Should Doctors Have Their Student Loans Cleared?

tvguy

Question anything the facts don't support.
Joined
Dec 15, 2003
My mother retired a couple of years ago after 50 years as a nurse- half in the OR half on the floor. She never had a needle stick or cut by a scalpel. Body fluids sure but she had the appropriate ppe - something that is lacking in many hospitals during the covid virus.
She was lucky for sure. But is she was in the OR she was exposed to anesthetic gases on a regular basis. Not aware of PPE's that will protect from a saturation of bodily fluids.
 

daisy2013

Mouseketeer
Joined
Jun 25, 2018
She was lucky for sure. But is she was in the OR she was exposed to anesthetic gases on a regular basis. Not aware of PPE's that will protect from a saturation of bodily fluids.
That’s why OR have ventilation systems, the machines are checked and serviced regularly and there are procedures in place to prevent anesthetic gases from leaking into the OR. It would suck to have operating personnel getting light headed because of anesthesia in the air.
 

tvguy

Question anything the facts don't support.
Joined
Dec 15, 2003
That’s why OR have ventilation systems, the machines are checked and serviced regularly and there are procedures in place to prevent anesthetic gases from leaking into the OR. It would suck to have operating personnel getting light headed because of anesthesia in the air.
No such thing in 1946 when my mom graduated from nursing school. They used to have a floater come in to relieve them to get fresh air.
 
  • tex1989

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 13, 2018
    I respect Doctors and Nurses and the job they do everyday. But then again I respect everyone who works hard, does the right things and trys to improve themselves and those around them everyday. I want to see no child left behind, and no one go to bed hungry ever. That being said being fortunate enough to have earned a degree in finance and economics all those years ago I learned something that I think about everyday in the world we live in. Money not unlike many other things is a finite and limited resource. Therfore it has to be allocated or rather the spending of it has to be allocated. This is where the rub comes in. Some have to much, some have to little, some earned theirs other were given theirs. So at the end of the day who deserves the limited resource more than the next person? It is the allocation of the scares resources of the world that drives all conflict on the planet. Who deserves it, who earned it, who taxed it, how do they spend it? If everyone had all they needed it would be worthless.

    Deep stuff for a Monday night huh?
     

    marthachick

    Traveling Mom
    Joined
    Feb 14, 2005
    Just forgive all student loans. And I say that as someone who has already paid off all of my $70k-ish in student loans.
    All loans? For everyone? No way! Plan to pay your own loans or don’t take them out! No one is owed a “free” education. Totally ridiculous. We already pay enough taxes for people who don’t want to pay their own way. We don’t need more!
     
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    Pea-n-Me

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jul 18, 2004
    ^ Conditions have changed in hospitals since the 60s and 70s. Lots more safety measures in place.

    I am working directly with Covid patients in the ICU. Nurses and doctors are fatigued and stressed beyond previously known limits, but we’re making the best of it. Support from the public is lifting our spirits, for sure.

    Where I am we have not gotten a penny beyond our normal pay. Not sure where all theses bonuses are coming from. (But please do let me know! :laughing:)

    It is hard to describe how it is being alone in a room with a critically ill Covid patient (or in many cases even a non-critically ill Covid patient). Only RNs generally enter the rooms; non-licensed caregivers mostly only help outside the rooms (at least where I am). This weekend, however, one came in a room with me for a few minutes to help me turn a patient. After that experience she refused to go in again. Normally in a hospital, nurses have help with direct care. These days we are in there alone, maybe with another nurse if lucky. My patient had severe pneumonia with a very junky, frequent cough. It is scary if you think about it too much, so you try to just concentrate on the tasks at hand. Not saying that other essential employees aren’t much appreciated, but not sure you can really compare truck drivers and drive through attendants to nurses who are the only frontline caregivers who are in the rooms with these patients, who are completely dependent on us, continuously for their entire shifts. Just saying.

    Would not favor loan forgiveness for reasons others have mentioned.

    I actually thought this admiration period we’re in might attract more people to the nursing profession. But a pp might be right the more I think about it, some might want no part of the chaos our lives have become with this.
     
  • low-key

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 8, 2011
    I am for everyone getting what hey could get. But keep in mind if its for thier curageous great work thru the covid 19, ok, that would be nice, but like ehre in Ohio, they stopped admitting people to Hospitol for all the covid patience, that never come, and nurses and Doctors are now being layed off, cause of all the empty rooms, so maybe it should be on a regional basis
     

    mummabear

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 2, 2012
    Because of COVID? No.
    I do think governments need to look at options for forgiving chunks of student loans to direct the help where it is needed. For example here in NZ GPs are desperately needed in rural towns, so my proposal is at then end of every year completed on this area they get a lump sum paid off their debt.
     

    tvguy

    Question anything the facts don't support.
    Joined
    Dec 15, 2003
    Because of COVID? No.
    I do think governments need to look at options for forgiving chunks of student loans to direct the help where it is needed. For example here in NZ GPs are desperately needed in rural towns, so my proposal is at then end of every year completed on this area they get a lump sum paid off their debt.
    Looking at the numbers here in the U.S. starting pay for a GP is $86,000 a year more than I make with 40 years in my job. Average GP student loan debt is $210,000. Just looking at the numbers they should be able to pay off that debt in 3 years. So no, I don't think they should have their student debt forgiven. Now, incentives like free housing if they chose to move to an area where they are needed and their specialty is in short supply, that is fine. They are rewarded for the time they spend there while they are there. Forgiving their student debt rewards them for life, including periods of time where they are highly compensated and are not still working in an area with a shortage.
     

    BuckeyeBama

    You are stronger than you think.
    Joined
    May 29, 2013
    Looking at the numbers here in the U.S. starting pay for a GP is $86,000 a year more than I make with 40 years in my job. Average GP student loan debt is $210,000. Just looking at the numbers they should be able to pay off that debt in 3 years. So no, I don't think they should have their student debt forgiven. Now, incentives like free housing if they chose to move to an area where they are needed and their specialty is in short supply, that is fine. They are rewarded for the time they spend there while they are there. Forgiving their student debt rewards them for life, including periods of time where they are highly compensated and are not still working in an area with a shortage.
    It is a very common practice in America that a doctor's student loans are paid off by a practice when they join in an area of the country where it is difficult to attract young doctors. There is generally a time commitment to the practice involved. We have two dotors in our family who have had their student loans paid off in this way - both went to work in small, rural communities (one in PA, the other in OH).

    Generally, working in communities like this means making a lot less than they could make in big cities, but the lifestyle is often worth the trade-off if that is your thing. Very different reward system.
     
  • tvguy

    Question anything the facts don't support.
    Joined
    Dec 15, 2003
    It is a very common practice in America that a doctor's student loans are paid off by a practice when they join in an area of the country where it is difficult to attract young doctors. There is generally a time commitment to the practice involved. We have two dotors in our family who have had their student loans paid off in this way - both went to work in small, rural communities (one in PA, the other in OH).

    Generally, working in communities like this means making a lot less than they could make in big cities, but the lifestyle is often worth the trade-off if that is your thing. Very different reward system.
    I have no issue if there is a time commitment included.
     

    nkereina

    Last chance to lose your keys.
    Joined
    Feb 11, 2009
    They are the ones that can actually afford their loans.
    Medical school is not cheap. Also, many student loan payments are based on income. My friend is a doctor and has well over six figures in student loan debt. Her monthly payment is based on a calculation of her income, so even though she makes over six figures, her payment is proportionate to her income. No different than a payment someone making $50K a year would have to make, based on their income. So even though doctors often make a lot of money, it doesn't necessarily mean they can pay their loans off easier than anyone else. But all of this said, I don't think the loans should be forgiven for them or in any case, really. College is a choice, savings plans are a choice, schools are a choice. There are a lot of ways to mitigate potential loan debt prior to incurring it.
     

    BuckeyeBama

    You are stronger than you think.
    Joined
    May 29, 2013
    I have no issue if there is a time commitment included.
    Since the practice is paying for it, they need time from the doctor to make up for it. Seems like a fair trade to me - time for money. That is what we all trade in our work lives - time for money.
     

    Pea-n-Me

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jul 18, 2004
    Looking at the numbers here in the U.S. starting pay for a GP is $86,000 a year more than I make with 40 years in my job. Average GP student loan debt is $210,000. Just looking at the numbers they should be able to pay off that debt in 3 years. So no, I don't think they should have their student debt forgiven. Now, incentives like free housing if they chose to move to an area where they are needed and their specialty is in short supply, that is fine. They are rewarded for the time they spend there while they are there. Forgiving their student debt rewards them for life, including periods of time where they are highly compensated and are not still working in an area with a shortage.
    Holy oversimplification, Batman!
    Medical school is not cheap. Also, many student loan payments are based on income. My friend is a doctor and has well over six figures in student loan debt. Her monthly payment is based on a calculation of her income, so even though she makes over six figures, her payment is proportionate to her income. No different than a payment someone making $50K a year would have to make, based on their income. So even though doctors often make a lot of money, it doesn't necessarily mean they can pay their loans off easier than anyone else. But all of this said, I don't think the loans should be forgiven for them or in any case, really. College is a choice, savings plans are a choice, schools are a choice. There are a lot of ways to mitigate potential loan debt prior to incurring it.
    Yes. They also work a crapload of hours for very little pay for the first five years or more of their post-medical school lives, depending on specialty. And it is hugely stressful. Most are probably not in a good position to start knocking down their debt at that point. They still have to live - pay rent, utilities, have a functional car, eat, etc. Some even have families and children to support. It’s not life on Easy Street that some imagine. Suicide rates have increased and many are disillusioned and leaving the profession since the institution of electronic medical systems since that complicates their professional lives so much that they wind up having to spend a couple of hours at home nightly finishing that day’s documentation, which leads to burnout, something that physicians' organizations are looking at very closely now.


     

    Moliphino

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jun 29, 2016
    All loans? For everyone? No way! Plan to pay your own loans or don’t take them out! No one is owed a “free” education. Totally ridiculous. We already pay enough taxes for people who don’t want to pay their own way. We don’t need more!
    I'd much rather bail out the American people than corporations and banks. I also think public colleges and universities should be free/nearly free for American citizens.
     

    Nox

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Mar 11, 2019
    I think if there is any loan forgiveness program it shouldn’t be associated with COVID. There are important medical staff in all different areas of medicine just as deserving, and were before all of this began.
    This.

    To be clear: I'm not opposed to loan forgiveness for medical professionals. There are programs for forgiveness for other important professions - such as a set amount of reduction on some federal loans for teachers after working for a number of years. This is because teaching is a very important, very needed job.

    I am of the belief that this should be offered for many professions that are desperately needed. But that was the case before COVID, too. There are many medical professionals who are not "on the front lines" of COVID, but whose contribution to medicine throughout their careers are still significant and needed.
     

    Nox

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Mar 11, 2019
    I agree. We scrimped and saved like crazy to put our two kids thru college with no loans, it's a slap in the face at this point to us to forgive everyone's loans. How about if you repay me the money we spent?
    That's ridiculous.

    Good for you, you had the funds to put your kids through college. That's a slap in the face to those who were lucky if their parents could even afford to put food on the table.

    I didn't pay a single cent for my education because I worked hard for the multiple scholarships that covered everything. Maybe your kids should have worked harder so you didn't have to pay.

    Consider yourself fortunate that you could afford to put your kids through college and that they could pursue higher education without debt. Not everyone is that fortunate, and it isn't some attack on your privilege to assist other people who are trying to put themselves in a better position. Another person having their debt forgiven just puts them on the same level as your debt-free child. One just happened to be lucky that their parents were in a better position than the other's.
     
    Joined
    Oct 23, 2015
    I'd much rather bail out the American people than corporations and banks. I also think public colleges and universities should be free/nearly free for American citizens.
    I'm with ya on bailing people vs corporations but I don't agree with colleges being free or nearly free especially by virtue of being a citizen or not.

    I believe in fair enough tuition, I believe in incentivizing colleges to not raise their tuition to bridge the gap between state assistance and their budgets (which is a main reason colleges raised tuition in my state in the last 10 years as an astonishing amount of money year after year was taken from them). I believe in reviewing book costs and book buyback programs. I don't really know where the money would come from in order to make tuition free or nearly free. Would part of the cost shift towards charging higher tuition (than already is charged) for international students? That's no good IMO, nor is taxing even more to people.
     





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