.

So frankly...I don't think it really happens that much. I used to be one of those people that thought there were people abusing the system...until I needed to USE the system.

I mean...what a pain. You gotta call and rent the stupid thing. It costs hundreds of dollars over the course of a trip. You have to deal with loading and unloading in front of hundreds of staring people that wish you would hurry. It is a horrible feeling.

Who would do that to themselves on purpose? You are last to get off going anywhere. It doesn't really work to get you forward in lines (it helps on a few, but hurts on a few and basically works out in the end)...so once you have done it...it is hard to really imagine someone CHOOSING to do it???

Is this just me?

I guess I just know...for me...that being on all sides of this (regular guest walking, guest in the party of someone in a wheelchair and guest in a wheelchair themselves)...that it has been a very eye opening experience for me.

 

[icouldlivethere]

Personally...I think most of the ECV users realize that there are a TON of reasons someone could need one. And we know how horrible it is to have to use one - the stares we get, etc.

So frankly...I don't think it really happens that much. I used to be one of those people that thought there were people abusing the system...until I needed to USE the system.

I mean...what a pain. You gotta call and rent the stupid thing. It costs hundreds of dollars over the course of a trip. You have to deal with loading and unloading in front of hundreds of staring people that wish you would hurry. It is a horrible feeling.

Who would do that to themselves on purpose? You are last to get off going anywhere. It doesn't really work to get you forward in lines (it helps on a few, but hurts on a few and basically works out in the end)...so once you have done it...it is hard to really imagine someone CHOOSING to do it???

Is this just me?

I guess I just know...for me...that being on all sides of this (regular guest walking, guest in the party of someone in a wheelchair and guest in a wheelchair themselves)...that it has been a very eye opening experience for me.

I couldn't agree with you more!! I don't know why anyone would want to go through all of the trouble of renting an ECV who didn't need one. I know I'm constantly getting left behind by my dh because he's able to walk and I have to try and maneuver through the crowds. I don't know about the rest of you but I have people walk in front me and cut me off all of the time and then I'll get a stream of people just keep walking in front of me and look right at me and nobody stops and says hey you go ahead. People seem to think that they have the right to walk in front of me and I have to stop for them. They don't exactly give you much room or time to stop either. Who would choose to endure the stares you get on the buses and in the lines.

I really think that most people who use ECV's do really need them. I don't think there are many abusers out there.

 

[Ashton7]

I couldn't agree with you more!! I don't know why anyone would want to go through all of the trouble of renting an ECV who didn't need one. I know I'm constantly getting left behind by my dh because he's able to walk and I have to try and maneuver through the crowds. I don't know about the rest of you but I have people walk in front me and cut me off all of the time and then I'll get a stream of people just keep walking in front of me and look right at me and nobody stops and says hey you go ahead. People seem to think that they have the right to walk in front of me and I have to stop for them. They don't exactly give you much room or time to stop either. Who would choose to endure the stares you get on the buses and in the lines.

I really think that most people who use ECV's do really need them. I don't think there are many abusers out there.

Thank you! I absolutely agree. I find it ridiculous the number of able-bodied people who insist on claiming that they "just know" that someone they saw at the parks was an "abuser" and didn't really need an ECV or a wheelchair. Really? They're psychic? What it ultimately comes down for me is, *I don't care why they are using a mobility device*! It is none of my business. If they paid to rent one for a day or a week and they want to deal with the baggage that comes along with it, that is THEIR business.

 

[cm8]

Thank you! I absolutely agree. I find it ridiculous the number of able-bodied people who insist on claiming that they "just know" that someone they saw at the parks was an "abuser" and didn't really need an ECV or a wheelchair. Really? They're psychic? What it ultimately comes down for me is, *I don't care why they are using a mobility device*! It is none of my business. If they paid to rent one for a day or a week and they want to deal with the baggage that comes along with it, that is THEIR business.

 

[kimsuenew]

Yes, you should be fine - At this point the only commonly rented scooter we can find that will not be allowed is the Dream scooter, which is not rented by Apple. Check out the new sticky at the top of the page for more info on the change.

Is this still the case? Will even the largest ECV's (available from local rental companies) fit the new WDW specs? TIA!

 

[kimsuenew]

Is this still the case? Will even the largest ECV's (available from local rental companies) fit the new WDW specs? TIA!

PS: For anyone that has been there as of late, are the changes going any smoother now that they have had several months to put them in practice? Are ECV/WC users still needing to wait for several buses to be loaded? Are all of the boxes put in? We are planning an July or August trip and I want to make sure that I am prepared! TIA!

 

[KPeveler]

Is this still the case? Will even the largest ECV's (available from local rental companies) fit the new WDW specs? TIA!

They are actually not new WDW specs, but only WDW enforcing ADA standards, which are 20 years old.

The only scooter that I know of which will NOT fit into the appropriate space is the Dream scooter. All other scooters, even the large ones, will fit. Even the massive-looking WDW scooters will fit with room to spare!

The change was made for safety reasons - if the scooter is too large, then it cannot fit into the proper spot on the bus, and cannot be tied down.

You should be fine with pretty much any rental except the Dream scooter.

 

[SueM in MN]

We just came home from WDW on April 15. The boxes were painted at all bus stops at OKW along with this sign.

We didn’t go to any other resorts on this trip, so I can’t tell if the box was painted at all resorts, but I did see them at POR in October.
We used the buses at all parks and I did not see any painted boxes or signs at any of the park bus stops.

We had no trouble loading DD’s wheelchair, but we were at OKW, where the buses generally are not as full and we also were never traveling at peak times.
When we leave a park at closing, we hang around for a while and don’t rush right out. This has 2 positive effects.
First, we are not fighting the crowds to get out - by the time we are leaving, the crowds are thin and we can’t go out without any trouble.
Second, by leaving later, we let the first one or 2 crowded buses leave and by the time we reach the bus stop, there are usually very few people waiting.

Regarding the Dream Scooter, it is larger than will fit in the box and is too heavy to go up the lift on lift buses with the guest sitting on it. I have received a PM from the company that rents Dream Scooters saying that they have been advised to tell renters they may not use the lift buses, but can use the ramp buses. I don’t have any independent confirmation of that.

As KPeveler mentioned, even the very large looking park rental ECVs would be small enough to fit in the painted box. I know because I measured one.

 

[kimsuenew]

They are actually not new WDW specs, but only WDW enforcing ADA standards, which are 20 years old.

The only scooter that I know of which will NOT fit into the appropriate space is the Dream scooter. All other scooters, even the large ones, will fit. Even the massive-looking WDW scooters will fit with room to spare!

The change was made for safety reasons - if the scooter is too large, then it cannot fit into the proper spot on the bus, and cannot be tied down.

You should be fine with pretty much any rental except the Dream scooter.

We just came home from WDW on April 15. The boxes were painted at all bus stops at OKW along with this sign.

We didn’t go to any other resorts on this trip, so I can’t tell if the box was painted at all resorts, but I did see them at POR in October.
We used the buses at all parks and I did not see any painted boxes or signs at any of the park bus stops.

We had no trouble loading DD’s wheelchair, but we were at OKW, where the buses generally are not as full and we also were never traveling at peak times.
When we leave a park at closing, we hang around for a while and don’t rush right out. This has 2 positive effects.
First, we are not fighting the crowds to get out - by the time we are leaving, the crowds are thin and we can’t go out without any trouble.
Second, by leaving later, we let the first one or 2 crowded buses leave and by the time we reach the bus stop, there are usually very few people waiting.

Regarding the Dream Scooter, it is larger than will fit in the box and is too heavy to go up the lift on lift buses with the guest sitting on it. I have received a PM from the company that rents Dream Scooters saying that they have been advised to tell renters they may not use the lift buses, but can use the ramp buses. I don’t have any independent confirmation of that.

As KPeveler mentioned, even the very large looking park rental ECVs would be small enough to fit in the painted box. I know because I measured one.

Thank you both, I appreciate your reply now (and all of the work and explanations that you do in this forum)!

 

[A Mickeyfan]

Frankly, the abusers hurt "real" ECV users far more than they hurt everyone else. With only two spots per bus, a couple of abusers would add a lot of travel time to any other ECV user, but would likely add only a few minutes to everyone else's time (they *might* cause a small number of people to need to take another bus).

Same with rides. Even assuming that someone on an ECV can get on faster than someone who enters the mainstream line at the same time, the person on the ECV would only delay the other person by a car or two. However, they'd delay an ECV user by the time it takes the accessible car to make a complete circuit of the ride.

So why is it that "walkers" tend to be the ones whinging about abusers far more often????

Well maybe because some "walkers" are handicapped as well, but you just don't see that? There are many handicaps that you don't see right away, not all deal with the ability to walk or not to walk. So while you got to go thru a line "faster", you may have to wait for that one or two cars in the attraction or that spot on the bus, that walking handicapped person is waiting inline with the others longer. Handicapped is handicapped and they all fall under the same guidelines... I am not being rude, but trying to show there could be others like you in that line, you just don't see them as easy as they can see you.
And yes... the abusers hurt everyone involved.. they hurt those that do need the EVC/wheelchairs, they hurt the handicapped on the line and they hurt the regular people on the lines as well.. they abuse the system because they can. Disney allows it. Disney should start asking to see some proof that they are handicapped (such as a real statement from the doctor) beside the fact they are in a chair. Heck, I could rent one and there is nothing wrong with me.

 

[peemagg]

Well maybe because some "walkers" are handicapped as well, but you just don't see that? There are many handicaps that you don't see right away, not all deal with the ability to walk or not to walk. So while you got to go thru a line "faster", you may have to wait for that one or two cars in the attraction or that spot on the bus, that walking handicapped person is waiting inline with the others longer. Handicapped is handicapped and they all fall under the same guidelines... I am not being rude, but trying to show there could be others like you in that line, you just don't see them as easy as they can see you.
And yes... the abusers hurt everyone involved.. they hurt those that do need the EVC/wheelchairs, they hurt the handicapped on the line and they hurt the regular people on the lines as well.. they abuse the system because they can. Disney allows it. Disney should start asking to see some proof that they are handicapped (such as a real statement from the doctor) beside the fact they are in a chair. Heck, I could rent one and there is nothing wrong with me.

The only problem with the idea of showing proof is that it is against the law. No one can ask me about why I need the chair anymore than they can ask anyone just walking down the street for their medical history.

 

[KPeveler]

Well maybe because some "walkers" are handicapped as well, but you just don't see that? There are many handicaps that you don't see right away, not all deal with the ability to walk or not to walk. So while you got to go thru a line "faster", you may have to wait for that one or two cars in the attraction or that spot on the bus, that walking handicapped person is waiting inline with the others longer. Handicapped is handicapped and they all fall under the same guidelines... I am not being rude, but trying to show there could be others like you in that line, you just don't see them as easy as they can see you.
And yes... the abusers hurt everyone involved.. they hurt those that do need the EVC/wheelchairs, they hurt the handicapped on the line and they hurt the regular people on the lines as well.. they abuse the system because they can. Disney allows it. Disney should start asking to see some proof that they are handicapped (such as a real statement from the doctor) beside the fact they are in a chair. Heck, I could rent one and there is nothing wrong with me.

Yes, there are hidden disabilities (btw, many/most people with disabilities try to avoid the term handicapped).

However, you should know that your proposal is against the law. It is against the ADA to require proof of disability. There are a whole list of good reasons for that.

In this country we have to pay to go to the doctor - it would be discriminating to require people to pay for a doctors appointment just so that they can use the wheelchair they need.

Most of us who are disabled have that disability even when we leave WDW. I am a full time wheelchair user. So how often and where should I have to prove my disability? I can guarantee you that the 19 yr old sitting behind the guest relations counter has NO idea how to treat my condition, or would even know what it is! My medical condition is NONE of their business. I need a wheelchair to enjoy the parks, and the ADA gives me the right to do so.

How often would I be required to prove my disability? In a store? When I went into Target? When I checked out? Both times? Would a stranger on the street be allowed to ask? What about a police man? Would all be people be required by law to carry proof of their physical abilities, or just people with disabilities? (I know there are requirements for special services such as reduced bus fare or parking spots, but that is a SPECIAL access, not EQUAL access).

My mother once pinched a nerve in her foot and had to stay off it for 3 days in WDW. Should we have had to go to an ER in the area (our insurance would have only covered an ER visit out of area) for something that is NOT an emergency, thus taking away resources from people who need it? Just to get a note from a doctor? Just to rent a manual wheelchair for three days?

I can promise you I will never carry proof of my disability just so other Disney guests (Disney already believes me) can feel that I really DO need my wheelchair. I will not carry proof of disability to prove I need my wheelchair anywhere for that matter. It is actually kind of insulting to me to have to prove I really am sick. It was offensive to so many people, they even wrote it into law.

The bottom line is that it is illegal for disney or anyone else to require proof of disability to provide equal access to guests. So your suggestion is, unfortunately, illegal and unethical.