Should Doctors Have Their Student Loans Cleared?

I've long thought that people who go into public service type positions should get loans forgiven....that might mean teachers, lawyers who become public defenders, doctors who work in underserved communities. I would not give a pass to people who join the high buck end of a profession, such as lawyers in private practice, doctors who practice in wealthy communities for big bucks, etc. I think we need to do everything we can to encourage people to serve the underserved. It's very difficult to enter one of these professions which require advanced degrees (and make no mistake, most teachers now must have a masters level degree pretty quickly) and often crippling student loans, and then expect them to work in the areas with the most pressing need (which can often afford to pay the least).

In the US, for qualifying federal student loans, there is the Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) program, see https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service . PSLF has loan forgiveness that is NOT taxable after 10 years of qualifying repayment.

If one's occupation doesn't qualify but the loan type does, there are other Income-Driven Repayment Plans, which have loan forgiveness (which currently IS taxable) after 20 or 25 years depending on the type of loan. See https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/repayment/plans/income-driven

There are also some other types of loan forgiveness programs for certain specific occupations.
 
What about bus drivers, grocery store clerks etc. ?

My sister works as a pharmacy assistant in a pharmacy located in a major grocery store, which is part of a major national chain.

The grocery chain is paying all of its employees an extra $2 per hour starting early March and has recently extended the end date for it.

Some other grocery chains in Canada are doing the same and some have also added an extra flat amount per month (e.g. $50 or $200), or some similar combination -- basically, end result is that their employees are being paid extra to be working during the covid time period.

SW
 
That's ridiculous.

Good for you, you had the funds to put your kids through college. That's a slap in the face to those who were lucky if their parents could even afford to put food on the table.

I didn't pay a single cent for my education because I worked hard for the multiple scholarships that covered everything. Maybe your kids should have worked harder so you didn't have to pay.

Consider yourself fortunate that you could afford to put your kids through college and that they could pursue higher education without debt. Not everyone is that fortunate, and it isn't some attack on your privilege to assist other people who are trying to put themselves in a better position. Another person having their debt forgiven just puts them on the same level as your debt-free child. One just happened to be lucky that their parents were in a better position than the other's.

Parents who help their children financially aren’t necessarily lucky or in a better position to help their children. For some families, helping their children get through College debt free is a priority. It might mean they are scrimping, saving, struggling and having a hard time putting food on the table.
 
Unless Bezos or Bloomberg or some other Billionaire wants to do it as a goodwill gesture then NO. It should NOT come from the government. I mean I would love to have my med school loans gone, but it is not the government's responsibility. Where would that money come from anyways? You and Me.
 


Parents who help their children financially aren’t necessarily lucky or in a better position to help their children. For some families, helping their children get through College debt free is a priority. It might mean they are scrimping, saving, struggling and having a hard time putting food on the table.
Yep - taking out second mortgages or retirement account loans, skipping vacations, choosing to pay for this instead of saving for retirement - the list goes on and on. But, all that said, those decisions made by parents who did what I did don't make me less likely to support helping kids who are graduating from college in this environment.

Total loan forgiveness? Nope - don't support that. But how about making those loans interest free from this day forward. Make the kids pay it back, but stop adding on the additional debt.
 
That's ridiculous.

Good for you, you had the funds to put your kids through college. That's a slap in the face to those who were lucky if their parents could even afford to put food on the table.

I didn't pay a single cent for my education because I worked hard for the multiple scholarships that covered everything. Maybe your kids should have worked harder so you didn't have to pay.

Consider yourself fortunate that you could afford to put your kids through college and that they could pursue higher education without debt. Not everyone is that fortunate, and it isn't some attack on your privilege to assist other people who are trying to put themselves in a better position. Another person having their debt forgiven just puts them on the same level as your debt-free child. One just happened to be lucky that their parents were in a better position than the other's.
Parents who can’t afford to put food on the table can apply for FA, merit scholarships have really dried up, very few full rides anymore. However, I know kids with low income parents who go to college for free.
 
Parents who can’t afford to put food on the table can apply for FA, merit scholarships have really dried up, very few full rides anymore. However, I know kids with low income parents who go to college for free.
The parents who get killed are middle class. Make very little and your kids can go for free (or very close). Make a great deal and you can afford to pay for your kids to go. But the middle class ends up paying for most out of pocket or via loan.
 


I'm with ya on bailing people vs corporations but I don't agree with colleges being free or nearly free especially by virtue of being a citizen or not.

I believe in fair enough tuition, I believe in incentivizing colleges to not raise their tuition to bridge the gap between state assistance and their budgets (which is a main reason colleges raised tuition in my state in the last 10 years as an astonishing amount of money year after year was taken from them). I believe in reviewing book costs and book buyback programs. I don't really know where the money would come from in order to make tuition free or nearly free. Would part of the cost shift towards charging higher tuition (than already is charged) for international students? That's no good IMO, nor is taxing even more to people.
Many colleges were sitting on very large endowments that weren't getting taxed (which changed recently, I believe). While at the same time raising tuitions through the roof and paying themselves handsomely in many cases, leaving students to bear the brunt. It's crazy. And it doesn't appear it will be changing anytime soon. States that have free tuition at state colleges are very fortunate. I even think free tuition at community colleges would help a lot of people get started, if they're lucky enough to live in a state that does that.

In the US, for qualifying federal student loans, there is the Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) program, see https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service . PSLF has loan forgiveness that is NOT taxable after 10 years of qualifying repayment.

If one's occupation doesn't qualify but the loan type does, there are other Income-Driven Repayment Plans, which have loan forgiveness (which currently IS taxable) after 20 or 25 years depending on the type of loan. See https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/repayment/plans/income-driven

There are also some other types of loan forgiveness programs for certain specific occupations.
I have read that these can be very difficult to get, and see through. For instance if you are late on even one payment the forgiveness is jeopardized. Not sure how true it is but that's what I've read.
 
Many colleges were sitting on very large endowments that weren't getting taxed (which changed recently, I believe). While at the same time raising tuitions through the roof and paying themselves handsomely in many cases, leaving students to bear the brunt. It's crazy. And it doesn't appear it will be changing anytime soon. States that have free tuition at state colleges are very fortunate. I even think free tuition at community colleges would help a lot of people get started, if they're lucky enough to live in a state that does that.
Yes I think you're right on the endownment aspect though I would imagine that's on a particular echelon level (could totally completely be wrong about that). It's a bit hard to think about every public college in the U.S. being free or nearly free just don't know where the funds would come for that. I agree it's a nice thing for those who have the option most def.

The community college in my area is partially funded by our property taxes (last year we paid $478 total) but the tuition is low compared to other colleges and well it's a 2 year college vs 4 so in a way that makes sense, in another way while it's considered a decent enough community college it doesn't offer the same opportunities that other colleges can being a 2 year vs 4 year so I'm not sure how much free would make it but It would I think help increase the graduation rate for those who actually intend to graduate with a 2 year degree. I think there are people who see it as a stepping stone though. I took a few courses (french in high school as college credit, math course before college, bio and then the lab) there at the community college but I wasn't going to graduate there at all. I don't know how free tuition is considered for eligibility there honestly for those who live in states that offer that honestly.
 
Yes I think you're right on the endownment aspect though I would imagine that's on a particular echelon level (could totally completely be wrong about that). It's a bit hard to think about every public college in the U.S. being free or nearly free just don't know where the funds would come for that. I agree it's a nice thing for those who have the option most def.

The community college in my area is partially funded by our property taxes (last year we paid $478 total) but the tuition is low compared to other colleges and well it's a 2 year college vs 4 so in a way that makes sense, in another way while it's considered a decent enough community college it doesn't offer the same opportunities that other colleges can being a 2 year vs 4 year so I'm not sure how much free would make it but It would I think help increase the graduation rate for those who actually intend to graduate with a 2 year degree. I think there are people who see it as a stepping stone though. I took a few courses (french in high school as college credit, math course before college, bio and then the lab) there at the community college but I wasn't going to graduate there at all. I don't know how free tuition is considered for eligibility there honestly for those who live in states that offer that honestly.
Yes, I think it's a great way to get electives done, especially if pre-arranged with a four year college transfer in mind. Most states have reciprocation agreements now where four year schools at most can only require students to take two additional courses before they enter, even if the program of study requirements have changed. But the important part is having an agreement in place. And getting past it being a CC. As a society we've become very picky about where and how we attend college.
 
I'm with ya on bailing people vs corporations but I don't agree with colleges being free or nearly free especially by virtue of being a citizen or not.

I believe in fair enough tuition, I believe in incentivizing colleges to not raise their tuition to bridge the gap between state assistance and their budgets (which is a main reason colleges raised tuition in my state in the last 10 years as an astonishing amount of money year after year was taken from them). I believe in reviewing book costs and book buyback programs. I don't really know where the money would come from in order to make tuition free or nearly free. Would part of the cost shift towards charging higher tuition (than already is charged) for international students? That's no good IMO, nor is taxing even more to people.

Most other developed countries manage to have free or very low higher education costs, so I don't see why we couldn't also. Same with universal healthcare.
 
Most other developed countries manage to have free or very low higher education costs, so I don't see why we couldn't also. Same with universal healthcare.
Why is that the go to answer as if that's what everyone is talking about?

Obviously other countries have it. And they have ways to pay for it. I think everyone is quite aware that different things work in different countries it's never a 1 size fits all ever. I was discussing our country and the ways it would work here with how it would become free and the ramifications of doing so to make it only for citizens of our country.
 
Most other developed countries manage to have free or very low higher education costs, so I don't see why we couldn't also. Same with universal healthcare.
There's no such thing as free. They pay for it every day. Value Added Tax (VAT) ranges from 17-27% in the EU. It's 20% in Great Britain.
 
Many colleges were sitting on very large endowments that weren't getting taxed (which changed recently, I believe). While at the same time raising tuitions through the roof and paying themselves handsomely in many cases, leaving students to bear the brunt. It's crazy. And it doesn't appear it will be changing anytime soon. States that have free tuition at state colleges are very fortunate. I even think free tuition at community colleges would help a lot of people get started, if they're lucky enough to live in a state that does that.


I have read that these can be very difficult to get, and see through. For instance if you are late on even one payment the forgiveness is jeopardized. Not sure how true it is but that's what I've read.

My understanding for the income-dependent repayment plans is that many people qualify and there are a lot more people out there that would qualify but have not applied and may not even know they exist or that they would qualify. Qualifying for them is pretty straightforward and the information needed to understand what is required is available for free on the Department of Education website.

To my understanding the primary challenge with the PSLF program right now is that many people have applied for forgiveness without having understood the requirements -- so they thought they were eligible, but their loans were the wrong kind [they have to be federal direct loans] or they were in the wrong kind of payment program [only certain payment programs qualify] or their employment was not the right kind to qualify. So there has been a high rejection rate of people applying for forgiveness under it [in the last while is when the first people became eligible as the first 10 year clocks hit 10 years]. People who have all their ducks in a row are being approved, but there are many who do not and so there are a lot of rejections. There are also now some class action lawsuits against the government and loan servicers as for example some people were not told by their loan servicer they needed to change the payment program they were in or to consolidate their loans into Direct loans, even though the servicer knew the person was going for PSLF forgiveness.

The other IDR programs don't depend on a certain type of employment, they require the right loan type and the right number of payments (20 or 25 years worth) in the right type of payment plan. Now, since these plans are income-based, if one's income is high enough relative to the amount of student loans you may end up paying back the full loan before you hit the end of the 20/25 year clock, in which case there is nothing to forgive.

Being late on a payment doesn't jeopardize the forgiveness, but will incur late charges. According to the Master Promissory Note (MPN) I signed for my most recent Direct loans in 2009, default for missed payments doesn't happen until "(2) I do not make installment payments when due, provided my failure has persisted for at least 270 days". So not a single missed payment. Even if one ends up in default there are methods to get back on track.

SW
 
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In theory it was a good idea, but according to Forbes 99% of these were rejected at the end of the ten year period. Source. I would be very leery of this program.

In the initial round of applicants, "Over 28,000 borrowers applied for forgiveness, and only 96 succeeded. According to Federal Student Aid, an office of the Dept of Education, 70% of those applicants just flat out didn’t qualify because the requirements were clearly not met. The Dept couldn’t evaluate another 28% because the applications were not totally complete." Source: https://www.studentloanplanner.com/pslf-first-borrowers/ This article is from a company that provides student loan planning advice (they have free advice on their website and they also have a paid service) and does a good job of discussing why there were likely so many failed applications. It isn't necessarily the program that is the issue per se, but rather in many casses likely a misunderstanding of the program's requirements.
 
To the OP's question, I think retention/hazard/bonus/OT pay to those directly doing the work makes more sense and is more equitable, although would ultimately be up to individual employers so some would get it while others at other employers would not.
 
My understanding for the income-dependent repayment plans is that many people qualify and there are a lot more people out there that would qualify but have not applied and may not even know they exist or that they would qualify. Qualifying for them is pretty straightforward and the information needed to understand what is required is available for free on the Department of Education website.

To my understanding the primary challenge with the PSLF program right now is that many people have applied for forgiveness without having understood the requirements -- so they thought they were eligible, but their loans were the wrong kind [they have to be federal direct loans] or they were in the wrong kind of payment program [only certain payment programs qualify] or their employment was not the right kind to qualify. So there has been a high rejection rate of people applying for forgiveness under it [in the last while is when the first people became eligible as the first 10 year clocks hit 10 years]. People who have all their ducks in a row are being approved, but there are many who do not and so there are a lot of rejections. There are also now some class action lawsuits against the government and loan servicers as for example some people were not told by their loan servicer they needed to change the payment program they were in or to consolidate their loans into Direct loans, even though the servicer knew the person was going for PSLF forgiveness.

The other IDR programs don't depend on a certain type of employment, they require the right loan type and the right number of payments (20 or 25 years worth) in the right type of payment plan. Now, since these plans are income-based, if one's income is high enough relative to the amount of student loans you may end up paying back the full loan before you hit the end of the 20/25 year clock, in which case there is nothing to forgive.

Being late on a payment doesn't jeopardize the forgiveness, but will incur late charges. According to the Master Promissory Note (MPN) I signed for my most recent Direct loans in 2009, default for missed payments doesn't happen until "(2) I do not make installment payments when due, provided my failure has persisted for at least 270 days". So not a single missed payment. Even if one ends up in default there are methods to get back on track.

SW
Excellent information, thank you.
 
I think this is largely a feel good proposal. I would rather see a "hazard pay bonus" paid to health care workers who directly cared for COVID19 patients. This could be a flat amount per worker so lower paid workers get proportionally more than higher paid and people that already paid off their loans aren't left out. It can be done the same as the recent $1200 pp government check but it would require some sort of certification of eligibility.
I like this idea.
 

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