"Sleep-Around Points" (SAP) - The Thread

[Sandisw]

3 different UY? Difficult or..."not a problem, barely an inconvenience"?

I wonder if members see any drawbacks in having designated sleep-around points? I'm having trouble identifying any.

For me it hasn’t been too bad, I just treat each one as if it was the only one I have and book on the membership that suits the travel time I want.

It does mean that sometimes I may be borrowing points in one while I have current UY points in another but that is okay since I am traveling a lot now that won’t be an issue.

For example, my June UY has 150 BWV points and I will use those for Food and Wine every year.

It’s been 2 years and working well, of course I wouldn’t recommend it with small memberships or for someone who doesn’t have a good understanding or plan on how to do it,

 

[eMoneyBug]

Hey @montreid ... heh, I know I got that add-on-itis bad! Taking a breath now.

Lemme tell you 'bout the Aulani subsidized contract... 123/217/217 April UY...I found it on "The Resale Market" about a week ago and jumped right on it. I was lucky because it wasn't in their email blast, having somehow fallen through the cracks I guess. I happened to be browsing The Market's full listing and saw it stand out like a sore thumb because it was $110 pp among the Aulani contracts at mid-90s to low-100s. Clicked on the details and it specified "this is a subsidized contract and will save over $17000" in MF over the life of the contract. Put a bid in right away ($95) and asked Jodi, my broker, to let me know right away if there are other bids. I gave her contingency to go up to $105 if seller counters and full price if another bidder was in play. That day, she let me know another bidder was in play and that The Market was going to submit the "best offer" to the seller. "Best Offer" was me at $105, Jodi said the seller wouldn't come down from $110. I re-iterated I can do full price. Now it is awaiting ROFR, which will be waived no doubt since AUL is never ROFRd.

I asked Jodi how often these contracts come up ... she said every few months or so. Interestingly, I did a search in the ROFR thread and it showed a 220 pp subsidized AUL contract found by @marygrcevic :


Keep looking and good luck...and don't hesitate to pay list price. BTW, since entering into contract, I did a Hawaii deed search and saw that the original owner of my contract paid $98 pp in 2011.

How do you do a Hawaii deed search? website + what information do you need to input to search and find that type of information?

 

[emchen]

How do you do a Hawaii deed search? website + what information do you need to input to search and find that type of information?

Googled "honolulu deed search" ==> https://boc.ehawaii.gov/docsearch/search.html

Then searched by last name (seller's) and clicked on my seller's full name next to anything that said "timeshare" or "DVC".

Happy hunting!

 

[emchen]

I've seen this phrase used a handful of times in my short time on this forum but no official thread on it...despite searching the forums. I'll just humbly submit my personal definition:

Points at a DVC resort that are low cost both on a dollar per point ($/pt) basis and maintenance fee per point (MF/pt) basis. These are more important for those of us who require (>4 family members) or simply prefer to book 1-BR+ villas. Why? Because there is still hope in "sleeping-around" in all the other DVC properties at the 7-month booking window.

How would you define it?

Found myself buying another contract for SAP (and it was another Aulani subsidized contract). My first SAP contract was a 200 point SSR resale we purchased 4 yrs ago in 2019. I calculate the 2023 "all-in" cost/pt/yr to be $10.53. Later that same year, I purchased a 217 point Aulani subsidized contract "all-in" cost/pt/yr = $9.43!

This year, I rented out 196 SSR points @ $16/pt and lowered the cost/pt/yr to $10.13. I rented out 175 Aulani points @ $18/pt (also at David's) and lowered my cost to $9.27!

What is the cost/pt/yr of your SAP contract? @Sandisw @eMoneyBug @Wakey @zavandor

 

[Cyberc1978]

Found myself buying another contract for SAP (and it was another Aulani subsidized contract). My first SAP contract was a 200 point SSR resale we purchased 4 yrs ago in 2019. I calculate the 2023 "all-in" cost/pt/yr to be $10.53. Later that same year, I purchased a 217 point Aulani subsidized contract "all-in" cost/pt/yr = $9.43!

This year, I rented out 196 SSR points @ $16/pt and lowered the cost/pt/yr to $10.13. Here's the kicker, I rented out 175 Aulani points @ $18/pt (also at David's) and lowered my cost to $6.87!

What is the cost/pt/yr of your SAP contract? @Sandisw @eMoneyBug @Wakey @zavandor

Wow, I would feel I gave my points away if I rented then at $16 or $18.

When I do rent its for minimum $21, but more often than not its $23-$25, but I also only do confirmed reservations and not just points.

I also never uses a rental company, why should they get paid for no work.

 

[tom1944]

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Wow, I would feel I gave my points away if I rented then at $16 or $18.

When I do rent its for minimum $21, but more often than not its $23-$25, but I also only do confirmed reservations and not just points.

I also never uses a rental company, why should they get paid for no work.

I think this is an old thread so prices may have been lower

 

[Cyberc1978]

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I think this is an old thread so prices may have been lower

Are you sure, my reply was to a post dated today?

 

[emchen]

Wow, I would feel I gave my points away if I rented then at $16 or $18.

I also never uses a rental company, why should they get paid for no work.

Great to know! I’ve just started trying to rent them out on this forum, VDH for $24/pt. It seems to be top dollar at the moment.

Also appreciate your thoughts on rental companies and will probably forgo them in the future! Just a little pushback though, they do some work aggregating guests, coordinating parties, and marketing.

 

[emchen]

I think this is an old thread so prices may have been lower

Old thread revived

Glad I did to find out I might be “giving” my points away!

 

[Sandisw]

Well, I sold one of my SSR contracts last year…the 200 point one…to put the month toward buying 300 points direct at VGF.

Even though I sold at $120, paying $75..profit of $38/point…it costs me about $10k to do the exchange.

So, now only have 300 SAP at SSR…rented 111 once…at $14/pt…so it brings next cost down to about $68/point…haven’t calculated the rest.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Great to know! I’ve just started trying to rent them out on this forum, VDH for $24/pt. It seems to be top dollar at the moment.

Also appreciate your thoughts on rental companies and will probably forgo them in the future! Just a little pushback though, they do some work aggregating guests, coordinating parties, and marketing.

I honestly think $24 is on the low side for VHD, I saw on one of he facebook pages that they charged $30. If that is reasonable I cant say, but if the demand is there - sure why not.

For the rental companies, I honestly dont think they do more than what you easily can do yourselves.

Another think to keep in mind is that some rental companies have clauses in their contract that should anything happen which is out of their control like a hurricane etc then YOU as an owner need to provide a refund to the rental company but the renter wont get a refund from them.

 

[tom1944]

I st

Are you sure, my reply was to a post dated today?

I stand and corrected

 

[sethschroeder]

For the rental companies, I honestly dont think they do more than what you easily can do yourselves.

Another think to keep in mind is that some rental companies have clauses in their contract that should anything happen which is out of their control like a hurricane etc then YOU as an owner need to provide a refund to the rental company but the renter wont get a refund from them.

I have reached out a couple times to companies and its never worth it for the premium they charge.

The biggest obstacle to private renting is the contract. You can find examples on this site, change it slightly, and now all you have to do is post in the forum here or facebook.

 

[sethschroeder]

I know this is an old thread but for current day

SAP question though:
SSR - wouldn't buy because I wouldn't want to be stuck there depending on what the future holds
AUL - wouldn't buy because its a state that doesn't care for timeshares seemingly
VB - wouldn't buy because of hurricane threat and MF increases
AKV - might buy because it does have the value rooms (although we don't like issues you have with bussing there)
POLY - would be the default choice as if you don't go it will be easiest to rent likely with the chance of the new tower being included

 

[sethschroeder]

Found myself buying another contract for SAP (and it was another Aulani subsidized contract). My first SAP contract was a 200 point SSR resale we purchased 4 yrs ago in 2019. I calculate the 2023 "all-in" cost/pt/yr to be $10.53. Later that same year, I purchased a 217 point Aulani subsidized contract "all-in" cost/pt/yr = $9.43!

This year, I rented out 196 SSR points @ $16/pt and lowered the cost/pt/yr to $10.13. Here's the kicker, I rented out 175 Aulani points @ $18/pt (also at David's) and lowered my cost to $6.87!

What is the cost/pt/yr of your SAP contract? @Sandisw @eMoneyBug @Wakey @zavandor

Which shows does it matter?

Buy a more premium resort, rent it an extra 1-2 years and essentially have it match SSR but not be SSR.

I own direct Riviera points that are $3.25/point/year at this point. Which is $11.75 after you add in MFs.

 

[emchen]

Which shows does it matter?

Buy a more premium resort, rent it an extra 1-2 years and essentially have it match SSR but not be SSR.

I own direct Riviera points that are $3.25/point/year at this point. Which is $11.75 after you add in MFs.

Point of clarification: my “all-in” calculations = Annual dues / Maintenance fees added in.

 

[sethschroeder]

Point of clarification: my “all-in” calculations = Annual dues / Maintenance fees added in.

My point was that basically for $1 more I have direct Riviera points compared to resale points at SSR. Its similar these days as well if people are buying VGF or RIV direct likely.

I just am not a big proponent of SAP when the price difference is so minimal in the total cost of a trip.

Even if you never use the 8+ month priority VGF will for sure and RIV will likely have more value in 10/20/30 years if you sell as well.

I know some people love SAP at SSR though.

 

[DonMacGregor]

As I said in another thread, I think an element that isn't often discussed is whether your SAP are your only points, or simply points you use to SA. If you ONLY own SAP, then I think the resort is important, as you need to be happy if you end up stuck with that resort and can't trade out at 7 months. If you have points at your preferred resort, AND you have SAP at another resort, then it becomes a little less critical.

For example, our preferred resort is BRV, so we have just over 300 points there and make our primary reservations there (but HAVE used them to augment our SAP if we had them available). We also have 230 SSR/OKW points that we use solely as SAP. I've only ever made one reservation at SSR (our very first Welcome Home trip), and have never made one there since. The OKW 2042 points are definitely not anyone's idea of good SAP, but they were stupid-cheap at only $80 PP, and I grabbed 30 just because. Right now, I have several trips planned, including one the first week of December at BRV, made with my BRV points.

This morning I went online and at the far end of the seven month window (no specific dates, number of days, or room type to avoid censure), there is availability for our preferred length of stay and room type at BRV, SSR, RR, OKW, BLT, AKV, VGF, and BCV. The only resorts requiring a waitlist or we're completely shut out at are BWV (I think that's during the refurb period), Poly, and CCV. I would use my SSR SAP to book that trip, never worrying about whether or not I would be stuck there because I'd have made my initial reservation at that resort to begin with. In other words, it's almost a guarantee that I'm not ever going to be "stuck" at my SAP resort.

As an example, we are staying at BCV for 5 nights next month (7/9-7/14) and that trip was booked from the get-go with SAP.

***Also note: because 200 of our SAP are direct points, they can be used at any resort, including RR and VDH. Some of our BRV points are direct too, so they can be used to augment SAP at RR or VDH.

 

[DanCali]

My point was that basically for $1 more I have direct Riviera points compared to resale points at SSR. Its similar these days as well if people are buying VGF or RIV direct likely.

I just am not a big proponent of SAP when the price difference is so minimal in the total cost of a trip.

Even if you never use the 8+ month priority VGF will for sure and RIV will likely have more value in 10/20/30 years if you sell as well.

I know some people love SAP at SSR though.

This math only works if you hold the contract to maturity, or close to it. The reality is that most people don't.

But there is the aspect of the big capital loss you take upfront with direct RIV points (I'm referring to the "direct - resale" price difference that applies once your contract closes) as opposed to no immediate capital loss with a resale purchase or even with VGF direct these days. You can say there is a capital loss of 8%-10% in the form of a resale broker fee, but that applies to all cases.

Someone selling out of their direct RIV contract after 5-7 years is likely to have experienced in retrospect a much higher annual cost of vacationing (MF + capital loss per point) versus someone who bought resale (anywhere) and sold after 5-7 years at prevailing prices. Most people probably don't go into this thinking they will sell after 5 years, but most also shouldn't go into this thinking they will hold a contract for 50 years.

 

[SkampyOne]

This math only works if you hold the contract to maturity, or close to it. The reality is that most people don't.

Someone selling out of their direct RIV contract after 5-7 years is likely to have experienced in retrospect a much higher annual cost of vacationing (MF + capital loss per point) versus someone who bought resale (anywhere) and sold after 5-7 years at prevailing prices. Most people probably don't go into this thinking they will sell after 5 years, but most also shouldn't go into this thinking they will hold a contract for 50 years.

Agree! As I've been waffling with adding resale vs. direct, I did a bunch of calculations and buying SSR resale, the cost per year would be slightly less if I sold in 2042 (vs. holding until expiration) but buying VGF direct, the cost per year would be about $100 more per year selling in 18 years.

That said, as @sethschroeder pointed out, there is likely to be more residual value in those VGF points, so you probably come out ahead. AND if you add in the value of direct points vs. resale, it's maybe how some of us are able to justify the direct points, especially with current incentives where the delta to resale is less.