Powered wheelchair use restrictions

[SteveMouse]

I can appreciate Disney’s concern about operating a guest’s electronic equipment. It’s one thing if it is common- like an throttle on an ECV or simple joystick controller on a power wheelchair. As things get more customized, they get a bit more complicated to operate. What’s second nature to those of us that live with it may not occur to people that don’t work with our specific technology daily. Not to mention that almost all manual chairs can be pushed without occupying the seat. While powerchairs should have a way of disengaging the motor, the switch is not always easily located. I also thing it’s easier to push an ECV in neutral that it is a wheelchair.

 

[RaySharpton]

I was just discussing this with family members, because we are all kind of shocked. Even though I'm not in a chair yet, that time is coming, and so I am naturally more interested in issues like this.

One of the things we have noticed over the few years at WDW is what happens in response the the CM question: "Can you transfer?"

If I say "No, I can't transfer", then my device and I are not separated at rides where there is a roll-in/roll-on ability.

If I say "Yes, I can transfer", then my device is taken away from me. At some rides (Pirates, for example) I am offered an attraction wheelchair. At other rides, typically, I am allowed to get reasonably close to the ride vehicle before a CM moves my device away from the loading point.

I am beginning to believe that WDW views almost everyone as able to transfer unless otherwise informed, and that this is most likely driven by the large number of folks who use a mobility device only at WDW. I'm not saying that this is *right* or *fair* - just that as time passes, and it increasingly becomes apparent how many people have to rent ECVs just to get around at WDW... A lot of folks on the ground in the Parks are presuming that (unless it's really visually apparent) you *can* transfer (and they can get that device out of the way).

Our family has noticed that there is a definite difference in how your device is managed at WDW if you are asked that question "Can you transfer" (or sadly, all too often "Can *she* transfer?" like I'm not really a sentient human) depending on how you answer.

Thank you, mamabunny. Excellent post!

I plan on driving down in September to Daytona Beach, Fl and Orlando, Fl for the first time in many years since not owning my own car.

I wanted to visit NASA, WDW, Universal Studios, Sea World among other things.

I am staying offsite.

I thought that I might see what it would be like to maybe visit WDW using The Westgate Towers Resort bus transport to WDW and using my rental car. I wanted to see how I felt about using my wheelchair using their bus transport and my rental car.

I wanted to visit Universal Studios Orlando for the first time in decades, but after reading their Disability Guidemap not allowing electric wheelchairs in many of the queues to their attractions, I am wondering if it would be worth going there.

I also wonder if WDW will start making the same restrictive rules that Universal Studios Orlando is imposing.

I'll take notes and photos on my travels.

At least I know that my wheelchair will be a lot easier to put in and to take out of a car trunk than taking apart and loading my old mobility scooter like a long time ago.

Since I go solo, I don't have anyone to help me if I might have difficulties.

I don't want to get to the point before I started a mobility scooter and just using my cane where I would weigh my options of whether I could make it back to my resort.

The mobility scooter ended that discussion for me back then.

Now, as I get older, it has turned into whether I can physically lift my wheelchair several times a day.

That is why I love WDW.

Everything was accessible including transportation.

I am looking forward to this new adventure and I hope that I can enjoy myself and not worry about anything.

.

 

[SteveMouse]

I do not understand the rationale for this policy. Her wheelchair is standard size, has the mobility to turn 360 degrees without moving, and is accepted by the airlines who have the strictest rules governing power chairs. So just what is the issue? This is so odd as our experience over many years of Disney trips that they are very accommodating to disability challenges.

Disability issues with air travel are addressed by the Air Carrier Access Act, not the Americans with Disabilities Act. Two entirely different sets of regulations.

I am concerned about this change of policy. I really don’t need to do extra transfers (potentially two more per ride- one on entrance and another on exit). The reason that “safety” is mentioned is that it is a buzzword that triggers exceptions to the ADA. e.g.,, for safety reasons (risk of injury to the disabled or others), we are not offering an accommodation.

 

[JimC]

Disability issues with air travel are addressed by the Air Carrier Access Act, not the Americans with Disabilities Act. Two entirely different sets of regulations.

I am concerned about this change of policy. I really don’t need to do extra transfers (potentially two more per ride- one on entrance and another on exit). The reason that “safety” is mentioned is that it is a buzzword that triggers exceptions to the ADA. e.g.,, for safety reasons (risk of injury to the disabled or others), we are not offering an accommodation.

I agree with the concern. Even further then the issue of transfers, it removes a great deal of independence. If someone is using a powered device, there is likely a reason for it -- they can not operate a manual device or can do so only in limited conditions/durations. So at Pirates, my wife now can go on only if she has someone with her to push her in their wheelchair, or push her powered chair in manual mode through the queue.

Just to be clear, I am not advocating a legal position on what they are doing. Nor am I trying to get into specific language governing rights of individuals with disabilities in different laws. I know enough to know that it is complicated once you go there. This may end up being a legal issue, but for here I am hoping to gain better understanding, raise awareness and possibly create pressure for Disney to reverse position.

My issue, probably poorly stated -- what is the legitimate safety concern of using a powered wheelchair that is different from a manual wheelchair? The only differences between the two I can think of are the battery and possibly the speed it can travel. As to the battery, I used the airline example as if this is truly a legitimate safety concern then the airlines would be the logical group to say no -- and they have not.

And thus far, we have taken two formal routes to raise this issue with Disney -- through DVC and Disney Disabilities. We got a verbal it is for safety reasons from DVC and no response from Disney Disabilities. With DVC we pressed for specifics of the safety reasons in writing. It is insufficient to use code words without providing the underlying rationale and facts to support it. With Disney Disabilities, I suspect they are probably running it to their inhouse legal team before responding.

 

[RaySharpton]

I agree with the concern. Even further then the issue of transfers, it removes a great deal of independence. If someone is using a powered device, there is likely a reason for it -- they can not operate a manual device or can do so only in limited conditions/durations. So at Pirates, my wife now can go on only if she has someone with her to push her in their wheelchair, or push her powered chair in manual mode through the queue.

Just to be clear, I am not advocating a legal position on what they are doing. Nor am I trying to get into specific language governing rights of individuals with disabilities in different laws. I know enough to know that it is complicated once you go there. This may end up being a legal issue, but for here I am hoping to gain better understanding, raise awareness and possibly create pressure for Disney to reverse position.

My issue, probably poorly stated -- what is the legitimate safety concern of using a powered wheelchair that is different from a manual wheelchair? The only differences between the two I can think of are the battery and possibly the speed it can travel. As to the battery, I used the airline example as if this is truly a legitimate safety concern then the airlines would be the logical group to say no -- and they have not.

And thus far, we have taken two formal routes to raise this issue with Disney -- through DVC and Disney Disabilities. We got a verbal it is for safety reasons from DVC and no response from Disney Disabilities. With DVC we pressed for specifics of the safety reasons in writing. It is insufficient to use code words without providing the underlying rationale and facts to support it. With Disney Disabilities, I suspect they are probably running it to their in-house legal team before responding.

Thank you, Jim, for your thoughts. I agree.

 

[mamabunny]

I agree with the concern. Even further then the issue of transfers, it removes a great deal of independence. If someone is using a powered device, there is likely a reason for it -- they can not operate a manual device or can do so only in limited conditions/durations. So at Pirates, my wife now can go on only if she has someone with her to push her in their wheelchair, or push her powered chair in manual mode through the queue.
...

My issue, probably poorly stated -- what is the legitimate safety concern of using a powered wheelchair that is different from a manual wheelchair? The only differences between the two I can think of are the battery and possibly the speed it can travel. As to the battery, I used the airline example as if this is truly a legitimate safety concern then the airlines would be the logical group to say no -- and they have not.

And thus far, we have taken two formal routes to raise this issue with Disney -- through DVC and Disney Disabilities. We got a verbal it is for safety reasons from DVC and no response from Disney Disabilities. With DVC we pressed for specifics of the safety reasons in writing. It is insufficient to use code words without providing the underlying rationale and facts to support it. With Disney Disabilities, I suspect they are probably running it to their inhouse legal team before responding.

I have been pondering this issue, because it really bugs me - no, it worries me. A *lot*.

The only really functional difference between a manual chair and a powered chair is... the power. It seems like that shouldn't really matter, but stick with me for a minute.

A couple of years ago, we noticed that suddenly, bus drivers were always standing up on the step whenever an ECV or power chair was loaded. Since I'm curious, I asked a bus driver one night why all the drivers were hopping up on the steps now whenever anyone drove a personal mobility device up the ramp, and on to the bus. His answer? They were being trained that way now. Too many drivers had been run over by folks who were unable to control the throttle coming up the ramp. Ironically enough, on our last few trips, I noticed that some of the drivers now actually walk backwards towards the front of the bus as they try to "guide" you into your parking spot, so clearly the steps aren't the only "safe" place for them, but - and here's where it all ties together...

...What if this is a response to a situation where people have (inadvertently) knocked the throttle of a powered device during transfer to the ride vehicle, leading to a dangerous situation with a potentially out of control device? (And yes, I understand that it would only be "out of control" for a moment, but if it "bucked" and hit another Guest or CM, a heavy power chair could do real injury)

It's the only thing that makes any sense to me. Otherwise it just seems like Disney has decided that everyone who shows up in a motorized personal mobility device *can* transfer until proven otherwise, and we know that isn't the case.

Here, in this space, we (corporately, as a group) recommend that folks *not* rent a powered chair for WDW unless they use one in their daily life at home. WDW is not the place to learn how to drive a powered chair, and not only are ECV rentals less expensive overall, but the ECV in general has a much shorter learning curve, and most of them are equipped with a throttle that will stop further powered motion if you take your hand(s) off the throttle. Newer models are quite comfortable as well. Additionally, historically Orlando supply houses wouldn't typically rent a powered chair to someone who didn't have one at home. If you tried to lie, and say you had one, the first question they would ask is "What model is it?" so that they rented you the most similar type of chair.

Sadly, there are still folks who will rent a powered chair, when what they should be using is an ECV. Although I don't know for sure, I have always presumed that those people either believe that the powered chair will be more comfortable - or it will result in some sort of preferential treatment (that no longer exists with the DAS system). And a certain percentage of those folks are downright dangerous, because they think a power chair works just like an ECV does. And it doesn't.

There are very few other reasons I can think of that would invoke the "safety" word, other than someone blazed through WDW in a rental power chair, and left a trail of destruction and injured CMs and/or Guests in their wake. I could certainly see WDW making some changes after a scenario like that, but I feel like that would have been discussed around here by now!

A Guest who insisted that their device stay with them in the ride room - but maybe the brakes didn't hold? That would also be a safety issue, and a big rolling one at that! But forcing every device into manual mode doesn't line up with that theory.

A Guest who couldn't make the transfer to their place between 2 of the "Banshees"? That might be/have been a problem, but that is resolved by asking the Guest to wait for an end spot on the next ride so they can pull up next to the Banshee. It shouldn't require manual mode.

The only other thing that seems even remotely possible is... is it possible that some of the cheap knock-off powered chairs (that have flooded Amazon in the last couple of years) maybe emit some kind of electrical interference due to unshielded electronics? I don't know enough about how that ride operates to know if that kind of interference would cause an issue for that type of ride and its controls. Or, maybe it isn't the controls, but the video system - the actual flight video - that it interferes with?

It's all speculation

Were I in your shoes, I would *call* Disability Services at WDW, and just indicate that you are following up because you haven't gotten a response yet. I understand why you reached out to DVC, but I really do think that any "policy" related answer will most likely, ultimately, come out of Disability Services.

I hope you get a real answer. And for all of us, I hope it makes sense!

 

[RaySharpton]

I have been pondering this issue, because it really bugs me - no, it worries me. A *lot*.

The only really functional difference between a manual chair and a powered chair is... the power. It seems like that shouldn't really matter, but stick with me for a minute.

A couple of years ago, we noticed that suddenly, bus drivers were always standing up on the step whenever an ECV or power chair was loaded. Since I'm curious, I asked a bus driver one night why all the drivers were hopping up on the steps now whenever anyone drove a personal mobility device up the ramp, and on to the bus. His answer? They were being trained that way now. Too many drivers had been run over by folks who were unable to control the throttle coming up the ramp. Ironically enough, on our last few trips, I noticed that some of the drivers now actually walk backwards towards the front of the bus as they try to "guide" you into your parking spot, so clearly the steps aren't the only "safe" place for them, but - and here's where it all ties together...

...What if this is a response to a situation where people have (inadvertently) knocked the throttle of a powered device during transfer to the ride vehicle, leading to a dangerous situation with a potentially out of control device? (And yes, I understand that it would only be "out of control" for a moment, but if it "bucked" and hit another Guest or CM, a heavy power chair could do real injury)

It's the only thing that makes any sense to me. Otherwise it just seems like Disney has decided that everyone who shows up in a motorized personal mobility device *can* transfer until proven otherwise, and we know that isn't the case.

Here, in this space, we (corporately, as a group) recommend that folks *not* rent a powered chair for WDW unless they use one in their daily life at home. WDW is not the place to learn how to drive a powered chair, and not only are ECV rentals less expensive overall, but the ECV in general has a much shorter learning curve, and most of them are equipped with a throttle that will stop further powered motion if you take your hand(s) off the throttle. Newer models are quite comfortable as well. Additionally, historically Orlando supply houses wouldn't typically rent a powered chair to someone who didn't have one at home. If you tried to lie, and say you had one, the first question they would ask is "What model is it?" so that they rented you the most similar type of chair.

Sadly, there are still folks who will rent a powered chair, when what they should be using is an ECV. Although I don't know for sure, I have always presumed that those people either believe that the powered chair will be more comfortable - or it will result in some sort of preferential treatment (that no longer exists with the DAS system). And a certain percentage of those folks are downright dangerous, because they think a power chair works just like an ECV does. And it doesn't.

There are very few other reasons I can think of that would invoke the "safety" word, other than someone blazed through WDW in a rental power chair, and left a trail of destruction and injured CMs and/or Guests in their wake. I could certainly see WDW making some changes after a scenario like that, but I feel like that would have been discussed around here by now!

A Guest who insisted that their device stay with them in the ride room - but maybe the brakes didn't hold? That would also be a safety issue, and a big rolling one at that! But forcing every device into manual mode doesn't line up with that theory.

A Guest who couldn't make the transfer to their place between 2 of the "Banshees"? That might be/have been a problem, but that is resolved by asking the Guest to wait for an end spot on the next ride so they can pull up next to the Banshee. It shouldn't require manual mode.

The only other thing that seems even remotely possible is... is it possible that some of the cheap knock-off powered chairs (that have flooded Amazon in the last couple of years) maybe emit some kind of electrical interference due to unshielded electronics? I don't know enough about how that ride operates to know if that kind of interference would cause an issue for that type of ride and its controls. Or, maybe it isn't the controls, but the video system - the actual flight video - that it interferes with?

It's all speculation

Were I in your shoes, I would *call* Disability Services at WDW, and just indicate that you are following up because you haven't gotten a response yet. I understand why you reached out to DVC, but I really do think that any "policy" related answer will most likely, ultimately, come out of Disability Services.

I hope you get a real answer. And for all of us, I hope it makes sense!

Well said, mamabunny.

 

[Jecca]

Uh oh, this makes me nervous because I’ve been thinking about getting those power-assist wheels for my manual chair. I figured they would be a perfect solution for someone who can generally get around fine in a manual, but could use some support for hills and long distances like at WDW. Transferring to a Disney wheelchair would not be an option for me. Are they easy to switch into manual mode so it’s not an issue in queues?

 

[JimC]

My wife’s chair (see post 1) is easy to put in manual or free wheel mode - the hub on each wheel rotates and locks into drive or free wheel mode - about a half turn and easy to do while seated.

The chair is 48 pounds fully assembled. The heaviest component is 18 pounds.

This device is over engineered. The controller monitors and immediately stops the chair of it senses a problem. The joystick is easy to use and automatically stops if you let go. Chair can go into an elevator and turn around in its own space. There are two settings for balancing speed and battery life. My wife uses the eco setting which limits speed to a nice waking pace. It is easy for a cast member to push in free wheel mode and has the original chair’s manual brakes so no issue there

 

[kaytieeldr]

You say, "No, I can't transfer." Nobody can make you be able to.

 

[SteveMouse]

I can see issues about transferring between “whats”. e.g, transferring from my personal wheelchair seat to a Disney manual chair or from my personal chair to a ride vehicle seat. Front transfer or side transfer? Is a transfer board available?

I don’t know if Disney has considered all the impacts.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

I can see issues about transferring between “whats”. e.g, transferring from my personal wheelchair seat to a Disney manual chair or from my personal chair to a ride vehicle seat. Front transfer or side transfer? Is a transfer board available?

I don’t know if Disney has considered all the impacts.

if I remember correctly some of the change to park chair has to do with getting your device to you at end of ride. if they cant get it to you as you load and unload at different areas that can not be changed and that is not new

 

[SteveMouse]

if I remember correctly some of the change to park chair has to do with getting your device to you at end of ride. if they cant get it to you as you load and unload at different areas that can not be changed and that is not new

That would affect PoC, but not FoP, which was specifically mentioned by a PP. Other than PoC, is there a ride where one cannot board and exit at the same location if you have to transfer to a ride vehicle? TSMM would accommodate a chair. BTMR has a work-around.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

That would affect PoC, but not FoP, which was specifically mentioned by a PP. Other than PoC, is there a ride where one cannot board and exit at the same location if you have to transfer to a ride vehicle? TSMM would accommodate a chair. BTMR has a work-around.

I have never ridden FoP but from what I have read there is something about moving chair which could make that a problem not just to another room/building. no real knowledge just thinking out loud

 

[JimC]

There is nothing inherently limiting about Pirates or FoP. We have taken her wheelchair into the load zones of each without incident nor hassle multiple times.

The issue is not Disney’s challenge in moving a wheelchair from the load zone to the unload zone or how queues and load zones are designed.

The issue is the policy change Disney implemented where they have decided to treat a powered wheelchair differently then a manual wheelchair.

 

[gap2368]

I am sure there is a resign why they do not let them in we may not know it but I just can not see Disney going ok we are not going to let power chair or this or that in line without a resign

 

[JimC]

Well, Disney disabilities still has not responded to us. DVC left a message to call them tomorrow as they have more information for us.

Up to now they have claimed it is a safety issue without providing any supporting rationale

 

[Jecca]

Well, Disney disabilities still has not responded to us. DVC left a message to call them tomorrow as they have more information for us.

Up to now they have claimed it is a safety issue without providing any supporting rationale

Did you get any more info today?

 

[JimC]

Sorry. Called today and found that he is off until Saturday. So will try again on Saturday.

 

[JimC]

Quick update - I won’t be able to call them back until Wednesday. This weekend went a bit sideways and I am out of town with clients. Also my wife got an email “response” from Disney Disabilities saying they could not respond to her concern in writing. But would talk with her about her concerns. And she is visiting the grandchildren this week so no calls till she returns.