Sensors on ECVs

There is another recent report about these sensors - I'm moving your post to that thread.
 
Honestly, the more I hear about this, the more it seems to me that Disney wants to strongly discourage people from renting ECVs from them directly, then if there are issues, they can say, Hey, we offered "SAFER ECVs" that people chose not to rent from us, not our fault.

I put "safer ecvs" in quotes, because these sensors sound extremely dangerous to me and I really hope Disneyland or any of the other theme parks and zoos that use Scooterbug, which is the company that runs Disney's (World and Land), Sea World (San Diego), San Diego Zoo and Safari Park, Universal Studios Hollywood rentals) doesn't follow suit. Yep, when you rent from Disney or any of these other parks you are really renting from Scooterbug, who simply rents space from the applicable parks and rents at a price per day that they agreed with the applicable park to rent at and use the agreement that the applicable park has asked them to use.
 
This really is not fair. I was planning on renting in the park again but now am not. I have back problems and dont need the ecv causing me more problems. Why doesnt Disney do something to discourage the people who walk in front of scooters, even when they see one coming. Or how about people who run in the park and almost end up in a scooter driver’s lap? Ugh.
 
This really is not fair. I was planning on renting in the park again but now am not. I have back problems and dont need the ecv causing me more problems. Why doesnt Disney do something to discourage the people who walk in front of scooters, even when they see one coming. Or how about people who run in the park and almost end up in a scooter driver’s lap? Ugh.
Exactly why I say this is dangerous, I think off-site is definitely the way to go for everyone now and figure out a way to transport it if necessary.
 
Honestly, the more I hear about this, the more it seems to me that Disney wants to strongly discourage people from renting ECVs from them directly, then if there are issues, they can say, Hey, we offered "SAFER ECVs" that people chose not to rent from us, not our fault.

I put "safer ecvs" in quotes, because these sensors sound extremely dangerous to me and I really hope Disneyland or any of the other theme parks and zoos that use Scooterbug, which is the company that runs Disney's (World and Land), Sea World (San Diego), San Diego Zoo and Safari Park, Universal Studios Hollywood rentals) doesn't follow suit. Yep, when you rent from Disney or any of these other parks you are really renting from Scooterbug, who simply rents space from the applicable parks and rents at a price per day that they agreed with the applicable park to rent at and use the agreement that the applicable park has asked them to use.

This really is not fair. I was planning on renting in the park again but now am not. I have back problems and dont need the ecv causing me more problems. Why doesnt Disney do something to discourage the people who walk in front of scooters, even when they see one coming. Or how about people who run in the park and almost end up in a scooter driver’s lap? Ugh.

Exactly why I say this is dangerous, I think off-site is definitely the way to go for everyone now and figure out a way to transport it if necessary.
I'm going out on a limb here but I'll make a prediction based on my observations of how the mindset, or lack thereof, operates at Disney.
I can see Disney requiring all ECV providers to put the same worthless sensors on their scooters as Disney has put on theirs and claim it's for the "safety" of pedestrians.
Since that would be an expensive proposition for the scooter rental agencies many, if not all, will tell Disney to pound sand.
In which case Disney will have cornered, and control of, the lucrative ECV rental market within their parks.
Remember, Disney does nothing unless it generates cash income, or eliminates cash outflow.
 
I'm going out on a limb here but I'll make a prediction based on my observations of how the mindset, or lack thereof, operates at Disney.
I can see Disney requiring all ECV providers to put the same worthless sensors on their scooters as Disney has put on theirs and claim it's for the "safety" of pedestrians.
Since that would be an expensive proposition for the scooter rental agencies many, if not all, will tell Disney to pound sand.
In which case Disney will have cornered, and control of, the lucrative ECV rental market within their parks.
Remember, Disney does nothing unless it generates cash income, or eliminates cash outflow.
Here's the problem, Disney has no control over what other companies do. They could require it to be on the list of companies that can use bell services, but they have absolutely zero control over companies like Gold Mobility who already has proven better than any of the "Featured Providers" numerous times over, so I doubt outside companies would give into such demands unless they want to remain a featured provider. And Disney can't say you can't bring your own ECV in because it doesn't have the sensors.

And Disney is well aware of this, no I really think this is about trying to avoid lawsuits and claim they aren't liable for any accidents with ECVs.

The reality is you won't see anything changing for the non featured providers other than them getting more business than the featured providers if Disney insists that the featured providers put these sensors in.

This also means that of they insisted on featured providers putting the sensors in, the featured providers would tell them to pound sand and Disney would loose out on whatever kickbacks they get (and make no mistake they get something for listing companies as a featured provider), so they would loose money there, so I don't think they would even try to go that route as they would loose a ton of money.

Disney also doesn't really want to rent ECVs, otherwise they would rent them out then elves rather than leasing space to a third party company for the daily rentals and they know there are many people who need them at the resorts, not just the parks, so no, I don't see Disney trying to require sensors.
 
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Here's the problem, Disney has no control over what other companies do. They could require it to be on the list of companies that can use bell services, but they have absolutely zero control over companies like Gold Mobility who already has proven better than any of the "Featured Providers" numerous times over, so I doubt outside companies would give into such demands unless they want to remain a featured provider. And Disney can't say you can't bring your own ECV in because it doesn't have the sensors.

And Disney is well aware of this, no I really think this is about trying to avoid lawsuits and claim they aren't liable for any accidents with ECVs.

The reality is you won't see anything changing for the non featured providers other than them getting more business than the featured providers if Disney insists that the featured providers put these sensors in.

This also means that of they insisted on featured providers putting the sensors in, the featured providers would tell them to pound sand and Disney would loose out on whatever kickbacks they get (and make no mistake they get something for listing companies as a featured provider), so they would loose money there, so I don't think they would even try to go that route as they would loose a ton of money.

Disney also doesn't really want to rent ECVs, otherwise they would rent them out then elves rather than leasing space to a third party company for the daily rentals and they know there are many people who need them at the resorts, not just the parks, so no, I don't see Disney trying to require sensors.
Yup.....
But I believe that Disney underestimated the demand for ECV's and didn't get into the market with the idea of it being a long term moneymaker.
Now they see how many outside vendors have been raking in money by giving the guests reliable, comfortable, and fairly priced ECV's as opposed to WDW's beat to "H", uncomfortable, hard to maneuver, tanks that they rent out to first come first served guests.
Disney is nothing if not in business to make as much money from the guests as possible and allowing them to continue to rent ECV's from outside providers does nothing for their bottom line.
l think they should rename the place "Wallet Disney World."
 


Yup.....
But I believe that Disney underestimated the demand for ECV's and didn't get into the market with the idea of it being a long term moneymaker.
Now they see how many outside vendors have been raking in money by giving the guests reliable, comfortable, and fairly priced ECV's as opposed to WDW's beat to "H", uncomfortable, hard to maneuver, tanks that they rent out to first come first served guests.
Disney is nothing if not in business to make as much money from the guests as possible and allowing them to continue to rent ECV's from outside providers does nothing for their bottom line.
l think they should rename the place "Wallet Disney World."
As I said, there is nothing they can legally do to stop or restrict outside vendors from renting ECVs, so it really doesn't matter if they want to stop them, they can't.
 
As I said, there is nothing they can legally do to stop or restrict outside vendors from renting ECVs, so it really doesn't matter if they want to stop them, they can't.

You are right - they can't stop any rental company from doing business, and renting a scooter to anyone who wants one, and who meets that company's rental requirements.

But remember that at the end of the day, it's their playground, their rules; Disney World Resort is still private property, and still retains the legal ability to say what is allowed, and what isn't within the boundaries of DWR property & compliance of the ADA. *If* Disney were to decide to do this (and I'm not saying that they are - or will - but they could) it would impact a *lot* of people, including a great many of us here who own devices.

(I found this: from the DOJ "Wheelchairs, Mobility Aids, and Other Power-Driven Mobility Devices" where it clearly states that an entity does not have to allow certain types of devices because of "legitimate safety concerns"; until there is a legal precedent regarding devices equipped with these sensors, we should assume that Disney has the right and the ability to restrict devices on their property, based on safety concerns alone.)

Disney *could* legally say "No electrically operated/battery powered personal mobility devices are allowed on Disney World Resort property unless they have collision avoidance sensors installed", thereby forcing *everyone* - regardless of whether they rent or own - to have those sensors installed prior to entering Disney property and using the device.

°o° °o° °o° °o° °o° °o° °o° °o°

I understand why they are putting out the sensor-enabled rental units; there are far too many stories of people who have been hit (and sometimes injured) by people driving ECVs who either shouldn't be (due to health/vision/competence issues) or who simply don't care (due to self-entitled thinking/inattentiveness/distracted driving while using cell phone). What no one has apparently considered is the *thousands* of Disney World Guests who consistently safely and competently pilot an ECV (rented, or self-owned) around the grounds for days without so much as a hiccup. I believe that it is a relatively small subset of the Guest population that causes the majority of the problems, and while I don't have a quick or easy solution to the problem, I do know that these sensors will likely not "cure" the problem - ultimately, it will simply shift it over to the rental sector, where it will likely drive up costs and result in mandatory insurance with every rental.

My personal feeling is that putting the sensors on the Parks rental units is a direct response to Disney's insurance company telling them that they will no longer pay out for injuries/damage caused by those rentals until Disney tries to mitigate the possibility of damage - in this case, by installing the sensors.

Regardless, however, this will ultimately effect us all, one way or the other. It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out; while they may have prevented forward collisions, we can already see that it is a distinct possibility that other Guests will be injured running into the back of these (suddenly slowed) units. Not to mention the number of people who are going to be very angry with Disney World over the slow and clumsy performance of a rental unit that is more expensive.
 
Disney *could* legally say "No electrically operated/battery powered personal mobility devices are allowed on Disney World Resort property unless they have collision avoidance sensors installed", thereby forcing *everyone* - regardless of whether they rent or own - to have those sensors installed prior to entering Disney property and using the device.

Actually, they can't, there is legal precedent set here, oddly enough during the lawsuit involving people having wanted to use Segways as a mobility devices. The lawsuit stated that Segways were not commonly recognized as mobility devices, ECVs are and as such cannot be restricted.

You even went on to explain precisely why Disney wouldn't be allowed to say motorized devices couldn't be allowed without the sensors because:
What no one has apparently considered is the *thousands* of Disney World Guests who consistently safely and competently pilot an ECV (rented, or self-owned) around the grounds for days without so much as a hiccup.

This alone means that Disney cannot cite safety concerns to prevent ECVs without sensors.

So, no they wouldn't be able to prevent them, despite it being private property as it would violate ADA. Again, legal precedent is already set here.

Ultimately, those that do rent the scooters with the sensors will end up liking lawsuits because they got injured by then suddenly slowing down or stopping and Disney will have to give up on the sensors since they are so dangerous.
 
Sort of related question..... My husband will be renting an ECV on an as needed basis for our next trip to WDW. Since we drive to the parks (Disney buses do not work for our DD) we had planned on just renting the scooter at the parks. These reports about the sensors are scaring me. So far they are only being used at MK, correct? Will outside scooters deliver to a theme park? I am thinking about renting one from an outside company just for the Magic Kingdom IF the the other parks haven't added the sensors by May 1st, our arrival day.
 
Sort of related question..... My husband will be renting an ECV on an as needed basis for our next trip to WDW. Since we drive to the parks (Disney buses do not work for our DD) we had planned on just renting the scooter at the parks. These reports about the sensors are scaring me. So far they are only being used at MK, correct? Will outside scooters deliver to a theme park? I am thinking about renting one from an outside company just for the Magic Kingdom IF the the other parks haven't added the sensors by May 1st, our arrival day.
Personally at this point, I would rent one off-site that can be broken down and out into the car. If you are renting a car, then the savings you will have by renting off-site could be used to upgrade the rental car and you know you want have to deal with the sensors mess. Unless you need a heavy duty scooter, it should be easy to find one that will fit in the car. Gold Mobility's smaller scooter will.

I also think you are right to be worried about the sensors, they really seem dangerous.
 
Personally at this point, I would rent one off-site that can be broken down and out into the car. If you are renting a car, then the savings you will have by renting off-site could be used to upgrade the rental car and you know you want have to deal with the sensors mess. Unless you need a heavy duty scooter, it should be easy to find one that will fit in the car. Gold Mobility's smaller scooter will.

I also think you are right to be worried about the sensors, they really seem dangerous.

We need a heavy duty scooter. Just hoping the sensors have been improved and the quirks worked out by our trip in 37 days. MK is one of the parks I suspect we will need a scooter in.
 
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We need a heavy duty scooter. Just hoping the sensors have been improved and the quirks worked out by our trip in 37 days. MK is one of the parks I suspect we will need a scooter in.
There are some heavy duty that break down.
 
I am wondering why they have decided to put these sensors on the ECVs in the first place. Where they getting a bunch of complaints about people being hit by them? I like the idea of the sensors IF they can get them to work in such a crowded area without constantly stopping for no reason. I have a bit of a concern with the speed that some of these ECVs get up to going down hills. The one leaving Epcot by spaceship Earth and also the bridge on the way to Epcot from the beach club are steep enough for the ECV to gain a lot of speed. Those have been the only places that I have been close to being ran into by one.
 
(I found this: from the DOJ "Wheelchairs, Mobility Aids, and Other Power-Driven Mobility Devices" where it clearly states that an entity does not have to allow certain types of devices because of "legitimate safety concerns"; until there is a legal precedent regarding devices equipped with these sensors, we should assume that Disney has the right and the ability to restrict devices on their property, based on safety concerns alone.)

Disney *could* legally say "No electrically operated/battery powered personal mobility devices are allowed on Disney World Resort property unless they have collision avoidance sensors installed", thereby forcing *everyone* - regardless of whether they rent
Certain types of devices, sure - but specifically-equipped devices, not so much. This would prohibit anyone with their own device from entering the parks - and you know Disney won't do that!

These reports about the sensors are scaring me. So far they are only being used at MK, correct?
Correct.
Will outside scooters deliver to a theme park?
Unlikely, but you can ask. If they delivered to a theme park, they have no way to locate a customer with a "missing" device. But certainly ask.
I am wondering why they have decided to put these sensors on the ECVs in the first place
No proof, just my opinion, but I think it's in direct result to the one or two lawsuits who were injured by other guests, who had rented them from WDW.

While I was looking for information on these couple of suits, I came across some interesting reading: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_at_Walt_Disney_World and (removed because source is banned
 
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As a longtime ECV user, I am not completely against sensors but I’m very uncomfortable with the sensor settings on the MK ECVs. The sudden jolt and slow rebound time (meanIng the time it takes to be able to return to regular speed) are both extreme.

There needs to be a happy medium but I don’t expect that to happen for a long time.
 
As a longtime ECV user, I am not completely against sensors but I’m very uncomfortable with the sensor settings on the MK ECVs. The sudden jolt and slow rebound time (meanIng the time it takes to be able to return to regular speed) are both extreme.

There needs to be a happy medium but I don’t expect that to happen for a long time.
I don't like sensors that take control away from the driver. I think some sort of feedback to the driver would be appropriate, ideally vibration, as light or sound could take away from various themed elements in the dark and could actually be dangerous is some situations.
 
I don't like sensors that take control away from the driver. I think some sort of feedback to the driver would be appropriate, ideally vibration, as light or sound could take away from various themed elements in the dark and could actually be dangerous is some situations.
I can see others bumping into a sudden stopping scooter as they are not expecting it to stop. how would someone be able to leave any show without it stopping all the way I can see someone stuck behind a scooter doing this just getting mad a shoving it along
 
I can see others bumping into a sudden stopping scooter as they are not expecting it to stop. how would someone be able to leave any show without it stopping all the way I can see someone stuck behind a scooter doing this just getting mad a shoving it along
Exactly, which is why feedback is better than taking control in my opinion and the sensors should also be able to be turned off by the driver.
 

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