regular wheelchairs and people who look healthy?

[beattyfamily]

Originally posted by SueM in MN
I just meant to educate people and if I sounded a little upset or harsh, well I've been on the reciving end of comments and I was up last night with storms in our area, so I did not get a good night of sleep.
I can explain a little more about the buses.
Most (but not all of the buses are equipped to transport wheelchairs. Sometimes a bus that does have a lift or ramp has problems (like the lift doesn't work or the tiedown belts for the wheelchair are missing. Each bus can hold a maximum of 2 wheelchairs or ecvs (electric scooters). Wheelchairs and/or ecvs need to be loaded from the back door and the driver must usually know that there is a wheelchair to load before he/she stops the bus in order to line everything up correctly. People with wheelchairs or ecvs are told to go out in the open (about where the back door of the bus will be) in order to have the driver see them. The driver needs to operate the lift and usually, they close the front door of the bus so that no one is coming onto the bus while the lift is being operated. Those WDW rental wheelcahirs weigh about 50 pounds (empty), so they don't want anyone trying to carry it up the back steps. My DD's manual wheelchair weighs about 40 pounds and it's a lightweight one. Since she can't walk, she can't get out of her wheelchair for boarding, but since the wheelchair has to go up the lift anyway, it doesn't matter whether the person is sitting in it or not - the lift will still be used.

One seat across from the back door of the bus is folded up to make a place for the wheelchair. If the driver allowed everyone else to load onto the bus first, whoever was in that seat would need to move when the wheelchair was boarded. Also, the more people there are on the bus, the harder it is to manouver the wheelchair into place (and it will take longer to load) the wheelchair on. Then the wheelchair is actually tied down to the floor with straps to keep it from moving/rolling on the bus.
When we first started riding the WDW buses, they did have the person in the wheelchair and one member of their party out of line and the rest of their party was to wait in the line and tell the bus driver that there was a wheelchair to board. That took a lot longer to load the wheelchair because of all the people. Sometimes, once I got to the front, we couldn't ride because the lift or straps were not in working order, so we waited for the next bus. Although things usually work out, we have already waited over an hour for the bus at DD because the 3 buses that came in that time period either had already picked up 2 wheelchairs, the straps were missing for the tiedowns or one of the buses didn't have a lift.

For our party, we usually only sit if there are still seats left when the bus has been fully loaded. And we have heard comments of the "why do they waste 2 seats on having a wheelchair on. Those people shouldn't be allowed to ride the bus" type. It's not a pleasant bus ride when you know people are looking at you and thinking things like that.
On our last trip, we waited off to the side sitting on benches at MK since there were people already waiting for the bus when we got to the stop. I noticed who was at the end of the line when we arrived and when we saw that they would get on the bus, we went over. I still heard some grumbling about us having "gone to the front of the line", but we had waited as long as everyone else - just not where they noticed us.

Well, I just wanted to thank you for a more clear explanation of how the procedure works for wheelchairs in regards to buses. I do understand it better now.

I really didn't mean to offend anyone. I would never ever say anything insulting or mean to anyone (intentionally) in a wheelchair regardless of the situation, and I'm very sorry you had to put up with that on your bus ride.

Now I've learned something new from these boards yet again!

 

[AKASnowWhite]

Originally posted by PatriciaH
I do not understand why people would rent a wheelchair if they did not need one. You do not get to the front of the line!

Actually, at DL people with the "special assistance passes" either go thru fast-pass line or the attraction exit where they are then loaded as soon as the next available *car* arrives.

 

[SueM in MN]

Actually, at DL people with the "special assistance passes" either go thru fast-pass line or the attraction exit where they are then loaded as soon as the next available *car* arrives.

But, very few people at WDW with wheelchairs have Guest Assistance Cards (the WDW equivalent of the DL Special Assistance Pass). The card at WDW is used to advise CMs of invisible disabilities that might require extra assistance and is not used by peole who are using a wheelchair or ecv and have only mobility problems. If you look at the Guidebook for Guests with Disabilities, most of the boarding instructions begin with "Proceed thru the regular queue." The WDW card says right on it that it is NOT meant as a way to bypass lines and that users of the Guest Assistance Card are expected to use fastpass as much as possible.

DL is a different situation since the whole park was built before people with wheelchairs were thought of. A lot of the rides are not able to be made accessible and there is not room for renovation. Some of them have made the fastpass line accessible, but the standby line isn't, so the fastpass line is literally the only way in.
At WDW, the 2 newest parks (AK and the Studio) were built with accessiblity in mind and almost all the lines involve using the regular ("Mainstream") queue. As rides at the other parks have been added, updated, or had fastpass added, they have added Mainstream queues. In addition, some rides have wheelchair accessible cars, but there might be one wheelchair accessible car in the whole ride - which means if the person with a wheelchair arrives at the boarding point just before the car arrives, they might have a short wait. If they arrive after the car has just left, they have to wait at least one ride cycle. At Buzz Lightyear, for example, we wait in the Mainstream queue until just before you get to boarding. At that point, we go to the exit to wait. Since any of the continuously loading rides can only be stopped once per cycle (and often on a specific car), we don't board immediatly. Usually we see the people who were just ahead of us in line as they exit, while we are still waiting.
Some rides can only hold one or two wheelchairs at a time, like the ride trams for the Great Movie Ride can only hold 2 wheelchair parties for each "set" of 2 trams (not each tram). So someone with a wheelchair or who needs special assistance can't take the next seat, they can only take those specific seats. And when the wheelchair seats are filled for that showing, they have to wait. That happened to us at Little Mermaid. We arrived back to use our fastpasses, but since all the wheelchair seats were filled, we had to wait for the next show, even though the theater was not filled and they were letting in people from the standby line. That has also happened to us at ITTBAB and would have at Alien Encounter (except that someone in a wheelchair ahead of us chickened out).

 

[baloo722]

I have a couple of opinions on this.

1. I do not think that people in wheelchairs should go to the front of the line. The new ques are addressing this. But, I took my MIL last year, & she had polio as a child, so a wheelchair is neccessary. we would go to get in the line as a family, and were moved to the front. we would not send her on by herself, so we went, too. (I don't want to hear the hypocrisy chorus)

2. I saw a group of 16 year old or so punks at MGM last week. They were thrown out of the line at rockin' roller coaster for acting like idiots...line jumping, cursing etc... I saw the manager talk to them. He told them to straighten up..."or else"....he then let the get on the ride without a wait...some discipline. I ran into these jerks 1/2 hour later at the great movie ride. I saw that they were using a wheelchair. On the ride they tried to get fresh with me. ! had a broken arm. I informed him that he would have a matching set if he turned around again...no more problems. On the way out, I heard one say "hey, I didn't get to use it yet!" the one in the chair hopped out, and another jumped in, & off they went running. I notified security about what they had done at RRC & what they were doing now...I believe that they were thrown out, but I am not positive.

If all of the lines were the same, there would be no need for these idiots to rent a wheelchair...sorry so long for a simple post.

 

[LAinSEA]

for the rest of us?

My 89 year old grandmother can walk (some days with a cane and some days without depending on her energy level). When we go to the malls, I rent her a wheel chair and would do the same at WDW if she were to visit with us.

Someday I might need to rent one too - and I'd rather do that than miss out on a great vacation!

But it's the idiots and the "pretenders" that stick out in everyone's mind because they so obviously don't have the wheel chairs or ECV's for the right reasons. Last year we were waiting in the line for test track (FP line) and this guy in an ECV was literally running into folks and railings and the CM's when they tried to assist him. Then when he couldn't manuver the contraption up the ramp and around the corners, he got frustrated, got out and told his teenage son to take it up and park it! Then he all but jogged up the ramp! We saw the same family later in the day and the mom of the group was riding it!

I don't think WDW should rent out the well needed wheel chairs and ECV's to just anyone...they should have the right to use common sense and good judgment and refuse to rent the equipment to those who don't need it.

 

[BibbidyBobbidyBoo]

I think if she needs it- you should get it and not worry about what anyone else thinks. She needs it- and that is all that matters.

I have (had?? not sure.... they don't hurt anymore so I don't know if they healed themselves since we never did get around to the surgery part to find out why I had so much pain and why they were so swollen with fluids in the knees- and now they aren't swollen or hurting so I don't know what was going on back then. I have lost a lot of weight recently- that had been gained in the past few years- so perhaps my poor worn out knees just couldn't take the weight?) bad knees. To most I would appear perfectly able-bodied and in most cases I AM. But after a lot of walking (oh, let's say 6 days nonstop at the parks LOL) they were hurting pretty bad on the 7th day when we were at US.

I rented an ECV (thank goodness they didn't require a dr's note. I wouldn't have had one with me- would they take a phone call or fax from dr??) and mostly sat out that day. If the line was extremely short (like some of the little kiddie rides on one side of that park- Cat in the Hat area I think it's called?) I would get out and walk up to ride with the kids- but straight back in the ECV I went afterwards. Almost every ride I just waited it out... I didn't really think I could handle standing in long lines and I certainly did not even think about trying to find a way to get ahead of everyone else! But to some people, had they been watching me when I rode the little rides with the kids that had hardly no waiting time at all, they probably thought "there's a faker".

Whatever.... I do not care what they think. I needed it, so I used it. (I really overdid it that week, just 2wks after getting an MRI to try to find out what was wrong with my knees- especially one was bad but they were BOTH swollen and very painful by the end of that trip. I thought I was going to have to ask DH to carry ME to the car after we left there too. That's quite a walk from the entrance through citywalk to parking area eh? LOL)

It wasn't cheap either... but I guess I can see why it would be considered a bargain to those REALLY faking it and then using it to get front of the line access! What someone else said is right- it's the ones that are pretending that ruin it for others and make everyone else start trying to judge whether they think that person really needs it or not.

 

[kathylovesdisneyworl]

Don't worry, you said nothing that would affend someone who needed to be assisted first. I think you will find that the people who really need assistance do not expect special treatment. Just there special needs met.

 

[Minniespal]

Don't worry about it - Do what is best for your mom.

 

[catherine]

I am appalled that people with disabilities have to endure the ignorance of some people which results in them having to decide whether to use a wheelchair and put up with looks and comments, or put their health on the line and not use one.

Why is it that we cannot take things at face value and just go with the flow. Some people will always abuse the system, but IMHO making people feel uncomfortable because they need to use a wheelchair is way out of line. Lets face it, as others have already mentioned, it is not always obvious who has a disability.

Jenfur, I would get a wheelchair for your mom. It is not worth putting her quality of life on the line, for the sake of the ignorance of a minority of people.

Whatever you decide to do I hope that you have a brilliant time.

Catherine

 

[SueM in MN]

Well said, catherine.
Even though there is a perception that wheelchair users get a lot of special treatment, they don't. There is very little moving ahead in lines and for those few rides where it does happen, it is because the line is not accessible - it never was a"perk" for people with disabilities; it was a way to allow people access that would not have been able to ride at all otherwise.

And, unless you know someone's medical history (actually their whole family's), there is no way to tell who might be "cheating". Sometimes people with 2 family member who both have mobility problems, will rent one wheelchair or ecv and trade off using it, because of the expense and because people get tired of sitting all day. Think of how you feel after a long plane or car ride; doesn't it feel good to get up and stretch your legs??

And sometimes the person in the wheelchair isn't the person it belongs to:
When our DDs were younger, sometimes we would carry the younger one (who was 2 1/2 when she got her first wheelchair) and her older sister would ride in the wheelchair because she was tired. Anyone seeing her later in the day might assume that a perfectly healthy child was using a wheelchair she didn't need (which was true, but it wasn't her wheelchair, it was her sister's).

I also have a former co-worker who went to WDW years ago with her 2 sons - one was about 6 or 7 and the other about 8 or 9 (maybe 10). She rented a wheelchair for her son, both of whom looked healthy, ran around at times and even chased each other a few times (getting looks from people who wondered why such healthy little boys had a mom pushing a wheelchair). Sometimes, the younger boy would get tired and ride in the wheelchair for a little while - of course people who saw him would notice a healthy little boy sitting in the wheelchair and might remember they saw him running around earlier. When he was absolutely ready to drop, the older boy would sometimes sit in the wheelchair for a little while (but he told his mom he did not want to be seen in it). Of course, anyone who saw him earlier running and overheard his comments might think he was talking about cheating. Well, the fact was that the younger boy was perfectly healthy. The older boy had a heart defect that was not totally repaired by several surgeries. His mom found that he had died in his sleep a little after his 18th birthday. Even though he looked pretty healthy to a casual observer and could even run for short distance, his parents had been told he'd be lucky to survive into his teens.

Comments, staring, ect. hurt people with disabilities (visible or invisible). Every time this subject comes up in the boards, I get PMs and emails from lurkers (or just people who are afraid to post) talking about how they felt when someone looks at them and makes a judgement. Personally, I go to WDW to forget my life outside WDW; when someone stares or I overhear a comment about my "healthy" daughter in her wheelchair, it brings reality back and I have to think of all the things that she will never do. Even though she might look "normal" to someone who sees her for a few minutes, she is severly disabled. I don't want reminders of that at WDW and I know I am speaking for a lot of other people who have hidden disabilities.

The few people who rent a wheelchair or ecv who don't have a need probably are not at all bothered by the comments or stares, but the person who has been getting up their courage for years to use a wheelchair and not be in pain will notice. And anyone who is using one because they think they will get advantages will soon find out that there are very few advantages. I doubt that there really are that many who rent them without need; it costs $10 a day for a wheelchair, and $30 a day for an ecv. It's a little cheaper if you rent from off-site, but still expensive, plus there may be a hold of up to $1000 put on a credit card until the ecv/wheelchair is returned. So, it's not something people do lightly.
Having to "prove" a disability before renting a wheelchair or ecv sounds like a good idea on the surface, but what about people like how BibbidyBobbidyBoo, who found after she was there that she couldn't do all the walking? How about if the same logic is applied to something more people can relate to, like renting a stroller? What if the rule was that you had to prove a need for renting a stroller for children over the age of 3? Maybe prove that the child could not walk all day in the parks, or have doctor's note? Who would be happy with someone else judging what their child could or could not do or whether they could rent a stroller or not???

 

[seashoreCM]

Nobody should be horsing around with wheelchairs and ECV's. This abuses the equipment, and can be assumed to be injurious to any legitimate occupant. This can be considered a telltale sign that the users of that wheelchair are fakers.

If Disney wants to, tney can make a note of who is supposed to be using each rented wheelchair, may be more than one person as explained earlier. Then if other guests notice horseplay and cell phone in, the users of the wheelchair can be watched by security for misuse or fakery.

Do wheelchairs have hoods that can be attached, like some strollers? Then someone who must not be in the sun can be shaded.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

"If I had to walk ALL the way here from the previous ride, I wouldn't be conscious enough to enjoy this ride!"

 

[SueM in MN]

Nobody should be horsing around with wheelchairs and ECV's. This abuses the equipment, and can be assumed to be injurious to any legitimate occupant. This can be considered a telltale sign that the users of that wheelchair are fakers.

Not neccessarily.
On one trip to WDW, I saw an elderly man who had a small child (probably his grandson) on his lap. He was driving the ecv at pretty much full speed down the sidewalk in front of Main Street. He would come very close to a particular elderly woman and another man (who obviously knew him) and then stop just short of hitting them. The woman almost fell off the curb one time. The ecv had some features that were custom features, so it was not a rented ecv. Security stopped him and told him to behave.
And many kids like to do "wheelies" with their wheelchairs, which involves balancing the wheelchair on its back wheels with the front wheels in the air. (some adults too. I work in a Rehab hospital and see them doing it as they get comfortable in their wheelchairs). My DD also likes to have someone push her wheelchair at running speed. All of those things could appear to be abuse by people who own their wheelchairs.

Do wheelchairs have hoods that can be attached, like some strollers? Then someone who must not be in the sun can be shaded.

No, they don't have hoods. We've tried in the past to rig up an umbrella to DD's wheelchair, but it didn't work well. The problem is that it restricts the view of the person who is using the wheelchair. It also isolates them and makes it hard for them to talk with other members of their party.

 

[Talking Hands]

Actually Sue there are hoods available as add-ons for some power chairs. Expensive but useful in the hot Florida sun. Never seen one for a manual chair though.

 

[mickeysaver]

My mother had MS and she looked ok, until you got her up and walking more than a few feet. I never felt that anyone looked at her as though she had no right to a wheelchair. My mother outlaw came with us to MK one day last year and we rented her an ECV. She has really bad health problems and poops out quickly when walking even very short distances. Again, I don't think anyone looked at her as abusing the need for an ECV.

My point is that there are many people walking or riding around the face of the Earth that look pretty healthy, but just don't have the ability to get around too well. And you know what? It's nobody's d*mn business but their own. I would never assume that a person using a wheelchair or ECV was doing so out of anything other than true need, unless they were an actor using one for a part.

So, get the wheelchair! Mickey

 

[SueM in MN]

Actually Sue there are hoods available as add-ons for some power chairs. Expensive but useful in the hot Florida sun. Never seen one for a manual chair though.

I've seen umbrellas, but never hoods and no hoods in the accessories for my DD's manual or her power chair. There probably is a lot more demand for them in Florida than in Minnesota though.

 

[princesstommi]

As a former CM, I used to work at Oscar's at the Studios. Honestly, it's not practical or possible to *verify* the need for every wheelchair rented. For groups, usually the whole group woudn't come through the line, so dad may be coming to rent and pay for the wheelchair for his mom. Or during the day, someone from the party would come to the front of the park to get a wheelchair for someone in their party who really couldn't continue without one. There was no judgement from the CM side of the counter for what/who the wheelchair was for. The only real problem that there would be sometimes was people demanding an ECV after we were out. They are more limited than wheelchairs, and need to be recharged when they do come back in.

Not to mention, there is no reason to question people. I would feel totally out of place and I think it would totally inappropriate to have to question a guest. Most guests are honest. Most guests are just trying to make their trip the best it can be.

It really sucks when people abuse any system, especially one in place to help those who need the help. (and as for the people that really do abuse it, like the teenagers as an example, should be thrown out of the park and *punished* for doing something so bad) Having to be in a wheelchair in the parks isn't the greatest thing in the world either. Sure, there are some rides where guests need more/different assistance, including front of the line access, or backdoor access. But the rest of the time, they have to navigate the park through people who pay no attention to them. It's hard to get a wheelchair through a crowd of people who only care about their space and their path. There are plenty of guests who are not courteous to the guests in wheelchairs, and sometimes it's much more difficult to do normal things, like get through shops and large crowds...for the person in the wheelchair and their party.

And it really sucks that people are so quick to judge those who would love to be able to walk through the parks like the majority of guests. But those people are probably always looking for something to complain about, and are the kind of people who aren't happy unless they are the ones getting *special treatment*.

To the OP - get the wheelchair. You have every right to take advantage of the system that is in place to help you enjoy your trip to WDW to the fullest. And ignore the people who give you mean looks and stupid comments. They will be unhappy no matter what...don't let them ruin it for you.

 

[winniedapooh]

This is also a tough one for me.....I am one of those that tour the parks and fall into bed at night crying with pain meds. because I look healthy but have absolutely horrible knees and hips. I have never gotten a wheelchair because I am afraid of what others would think if they saw me walking off and on rides etc. I wish I felt different and DH wishes I would use one before I end up in one permanently! I for one can say that I do not look at others in wheelchairs.....DSister is in a wheelchair and has a service dog, paralyzed from the waist down and she gets looks!!!!!

 

[Lezah]

When we took our DS for his second WDW visit when he was four and a half, he had just had surgery 1 week previously for his severe nose bleeds. He was very anemic, pale and weak, needless to say. This was not a scheduled surgery, but a scheduled trip that was already paid for so we had to go. We got him a wheelchair and were subject to the looks all around the parks because he didn't look sick (unless you knew him and could see how not himself and pale he was). At one point we were watching Off Kilter (our favourite band) and he got up from his wheelchair and danced to his favourite song, and I thought there would be a riot. After this he collapsed into his wheelchair and was there for the rest of the afternoon, but of course no one saw that, just that an obviously healthy boy was abusing the system. We had to actually explain things to people, thinking about it later, I'm sorry I did, cause whose business is it anyway. We were there in April last year with my 71 year old parents, both of which need ECV's DM for heart problems and DF for severe arthritis. There are not as many opportunity for front of the line treatment as there was before, and that is a good thing. People who have to use a wheelchair are not using it for a perk, for the most part, they are using it for a medical reason. I had heard that Disney was going to require a medical note to rent wheelchairs and ECV's, but as stated in earlier posts, that would create a problem for anyone thinking they could do the parks and then getting overwhelmed while there. What about people who sprain ankles or break toes while there? Anyway enough of MHO. This is a topic that has and will be widely debated forever, I'm sure.

 

[donna in Oz]

This is a great thread, and hopefully it has opened the eyes of some folks who are too quick to judge.

I know I'll look kindlier on those who might seem to be "fakers". If they are actually in need of an ECV or wheelchair, a few kind words might make their day and help them forget about some of the more negative experiences they may have had that day.

And if not?? Well, it takes all kinds to make a world.

 

[deb305]

This is a great thread. We took my mom a few years ago. She has arthritis in her back, hip and knee, so walking more than a few minutes at a time is painful, much less standing in line. She looks healthy otherwise,especially since she always smiles with her grandchildren.We rented her an ECV to get around the parks. Some of the issues:
- Going to the head of the line- On almost every line my mom tried to leave her ECV to stand in the lines (despite the pain). Always a CM asked her to get back in it and drive it to the handicap entrance. We tried to explain she was willing to stand in line, they said policy kept them from letting her do it.
- The CMS were also insistent the whole group accompanied her. Face it half the fun was being with the grandchildren on the rides. My DB,DH and I would sit it out just to keep the group size small
-The only time the whole group went with her were the shows, only because the CM's assured us that the handicap section remained the same number of seats regardless of how many we had in line.

After going through this, we no longer look at others in ECV's and wheelchairs the same. 99% of them have a disability that would have made the trip impossible with out assistance.
Our last trip was just DH,DS,DD and me. Yes we joked about how DD missed going to the front of line, but we were just grateful that we all able bodied enough to stand in line. DH had knee surgery a few months ago, and there was a possibility he could be disabled. Things are getting better, but the gift of good health was driven home even more.
To the OP, the ECV will be a lifesaver. Don't make our mistake about worrying too much what others will think. I hope you enjoy your trip to the fullest.