Recreational marijuana legal here in Canada as of tomorrow

New Canadian recreational use laws

  • Like

    Votes: 71 55.9%
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    Votes: 31 24.4%
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    Votes: 16 12.6%
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    127
I think they do do a pretty good job but I still was blowing/sneezing out black icky stuff and my body hated me when I came back which is normal when I come back from a place where my allergens were triggered--sorry if that was TMI lol.

I think how it affects one is going to differ from person to person. My allergies make it so I'm affected completely differently than my husband. Did he like smelling cigarette smoke? Nope, neither did my mom but because neither one of them has allergies it didn't affect their sinuses like it did me.

But to that point I had a similar yet not the same severity of issues when I was in NYC last December. There I think the issue was overall pollution more or less from mass transit especially the subway.

I'm glad though that you didn't find much issues the last time you went. I'm not sure if I can say I've ever had a migraine (if I did it had to have been minor for me not to remember it) but knowing people who have had them it's no joke. Typically I get sinus headaches that last for weeks but they aren't the same as migraines.

I've walked into a casino in downtown Detroit one time and one time only because of the smoke issue. We were actually parking at the casino then walking through it to get to a nearby theater for a show we were seeing. We planned to have dinner at the casino afterwards. In the under ten minutes I was inside I managed to wind up with a migraine. My husband took one look at me as we were walking back outside and wanted to head back home immediately because I apparently looked so bad. We ended up seeing the performance and he went back for the car and picked me up outside the theater. Miserable night, just miserable.

I've suffered migraines since I was very young and cigarette smoke has always been a trigger that can nudge me over the edge. For that reason I'm always paying attention and try to avoid smoking wherever possible. The smoke level in the casino here was very thick, like a blue haze hanging everywhere. I've heard it's like that in downtown LV so I avoid it. There were several casinos on the strip where I saw people smoking, yet smelled absolutely no smoke whatsoever. I walked out of Treasure Island, Flamingo, Harrah's because I could smell it after walking in 15-20 feet or so and knew I was liable to get in trouble quickly.
 
First of all, you quoted me yet one of my statements is incorrectly attributed to another poster. That's not okay. They shouldn't be involved with what I said.

Fair. I have no idea how that happened and apologize.

You seriously think I questioned your dismissive attitude without knowing what Reefer Madness refers to? It's not like there's a secret handshake necessary to be let in on the top secret info.

Again, fair. I don't know how the heck the quotes got crossed. I also don't understand your hostility. I'm not being dismissive of anyone. I used the reefer madness example in argument of people being shot in back alleys over marijuana as this seems more like hyperbole than reality.

I also said it when someone mentioned a study that also sounded like hyperbole. I was wrong and stated such.

But it wasn't you who said it so my mistake.

A 52% statistic regarding incarcerations "being for marijuana" is meaningless to someone who knows A) how the statistics game is played and B) knows that the statement in and of itself is deceptive.

So contest me.

Once again, I'll stand on what I said and what I've seen -- corrections systems are far too strained to PER YOUR EXACT WORDS, "throwing someone in a cage for smoking pot". There's always another element (or five) to the crimes that results in incarceration. People ARE NOT being "thrown in cages" SIMPLY for smoking pot.

Stats say otherwise. My personal experience also says otherwise.

It's funny you say I have a dismissive attitude but then proceed to be nothing but dismissive yourself. Disagreeing with your opinion does not equate dismissive.
 
I can't speak for Canadian laws as I'm an American, but for me, the biggest reason I advocate for legalization are the draconian laws here surrounding marijuana.

People being locked up for extensive amounts of time for non-violent marijuana related crimes have ruined far more lives than the drug has itself.

I know there are inherent dangers of marijuana, especially when talking about underage users and driving. Same could be said for caffeine, but that's another topic. But those dangers are nothing in comparison to what can happen in certain states if you are found with even a minor amount of marijuana.

The most dangerous part about pot is being caught with it. There's my issue. I'm more for decriminalization. Throwing someone in a cage for smoking pot does nothing to help that person, costs the tax payers billions, and could potentially ruin the life of said individual.

Funny part, I haven't used marijuana regularly in years. Yeah I'll hit a joint if I'm at a party or concert, but for the most part I don't really enjoy it anymore.
AFAIK, simple possession has actually been decriminalized here for a while but it was still illegal and a related conviction could carry a penalty of up to $1,000 fine and/or up to a year in jail. I've no idea how often those penalties were actually imposed - my guess would be that actual jail time for this offence alone would be very rare. The bigger issue was having a conviction on your record, which could possibly impact things like jobs and security clearances and absolutely rendered one inadmissible to the US. As of now, it's been announced that anyone with a record for simple possession can apply for an automatic pardon and have it expunged. Feds are apparently working on fast-tracking a quick, easy, low-cost process for this.

You seem fond of dismissing many other opinions as sounding like "something out of reefer madness". Your idea that people are routinely being "thrown in cages" today simply for smoking pot is laughable. In over ten years at my job I have yet to see anyone incarcerated simply for smoking pot. The simple reality of today is courts do not have a realistic option to incarcerate for something as mundane as smoking pot -- the resources to do so are simply not there. Violent felons are being returned to the streets because our corrections systems are so strained.
::yes:: I've really got no knowledge or authority to say so, but I suspect you are 100% correct, both in the US and Canada.
 
Fair. I have no idea how that happened and apologize.



Again, fair. I don't know how the heck the quotes got crossed. I also don't understand your hostility. I'm not being dismissive of anyone. I used the reefer madness example in argument of people being shot in back alleys over marijuana as this seems more like hyperbole than reality.

I also said it when someone mentioned a study that also sounded like hyperbole. I was wrong and stated such.

But it wasn't you who said it so my mistake.



So contest me.



Stats say otherwise. My personal experience also says otherwise.

It's funny you say I have a dismissive attitude but then proceed to be nothing but dismissive yourself. Disagreeing with your opinion does not equate dismissive.

52% of incarcerations "being for marijuana" is absurd on its face, period. That gambit might work at shutting up someone more timid or unaware of how the legal system works, but not for someone who is aware of reality in the American justice system today.

Once again YOUR WORDS stated that people are being thrown in cages for simply smoking marijuana. That is patently untrue. The simple truth is your 52% DOES NOT represent 52% of those incarcerated being jailed simply for smoking pot. Marijuana offenses may be included in their convictions, but they are simply not the whole story and to suggest otherwise is disingenuous. I'll also suggest that their marijuana offenses are not simply smoking pot, rather more likely include possession, most often for a significant amount, quite often an amount linked with manufacture and distribution -- incidentally quite often charges that go hand in hand with firearms possession and/or felonious assault, frequently involving us of or possession of firearms.
 


AFAIK, simple possession has actually been decriminalized here for a while but it was still illegal and a related conviction could carry a penalty of up to $1,000 fine and/or up to a year in jail. I've no idea how often those penalties were actually imposed - my guess would be that actual jail time for this offence alone would be very rare. The bigger issue was having a conviction on your record, which could possibly impact things like jobs and security clearances and absolutely rendered one inadmissible to the US. As of now, it's been announced that anyone with a record for simple possession can apply for an automatic pardon and have it expunged. Feds are apparently working on fast-tracking a quick, easy, low-cost process for this.

I will concede that there are far less convictions for minor possession charges than say 5 years ago and it is great that it can be expunged from one's record. That's progress IMO.
 
Personally, I'd likely never do it. I have hereditary tendencies toward schizophrenia and addiction, so it's better I just stay away.

But as for it being legal, yeah, sure. Alcohol is legal, right? Tobacco is legal, right? What's the difference? Heck, alcohol and tobacco kill more people than weed.
 
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Once again YOUR WORDS stated that people are being thrown in cages for simply smoking marijuana.

Well, to be fair, the charge would be possession not smoking so MY WORDS were incorrect. They are being thrown in cages for simply possessing marijuana would be more accurate.

I can only cite anecdotal evidence because as you pointed out, the stats don't show everything.

That is patently untrue. The simple truth is your 52% DOES NOT represent 52% of those incarcerated being jailed simply for smoking pot.

But that's not what I said.

What I said was 52% of the peopled jailed for drug charges were so for marijuana.

That is a fact. Marijuana charges represent 52% of people incarcerated for drug related charges. Drug related charges make up 46% of ALL people incarcerated.

That is statistical facts.
The why's are debatable for sure. But you can't change statistics.

FACT: 2.3 million people incarcerated in the US
FACT: 46% of those in prison are there for drug related charges. that's over 1 million people.
FACT: 52% of those 1 million people, or to use nice round numbers 520k people, are there for marijuana charges.

I am aware of WHY marijuana charges are included in their convictions. It's so prosecutors have a bargaining chip for pleas and can still get some sort of conviction.

I'll also suggest that their marijuana offenses are not simply smoking pot, rather more likely include possession,

Well yes, because if you are smoking pot you kind of have to possess it.

most often for a significant amount, quite often an amount linked with manufacture and distribution

I would cite statistics that suggest otherwise, but I won't bother as those don't matter.

-- incidentally quite often charges that go hand in hand with firearms possession and/or felonious assault, frequently involving us of or possession of firearms.

Yup. Would you like to discuss why this is? If you have someone on a felony assault or firearm charge, why would you care about the marijuana? Plea bargains and public pretenders, that's why.

You are right, the 520k people in jail for marijuana charges are not solely there for possession. But with decriminalization that's potentially 520k people who will have lesser charges or quite possibly no charges at all. To me that is significant.

BTW, not that it matters, but I was incarcerated for 3 months for nothing more than smoking pot at a public park when I was 19. I made the stupid decision to try and fight the charges as I was not actually in the possession of the weed when the cops got there. Oops. 3 months. But you know, that never happens so....
 


I would like to steer the conversation as I actually would like to know your view on legalization.
 
But as for it being legal, yeah, sure. Alcohol is legal, right? Tobacco is legal, right? What's the difference? Heck, alcohol and tobacco kill more people than weed.

Just playing devil's advocate, alcohol and tobacco have a very minor chance of turning users into psychotic messes compared to weed.

Not saying I don't support legalisation, just stirring the mix up a bit ;)
 
Alcohol causes liver cirrhosis. Tobacco causes lung cancer. Pick your poison, I guess.

Very true.

I pick none of them :teeth:

My brother vapes in place of smoking. Some experts say it's better. Many concede that there are limited risks. A few argue that it's just as bad.

His body. Still rather selfish. If he kills himself on the stuff, it's his family that will be left behind to grieve.
 
Just playing devil's advocate, alcohol and tobacco have a very minor chance of turning users into psychotic messes compared to weed.

I don't know about that. Tobacco, yeah you are right.

But alcohol psychosis is well documented. Alcohol does a lot of scary stuff to the brain.

Marijuana psychosis just hasn't been researched enough (as you stated in an earlier post) to really say for sure.
 
I don't know about that. Tobacco, yeah you are right.

But alcohol psychosis is well documented. Alcohol does a lot of scary stuff to the brain.

Marijuana psychosis just hasn't been researched enough (as you stated in an earlier post) to really say for sure.

On the contrary, the link between marijuana usage and psychosis is well established.

But you are right about alcohol and psychotic episodes and/or illnesses. Vividly I can remember a relative, having hit the bottle AGAIN, being helped up our stairs by my dad rambling on about how the soft toys were speaking to him. Very sad.
 
Well, to be fair, the charge would be possession not smoking so MY WORDS were incorrect. They are being thrown in cages for simply possessing marijuana would be more accurate.

I can only cite anecdotal evidence because as you pointed out, the stats don't show everything.



But that's not what I said.

What I said was 52% of the peopled jailed for drug charges were so for marijuana.

That is a fact. Marijuana charges represent 52% of people incarcerated for drug related charges. Drug related charges make up 46% of ALL people incarcerated.

That is statistical facts.
The why's are debatable for sure. But you can't change statistics.

FACT: 2.3 million people incarcerated in the US
FACT: 46% of those in prison are there for drug related charges. that's over 1 million people.
FACT: 52% of those 1 million people, or to use nice round numbers 520k people, are there for marijuana charges.

I am aware of WHY marijuana charges are included in their convictions. It's so prosecutors have a bargaining chip for pleas and can still get some sort of conviction.



Well yes, because if you are smoking pot you kind of have to possess it.



I would cite statistics that suggest otherwise, but I won't bother as those don't matter.



Yup. Would you like to discuss why this is? If you have someone on a felony assault or firearm charge, why would you care about the marijuana? Plea bargains and public pretenders, that's why.

You are right, the 520k people in jail for marijuana charges are not solely there for possession. But with decriminalization that's potentially 520k people who will have lesser charges or quite possibly no charges at all. To me that is significant.

BTW, not that it matters, but I was incarcerated for 3 months for nothing more than smoking pot at a public park when I was 19. I made the stupid decision to try and fight the charges as I was not actually in the possession of the weed when the cops got there. Oops. 3 months. But you know, that never happens so....

The bolding is mine. Interestingly you seem to be arguing against yourself here.

As far as your particular case I'm not willing to accept that you even understand the particulars of your charges and why it is that you were incarcerated. (Things like resisting and obstructing tend to affect a lot of outcomes/frequently go unmentioned in anecdotal retelling.) That's the normal mindset I see on a daily basis, and why courts receive certified copies of previous convictions as a routine part of business when habitual offenders are being charged as such.

As far as the horsetrading that goes on with plea bargains, what really makes you so convinced you need to sell me your statistics on what really happens when I see it five days a week? The fact is the way it works most charges get pushed down in severity during the negotiations, with one of the most frequent being drug offenses getting pushed down to misdemeanor levels to avoid enhanced sentencing on the larger felonies. The bureaucratic behemoth that is the reality of the day to day of what goes on in the criminal justice system is not what you see on TV, is not what you hear in the news, is not the anecdotal rant of someone who's gone through the system and doesn't want to accept the outcome/is unwilling to face up to their own actions. It is what is happening in courtrooms across this country every day, no matter what kind of picture Google paints. I know the truth is you need the full record to know the whole picture, so statistics is a waste of time on me.

I literally spent a good deal of my week dealing with the case of a mother who was pulled over for speeding and was ultimately convicted of driving while super drunk(legal definition) with some of her young children in the car. Her children have been in foster care for 3 years now while endless efforts have been spent trying to get mom's substance abuse issues addressed, along with many other barriers to being able to return her children to her care. Mom has taken two drug screens during the entire pendency of the case -- only because she actually bothered to show up to court for 2 review hearings, insisted she doesn't use anything/doesn't have a drinking problem and doesn't need to screen. The court ordered her to provide a drop on the spot. Surprise, surprise, both showed low levels of marijuana. She insists she's never used, must have been a contact high from being around others smoking -- of course they have medical marijuana cards since recreational use is not legal here. She denies she was even drunk when she was pulled over, claims they told her she wasn't drunk when they ran her test at the side of the road. She had a former stepfather who hasn't seen her in 15 years come in and testify that she's a great mom(he's only seen her kids on FB), doesn't drink and doesn't use illegal drugs. They both insist she wasn't actually convicted of DWI -- despite certified convictions being received stating otherwise.
 
52% of which were for marijuana (https://www.aclu.org/gallery/marijuana-arrests-numbers). And we are not talking drug kingpins either.

IMG_20181017_143716.jpg

In 2017, marijuana convictions represented 14% of overall drug convictions. Simple possession of marijuana accounted for only 92/19,750 drug sentences delivered... Less than .5%. You will also notice that the vast majority of all drug convictions are for drug trafficking, and that possession convictions for any drug are very low.

As for those actually in Federal prisons for drug offenses (since not everyone convicted actually serves jail time), here's some data from 2012.

IMG_20181017_143357.jpg

As you can see, 12.4% of those in prison for drug charges were there for marijuana. Also from 2012:
IMG_20181017_143440.jpg
Here, you can see that in 2012, 52% of prisoners were serving time for drugs. 99.5% of those were serving time for trafficking, and only .5% for simple possession.

The fact is convictions and subsequent jail sentences are extremely low for simple marijuana possession, and even marijuana convictions as a whole are no where near 50% of all drug convictions.
 
Just playing devil's advocate, alcohol and tobacco have a very minor chance of turning users into psychotic messes compared to weed.

Not saying I don't support legalisation, just stirring the mix up a bit ;)

I have a family hx of schizophrenia so this is a concern of mine for my kids. I know very little about this, but CBD is in the news a lot lately and I wonder if removing the THC component carries with it the same risk. Now that CBD is being used clinically I would think the data would show one way or the other.
 
One thing I’m wondering though is that I’ve heard a lot over the past while about border-crossing. There have been many media reports about US officials being able to deny entry to Canadians who admit to smoking pot and that individuals who admit to being employed in the (now legal) industry may not be eligible for entry into the US at all. Do any American DIS’ers have any insight into this? :confused:

I can envision a really big fence.......! :rotfl:
 
The bolding is mine. Interestingly you seem to be arguing against yourself here.

How? Because in order to smoke pot you have to possess it? I missed something.

As far as your particular case I'm not willing to accept that you even understand the particulars of your charges and why it is that you were incarcerated. (Things like resisting and obstructing tend to affect a lot of outcomes/frequently go unmentioned in anecdotal retelling.) That's the normal mindset I see on a daily basis, and why courts receive certified copies of previous convictions as a routine part of business when habitual offenders are being charged as such.

I didn't resist or obstruct (destroy evidence). I did have priors, but I was not on probation. All of my priors were misdemeanors and stemmed from the same arrest. I got drunk when I was 18 and stole from Target. I ended up with a trespassing charge, petty theft, and under age drinking.

As far as the horsetrading that goes on with plea bargains, what really makes you so convinced you need to sell me your statistics on what really happens when I see it five days a week?

I don't know you or what you claim you see 5 days a week. Obviously you are trying to convince me you either are a cop or work in the court system some way. But this isn't just me and you chatting. I'm not trying to sell you on anything. You can tell me your the Queen of England.

What I posted are statistics. You claim you know more than me, which you very well may. But I don't know you. So I use stats to back my arguments. I'm not really trying to convince you of anything and honestly this has gone so far off track, I'd like to get back to topic.

The bureaucratic behemoth that is the reality of the day to day of what goes on in the criminal justice system is not what you see on TV, is not what you hear in the news,

I'm aware of that. My aunt is a judge who worked in the public defenders office for 20 years. I married into a family of lawyers. I know that has little to do with me and doesn't make me an attorney, but I'm not completely oblivious to how the system works.

is not the anecdotal rant of someone who's gone through the system and doesn't want to accept the outcome/is unwilling to face up to their own actions.

First, don't try to pin me as someone you know. I don't appreciate it.

I don't blame anyone for what happened to me. I take full responsibility. I know what I did was illegal. I was arrested for smoking pot in a park. I didn't resist. I didn't destroy evidence or obstruct. I thought because the pot was all gone I could beat it. I plead not guilty against my lawyers recommendations because I was a dumb 19 year old know it all. Had I plead no contest I'd likely have gotten probation. But no, I wanted to beat the system. Dumb.
I was charged with possession, and convicted. I received a sentence of 6 months due to priors (non drug BTW, misdemeanor trespassing, petty theft, and underage drinking) which I served 3 months of with a year probation. I make no excuses so climb off you high horse ok.
I used my case as an example because YES PEOPLE DO GET ARRESTED FOR SMOKING (POSSESSION SINCE SEMANTICS ARE IMPORTANT) AND YES THEY ARE JAILED.

It is what is happening in courtrooms across this country every day, no matter what kind of picture Google paints. I know the truth is you need the full record to know the whole picture, so statistics is a waste of time on me.

Okay. But this is a public forum and others will read this. So I add in the stats and let them make their own decisions.

I literally spent a good deal of my week dealing with ………...

And?
 

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