Paid FP options coming soon to WDW?

[The Pho]

That really is a critical issue. And likely by design. And while the things they are adding are great, they need to focus on things with more capacity to eat people. The Main Street theater was SUCH a smart addition to that park. It would eat thousands of people all day long, while not overwhelming the park with new bodies scheduling trips just to see that. And what do they do? They cancel it. I would actually say they should have kept the theater and ditched the Tron coaster if it came down to that. Disney has a capacity problem. But instead of addressing it, they see it as a diamond mine of upsell possibilities. It's so disappointing.

At least Tron is an addition and not a lower capacity replacement. It’ll still help. Magic is at least in the best shape of all the parks to handle crowds. Animal is fairly well off as well, but needs another big thing to counter Pandora. Epcot has had its attraction capacity shrink considerably over the years, replacing omnimovers and just closing rides and shows. MGM lost a large show, a smaller one, large streets, and multiple high capacity rides. After this year it’ll at least be better than now, but that park isn’t prepared for major crowds still. Then around property overall, many things are down or gone, pushing more into the parks instead of spread around the resort. At least Disney Springs has helped in that regard somewhat.

 

[Ariel484]

It seems easy enough to just vacation elsewhere but my family, and I assume many others here, have a deep emotional attachment to Disney. I grew up with Disney and now I'm making memories at Disney with my children. Hopefully one day I will get to do the same with my grandchildren. For us it's more than the money. It's watching something you love and that used to be different turn into something else. Watching Disney change from being the gold standard to industry standard and treating their guests more like ATM's is painful to watch unfold. I think many are afraid paid fastpasses is possibly the next move towards this. I want to, for many years to come, be able to see Disney through my children's eyes and it not be an illusion. I don't want to see Disney turn into just another corporate monstrosity that only cares about the bottom line.

This is me. We're taking my 6-month-old to Disney for his first trip pretty soon and now with this rumor (plus other changes they've been making), husband and I were talking about how we probably wouldn't be making yearly WDW visits. We're just not into all of the upcharges. It really bums me out because I was so looking forward to experiencing the parks with my kid at different stages in his life...I guess we'll still do that, just not as much as I had envisioned.

And FWIW, I used to post on WDWMagic years ago before I came here (I think my account there started in 2009)...Martin has been a member there longer than I have, and he has a pretty good track record.

 

[Planogirl]

Any good publicly traded company should definitely increase profits for their stockholders. However they should do so in a reasonable way that allows for good future growth. Wanting these massive profits immediately seems short-sighted.

Besides, from a consumer perspective, who cares what they want? It's up to the company to make money and do so while providing a good product. Personally I don't worry about whether the stockholders at Shell or Apple and so on make enough money. I only want a decent product at a price I can afford and let those in charge worry about profits. All of this dwelling on Disney making enough money makes no sense to me.

Of course, whether Disney charges too much or not is subjective. I think that they do and it's likely to get worse.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The main issue there, to me at least, is that park capacity has not grown with attendance (in many places it has actually gone down). Crowds wouldn’t have become an issue if they had kept up with the growth. Now they’re playing catch up but still in many of those cases are not adding net new things. When you replace a high capacity attraction with a lower capacity attraction you are only making the problem worse.

Agree with this in theory - but I think we have seen that people don't just want any old ride, they want the biggest and newest and best. So yeah, EPCOT has gotten rid of some high occupancy rides but if no one rides Universe of Energy, who cares how many people it, in theory, can throughput in an hour

now, we could say that they should try to have more "E-Ticket" attractions that have high capacity - or at least the ability to add more, like they eventually did with adding another theater to Soarin' - they should have been able to add more theaters easily to FoP .... seems like the new Star Wars ones will have decent capacity, but not huge. I don't think Tron has great capacity. Hopefully Mickey Minnie's Runaway railway does. I know others have said, but the MK Theater would have helped a lot ... and I think revamping the Little Mermaid or BatB shows at DHS to be "must see" shows would help

We see with FoP though that people are willing to wait in line for 2+ hours because it is an E-ticket attraction, that seems to be what people want. In time, when Tron, and Guardians, and Rat, etc. all open, maybe there will be enough to spread crowds (though I still think they need to expand Pandora or add another "new hotness" to AK)

 

[Hikergirl]

Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.

Of course they should. Disney is a corporation, it's function is to make a profit.
I realize alot of you have this emotional attachment to it, but it doesn't have one for you. It provides a service for you to pay for.
It doesn't "care" about your feelings. It "cares" about what you are willing to spend.

A company doesn't grow without profit. It doesn't survive in down times without profit.
You want new and exciting things at the parks, it comes from profits.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

That’s another “pet peeve” of mine. They should never be short staffed. They shouldn’t be loading one side of a ride at anytime. MK hours shouldn’t be reduced YOY. The paper boy shouldn’t just be turned the other way...

I get the concept in true "slower" times of having some reduction in capacity - I mean, we don't need everything going full bore and then every other boat leaving the dock is empty. But to me that means something that would have 2 min wait, now has a 10 minute way - not a 45 min wait .... I think they took it too far

And fully agree about the paper boy and other less than stellar working animatronics and overflowing garbage cans, etc. - you charge top dollar and try to suck every last penny out of everyone? It better be a pristine experience

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Now all they have to do is roll back the all access pricing.

yeah, which obviously will never happen - but I think that is one reason these extra charges or add ons hurt ... we are already paying "top dollar" just to get into the park. And why I especially think things like charging for parking at the resorts had such negative reaction to it. They said they did it because it was "industry standard" but they are charging way, way more than "industry standard" for their rooms - you can't have it both ways! (or, well, i guess they can since people keep paying it - so I guess more, people complain extra when Disney wants to have it both ways)

 

[dlavender]

I get the concept in true "slower" times of having some reduction in capacity - I mean, we don't need everything going full bore and then every other boat leaving the dock is empty. But to me that means something that would have 2 min wait, now has a 10 minute way - not a 45 min wait .... I think they took it too far

And fully agree about the paper boy and other less than stellar working animatronics and overflowing garbage cans, etc. - you charge top dollar and try to suck every last penny out of everyone? It better be a pristine experience

It's the line they have to tow, if they are going to charge more. I think most people tend to up their criticism when the price point increases. In October 2017 we experienced the half loading of Speedway and BTMRR. Waits were 30 mins about 10 mins after opening. With one side loading. It had a domino effect the rest of the day. We had to cut out a ride here and there to make up for it. I'm still burned by it. There's no reason that I should pay more and then witness such. My only hope is that they've gotten better at their right sizing strategy. But the cynic in me tells me that it's to their disadvantage if people can continue to accomplish as much as they used to "for free" (doing rope drop, etc..). Hopefully I'm wrong here.

 

[Sarah1024]

At least Tron is an addition and not a lower capacity replacement. It’ll still help. Magic is at least in the best shape of all the parks to handle crowds. Animal is fairly well off as well, but needs another big thing to counter Pandora. Epcot has had its attraction capacity shrink considerably over the years, replacing omnimovers and just closing rides and shows. MGM lost a large show, a smaller one, large streets, and multiple high capacity rides. After this year it’ll at least be better than now, but that park isn’t prepared for major crowds still. Then around property overall, many things are down or gone, pushing more into the parks instead of spread around the resort. At least Disney Springs has helped in that regard somewhat.

Exactly this. Everyone keeps asking about a fifth gate. They cannot even keep up with and expand correctly the ones that they have! If they had been adding attractions over the last decade or two at a steady pace, or even slow pace, there wouldn't be this issue with capacity now.

 

[dlavender]

Exactly this. Everyone keeps asking about a fifth gate. They cannot even keep up with and expand correctly the ones that they have! If they had been adding attractions over the last decade or two at a steady pace, or even slow pace, there wouldn't be this issue with capacity now.

But if there wasn't an issue, where would the upsells come from?

 

[Sarah1024]

But if there wasn't an issue, where would the upsells come from?

There will always be people willing to pay for an enhanced experience. It doesn't mean that you give up on adding capacity and improving parks for decades.

 

[The Pho]

Agree with this in theory - but I think we have seen that people don't just want any old ride, they want the biggest and newest and best. So yeah, EPCOT has gotten rid of some high occupancy rides but if no one rides Universe of Energy, who cares how many people it, in theory, can throughput in an hour

now, we could say that they should try to have more "E-Ticket" attractions that have high capacity - or at least the ability to add more, like they eventually did with adding another theater to Soarin' - they should have been able to add more theaters easily to FoP .... seems like the new Star Wars ones will have decent capacity, but not huge. I don't think Tron has great capacity. Hopefully Mickey Minnie's Runaway railway does. I know others have said, but the MK Theater would have helped a lot ... and I think revamping the Little Mermaid or BatB shows at DHS to be "must see" shows would help

We see with FoP though that people are willing to wait in line for 2+ hours because it is an E-ticket attraction, that seems to be what people want. In time, when Tron, and Guardians, and Rat, etc. all open, maybe there will be enough to spread crowds (though I still think they need to expand Pandora or add another "new hotness" to AK)

Well it’s not all a theoretical ride capacity. Actual riders is more important, so yes Universe of Energy wasn’t fulfilling its promise, and guardians will probably be a step up in at least that regard. But that’s not the only issue in that part of the park. We’ve lost Horizons, World of Motion, Body Wars, Cranium Command, and Universe all right there. All replaced with things with less capacity or nothing at all. While all of these could’ve been reutilized for something new, they chose a different route each time, which sometimes is the right decision.

 

[dlavender]

There will always be people willing to pay for an enhanced experience. It doesn't mean that you give up on adding capacity and improving parks for decades.

I'm being a little extra conspiracy theorist today....

I doubt 10 years ago they had the foresight to purposefully not build out capacity so that they could one day offer 100 upsell opportunities. I think it kind of just fell in their lap, due to their own ineptitude.

I'm 100% with you here. They should have not waited so long to make the additions they are finally making. And I'd go a step further and say they should be doing even more than they are doing now to make up for it....

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Well it’s not all a theoretical ride capacity. Actual riders is more important, so yes Universe of Energy wasn’t fulfilling its promise, and guardians will probably be a step up in at least that regard. But that’s not the only issue in that part of the park. We’ve lost Horizons, World of Motion, Body Wars, Cranium Command, and Universe all right there. All replaced with things with less capacity or nothing at all. While all of these could’ve been reutilized for something new, they chose a different route each time, which sometimes is the right decision.

yeah, especially having an entire pavilion be basically unused it a bit ridiculous. no idea what the "capacity" will be for the new Play pavilion but hopefully that can take in a lot of people and be another thing in that park to "eat guests"

So between that, Guardians, Rat, maybe something new in the UK, that should help a lot (granted, they will lose the capacity of Spaceship earth for 2-3 years for that reno)

 

[ksromack]

This is me. We're taking my 6-month-old to Disney for his first trip pretty soon and now with this rumor (plus other changes they've been making), husband and I were talking about how we probably wouldn't be making yearly WDW visits. We're just not into all of the upcharges. It really bums me out because I was so looking forward to experiencing the parks with my kid at different stages in his life...I guess we'll still do that, just not as much as I had envisioned.

This. Our kids are grown and with 5 of them we had to mainly stay off site. We now have a granddaughter and are, of course, in better financial standing. We bought into DVC last fall because we wanted to make disney our big family vacation...possibly yearly by adding on a resale DVC contract so we could stay in bigger accommodations. Now with all of this it has made us rethink our vision. We will probably bank and borrow our DVC points and make WDW an every three year thing now. So this year we are visiting 3 times.....probably wont go back until 2021.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

It's the line they have to tow, if they are going to charge more. I think most people tend to up their criticism when the price point increases. In October 2017 we experienced the half loading of Speedway and BTMRR. Waits were 30 mins about 10 mins after opening. With one side loading. It had a domino effect the rest of the day. We had to cut out a ride here and there to make up for it. I'm still burned by it. There's no reason that I should pay more and then witness such. My only hope is that they've gotten better at their right sizing strategy. But the cynic in me tells me that it's to their disadvantage if people can continue to accomplish as much as they used to "for free" (doing rope drop, etc..). Hopefully I'm wrong here.

I don't know the impact for later int he day, but I think 10 mins for BTMMR is fine - but 30 mins for the speedway right after opening is definitely pushing it too far.

The crowds were building and they added FP+ at least in part so that the most # of people could do at least some of what they wanted. They didn't want people to come in for their once in a lifetime trip and not be able to get on anything they wanted to without hour and hour waits ... now this results in others that knew how to leverage the old systems and how to rope drop etc likely getting less done per day

So it has sort of become a growing issue at least partly based on the system they built - they wanted the most number of people to be at least a bit happy vs some very happy and others miserable, but the crowds keep growing and they are behind on adding to the parks and we are now where we are at

Also, i think society is a bit more impatient so are more willing to pay to get what they want when they want it vs in the past people were more ok with waiting in their standby line and FP wasn't needed at all.

Like most things in life, I think it is a confluence of a lot of things. Ideally Disney would build out more capacity to absorb the increased crowds, but that can't happen overnight

 

[SaharanTea]

Of course they should. Disney is a corporation, it's function is to make a profit.
I realize alot of you have this emotional attachment to it, but it doesn't have one for you. It provides a service for you to pay for.
It doesn't "care" about your feelings. It "cares" about what you are willing to spend.

A company doesn't grow without profit. It doesn't survive in down times without profit.
You want new and exciting things at the parks, it comes from profits.

Logically, I think almost everyone understands it's a business.

But Disney uses emotion and nostalgia in almost every aspect of that business. As such, I don't see how it's unreasonable that people react emotionally about the things it does. You reap what you sow.

That's a little more dramatic sounding than I really intend, but it gets the basic point across. People are emotional about it because Disney has fostered and grown those emotional tendencies and feelings over decades of business. You don't get to use it one way and not expect to have it thrown back the other direction.

 

[DavidNYC]

Yes, this is what many of us fear, and I hope you're right, but I also fear you underestimate the number of people who are willing to fork out obscene amounts of cash. If it's too many, they'll shove me (and many others) out of the park by making an enjoyable park experience above my means--as you said.

But that's the point - if that many people are willing to pay for this - the supposed benefits won't materialize because you've got too many people paying for a limited supply. Imagine the extreme end result - unless you fork over $X, you can't get FP. People who can't pay that just don't go anymore since there's nothing left for them. Everyone in the park has paid, so now instead of paying for some extra privilege, you're surrounded by people who paid for the exact same privileges resulting in the exact same place we are now - just with a much higher price tag. Is it possible they create that system - sure. But I still doubt it. Anything that isn't limited to some major extent, will break the system. And I still stand by my comment on IT not being able to handle this now and if they start having people pay for something and then not having it delivered as promised - you're going to have major issues. Will they try to say that after you've paid for a FP they don't have any responsibility to ensure you ride within a reasonable time - I'm sure they'd try but no way do I not have a major argument with GS if I paid for something and then didn't get my money's worth. I bet I wouldn't be the only one.

 

[jo-jo]

That’s another “pet peeve” of mine. They should never be short staffed. They shouldn’t be loading one side of a ride at anytime. MK hours shouldn’t be reduced YOY. The paper boy shouldn’t just be turned the other way...

Also it irkes me when disney makes the mistake, but we have to spend the time to get it fixed..... for example dining credits system is down so you have to stand in line at the front desk to get it fixed.

 

[SaharanTea]

But that's the point - if that many people are willing to pay for this - the supposed benefits won't materialize because you've got too many people paying for a limited supply. Imagine the extreme end result - unless you fork over $X, you can't get FP. People who can't pay that just don't go anymore since there's nothing left for them. Everyone in the park has paid, so now instead of paying for some extra privilege, you're surrounded by people who paid for the exact same privileges resulting in the exact same place we are now - just with a much higher price tag. Is it possible they create that system - sure. But I still doubt it. Anything that isn't limited to some major extent, will break the system. And I still stand by my comment on IT not being able to handle this now and if they start having people pay for something and then not having it delivered as promised - you're going to have major issues. Will they try to say that after you've paid for a FP they don't have any responsibility to ensure you ride within a reasonable time - I'm sure they'd try but no way do I not have a major argument with GS if I paid for something and then didn't get my money's worth. I bet I wouldn't be the only one.

I completely agree with you. If everyone pays, you have the same system but more expensive. We can see a lot of logistics problems with some of these hypotheticals, and hopefully Disney does as well. That's probably why they'll roll whatever it is out slowly, but we'll see. I don't fear the beginning as much as I fear the end.

Not just IT, what if the ride goes down for the rest of the day after a bunch of people have already paid? What if it's their last day? Sure, you can refund them, but that's another line they have to stand in to get it back (or another thing they will rely on IT to make automatic--good luck either way).