Riviera Sales by the numbers (vs CCV) for 2019 - (December added 1/16/2020)

This touches on part of the misunderstanding between members in this thread and elsewhere. Pete touched on it too. I think there is a massive disparity in terms of disposable income amongst members. Are we all, as you said, part of the First World? Yes. Even the poorer citizens of Western society are more comfortable than much of the world.

I did not conclude that the member in the social media post was so comfortable that even several thousand dollars was inconsequential, because I tend to view through my own lens (it’s hard to view things otherwise). My lens is that of upper middle class with 3 children (read expensive 😑), and so I automatically view that loss of several thousand as consequential.

I think this is also a major source of the rift between those for whom the restrictions are of no consequence and those for whom it is of great consequence. This is in no way a condemnation or judgement and I hope I have not presented it that way; more of an observation. Definitely something I need to keep in mind more often.

I was loosely referring to DVC owners as a group, including that BCV seller and myself. And made general assumptions based on my view point (!)

In general, habitually wasting several thousands/hundreds isn't a good way of making money (unless you're counting on a buyout by managed funds like Musk or Wework). I go to great lengths to maximize efficiency and save, and assume other DVC owners got to be financially comfortable because they are disciplined and capable.

So, when the most economical option isn't selected by a DVC owner or prospective purchaser, I assume they made the choice because they deemed it to be "worth it" for the convenience/resort attributes/fun (rather than hapless victims who didn't know better).
 
So, when the most economical option isn't selected by a DVC owner or prospective purchaser, I assume they made the choice because they deemed it to be "worth it" for the convenience/resort attributes/fun (rather than hapless victims who didn't know better).
I definitely agree on any other financial decision, but I think there is a serious pixie dust factor that we here are someone inoculated against, just by virtue of the fact that we hang out here.

If the cynics here (speaking for myself) are not 100 % immune to the magic (that leads me to rationalize all sorts of purchases I would be disciplined enough to deny myself in “real” life), it makes me wonder how much others are effected.

The FB poster mentioned the fact that $225 was a shocking price. That and the fact that they didn’t just add on at RIV, but wanted to trade up, led me to conclusions about the poster’s financial situation that may really be off target.
 
Isn’t helpful to what exactly? The suspension of disbelief that we own a timeshare? The ability to enjoy the magic without a reminder about the transactional relationship that is reality?

I envy the pragmatic and sensible position you stake on this, a full embrace of this perspective would make for a much more pleasant experience with my timeshare ownership.

But what you’ve outlined above suggests complete acquiescence, and surrendering of voice in all matters that relate to how your timeshare is being managed by the ownership by virtue of of “that’s what it says in the contract.”

It matters nothing that you don’t like the restrictions. You could love the restrictions and effectively, your decision to not vocalize your sentiments to the company is the same. In most instances, no news is good news and that consumers not saying anything is business as usual. These restrictions are not business as usual. It is a complete departure that could have long term effects of the health of the product.

Disney is well within its right to try to squeeze every last dollar out of its timeshare product. But as an owner I am well within my right to express displeasure about it.

The DISboards is a major platform and resource for those investigating ownership. I, for one, feel it’s important that those coming here for information sees that it’s not all magic and memories. A lot of it is corporate executives making piss poor shortsighted choices as well, and I will voice that to Disney, and more importantly, I will voice that here, despite any inconvenience that may cause for those just looking for carefree enjoyment of their timeshare.

Isn't helpful to me. Until I'm ready to walk, I try to rationalize the situation. I'm sure that's how frog soups are made.

I admire people who believe in social advocacy. I absolutely think you are offering a helpful and valuable service to prospective buyers.

Is there a way you can do that without diminishing the enjoyment you get out of your DVC ownership? No sense helping the Mouse "win" even more, by not having fun on top of paying more for it.
 
Away from the side arguments - another Riviera contract for sale? I've only really been involved with DVC for the last 6 years, but I don't even remember so many contracts going up for sale so soon after purchase. There's been at least half a dozen so far, and I can't remember seeing that many CCV ones in the first year - though admittedly I wasn't watching closely. I am not saying this to say it's a Riviera issue - but it makes me wonder if we're seeing the first evidence of a slowing economy. Because in a financial crunch, the first thing to go will be a DVC contract.
I think some of it is that the lead time to the actual resort opening, that is why we are seeing so many. I think DVC might have made a mistake in trying to open sales up so early. For people with pixie dust in their eyes, having to wait over 6+ months to actually stay at the resort you are paying probably over $500/month to finance gets annoying/disappointing. It's almost like the issue they are having with Galaxy's Edge, they probably should have waited till they had the main ride ready to open. But, I also think that with the way the current uncertainty in the economy is the biggest factor. No one wants to be on the hook for a $30k timeshare going in to a down economy.
 


Away from the side arguments - another Riviera contract for sale? I've only really been involved with DVC for the last 6 years, but I don't even remember so many contracts going up for sale so soon after purchase. There's been at least half a dozen so far, and I can't remember seeing that many CCV ones in the first year - though admittedly I wasn't watching closely. I am not saying this to say it's a Riviera issue - but it makes me wonder if we're seeing the first evidence of a slowing economy. Because in a financial crunch, the first thing to go will be a DVC contract.
I think some of it is that the lead time to the actual resort opening, that is why we are seeing so many. I think DVC might have made a mistake in trying to open sales up so early. For people with pixie dust in their eyes, having to wait over 6+ months to actually stay at the resort you are paying probably over $500/month to finance gets annoying/disappointing. It's almost like the issue they are having with Galaxy's Edge, they probably should have waited till they had the main ride ready to open. But, I also think that with the way the current uncertainty in the economy is the biggest factor. No one wants to be on the hook for a $30k timeshare going in to a down economy.

I think it’s also that we’re watching Riviera resales so closely, to see to what extent the resale restrictions affect them. I know BLT went on sale significantly early but I don’t remember resales being scrutinized like this. Of course I wasn’t following the boards as closely as I am now, so it may be observation bias on my part.
 
I think I saw on the Rofr thread that someone got a resale Riv contract. They paid $140 pp I think it was 160 point contract
 


I understand..but is it really the DVC guides job to share information about how to sell a currently owned contract for profit? I think that is the difference for me.

The information not shared with this particular buyer has nothing to do with buying a direct contract from Disney. She asked if Disney would buy it from her/him and they made her an offer,

Now if guides are not sharing the change in resale restrictions for Rivera I. Compared to L14 resorts, then yes, that would be withholding relevant information

They used to. They would direct owners to a broker.

And yes, not doing so puts them on the shady side of timeshares now. I have never understood how timeshares and car dealers have managed to pursue the business tactics they have and get passes because "it's what all timeshares do" or "all car dealers do". Really not a defense IMO nor do they need to be defended IMO.
 
Is there a way you can do that without diminishing the enjoyment you get out of your DVC ownership? No sense helping the Mouse "win" even more, by not having fun on top of paying more for it.
That’s a great question and the honest answer is “I’m not sure.” Lately the restrictions have been bothering me a lot. The more I think about the decisions Disney has been making of late, the more I think maybe I should put my money where my mouth is and walk away.

The thing is, when I’m at the park with my family or friends, I am never thinking about the devaluation of ownership interest by way of poor developer decisions. Even here on the DIS, in private conversations with friends off the public forums, I don’t tend to dwell on corporate greed or lament the direction the company is heading with its timeshare; conversations mostly revolve around dining reservations and fast pass touring plans.

All that said, 2019 has been incredibly challenging in terms of overlooking Disney’s actions and ignoring the rising water temperatures.

Part of me really wants to believe the reallocations were the result of a miscalculation of data, or that the restrictions are a misunderstanding of the resale/rental market, but I’m not convinced. Over the last year, every time I have interacted with a guide in the park (a recent tour), or chat with a CM or executive, I get the feeling that Disney’s timeshare is changing in a very fundamental way and their view of the restrictions speak so loudly to this.

Beyond just concerning me as an owner of a real estate interest, it saddens me to see a great product being broken so carelessly by the stewards put in charge of its long term health; a horizon clearly beyond the scope of their career-advancing, transient tenure.

Someone who I respect hugely once accused me of not being cynical enough; that my disappointment in these recent developments are borne of not distrusting the Walt Disney Company, Inc. enough. That may be true. But it doesn’t make processing all these changes and how my ownership fits into them any easier. Setting such a low bar just makes me sad.
 
Away from the side arguments - another Riviera contract for sale? I've only really been involved with DVC for the last 6 years, but I don't even remember so many contracts going up for sale so soon after purchase. There's been at least half a dozen so far, and I can't remember seeing that many CCV ones in the first year - though admittedly I wasn't watching closely. I am not saying this to say it's a Riviera issue - but it makes me wonder if we're seeing the first evidence of a slowing economy. Because in a financial crunch, the first thing to go will be a DVC contract.

It's been quite a few resorts since they had such a long sales time before opening. I don't recall how long AKV had but I'd tend to say that in the past 15 years only BLT has been similar in length to Riviera. I find it sad but don't find anything very telling in the resale numbers. Just a confirmation that life happens and what your sure of can change much more quickly than you'd ever expect.
 
It's been quite a few resorts since they had such a long sales time before opening. I don't recall how long AKV had but I'd tend to say that in the past 15 years only BLT has been similar in length to Riviera. I find it sad but don't find anything very telling in the resale numbers. Just a confirmation that life happens and what your sure of can change much more quickly than you'd ever expect.
Because of the recent discounts, there is a significant number of guests that will be staying at the Riviera on cash between opening and the end of March. You can expect to see DVC put the full court press on those guests and the sales numbers from those months should be very telling. Until then there's not much to do but wait. And speculate our behinds off. :)
 
To Disney's credit - they didn't have much choice but to open up Riviera sales early. CCV was selling much better than expected and almost sold out by January. They either opened sales at Riviera or they had nothing to sell. This is the reason I don't think Disney is sweating yet about the resale restrictions affecting sales, they probably were expecting softer sales before the resort opened.

As I said, we have to really look at sales in about 6-9 months and if they are still soft - then we may look at them lifting the resale restrictions.
 
To Disney's credit - they didn't have much choice but to open up Riviera sales early. CCV was selling much better than expected and almost sold out by January. They either opened sales at Riviera or they had nothing to sell. This is the reason I don't think Disney is sweating yet about the resale restrictions affecting sales, they probably were expecting softer sales before the resort opened.

As I said, we have to really look at sales in about 6-9 months and if they are still soft - then we may look at them lifting the resale restrictions.
Um, Aulani? ;)

Seriously, though, you bring up a good point. The timing of the launch of RIV and the sellout of CCV was very well structured and appears to have been planned. I still think that if sales are sluggish they will simply add more carrots. I don't think the stick is going away.
 
So I see there are a few Riviera resale listings at various prices. One is $135, one is $160 and one is $170 PP. Do we know if any previous ones have actually closed yet and what was the final sale price? Just wondering.
 
As far as I can tell one Riv contract sold for $100/pp and the other sold for $140/pp according to the Rofr thread. Others might know of additional resale contacts that actually sold
 
As far as I can tell one Riv contract sold for $100/pp and the other sold for $140/pp according to the Rofr thread. Others might know of additional resale contacts that actually sold

These are the only two I am aware of that have actually sold.
 
These are the only two I am aware of that have actually sold.
I believe there was another mentioned on the DVC podcast that they had listed (and immediately sold) a RIV contract. However, they were not able to tell what the going price was due to it being “under contract” and had not gone past ROFR at the time of broadcast.
 
I believe there was another mentioned on the DVC podcast that they had listed (and immediately sold) a RIV contract. However, they were not able to tell what the going price was due to it being “under contract” and had not gone past ROFR at the time of broadcast.

I believe that is the $140 point contract above. Jerry couldn't talk about it until after ROFR, but this past week when we were recording the next round of shows he indicated it had gone for $140 a point and had passed ROFR. (I don't think we mentioned it specifically on the show as we didn't record a show about Riviera this month.)
 
I believe that is the $140 point contract above. Jerry couldn't talk about it until after ROFR, but this past week when we were recording the next round of shows he indicated it had gone for $140 a point and had passed ROFR. (I don't think we mentioned it specifically on the show as we didn't record a show about Riviera this month.)
Pete, that is absolutely crazy! Guaranteed vacation at the same place for the next 50 years?
 

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