Relationship Struggle

[ronandannette]

I apologize that I have not posted/responded. I was away at WDW with my family, a wonderful trip to celebrate my mom.
I have read & thought about the advice & opinions expressed here daily. Before leaving, my DBF & I talked about

...talked about what?!? Don't leave me hanging.

 

[Positive]

...talked about what?!? Don't leave me hanging.

Sorry! I hit the post reply button too soon

 

[Positive]

But the bottom line is they are not step-siblings in any way. OP and boyfriend are not married nor even living together, nor did the OP raise the daughter as her own. To call them step siblings is more than a stretch - it's simply untrue. Even if the OP wants to pretend they are. And similarly, just because the OP thinks the mom is mentally ill and toxic (yet the dad allowed her to have custody for some reason?) doesn't mean that's true either. As for the mother allowing the boyfriend to move in, probably not the decision I would have made but then again since the mother is being used as a scape goat for everything I am assuming there is probably a little more context to that tale.

For the DIS record, we have never called our kids step siblings or referred to them as brothers/sisters. I have never called him my husband nor referred to myself as his wife & same with him. I don't pretend anything. I'm not sure if his ex wife is mentally ill or not, I'm not a doctor. She is toxic & he had joint custody of their DD. He didn't "allow" her to have custody, a judge decides these things in a divorce & usually a mom does retain physical custody of children. I am not using DBFs ex as a scapegoat, I have stated true facts about events that have happened.

 

[DisneyHardin]

I've been following this thread from the beginning and am sorry @Positive for the struggles your relationship is going through.

The thing I find most interesting about all the comments is how many people are hung up on the fact that they aren't married. Not everyone wants to be married. My mom and her BF have been together just about the same amount of time as the OP. Mom says that she absolutely does not want to get married again and enjoys having her own house and her own space. That's not to say that she doesn't love BF, but she doesn't want to be married. Commitment doesn't always mean living together and married.

 

[NHdisneylover]

They did live together once my DBF's ex wife allowed him to move into her home.
His DD was in high school & we both found it totally inappropriate & inconceivable.

The PP you quoted was refering to your DBF's daughter and your nephew having not lived together in any sort of a sibling like relationship in your home or your DBF's home----not the situation that happened once they were already dating.
I agree that it seems off to move a significant other of a minor in your care into your home---but that doesn't relate at all to the appropriateness of the two dating given your and your DBFs relationship

 

[sk!mom]

I apologize that I have not posted/responded. I was away at WDW with my family, a wonderful trip to celebrate my mom.
I have read & thought about the advice & opinions expressed here daily. Before leaving, my DBF & I talked about where & why we are struggling with each other. I let him know what I need from him, i.e.: sharing info, news, etc about his DD, that it is disrespectful to me as a person & us as a couple to keep a major part of his life closed off. Though many here have expressed that we are a "loss" because we are not married or living together, this is not an issue to me. Maybe someday it will be down the road, but today it is not. I love this man, we DO have a life together. We have laughed, cried, planned together, supported each other, cared about one another's families & kids, gone out of our way to think of one another & what would make life better/easier for the other, we give each other advice & call each other on the carpet when needed. I still appreciate those views/opinions. I am secure with myself to hear a differing opinion.
When I came home, my DBF was clearly making an effort to share & it's a start. I am a realistic person & I know there is a long way to go.
I would like to offer a better explanation about Thanksgiving, since it pushed some DISers buttons about my actions (i.e.:not bringing up the subject of the holiday & instead waiting for him to do so). Here it goes...This is a man that I see or at a minimum speak to every day. In all of the years before there was strife between his DD & I, he would absolutely be asking me about Thanksgiving plans-what's on the menu, will I be sure to make sweet potato soufflé, he loves it, what time will we be eating, what does he need to bring, he would remind me that HE will bring up the extra table & chairs so I don't hurt my back again. 2 years ago, he opted to go to his sister's for Thanksgiving & let me know last minute. This past year, he said nothing. During every conversation we had leading up to the day, he evaded the subject of Thanksgiving-maybe out of conflict of where & how & with whom he was going to spend the day. I deserved more than that & I let him know it. It was unacceptable & can never happen again.
I have not ruled out seeing a couples therapist together, although I also know that nobody is as invested in us as we are in each other. If we are both going to work this out, we are the ones that need to figure out how & what works for us. In the end we are only accountable to each other. I know this year will be a turning point for us -if it is more of the same, I know I will not be able to continue in our relationship. If we can find common ground out of respect for each other to BOTH share details about our kids & he would need to an all around better job at navigating things with his DD & me I would know that we turned a corner.

I urge you to seek counseling. It seems so clear to me that your BF began to pull away 2 years ago. You don't have to force someone to choose for them to choose. He really seems to have made a choice but you aren't recognizing that. You seem to be holding out hope which I get- you love him, it's been many good years, you aren't ready to move on, etc... A good counselor will help you guys either figure out how to work through the issues or help you see that it isn't possible.

I'm very sorry! And very glad that you had a good trip with your family.

 

[Disney Doll]

So here’s what I think:
1. A guy who has supposedly loved you for 18 years doesn’t have the guts to stand up to his kid
2. Instead of standing up to his kid, he chooses to make you the 2nd class citizen
3. Don’t care whether or not you’re married. Doesn’t matter. You have been his committed partner for a longer time than some people are married.
4. He’s not treating you honorably or with respect NOW.
5. You will always be 2nd fiddle to his daughter. Past behavior is a good predictor of future behavior.

You don’t have a step-daughter problem. You don’t have an ex-wife problem. You have a boyfriend problem. All the extraneous details about the DD, her crazy mother, the relationship between the DD & your nephew, what his extended family thinks/says when you’re not at a family function after you’ve been a couple for 18 years don’t matter.

What matters is do the positives of the relationship outweigh the negatives FOR YOU. If they do, then stay. And learn to deal with your “second fiddle to his DD” issue. Or as Dear Abby used to say “are you better with or without him?”

I know what my decision would be...Thanksgiving would have been the dealbreaker for me. My supposed “love” keeping me hanging in front of family and friends in an embarrassing manner? Nope. My response when he asked at 10 of 3 if he could come for dinner would have been “no”.

Only you can decide for yourself if this relationship is worthwhile. Personally, he doesn’t sound very honorable to me.

 

[ThistleMae]

I apologize that I have not posted/responded. I was away at WDW with my family, a wonderful trip to celebrate my mom.
I have read & thought about the advice & opinions expressed here daily. Before leaving, my DBF & I talked about where & why we are struggling with each other. I let him know what I need from him, i.e.: sharing info, news, etc about his DD, that it is disrespectful to me as a person & us as a couple to keep a major part of his life closed off. Though many here have expressed that we are a "loss" because we are not married or living together, this is not an issue to me. Maybe someday it will be down the road, but today it is not. I love this man, we DO have a life together. We have laughed, cried, planned together, supported each other, cared about one another's families & kids, gone out of our way to think of one another & what would make life better/easier for the other, we give each other advice & call each other on the carpet when needed. I still appreciate those views/opinions. I am secure with myself to hear a differing opinion.
When I came home, my DBF was clearly making an effort to share & it's a start. I am a realistic person & I know there is a long way to go.
I would like to offer a better explanation about Thanksgiving, since it pushed some DISers buttons about my actions (i.e.:not bringing up the subject of the holiday & instead waiting for him to do so). Here it goes...This is a man that I see or at a minimum speak to every day. In all of the years before there was strife between his DD & I, he would absolutely be asking me about Thanksgiving plans-what's on the menu, will I be sure to make sweet potato soufflé, he loves it, what time will we be eating, what does he need to bring, he would remind me that HE will bring up the extra table & chairs so I don't hurt my back again. 2 years ago, he opted to go to his sister's for Thanksgiving & let me know last minute. This past year, he said nothing. During every conversation we had leading up to the day, he evaded the subject of Thanksgiving-maybe out of conflict of where & how & with whom he was going to spend the day. I deserved more than that & I let him know it. It was unacceptable & can never happen again.
I have not ruled out seeing a couples therapist together, although I also know that nobody is as invested in us as we are in each other. If we are both going to work this out, we are the ones that need to figure out how & what works for us. In the end we are only accountable to each other. I know this year will be a turning point for us -if it is more of the same, I know I will not be able to continue in our relationship. If we can find common ground out of respect for each other to BOTH share details about our kids & he would need to an all around better job at navigating things with his DD & me I would know that we turned a corner.

After reading your response here, and thank you for filling us in, I really don't understand such a drastic change. It sounds like you had a very full and close relationship. It is very odd that all of a sudden, he makes a different plan with no discussion. Something specific must have happened, or....a lot of things happened in his mind, that he didn't share with you along the way. What does he say about the sudden switch?

 

[Wishing on a star]

EXCELLENT post, Disney doll.

And, as far as that description of a very full and close relationship....
Just honestly, I am taking that with a huge grain of salt.
I would be afraid that most of that is a product of the OP's own wishful perceptions.

OP, I see that I had hit send on my one last post before I saw your last big update come in.
And, I am glad that you feel that you feel that his is 'making some effort'.

I would just caution that this is exactly what I would expect from a man in this position, in order to temporarily appease, feed that false 'perception', and keep the status quo.
That is what I would advise you right now.

 

[PollyannaMom]

After reading your response here, and thank you for filling us in, I really don't understand such a drastic change. It sounds like you had a very full and close relationship. It is very odd that all of a sudden, he makes a different plan with no discussion. Something specific must have happened, or....a lot of things happened in his mind, that he didn't share with you along the way. What does he say about the sudden switch?

Good point! What happened at Thanksgiving 2016 that made him go to his sister's? (Then, after being there that time, I bet he was torn between the two in 2017.) - It was still rude of him not to explain that he was having a hard time this year, but I think the actual catalyst happened earlier.

 

[VandVsmama]

So he started to step away Thanksgiving 2016...and Thanksgiving 2017 he was even worse. Hm, I'd say that he is no longer really that into you. The writing is on the wall. It's up to you to decide what you want to do. Best wishes to you!

 

[arminnie]

I think I have a totally different perspective on than almost everyone here. This is reality for me, and what I am doing works quite well. The issues of who's married, who is really committented , who is being respectful are just sort of extraneous blather.

Positive - you and the SD are both adult women. Neither of you have to like each other. Her DNA connection to someone you love (your SO) is meaningless. You do not have to work out a solution where the two of you have a relationship. Both of you should be capable of being in the same room on occasion without creating WWIII.

But part of your being civil and respectful to her is to stop trying to make a connection. Do not go up to her at events where you are both present (if that ever happens again). Stop sending her texts. Let her be. She does NOT want a relationship with you. Let it go. It doesn't matter whether she is justified or not - just respect her wishes.

She on the other hand should also be able to ignore you if you are in the same vicinity. Maybe a nod or a hello - but the two of you do not need to connect. Civility and respect to one another does not mean that you two have to hold hands and sing kumbaya. It means that you two can be in the same area without causing great discomfort for others. In other words it means that you ignore each other respectfully.

I have an adult SS that I have nothing to do with. My DH can see him as he likes. I just do not want him in my life under any circumstances. When we attend family events (not in my home) I just ignore him. I might say hello or nod my head, but I have no desire to have any real conversation with him. I would be greatly offended if he kept trying to come up and talk to me. I might leave to get away from him. I want NOTHING to do with him.

My DH and I have a GREAT relationship. Yes we are married, very committed and have an over the moon happy relationship. I would never ask my DH to stop seeing his son. But he also does not ask me to have a relationship with him.

OP - please let the thoughts of how to fix this relationship with the SD go. Let her be.

 

[Positive]

So here’s what I think:
1. A guy who has supposedly loved you for 18 years doesn’t have the guts to stand up to his kid
2. Instead of standing up to his kid, he chooses to make you the 2nd class citizen
3. Don’t care whether or not you’re married. Doesn’t matter. You have been his committed partner for a longer time than some people are married.
4. He’s not treating you honorably or with respect NOW.
5. You will always be 2nd fiddle to his daughter. Past behavior is a good predictor of future behavior.

You don’t have a step-daughter problem. You don’t have an ex-wife problem. You have a boyfriend problem. All the extraneous details about the DD, her crazy mother, the relationship between the DD & your nephew, what his extended family thinks/says when you’re not at a family function after you’ve been a couple for 18 years don’t matter.

What matters is do the positives of the relationship outweigh the negatives FOR YOU. If they do, then stay. And learn to deal with your “second fiddle to his DD” issue. Or as Dear Abby used to say “are you better with or without him?”

I know what my decision would be...Thanksgiving would have been the dealbreaker for me. My supposed “love” keeping me hanging in front of family and friends in an embarrassing manner? Nope. My response when he asked at 10 of 3 if he could come for dinner would have been “no”.

Only you can decide for yourself if this relationship is worthwhile. Personally, he doesn’t sound very honorable to me.

Thanks for your post & viewpoint. It does pretty much sum up my thoughts/feelings. I shared the background info because in my mind it made sense to explain us a couple,-where we are now & what got us here-since I am asking for help & opinions from everyone here. I do see this as a problem with my DBF, a major issue of respect & not treating me honorably as you said-AGREED!
I'm wondering/asking- do people end long term relationships over something like what I described about Thanksgiving? I know I was hurt, aggravated & basically like ***, however I did not think, its over, I'm done.
We have so many positives & this one huge negative. Picture a scale in balance, but just one major gesture/change will push it in one direction or the other, that's us. It feels that our relationship is fragile & vulnerable. My DBF has made efforts to change the way he is approaching things.

 

[smokeyblue]

I was in a similar relationship for 12 years, didn't live together, no talk of marriage, issues with being disrespected as a partner. I say this very sincerely, get out now! Life is too short to waste on a man who doesn't show respect to you. I thought I would be devastated if things ended. I was not. Life quickly moved on and I've grown much happier.

 

[Positive]

I think I have a totally different perspective on than almost everyone here. This is reality for me, and what I am doing works quite well. The issues of who's married, who is really committented , who is being respectful are just sort of extraneous blather.

Positive - you and the SD are both adult women. Neither of you have to like each other. Her DNA connection to someone you love (your SO) is meaningless. You do not have to work out a solution where the two of you have a relationship. Both of you should be capable of being in the same room on occasion without creating WWIII.

But part of your being civil and respectful to her is to stop trying to make a connection. Do not go up to her at events where you are both present (if that ever happens again). Stop sending her texts. Let her be. She does NOT want a relationship with you. Let it go. It doesn't matter whether she is justified or not - just respect her wishes.

She on the other hand should also be able to ignore you if you are in the same vicinity. Maybe a nod or a hello - but the two of you do not need to connect. Civility and respect to one another does not mean that you two have to hold hands and sing kumbaya. It means that you two can be in the same area without causing great discomfort for others. In other words it means that you ignore each other respectfully.

I have an adult SS that I have nothing to do with. My DH can see him as he likes. I just do not want him in my life under any circumstances. When we attend family events (not in my home) I just ignore him. I might say hello or nod my head, but I have no desire to have any real conversation with him. I would be greatly offended if he kept trying to come up and talk to me. I might leave to get away from him. I want NOTHING to do with him.

My DH and I have a GREAT relationship. Yes we are married, very committed and have an over the moon happy relationship. I would never ask my DH to stop seeing his son. But he also does not ask me to have a relationship with him.

OP - please let the thoughts of how to fix this relationship with the SD go. Let her be.

I don't NEED to have relationship with my BF's DD. It would be nice if we could, but this is not a deal breaker for me either. What I'm finding will be a deal breaker is how he treats me & my feelings. I don't feel that I am being a needy cling-on or unreasonable with what I have suggested to my DBF about how his improved communication with me will make us better/stronger.
It's hard for me to think of describing us as having a great/wonderful relationship, if there is huge part of his life (DD) that he keeps to himself or that we can't openly discuss. I'm not sure how the 2 of you mastered this without arguments or resentment & would love to hear more.

 

[Positive]

I was in a similar relationship for 12 years, didn't live together, no talk of marriage, issues with being disrespected as a partner. I say this very sincerely, get out now! Life is too short to waste on a man who doesn't show respect to you. I thought I would be devastated if things ended. I was not. Life quickly moved on and I've grown much happier.

I do know that if for any reason we don't make it, I will be ok. I'm not the type of person to curl up into a ball & feel sorry for myself. I'm also not afraid to be single.
That said, I do love him and want to give us every opportunity to work on this, but it does have a timeframe. I can't just keep doing the same dance every time. I don't know how recent your break up was but twelve years was a long time too & I'm sure there were many happy times & memories in there. Married or not, it seems this all comes down to respect.

 

[arminnie]

It's hard for me to think of describing us as having a great/wonderful relationship, if there is huge part of his life (DD) that he keeps to himself or that we can't openly discuss. I'm not sure how the 2 of you mastered this without arguments or resentment & would love to hear more.

What works for me is that I want my DH to keep the part of his life with his son to himself. I do not want to openly or any other way to discuss his son. His son just does not exist as far as I am concerned.

Discussing his son only causes arguments. Nothing good comes of it. I learned very quickly that the easiest way not to have arguments or resentments was just to remove his son from the equation. I know his son is a sack of something smelly. But it does no good whatsoever to point out his son's many faults. That does not mean that I pretend like the son is a decent person. It just means that he is no more relevant to me than a person my DH said hello to in the street.

Why do you think you need to be able to discuss his daughter with him? You two are never going to agree. There's a good reason that we don't discuss politics her at DIS. It only brings out rancor and bad feelings.

 

[lisaviolet]

Here is what I am reading and the part that I feel that you're missing ---

It seems like you're tallying up all the wonderful parts of your relationship. And for you there are multiples. So why wouldn't one keep working on such a relationship?

And then you are seeing this ongoing disrespect and disappointment as just a solitary negative.

But for me that's not how it works, at all. Sometimes an issue over time, not changed or even acknowledged in your situation, can be a much bigger problem that can outweigh numerous positives. Something that one can't live with anymore. And something that is hard to swallow for your own well being - your own self respect. Which for me is way more important than any length of relationship.

Just decide what is too much for you and what isn't. All this over time would be a deal breaker for me, but everyone is different in their level of acceptance.

 

[ThistleMae]

Thanks for your post & viewpoint. It does pretty much sum up my thoughts/feelings. I shared the background info because in my mind it made sense to explain us a couple,-where we are now & what got us here-since I am asking for help & opinions from everyone here. I do see this as a problem with my DBF, a major issue of respect & not treating me honorably as you said-AGREED!
I'm wondering/asking- do people end long term relationships over something like what I described about Thanksgiving? I know I was hurt, aggravated & basically like ***, however I did not think, its over, I'm done.
We have so many positives & this one huge negative. Picture a scale in balance, but just one major gesture/change will push it in one direction or the other, that's us. It feels that our relationship is fragile & vulnerable. My DBF has made efforts to change the way he is approaching things.

What are his efforts exactly? I know what you are saying....is this something that should end an otherwise very good/strong relationship. If you continue to feel the way you do, then yes. But you say he is trying but I'm not sure what that means in terms of how you feel, could you tell us what he is doing?

 

[ThistleMae]

What works for me is that I want my DH to keep the part of his life with his son to himself. I do not want to openly or any other way to discuss his son. His son just does not exist as far as I am concerned.

Discussing his son only causes arguments. Nothing good comes of it. I learned very quickly that the easiest way not to have arguments or resentments was just to remove his son from the equation. I know his son is a sack of something smelly. But it does no good whatsoever to point out his son's many faults. That does not mean that I pretend like the son is a decent person. It just means that he is no more relevant to me than a person my DH said hello to in the street.

Why do you think you need to be able to discuss his daughter with him? You two are never going to agree. There's a good reason that we don't discuss politics her at DIS. It only brings out rancor and bad feelings.

I agree....my cousin is in exactly this same situation with her step-daughter. He's never going to see her manipulations, so my cousin has to let it go or be done. They have a strong marriage and have been together many years. She's decided to let his relationship with his daughter be whatever it's going to be. She doesn't have to be involved.