New restrictions-more members exchanging points?

[BritneyBelle]

I was just thinking about the new DVC restrictions today and it seems to me a good work around for resale members affected by these is to swap points with another member at another resort. Besides the extra step of finding a member who wants to do that is there something I’m missing? Would that work? (Thinking of buying a VGC contract and figuring out if there is a workaround if I want to stay somewhere else at some point)

 

[SL6827]

It might could work. It might actually be an avenue for the rental brokers as well. Disney wouldn't like it, but it might very well be done.

 

[GoUgaDawgs]

You could definitely do that, but it isn't as easy as it sounds. There is an element of risk and loss of control of your own vacation. Not too much different than renting, except that renting from a large place like David's would at least guarantee your money if something went wrong, like the person you are swapping with intentionally or unintentionally cancelling your trip. I think if I really wanted a place at 11 months I would rent from Davids and rent David's back my points even though you would lose some money doing so. In reality 7 month availability hasn't been that bad where I have felt the need to do that. Would have to be for a special Christmas time trip or something.

 

[Minniesgal]

The thing is you can't exchange points. You are only allowed 1 transfer in or out per calendar year so if you tranfer to someone they can't transfer back.

You would have to book the room for each other and lose control of the reservation.

 

[Sandisw]

There is nothing that prevents it. Really, it is basically each person renting a reservation from the other but not exchanging money.

So, you book a VGC and they book you a RIV. The problem with this is, of course, finding someone who you can trust since one person will always be traveling first and the other person has to trust their reservation, if they are traveling later, still happens.

If you booked a reservation for someone with your VGC and after that person traveled, they canceled your reservation, you’d have no recourse as the points would be gone.

If it were me, and I really wanted to stay at a resort that my points were not valid at, I’d just rent out a reservation for cash, and then turn around an rent at the other resort.

 

[BritneyBelle]

The thing is you can't exchange points. You are only allowed 1 transfer in or out per calendar year so if you tranfer to someone they can't transfer back.

You would have to book the room for each other and lose control of the reservation.

ah, I didn’t realize the one transfer rule. I was thinking you could transfer them your points and they could transfer you their points. Knew there was something I was missing, otherwise people would have already thought of it

 

[BritneyBelle]

You could definitely do that, but it isn't as easy as it sounds. There is an element of risk and loss of control of your own vacation. Not too much different than renting, except that renting from a large place like David's would at least guarantee your money if something went wrong, like the person you are swapping with intentionally or unintentionally cancelling your trip. I think if I really wanted a place at 11 months I would rent from Davids and rent David's back my points even though you would lose some money doing so. In reality 7 month availability hasn't been that bad where I have felt the need to do that. Would have to be for a special Christmas time trip or something.

Davids is probably a better idea, even if you did loose a little money just for the peace of mind.

 

[JETSDAD]

It's typically easier to just rent out your points and then rent where you want to stay. This way you're not having to finding someone who has what you want and wants what you have. People already do this (I just rented a stay at my home resort and plan to rent a stay at VGC at 11 months from an owner there).

 

[BritneyBelle]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I was basically ready to pull the trigger on VGC resale, but then the restrictions came in and now the new Disneyland DVC proposal gave me a bunch more to think about. I’m sure I’ll have more questions before this is through.

 

[sethschroeder]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I was basically ready to pull the trigger on VGC resale, but then the restrictions came in and now the new Disneyland DVC proposal gave me a bunch more to think about. I’m sure I’ll have more questions before this is through.

Your are 5 years out possibly from a new resort?

Is it worth waiting that long to possibly have a very expensive, less prime location, few direct perks contract?

Worst case you can always likely sell your VGC for close to your purchase price if you really want the new resort.

 

[BritneyBelle]

Your are 5 years out possibly from a new resort?

Is it worth waiting that long to possibly have a very expensive, less prime location, few direct perks contract?

Worst case you can always likely sell your VGC for close to your purchase price if you really want the new resort.

You’re probably right, I’m just a classic over-thinker. Even as a kid my mom would say I would get $5 to pick out a toy and I would spend the next half an hour weighing the pros and cons of the ducky vs the teddy bear. Plus I love the Grand, it’s just a bad case of FOMO with the possible new DVC

 

[sethschroeder]

You’re probably right, I’m just a classic over-thinker. Even as a kid my mom would say I would get $5 to pick out a toy and I would spend the next half an hour weighing the pros and cons of the ducky vs the teddy bear. Plus I love the Grand, it’s just a bad case of FOMO with the possible new DVC

I have the classic "wants to spend more time setting up the game than playing it".

If you are planning on Disney for the next 20 years, primarily want to go to Disneyland, and have the money. Then buying now is the way to go. The benefit of DVC is it should keep its price fairly well although it always has a chance to tank.

 

[BritneyBelle]

I have the classic "wants to spend more time setting up the game than playing it".

If you are planning on Disney for the next 20 years, primarily want to go to Disneyland, and have the money. Then buying now is the way to go. The benefit of DVC is it should keep its price fairly well although it always has a chance to tank.

“Wants to spend more time to set up the game than playing it” is such a perfect way to describe me, when I read it I thought “YAS! Someone understands!”

 

[summerw]

Hmmm, this has me thinking. If Disney won’t reverse the restrictions, I wonder if enough member outrage would at least get them to up the number of transfers to one in and one out.
I think things will be more clear as to the pressure on DIsney once sales figures after Riviera opened come out.

 

[CarolMN]

Hmmm, this has me thinking. If Disney won’t reverse the restrictions, I wonder if enough member outrage would at least get them to up the number of transfers to one in and one out............(snip).....

Doubt it. Currently, we believe there is a system limitation that doesn't allow MS to track more than one transfer per use year per membership. Also, rules prohibit

IMO, there is very little (if any) benefit to DVC to upgrade the booking system to allow better tracking of transfer points. Since allowing multiple transfers is unlikely to increase direct sales, there's no reason for DVD to pay for it, either. Also, Club Members are expressly prohibited from receiving compensation for engaging in any Transfer activity.

 

[BritneyBelle]

Doubt it. Currently, we believe there is a system limitation that doesn't allow MS to track more than one transfer per use year per membership. Also, rules prohibit

IMO, there is very little (if any) benefit to DVC to upgrade the booking system to allow better tracking of transfer points. Since allowing multiple transfers is unlikely to increase direct sales, there's no reason for DVD to pay for it, either. Also, Club Members are expressly prohibited from receiving compensation for engaging in any Transfer activity.

I agree, there’s no way Disney will make it easier to do transfers as it’s all downside for them, but you brought up an interesting point with the compensation component. If club members are prohibited from receiving compensation for transfers it must be pretty hard to police as an episode of the DVC show outlined exactly how to transfer points for money. And Disney must hate the point rental industry that’s grown out of this. I’m sure DVC would shut down the whole rental process all together if they could figure out a way to do it.

 

[crvetter]

we believe there is a system limitation that doesn't allow MS to track more than one transfer per use year per membership.

There really isn't a system limitation to it, I think. As I believe they waive that rule of one transfer per use year if you are transferring from multiple UY you own (I know a few people that have had no issue doing so and I was suggested to do so instead of buying OTUP by MS even though I already had done 1 transfer). I also believe in the very beginning they allowed multiple transfers but I thought there was issues with that because a business was essentially buying points from owners then renting those points out, so MS put in the 1 transfer rule (or this is what I read on the DIS).

There simply isn't a reason for DVC to do point transfers easier now because it really negates the effects of the resale restrictions. So I can see them effectively removing the restriction just making trading slightly more problematic but better in a sense cause you could trade effectively at 11 months instead of 7.

 

[summerw]

Doubt it. Currently, we believe there is a system limitation that doesn't allow MS to track more than one transfer per use year per membership. Also, rules prohibit

IMO, there is very little (if any) benefit to DVC to upgrade the booking system to allow better tracking of transfer points. Since allowing multiple transfers is unlikely to increase direct sales, there's no reason for DVD to pay for it, either. Also, Club Members are expressly prohibited from receiving compensation for engaging in any Transfer activity.

I’m sure, but if sales for Riviera aren’t seriously boosted by the resort being open, I think something will have to give. Maybe just bigger incentives though.

 

[CarolMN]

I agree, there’s no way Disney will make it easier to do transfers as it’s all downside for them, but you brought up an interesting point with the compensation component. If club members are prohibited from receiving compensation for transfers it must be pretty hard to police as an episode of the DVC show outlined exactly how to transfer points for money. And Disney must hate the point rental industry that’s grown out of this. I’m sure DVC would shut down the whole rental process all together if they could figure out a way to do it.

Currently, they are just operating under a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. (Of course, they have to know members are transferring for $$). I think the real reason behind this policy is both technical and practical. Technical, in that points represent a real estate interest and thus have no value in and of themselves. Practical, in that Disney doesn't have to get involved in any disputes between Members because if points have no value and rules prohibit compensation, what could the argument possibly be about?

 

[CarolMN]

There really isn't a system limitation to it, I think. As I believe they waive that rule of one transfer per use year if you are transferring from multiple UY you own (I know a few people that have had no issue doing so and I was suggested to do so instead of buying OTUP by MS even though I already had done 1 transfer). I also believe in the very beginning they allowed multiple transfers but I thought there was issues with that because a business was essentially buying points from owners then renting those points out, so MS put in the 1 transfer rule (or this is what I read on the DIS)............

Back then, MS didn't have an easy way to track transfers and transferred points just assumed the home resort and use year of the contract into which they were transferred. Some Members were transferring large amounts of SSR or OKW points into BWV/BCV/VWL contracts and using those transferred points to book BWV/BCV/VWL during the home resort priority period and then renting those reservations. Many of those reservations were perceived to be "spec" reservations for popular weeks. Eventually DVC decided to act and that's when the transfer rule changed back to one per membership per use year, either into or out of the account, but not both in the same use year. (Believe that was the original rule which was later changed to unlimited and now is back to one).

Also around the time the transfer rule got changed, several members got letters re the "commercial renting" clause in our contracts and were told that more than 20 reservations would result in an audit to determine if they were in violation of the commercial renting clause. I don't know if any accounts were "frozen" as a result of those letters/audits, but if memory serves, several members stopped renting and sold off contracts shortly after those letters went out.

A lot of the "negativity" from some DISr's against renting stems from that period. I, for one, was quite disappointed that DVC allowed "point morphing" to go on so long before they moved to stop it.

Just a bit of history as I remember it.