Riviera?

[SG131]

Only 1 important fact imo resale restrictions.

Same for me. I didn’t buy dvc as an investment and I don’t plan on selling, but my health isn’t perfect and life can throw you for a loop sometimes so I’d like to know that if I had to sell in 3 years I wouldn’t lose a big chunk of money.

 

[sethschroeder]

Come on Seth is it all about the money? Did you buy to make a profit or buy to stay at Disney?

What? I don't get your comment at all.

I bought at BWV because I like it the most, it's less expensive, and has lower point requirements.

I could justify a 23 year contract by investing the savings and thus having a good amount for my next contract.

My comment is to the point that when the '43 contracts expire then I can buy there and how you could offset that purchase if you wanted.

I didn't invest the savings as I didn't have the money in cash to pay for 230 points at Riviera.

 

[Frederic Civish]

I think Riviera is going to be a winner in many ways. It is beautiful. I like the skyliner access, and it seems like Disney has done a first rate job.

However, there are some potential problems. Biggest one - and this WILL affect EVERYONE who owns there - is the restrictions on resales. I had $25,000 saved in the bank as a down payment on some points at Riviera. I was going to buy. I told everyone I was going to buy. But then Disney announced their very idiotic restrictions and I pulled the plug.

What is the problem with the Resale Restrictions? One obvious thing is that, if you need to sell for some reason, you are probably not going to get as good a return on your resale, compared to some other properties. BUT THAT ISN'T THE BIGGEST PROBLEM. Here is the big problem: Over time, there WILL be resales at Riviera, and every one of those people will be locked into Riviera and ONLY Riviera. Imagine a time comes when 10% or even 20% of the owners are resale owners.

Now, look at it from the point of view of those resale owners, who can't go anywhere else. They will know that there will be NOTHING available after the 7 month window, because other DVC owners will be jumping in to reserve Riviera rooms. This means that those Riviera Resale Owners, who are now second class citizens in DVC like never before, will absolutely HAVE TO BOOK THEIR ROOMS DURING THE 7 TO 11 MONTH WINDOW. Even if they don't know their travel dates. Even if they don't plan to go that year. Sure, they can bank their points and use them, at Riviera, next year, but then when they bank their points for the following year, eventually, they are going to need to use them, or lose them. In order not to lose them, they will book early early early, so they can get a decent unit before all the Studios are snapped up. AND, if they can't use them, they will rent them out, which also means trying to get the most attractive units and seasons for their renters. Riviera will become perhaps the most rented DVC property, since many of the owners won't be able to use it, and won't have the access to other properties. Anyway, between the resale owners being motivated to reserve EARLY, either for themselves or for their renters, this will put greatly increased pressure on EVERYONE, including the other 90% or 80% of people who own Direct, and they will also have to start reserving very early, in order to make sure they get anything at all. My prediction is that the average reservation at Riviera will be done significantly earlier in the 11 month window than ANY other resort, on an average.

So, imagine yourself as a Direct owner. You weren't quite sure of your travel dates, so you didn't book at the crack of dawn on the 11 month window opening. Now it is 10 months out. There are no Tower studios available, of course. There are no Standard view studios available. There probably aren't even any Preferred View Studios, by the time you reach 10 months. All that you might be able to find is some 1 bedroom units, Preferred View, and they will cost you a lot more points. A 1 bedroom in the last 2 weeks of February will be 53 points per night on weekdays, and 63 points per night on weekends. Ouch. And those are Preferred View, since even the Standard View 1 bedrooms will also be gone.

Now, maybe I am going to be wrong here, though I can't imagine how. Every Riviera Resale, done by someone else, will decrease the effective quality and usefulness of Riviera for those who ARE NOT reselling.

What do you guys think?

 

[Buzzw0rthy]

I think Riviera is going to be a winner in many ways. It is beautiful. I like the skyliner access, and it seems like Disney has done a first rate job.

However, there are some potential problems. Biggest one - and this WILL affect EVERYONE who owns there - is the restrictions on resales. I had $25,000 saved in the bank as a down payment on some points at Riviera. I was going to buy. I told everyone I was going to buy. But then Disney announced their very idiotic restrictions and I pulled the plug.

What is the problem with the Resale Restrictions? One obvious thing is that, if you need to sell for some reason, you are probably not going to get as good a return on your resale, compared to some other properties. BUT THAT ISN'T THE BIGGEST PROBLEM. Here is the big problem: Over time, there WILL be resales at Riviera, and every one of those people will be locked into Riviera and ONLY Riviera. Imagine a time comes when 10% or even 20% of the owners are resale owners.

Now, look at it from the point of view of those resale owners, who can't go anywhere else. They will know that there will be NOTHING available after the 7 month window, because other DVC owners will be jumping in to reserve Riviera rooms. This means that those Riviera Resale Owners, who are now second class citizens in DVC like never before, will absolutely HAVE TO BOOK THEIR ROOMS DURING THE 7 TO 11 MONTH WINDOW. Even if they don't know their travel dates. Even if they don't plan to go that year. Sure, they can bank their points and use them, at Riviera, next year, but then when they bank their points for the following year, eventually, they are going to need to use them, or lose them. In order not to lose them, they will book early early early, so they can get a decent unit before all the Studios are snapped up. AND, if they can't use them, they will rent them out, which also means trying to get the most attractive units and seasons for their renters. Riviera will become perhaps the most rented DVC property, since many of the owners won't be able to use it, and won't have the access to other properties. Anyway, between the resale owners being motivated to rent EARLY, either for themselves or for their renters, this will put greatly increased pressure on EVERYONE, including the other 90% or 80% of people who own Direct, and they will also have to start reserving very early, in order to make sure they get anything at all. My prediction is that the average reservation at Riviera will be done significantly earlier in the 11 month window than ANY other resort, on an average.

So, imagine yourself as a Direct owner. You weren't quite sure of your travel dates, so you didn't book at the crack of dawn on the 11 month window opening. Now it is 10 months out. There are no Tower studios available, of course. There are no Standard view studios available. There probably aren't even any Preferred View Studios, by the time you reach 10 months. All that you might be able to find is some 1 bedroom units, Preferred View, and they will cost you a lot more points. A 1 bedroom in the last 2 weeks of February will be 53 points per night on weekdays, and 63 points per night on weekends. Ouch. And those are Preferred View, since even the Standard View 1 bedrooms will also be gone.

Now, maybe I am going to be wrong here, though I can't imagine how. Every Riviera Resale, done by someone else, will decrease the effective quality and usefulness of Riviera for those who ARE NOT reselling.
What do you guys think?

Very eloquently put!

This sums up my exact fears. We have a couple of nights booked this spring. I want to hold judgement until I see it in person, but its very hard to not let these thoughts creep in before we can stay there and cast an impartial vote if we want to add on or not.

 

[€lairebear]

OP asked for specific cons of Riviera. Even if this is the new normal for cost/charts/resale, that simply means it is a con for each new property, not that it is irrelevant to the question in this thread.

The op Asked for both. The resale restrictions and high point chart has been mentioned so many times and pretty straight forward. Something to consider is to expect pint charts on future resorts will be considered high if comparing to older existing resorts. I feel it’s something to think about long term to purchase sufficient points that allows one to stay in future resorts as opposed to minimal amount. Now the resort has opened what are both the pros and cons though. I’ve heard mixed reviews about the pools but feel that’s all based on individuals preference as well as lobby. One might find they looks of lobby important and others not so much. Me personally the room layout and size is more essential but other owners might find a grand lobby is important. My understanding is the op wants feedback on those that may have visited or stayed at riviera. The resale restrictions and high point chart has been discussed and mentioned in so many threads it’s becoming an old topic.

 

[zavandor]

I think Riviera is going to be a winner in many ways. It is beautiful. I like the skyliner access, and it seems like Disney has done a first rate job.

However, there are some potential problems. Biggest one - and this WILL affect EVERYONE who owns there - is the restrictions on resales. I had $25,000 saved in the bank as a down payment on some points at Riviera. I was going to buy. I told everyone I was going to buy. But then Disney announced their very idiotic restrictions and I pulled the plug.

What is the problem with the Resale Restrictions? One obvious thing is that, if you need to sell for some reason, you are probably not going to get as good a return on your resale, compared to some other properties. BUT THAT ISN'T THE BIGGEST PROBLEM. Here is the big problem: Over time, there WILL be resales at Riviera, and every one of those people will be locked into Riviera and ONLY Riviera. Imagine a time comes when 10% or even 20% of the owners are resale owners.

Now, look at it from the point of view of those resale owners, who can't go anywhere else. They will know that there will be NOTHING available after the 7 month window, because other DVC owners will be jumping in to reserve Riviera rooms. This means that those Riviera Resale Owners, who are now second class citizens in DVC like never before, will absolutely HAVE TO BOOK THEIR ROOMS DURING THE 7 TO 11 MONTH WINDOW. Even if they don't know their travel dates. Even if they don't plan to go that year. Sure, they can bank their points and use them, at Riviera, next year, but then when they bank their points for the following year, eventually, they are going to need to use them, or lose them. In order not to lose them, they will book early early early, so they can get a decent unit before all the Studios are snapped up. AND, if they can't use them, they will rent them out, which also means trying to get the most attractive units and seasons for their renters. Riviera will become perhaps the most rented DVC property, since many of the owners won't be able to use it, and won't have the access to other properties. Anyway, between the resale owners being motivated to rent EARLY, either for themselves or for their renters, this will put greatly increased pressure on EVERYONE, including the other 90% or 80% of people who own Direct, and they will also have to start reserving very early, in order to make sure they get anything at all. My prediction is that the average reservation at Riviera will be done significantly earlier in the 11 month window than ANY other resort, on an average.

So, imagine yourself as a Direct owner. You weren't quite sure of your travel dates, so you didn't book at the crack of dawn on the 11 month window opening. Now it is 10 months out. There are no Tower studios available, of course. There are no Standard view studios available. There probably aren't even any Preferred View Studios, by the time you reach 10 months. All that you might be able to find is some 1 bedroom units, Preferred View, and they will cost you a lot more points. A 1 bedroom in the last 2 weeks of February will be 53 points per night on weekdays, and 63 points per night on weekends. Ouch. And those are Preferred View, since even the Standard View 1 bedrooms will also be gone.

Now, maybe I am going to be wrong here, though I can't imagine how. Every Riviera Resale, done by someone else, will decrease the effective quality and usefulness of Riviera for those who ARE NOT reselling.
What do you guys think?

You can continue this scenario: the need to book early will force people to walk their reservations. There will be people walking for months to be sure to get an high demand week. People walking means availability disappearing in second at 11 months and then single days being dropped later and picked up by different people. This will cause people to piece together shorter stays which will cause higher turnover and higher housekeeping costs. This will also cause a lot of people to complain with DVC. People who bought direct and cannot find availability for week long stays.
This may cause DVC to drop the nuclear option: restrict resale to book at 10 months max (it's in the RIV POS as an option, I think). If this happens RIV resale value will drop to near zero.

This is what I call the Riviera doomsday scenario. Highly unlikely, but possible.

 

[Frederic Civish]

You can continue this scenario: the need to book early will force people to walk their reservations. There will be people walking for months to be sure to get an high demand week. People walking means availability disappearing in second at 11 months and then single days being dropped later and picked up by different people. This will cause people to piece together shorter stays which will cause higher turnover and higher housekeeping costs. This will also cause a lot of people to complain with DVC. People who bought direct and cannot find availability for week long stays.
This may cause DVC to drop the nuclear option: restrict resale to book at 10 months max (it's in the RIV POS as an option, I think). If this happens RIV resale value will drop to near zero.

This is what I call the Riviera doomsday scenario. Highly unlikely, but possible.

I agree that it is unlikely that Disney will go with the nuclear option. But it might happen. In some ways, Disney is using Riviera as an experimental test platform, in their attempts to control the resale market. But their attempts to do that are like cutting off your nose to spite your face. So, maybe they will go the opposite way and remove the special Riviera Resale Restrictions. The trouble is, if they dont do that BEFORE they sell out Riviera completely, they will have zero incentive to do it later. Even though they should realize that restricting Riviera and future resorts WILL NOT push resale buyers into Direct purchases. It will only push purchasers into the Legacy resale market, at least for the next 20 years or so.

 

[Minniesgal]

Same for me. I didn’t buy dvc as an investment and I don’t plan on selling, but my health isn’t perfect and life can throw you for a loop sometimes so I’d like to know that if I had to sell in 3 years I wouldn’t lose a big chunk of money.

It's not even that it's the difficulty booking once the resort is a few years old and has a good few resale owners who can't stay anywhere else. Resale restrictions will affect direct buyers as much as resale.

 

[Minniesgal]

I think Riviera is going to be a winner in many ways. It is beautiful. I like the skyliner access, and it seems like Disney has done a first rate job.

However, there are some potential problems. Biggest one - and this WILL affect EVERYONE who owns there - is the restrictions on resales. I had $25,000 saved in the bank as a down payment on some points at Riviera. I was going to buy. I told everyone I was going to buy. But then Disney announced their very idiotic restrictions and I pulled the plug.

What is the problem with the Resale Restrictions? One obvious thing is that, if you need to sell for some reason, you are probably not going to get as good a return on your resale, compared to some other properties. BUT THAT ISN'T THE BIGGEST PROBLEM. Here is the big problem: Over time, there WILL be resales at Riviera, and every one of those people will be locked into Riviera and ONLY Riviera. Imagine a time comes when 10% or even 20% of the owners are resale owners.

Now, look at it from the point of view of those resale owners, who can't go anywhere else. They will know that there will be NOTHING available after the 7 month window, because other DVC owners will be jumping in to reserve Riviera rooms. This means that those Riviera Resale Owners, who are now second class citizens in DVC like never before, will absolutely HAVE TO BOOK THEIR ROOMS DURING THE 7 TO 11 MONTH WINDOW. Even if they don't know their travel dates. Even if they don't plan to go that year. Sure, they can bank their points and use them, at Riviera, next year, but then when they bank their points for the following year, eventually, they are going to need to use them, or lose them. In order not to lose them, they will book early early early, so they can get a decent unit before all the Studios are snapped up. AND, if they can't use them, they will rent them out, which also means trying to get the most attractive units and seasons for their renters. Riviera will become perhaps the most rented DVC property, since many of the owners won't be able to use it, and won't have the access to other properties. Anyway, between the resale owners being motivated to reserve EARLY, either for themselves or for their renters, this will put greatly increased pressure on EVERYONE, including the other 90% or 80% of people who own Direct, and they will also have to start reserving very early, in order to make sure they get anything at all. My prediction is that the average reservation at Riviera will be done significantly earlier in the 11 month window than ANY other resort, on an average.

So, imagine yourself as a Direct owner. You weren't quite sure of your travel dates, so you didn't book at the crack of dawn on the 11 month window opening. Now it is 10 months out. There are no Tower studios available, of course. There are no Standard view studios available. There probably aren't even any Preferred View Studios, by the time you reach 10 months. All that you might be able to find is some 1 bedroom units, Preferred View, and they will cost you a lot more points. A 1 bedroom in the last 2 weeks of February will be 53 points per night on weekdays, and 63 points per night on weekends. Ouch. And those are Preferred View, since even the Standard View 1 bedrooms will also be gone.

Now, maybe I am going to be wrong here, though I can't imagine how. Every Riviera Resale, done by someone else, will decrease the effective quality and usefulness of Riviera for those who ARE NOT reselling.

What do you guys think?

This exactly imo it's don't touch with a barge pole due to restrictions which will affect all in no time at all. Doesn't matter how beautiful the resort is.

 

[Minniesgal]

You can continue this scenario: the need to book early will force people to walk their reservations. There will be people walking for months to be sure to get an high demand week. People walking means availability disappearing in second at 11 months and then single days being dropped later and picked up by different people. This will cause people to piece together shorter stays which will cause higher turnover and higher housekeeping costs. This will also cause a lot of people to complain with DVC. People who bought direct and cannot find availability for week long stays.
This may cause DVC to drop the nuclear option: restrict resale to book at 10 months max (it's in the RIV POS as an option, I think). If this happens RIV resale value will drop to near zero.

This is what I call the Riviera doomsday scenario. Highly unlikely, but possible.

Not sure it's that unlikely it's in the POS which means they have thought about using it.

 

[crvetter]

Not sure it's that unlikely it's in the POS which means they have thought about using it.

It would be interesting also if they grandfather owners in like they have consistently done until this point.

 

[Minniesgal]

It would be interesting also if they grandfather owners in like they have consistently done until this point.

I can't see that that would make sense as the whole point of doing it would be to prevent all rooms being booked up at 11 months. If they granfather almost no point in doing it.

 

[Brianstl]

https://www.disneytouristblog.com/riviera-resort-review/

 

[DougEMG]

I think Riviera is going to be a winner in many ways. It is beautiful. I like the skyliner access, and it seems like Disney has done a first rate job.

However, there are some potential problems. Biggest one - and this WILL affect EVERYONE who owns there - is the restrictions on resales. I had $25,000 saved in the bank as a down payment on some points at Riviera. I was going to buy. I told everyone I was going to buy. But then Disney announced their very idiotic restrictions and I pulled the plug.

What is the problem with the Resale Restrictions? One obvious thing is that, if you need to sell for some reason, you are probably not going to get as good a return on your resale, compared to some other properties. BUT THAT ISN'T THE BIGGEST PROBLEM. Here is the big problem: Over time, there WILL be resales at Riviera, and every one of those people will be locked into Riviera and ONLY Riviera. Imagine a time comes when 10% or even 20% of the owners are resale owners.

Now, look at it from the point of view of those resale owners, who can't go anywhere else. They will know that there will be NOTHING available after the 7 month window, because other DVC owners will be jumping in to reserve Riviera rooms. This means that those Riviera Resale Owners, who are now second class citizens in DVC like never before, will absolutely HAVE TO BOOK THEIR ROOMS DURING THE 7 TO 11 MONTH WINDOW. Even if they don't know their travel dates. Even if they don't plan to go that year. Sure, they can bank their points and use them, at Riviera, next year, but then when they bank their points for the following year, eventually, they are going to need to use them, or lose them. In order not to lose them, they will book early early early, so they can get a decent unit before all the Studios are snapped up. AND, if they can't use them, they will rent them out, which also means trying to get the most attractive units and seasons for their renters. Riviera will become perhaps the most rented DVC property, since many of the owners won't be able to use it, and won't have the access to other properties. Anyway, between the resale owners being motivated to reserve EARLY, either for themselves or for their renters, this will put greatly increased pressure on EVERYONE, including the other 90% or 80% of people who own Direct, and they will also have to start reserving very early, in order to make sure they get anything at all. My prediction is that the average reservation at Riviera will be done significantly earlier in the 11 month window than ANY other resort, on an average.

So, imagine yourself as a Direct owner. You weren't quite sure of your travel dates, so you didn't book at the crack of dawn on the 11 month window opening. Now it is 10 months out. There are no Tower studios available, of course. There are no Standard view studios available. There probably aren't even any Preferred View Studios, by the time you reach 10 months. All that you might be able to find is some 1 bedroom units, Preferred View, and they will cost you a lot more points. A 1 bedroom in the last 2 weeks of February will be 53 points per night on weekdays, and 63 points per night on weekends. Ouch. And those are Preferred View, since even the Standard View 1 bedrooms will also be gone.

Now, maybe I am going to be wrong here, though I can't imagine how. Every Riviera Resale, done by someone else, will decrease the effective quality and usefulness of Riviera for those who ARE NOT reselling.

What do you guys think?

You are bang on. This resale restriction is going to have a big impact on how early rooms get booked and make a lot of direct owners pissed off.

If resale prices ever get low enough I would be tempted to buy there and I definitely would be booking early and walking to make sure I got what I wanted and didn't waste my points.

 

[DougEMG]

You can continue this scenario: the need to book early will force people to walk their reservations. There will be people walking for months to be sure to get an high demand week. People walking means availability disappearing in second at 11 months and then single days being dropped later and picked up by different people. This will cause people to piece together shorter stays which will cause higher turnover and higher housekeeping costs. This will also cause a lot of people to complain with DVC. People who bought direct and cannot find availability for week long stays.
This may cause DVC to drop the nuclear option: restrict resale to book at 10 months max (it's in the RIV POS as an option, I think). If this happens RIV resale value will drop to near zero.

This is what I call the Riviera doomsday scenario. Highly unlikely, but possible.

Didn't realize that DVC could restrict resale owners to a different booking window over direct. That makes even resale a hard pass for me.

 

[crvetter]

I can't see that that would make sense as the whole point of doing it would be to prevent all rooms being booked up at 11 months. If they granfather almost no point in doing it.

Correct though the whole thing is really just marketing. They tell people (direct buyers) what they did making them happy and grandfathering in owners they make the current resale owners less pissed.

 

[Frederic Civish]

I really could see Riviera become the first resort where it becomes commonplace to Walk the reservations for many months at a time.

 

[Sandisw]

I think Riviera is going to be a winner in many ways. It is beautiful. I like the skyliner access, and it seems like Disney has done a first rate job.

However, there are some potential problems. Biggest one - and this WILL affect EVERYONE who owns there - is the restrictions on resales. I had $25,000 saved in the bank as a down payment on some points at Riviera. I was going to buy. I told everyone I was going to buy. But then Disney announced their very idiotic restrictions and I pulled the plug.

What is the problem with the Resale Restrictions? One obvious thing is that, if you need to sell for some reason, you are probably not going to get as good a return on your resale, compared to some other properties. BUT THAT ISN'T THE BIGGEST PROBLEM. Here is the big problem: Over time, there WILL be resales at Riviera, and every one of those people will be locked into Riviera and ONLY Riviera. Imagine a time comes when 10% or even 20% of the owners are resale owners.

Now, look at it from the point of view of those resale owners, who can't go anywhere else. They will know that there will be NOTHING available after the 7 month window, because other DVC owners will be jumping in to reserve Riviera rooms. This means that those Riviera Resale Owners, who are now second class citizens in DVC like never before, will absolutely HAVE TO BOOK THEIR ROOMS DURING THE 7 TO 11 MONTH WINDOW. Even if they don't know their travel dates. Even if they don't plan to go that year. Sure, they can bank their points and use them, at Riviera, next year, but then when they bank their points for the following year, eventually, they are going to need to use them, or lose them. In order not to lose them, they will book early early early, so they can get a decent unit before all the Studios are snapped up. AND, if they can't use them, they will rent them out, which also means trying to get the most attractive units and seasons for their renters. Riviera will become perhaps the most rented DVC property, since many of the owners won't be able to use it, and won't have the access to other properties. Anyway, between the resale owners being motivated to reserve EARLY, either for themselves or for their renters, this will put greatly increased pressure on EVERYONE, including the other 90% or 80% of people who own Direct, and they will also have to start reserving very early, in order to make sure they get anything at all. My prediction is that the average reservation at Riviera will be done significantly earlier in the 11 month window than ANY other resort, on an average.

So, imagine yourself as a Direct owner. You weren't quite sure of your travel dates, so you didn't book at the crack of dawn on the 11 month window opening. Now it is 10 months out. There are no Tower studios available, of course. There are no Standard view studios available. There probably aren't even any Preferred View Studios, by the time you reach 10 months. All that you might be able to find is some 1 bedroom units, Preferred View, and they will cost you a lot more points. A 1 bedroom in the last 2 weeks of February will be 53 points per night on weekdays, and 63 points per night on weekends. Ouch. And those are Preferred View, since even the Standard View 1 bedrooms will also be gone.

Now, maybe I am going to be wrong here, though I can't imagine how. Every Riviera Resale, done by someone else, will decrease the effective quality and usefulness of Riviera for those who ARE NOT reselling.

What do you guys think?

I don’t think you are wrong. However, the language in the RIV contract allows them to put in place allowing people to pay money to qualify points.

So one scenario I could see DVC doing is allowing resale owners the option to turn their points per reservation into bookable points elsewhere at 7 months. For example, for $10/pt more, you can book a room at VGF. So, if it costs 100 points, they pay $1k, and use their points.

Obviously, it wouldnt make sense for someone to do it often. But it could happen.

I will say when I bought RIV, I went in thinking exactly what you have and plan to always be an 11 month booker for that exact reason. If what you predict happens...I think it will take a good 5 to 10 years are so to see it having a real effect..then any owner will have to adjust, just as those who try for BWV SV studios have had to.

 

[summerw]

It seems like everyone's covered the cons. I updated the first post in the thread linked below with A LOT of info, including pics of some of the activities, food etc. We bought 100 points because the aesthetics of the resort and convenience of the Skyliner are enough for me.

Official Owners Thread

 

[klcts]

I wanted to thank everyone that replied to my post. We eventually purchased 175 points and are excited to stay there this August (back to school vacation). We went there several times and loved the resort. The great thing about DVC over any other timeshare that there is a resort for everyone. So after reading all the pro's and con's , we decided it fit well for our family. The advice I would give to anyone, before they buy, is just to do there research and go with what works for you and your family.