Permit Filed: France Pavilion at Epcot

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't think you will get a real feel of repeatability until the crowds and the "newness" of the land calm down. No one loves it enough to stand in line that long, just to do it again in a little while. I agree though, in a year or so, how crowded this will remain. My gut says it will, and will do well, but only time really tells

You never know...

Mine train is the intersection of a lot of strange factors that they couldn't have possibly planned for...so it's way more successful (safe to say) than they could have dreamed of...

Mission space has always underperformed...

I actually think the elsa boats have NOT done as well as they thought they would.

Avatar is tied to AK and that's the curve...do people drive lines by altering their trip patterns to spend more time in AK? Cause that is how it will have to happen: instead of spending 0.5-1.0 days per 7 (estimate) in AK, do they spend 1-2?

that's how it will be determined.

My guess is the average week traveler spends 2-3 days in total at MK, 1.5 or so at Epcot, 1.5 at studios, 0.5-1 at DAK...and 1-2 swing days off property or at springs, etc.

Disney is desperate to move the needle for AK...is this gonna do it? I say No and they need another billion or so in expansion. Instead of trying to lure people there (the failed marketing plan since NAHTAZU)...they need to make it so people can't stay away/skip it.

Ok...back to Epcot

 

[jknezek]

You never know...

Mine train is the intersection of a lot of strange factors that they couldn't have possibly planned for...so it's way more successful (safe to say) than they could have dreamed of...

Mission space has always underperformed...

I actually think the elsa boats have NOT done as well as they thought they would.

Avatar is tied to AK and that's the curve...do people drive lines by altering their trip patterns to spend more time in AK? Cause that is how it will have to happen: instead of spending 0.5-1.0 days per 7 (estimate) in AK, do they spend 1-2?

that's how it will be determined.

My guess is the average week traveler spends 2-3 days in total at MK, 1.5 or so at Epcot, 1.5 at studios, 0.5-1 at DAK...and 1-2 swing days off property or at springs, etc.

Disney is desperate to move the needle for AK...is this gonna do it? I say No and they need another billion or so in expansion. Instead of trying to lure people there (the failed marketing plan since NAHTAZU)...they need to make it so people can't stay away/skip it.

Ok...back to Epcot

When we were there for a week with 6 park days a rest day we did 2.5 in MK, 1.5 in EPCOT, 1 in DAK, and .5 in DHS. So much of this was driven by our kids ages though, twin 5 year olds and a 7 year old. MK simply has more attractions, so demands more time for them. Plus we did many iconic attractions more than once. For EPCOT, my wife and I spent a .5 there by ourselves while the grands had the kids, and we did a full day with the kids. But the only things the kids wanted to do more than once were Test Track and Soarin. They were bored on Frozen, but my kids aren't really Princess kids.

We did a full day in DAK. It wasn't hard, and this was pre-Avatar. But my kids love animals, so we did both walks, played the booklet game, wandered the tree, went out to Rafiki, and did all the attractions, including some of the spinners and carousels in the Dino Playground area. Primevil Whirl just about had us hurl, so I don't think we will do that one ever again.

As for DHS, we couldn't spend a day there. There isn't enough open and my kids aren't going to stand in line for Disney Junior characters. And while we dragged them into Making a Jedi or whatever that clip show was, the kids had seen the movies and couldn't have cared less. We did our FPs, we don't do ToT since my wife and I don't like heights, but hit everything else and left. Even with the stunt show line and waiting for Jedi Training slowing us down.

 

[Phicinfan]

When we were there for a week with 6 park days a rest day we did 2.5 in MK, 1.5 in EPCOT, 1 in DAK, and .5 in DHS. So much of this was driven by our kids ages though, twin 5 year olds and a 7 year old. MK simply has more attractions, so demands more time for them. Plus we did many iconic attractions more than once. For EPCOT, my wife and I spent a .5 there by ourselves while the grands had the kids, and we did a full day with the kids. But the only things the kids wanted to do more than once were Test Track and Soarin. They were bored on Frozen, but my kids aren't really Princess kids.

We did a full day in DAK. It wasn't hard, and this was pre-Avatar. But my kids love animals, so we did both walks, played the booklet game, wandered the tree, went out to Rafiki, and did all the attractions, including some of the spinners and carousels in the Dino Playground area. Primevil Whirl just about had us hurl, so I don't think we will do that one ever again.

As for DHS, we couldn't spend a day there. There isn't enough open and my kids aren't going to stand in line for Disney Junior characters. And while we dragged them into Making a Jedi or whatever that clip show was, the kids had seen the movies and couldn't have cared less. We did our FPs, we don't do ToT since my wife and I don't like heights, but hit everything else and left. Even with the stunt show line and waiting for Jedi Training slowing us down.

its been 3 years since we have gone. We generally go for 5-7 days. We take 2 days for MK, 1 day for DHS, 1 day for Epcot, 1/2 day for AK(with other half for Waterpark), and if we go 7 we sometimes take a day just to go to the beach or do some shopping at disney Springs or so. If we add another day on parks its usually a split between MK and DHS.

My problem with AK is, we are not really into the big thrill rides. So kids do Everest once, and we always do the safari, but post that, a quick walk through and we are done. So adding Pandora will help there. We as a family have always loved DHS. GMR and Indy and ToT and kids loved RnRC. My daughter and I would spend time in the animation studio, she loves to draw. I am hoping beyond hope that comes back.

 

[Tigger's ally]

Give me 2 days in DAK or Epcot or MK for every half day in DHS.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

When we were there for a week with 6 park days a rest day we did 2.5 in MK, 1.5 in EPCOT, 1 in DAK, and .5 in DHS. So much of this was driven by our kids ages though, twin 5 year olds and a 7 year old. MK simply has more attractions, so demands more time for them. Plus we did many iconic attractions more than once. For EPCOT, my wife and I spent a .5 there by ourselves while the grands had the kids, and we did a full day with the kids. But the only things the kids wanted to do more than once were Test Track and Soarin. They were bored on Frozen, but my kids aren't really Princess kids.

We did a full day in DAK. It wasn't hard, and this was pre-Avatar. But my kids love animals, so we did both walks, played the booklet game, wandered the tree, went out to Rafiki, and did all the attractions, including some of the spinners and carousels in the Dino Playground area. Primevil Whirl just about had us hurl, so I don't think we will do that one ever again.

As for DHS, we couldn't spend a day there. There isn't enough open and my kids aren't going to stand in line for Disney Junior characters. And while we dragged them into Making a Jedi or whatever that clip show was, the kids had seen the movies and couldn't have cared less. We did our FPs, we don't do ToT since my wife and I don't like heights, but hit everything else and left. Even with the stunt show line and waiting for Jedi Training slowing us down.

Ok...you're descriptions are starting to freak me out...

Did you steal my last 10 years of video clips of trips from the Cloud?

(Granted we are in Epcot more...but the rest is almost exact. Mgm and DAK are sometimes skips or "couple hour" stop ins...they just are"

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Give me 2 days in DAK or Epcot or MK for every half day in DHS.

I tend to agree...but the masses don't on DAK and we all know it.

 

[jknezek]

I tend to agree...but the masses don't on DAK and we all know it.

DAK and DHS seems to have pretty much identical attendance numbers pre-Avatar, with DAK consistently squeaking out a win. Now with Avatar opening, and DHS 1/2 open, I expect that to shift for this year and maybe even next year. I don't think TSL is going to be the same impact as Avatar. But when SWL opens, look out. DAK is headed to last. It'll be interesting to see if DHS overtakes EPCOT in the five years after SWL opens.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

DAK and DHS seems to have pretty much identical attendance numbers pre-Avatar, with DAK consistently squeaking out a win. Now with Avatar opening, and DHS 1/2 open, I expect that to shift for this year and maybe even next year. I don't think TSL is going to be the same impact as Avatar. But when SWL opens, look out. DAK is headed to last. It'll be interesting to see if DHS overtakes EPCOT in the five years after SWL opens.

If these rumors are true about the golf ball...
...then DAK is headed straight to last by a lot in 5 years...
...don't be surprised if the elephants start "disappearing"

...they eat a lot of grass

 

[Dfan79]

If these rumors are true about the golf ball...
...then DAK is headed straight to last by a lot in 5 years...
...don't be surprised if the elephants start "disappearing"

...they eat a lot of grass

They can always make the park better with a Zootopia section. And also feed the tigers with the animals from the petting zoo section. Double bonus.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

They can always make the park better with a Zootopia section. And also feed the tigers with the animals from the petting zoo section. Double bonus.

Or bite the bullet and put in the austrailia section that near everyone has wanted since day 1...it just makes too much sense.

 

[Dfan79]

Or bite the bullet and put in the austrailia section that near everyone has wanted since day 1...it just makes too much sense.

You never know who maybe checking out this board. So we should just keep adding Australia into sentences.

"It's really nice out."
"It sure feels like Australia at Animal Kingdom out."

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Like:
"Boy, nothing would make me double my annual expenditures in disney parks and buy bloated disney stock like a little austrailia?"

 

[jknezek]

Oh, you mean because people would love to go see an Australia section considering how many unique animals can be found there? How many of us have seen a live platypus? Probably very few since they are only found in Australian Zoos after the one at the Bronx Zoo died quite a while ago. How about a section on the Great Barrier Reef now that is bleached out? Sure, every zoos has wallabies, but fewer have kangaroos because they are hard to keep. Or a whole section on the vicious spiders and snakes that can kill you in Australia, which is most of them. And of course no one would have any interest in seeing a Disney ride themed on the Outback with Ayer's Rock (Uluru). Or even an aviary with all the amazing parrots indigenous to Australia. I mean, it's not like you could even replicate freaking Soarin and just focus on the Outback and have enough to do a huge ride. It wouldn't take the pressure off FoP at all. And neither would an actual log flume type ride. You know, not a cheap raft ride like Kali River Rapids which seems set up to provide the minimum entertainment with the maximum amount of soaking discomfort, but an actual flume ride based on the River Darling. Or maybe even a true guided boat ride equivalent to the Safari ride, where you go through the many Outback ecosystems or even the difference between the wet and dry season. I bet you could never build a lodge themed on the aboriginal culture overlooking the whole thing either.

No, there's definitely no way to do an absolutely outstanding Australia land keeping with the mission and theme of Animal Kingdom...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

And of course no one would have any interest in seeing a Disney ride themed on the Outback with Ayer's Rock (Uluru).

Ok...we've jacked this again...but I have to say something on this.

Many moons ago...when I could stay up past 8 pm...I would build a ride just as you describe in the old rollercoaster tycoon game and call it "sundowner" or something like that...weaving over, around, and through a WDI type Uluru...

Freaky.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Oh, you mean because people would love to go see an Australia section considering how many unique animals can be found there? How many of us have seen a live platypus? Probably very few since they are only found in Australian Zoos after the one at the Bronx Zoo died quite a while ago. How about a section on the Great Barrier Reef now that is bleached out? Sure, every zoos has wallabies, but fewer have kangaroos because they are hard to keep. Or a whole section on the vicious spiders and snakes that can kill you in Australia, which is most of them. And of course no one would have any interest in seeing a Disney ride themed on the Outback with Ayer's Rock (Uluru). Or even an aviary with all the amazing parrots indigenous to Australia. I mean, it's not like you could even replicate freaking Soarin and just focus on the Outback and have enough to do a huge ride. It wouldn't take the pressure off FoP at all. And neither would an actual log flume type ride. You know, not a cheap raft ride like Kali River Rapids which seems set up to provide the minimum entertainment with the maximum amount of soaking discomfort, but an actual flume ride based on the River Darling. Or maybe even a true guided boat ride equivalent to the Safari ride, where you go through the many Outback ecosystems or even the difference between the wet and dry season. I bet you could never build a lodge themed on the aboriginal culture overlooking the whole thing either.

No, there's definitely no way to do an absolutely outstanding Australia land keeping with the mission and theme of Animal Kingdom...

Ok, I wasn't really into the whole Australia thing until you brought up soaring, but now I reeeeaaaaaally want an Australian/NZ version of soaring. It'd be way better than soaring around the world even though I like that one.

I think AKL was a full day for me before pandora, and it could easily be a 2 day park if it wasn't so dang hot. I was only able to do morning and evening, not afternoon.

 

[Hoodie]

We always let the kids decide for our last day in the parks. This year they surprised us and both picked AK. Pandora *may* add a couple of extra hours (eventually, right now my kiddos have no interest) but for us it was a 2/3 day park. And that was riding the Safari 2-3 times and going on all the trails AND to the Affection Station. The shows themselves take up a decent amount of time. Pandora gets it closer to a full day, but it's still not quite there. Australia would be AMAZING.

DHS right now is less than half a day. We arrived late, did everything, ate a late-ish lunch and still ended up taking the boat to EPCOT because we were done before we had our 1:30 ADRs. Obviously that will change once the new lands open, but with the construction it is painfully obvious how tiny that park is. Depending on crowds, you can pretty much do everything there in 3 hours. It's a little sad.

 

[amberpi]

DAK and DHS seems to have pretty much identical attendance numbers pre-Avatar, with DAK consistently squeaking out a win. Now with Avatar opening, and DHS 1/2 open, I expect that to shift for this year and maybe even next year. I don't think TSL is going to be the same impact as Avatar. But when SWL opens, look out. DAK is headed to last. It'll be interesting to see if DHS overtakes EPCOT in the five years after SWL opens.

I wonder if Disney really, REALLY understands how rabid SW fans are, the weekends always seem to be a madhouse of insanity and that keeps lots of fans away, and you can meet those guys at conventions. I think that opening with only 2 rides if going to honestly lead to constant capacity issues like we saw the first couple of days with Pandora, but for a much longer time. I know HP fans, and they're pretty rabid, but I think SW is going to be a whole other thing.

FWIW, I can be in and out of DHS in 3 hours easily - and that includes having cocktails. I can't wait to see this become something amazing, but I'm much interested in what's going to happen at Epcot.

 

[amberpi]

And that is the "bad IP" argument. Avatar is the weakest IP you'll find from the one thing that Disney monitors the most: product placement.

I thought the same thing - but sold out banshees seem to be working (or not, since they aren't keeping up the stock). I'm pretty shocked about the popularity there, but I don't have children, so....

 

[jknezek]

I wonder if Disney really, REALLY understands how rabid SW fans are, the weekends always seem to be a madhouse of insanity and that keeps lots of fans away, and you can meet those guys at conventions. I think that opening with only 2 rides if going to honestly lead to constant capacity issues like we saw the first couple of days with Pandora, but for a much longer time. I know HP fans, and they're pretty rabid, but I think SW is going to be a whole other thing.

I think they do. I just think they've stumbled upon a method they really like. 2 attractions, one a D/E and one a B/C type, food service, a gift shop and theming. I think this is going to be a standard "expansion package" as far as the near future goes. They are leaving expansion pads for more, but for some reason they have hit upon this formula as a good use of resources. In some ways I get it. They don't want DHS to be Star Wars Park, although I'd argue it's pretty darn close right now. It's just supposed to be a portion of what is there. So while they get it is going to be insanely popular, adding a third attraction or more right now is not the balance they want to create.

Personally I expect if they do build a Star Wars hotel, it will be in conjunction with adding a third attraction, but that they need to work on the rest of the park first to make sure it isn't everyone into SWL at the same time.

 

[amberpi]

I think they do. I just think they've stumbled upon a method they really like. 2 attractions, one a D/E and one a B/C type, food service, a gift shop and theming. I think this is going to be a standard "expansion package" as far as the near future goes. They are leaving expansion pads for more, but for some reason they have hit upon this formula as a good use of resources. In some ways I get it. They don't want DHS to be Star Wars Park, although I'd argue it's pretty darn close right now. It's just supposed to be a portion of what is there. So while they get it is going to be insanely popular, adding a third attraction or more right now is not the balance they want to create.

Personally I expect if they do build a Star Wars hotel, it will be in conjunction with adding a third attraction, but that they need to work on the rest of the park first to make sure it isn't everyone into SWL at the same time.

That does seem to be the formula. And of course, TSL is a great counter-balance for families with small kids, to hopefully spread crowds. But man, even small kids adore SW, so I just see it being hardcore insanity for a long time. It's Disney, they've got the numbers. I just think that the huge SW appeal may blow those.

That hotel? OMG - take my $1200 or whatever they're saying may be the nightly rate, but BUILD IT!