Snowbirding with kids

[cndmama05]

Not sure which forum to post this in. But I was wondering if anyone has done this. We live in northern ontario where it is super cold and snowy for 6 mths of the year. We dream of snowbirding but the dream always comes to a halt because of the kids. We have 3 kids, 14, 7 and 3. The 14 year has an option to take online courses so he is not an issue. The issue is with my 7 year old. I'm not sure I will be able to take her out of school for 2 or 3 months. She is a very social child and does amazing in a class environment. At this point in time i do not want her homeschooled. Of course we will try to incorporate as much educational activites as we can on a daily basis while in Florida. My husband and I run a business and can technically work remotely as long as we have internet and phone. We would love to get away from the co

 

[ellbell]

I've often tried to figure this out as well. I don't own a business though so wouldn't be able to work remotely either.

 

[michelb]

I'm sure there are better forums to get good answers but here's my 2 cents. (There's a forum called "Grasmick" that deals with Canadians working in the US that might have more info although it's primary focus is work permits).

Offhand I can think of a few issues:

Schooling : We've been to a few campgrounds in Florida during vacations and I was shocked with the amount of kids that are either homeschooled or going to school in the area (There appears to be a fairly significant population of families that migrate to Florida in the winter (from Northern US - I didn't actually meet anyone doing this from Canada), live in campgrounds (and presumably rentals as well) and spend the winter there). Although academically, kids can do better with homeschooling (more dedicated attention and progressing at their own rate), IMO, they miss out on a very important part of education which is the social aspect so I'm not a huge fan but that's certainly the easiest thing to do. I haven't really looked into it but I don't believe that as a Canadian you can simply move to Florida for the winter (i.e. as a tourist) and register your child in public schools. I believe that you can only do this if you have some sort of residency status (e.g. temporary work permit) but it's certainly worth exploring. I suspect there's no restriction registering in private schools (although that might be quite expensive (e.g. as expensive as going to college).

Healthcare : As long as you maintain your Canadian Residency and are in Canada more than 6 months per year, you keep your provincial healthcare. It would still strongly advise to get supplemental health insurance but it's MUCH cheaper if you are still covered by Ontario or whichever province you are a resident of but that still might be a noticeable amount.

Work / work authorization : You'll have to do some homework on this and I'm not an expert. Even if you don't have US work authorization, there is still some work that you can do in the US but there are some contraints. If you work for a foreign company (or have business in Canada), you can do the work in the US without a work permit as long as it's clear that there is no benefit for you being in the US doing the work. What's possibly even more important is that you need to convince the border agent that you do not need a work permit to do what you are proposing. I think you are allowed to things like develop software, write a book, manage a foreign business, etc. But I'm not sure you are allowed to do things like ship goods you produce unless you are only shipping outside the US (if you are making something yourself and shipping it within the US, they might say that you are benefiting from being in the US to do your work and hence need a work permit), etc).

Getting entry into the US : As silly as it may sound, this can be tricky. As a Canadian, you are allowed to enter the US for up to 6 months as a tourist but border agents don't have to let you in that long. You need to convince the border agent that you can support yourself during your stay (without working illegally) and that you'll leave the US when you are supposed to. To do this, you need to maintain ties with Canada (home, job, etc) and it's subject to interpretation. On a related note, the US has a bizarre formula for determining if you are a US resident for tax purposes. If you spend 183 days or more in the US in a single year, they will consider you a US resident for tax purposes and you will likely have to file US tax returns on your world income. Furthermore, their calculation is actually # days in current year + (number of days previous year / 3) + (number of days of two years ago / 6). If that total is >= 183, you'll be considered a US resident for tax purposes (i.e. if you spend 5 months per year, every year (150+50+25), you will be considered a US tax resident. There are other rules regarding this so it's not quite black and white but it's certainly something to be aware of and plan appropriately.

FWIW, we've also considered of doing the same but it's not a good option for us.

Hope this helps,
Mike

 

[chartle]

At this point in time i do not want her homeschooled. Of course we will try to incorporate as much educational activites as we can on a daily basis while in Florida.

Would these educational activities mesh with what your school district does at home? It sort of sounds like she would be in school for a few months, go to Florida for a few months and then come back. Are all the teachers going to be able to give you detailed lesson plans with weekly goals setup so she will not be behind or ahead, almost as bad, when returning. I've read stories here where some teachers/school districts won't give it to you for a week.

But for those 2 to 3 months you will basically be home schooling her. Going to an educational museum is not the same as, I'm pulling this from an online curriculum for second grade math goals, "Use the Distributive Property as a multiplication strategy." and this is only one subject.

Hope you can figure something out.

 

[FigmentSpark]

Social life and social growth is very important to teenagers. I wouldn't do it to my teens. I had to move cities in grade 11 and it devastated me. For that matter, the move I made in grade 3 was devastating socially, too. I went from having friends to having no one. Think about your kids' social growth. Also, wherever you choose to live in the U.S., they will make some friends. Make sure you'll be living in an area where you will want their influences to come from, even if it's only 3 months. Oh, and in 3 months, when they have to leave these new friends, there will be more tears. I wouldn't do it to the kids.

 

[quandrea]

I replied in your other thread. I think it can be done without tax implications, etc if you keep it at 2-3 months.

As I said before, people overestimate the social implications. It’s amaz how your kids change when with you and each other a lot. Peers have way less influence. My kids have friends, but their primary alliance is to family—even as teens. The time we’ve spent as homeschoolers is such a gift.

My dd is fourteen now and in regular school. She marvels at these peer groups and their dynamics. She has friends from her athletics and other extra curriculars. Her peer group is based on common interests rather than age like in school.

I think you can do this.

 

[cndmama05]

I replied in your other thread. I think it can be done without tax implications, etc if you keep it at 2-3 months.

As I said before, people overestimate the social implications. It’s amaz how your kids change when with you and each other a lot. Peers have way less influence. My kids have friends, but their primary alliance is to family—even as teens. The time we’ve spent as homeschoolers is such a gift.

My dd is fourteen now and in regular school. She marvels at these peer groups and their dynamics. She has friends from her athletics and other extra curriculars. Her peer group is based on common interests rather than age like in school.

I think you can do this.

And I love the fact that your kids' main social influence is your family. My SS has had a weird upbringing and just recently started living with us. He is thriving with us and has matured greatly. Unfortunately he is the type of kid that is easily manipulated by peers and has gotten into a lot of trouble that way. He has adhd and gets distracted by anything and everything. He is very intelligent though and I think he would actually thrive even more in a one on one kind of teaching method.

My daughter on the other hand loves her friends and I do feel some guilt taking her away from that for a couple months. But the way i see it, she will make friends anywhere she goes and when we go back home, she will see her friends again. Its really 2 months a year we will be travelling.

There are so many options. Its incredibly overwhelming but I see so much upside to travelling.
One option is the let them go to school for the fall and de enrol them and switch to homeschool when christmas break starts. Then we go for 2 months and come back and enroll them again.
Another is continuing homeschooling even after we come back from travelling.

 

[siren0119]

There are so many options. Its incredibly overwhelming but I see so much upside to travelling.
One option is the let them go to school for the fall and de enrol them and switch to homeschool when christmas break starts. Then we go for 2 months and come back and enroll them again.
Another is continuing homeschooling even after we come back from travelling.

Make sure you run that by your school board/governing body. They may not allow a re-enrollment without proving that the student is on par with the class, which means you would have to have a plan to keep them on curriculum for the time period you were away. In our school district, you can't homeschool and then re-enroll midyear without proving competency so that the student isn't thrust into a classroom where they are too far behind their peers.

 

[michelb]

If you want your kids to attend public schools while you are there, one thing that might be worth looking into is buying property in that area. I don't know for sure but it's possible that owning real estate is sufficient to qualify to register kids in school.

If you buy in Orlando, IMO, you'll be able to rent most of the year and get a descent return. IMO it's hard to rent outside the winter months in most other areas (although large metro areas like Miami and Tampa/Clearwater probably have enough people that you can rent year long).

Personally, I do agree that it can be tough on kids to be moved around when they are young. It depends a lot on the child, they are usually pretty resilient but some have a very hard time with this. I would also add that even if kids make friends easily (one of our sons makes friends pretty much every time we are in a campground), it's not the same as long term friends.

 

[hdrolfe]

I wish I could do this. My job doesn't allow me to have it as an option, basically I don't make enough My son would love to be home schooled... or says he would but I don't think he actually understands what would be involved. Being gone from winter for 3 months would be AMAZING. Perhaps once kiddo is grown.

As for moving around a lot, we did that when I was growing up and I am shy. I still made friends and had a social life. My sister found it harder, she's older than me and much more of an extrovert. I find it very strange now that my sister's kids went to school with all the same kids for their whole school life! And my son is in grade 4 now with all the same kids he started with in JK. It's bizarre to me.

 

[Gigi22]

My DSis and her family moved permanently to the US a few years ago. Her two high school aged kids had to transfer to a US high school. Their family very carefully checked out school districts before deciding where to buy a house, as they wanted the kids be in a top-ranked school. Both teenagers had to catch up on some credits, mainly US history. If the OP’s plans involve any potential transfer into the US school system, there is not necessarily going to be a straight grade-to-grade correlation. Of course, YMMV.

 

[chartle]

Both teenagers had to catch up on some credits, mainly US history.

I would have never thought of that. Also I did do a little digging into Canadian education and I guess there is a French proficiency requirement but if switching back and forth would be easy to do since I'm assuming all US school districts teach French.

 

[cndmama05]

We don't want to go through the mess with immigration so we would only be able to be in the states up to 6 months a year. We would only want to be there max 3 months anyway.
Well I asked the schools and they are ok with it. Even the elementary school my daughter is at now said they would be able to grant her a "leave" that would be excused. So thats great!
That would be for an extended holiday for 1 to 2 months, not 3. Didn't dive into it further but I'm pretty sure I would be responsible to keep up with her learning, which is a bit difficult because her school is French immersion.

 

[chartle]

Didn't dive into it further but I'm pretty sure I would be responsible to keep up with her learning, which is a bit difficult because her school is French immersion.

This is the main sticking point. I would be asking the school how this is all supposed to work with this leave.

 

[FigmentSpark]

I don't know about elementary school, but at least at the high school level there may be things that could be done on line. My son's teachers put all their notes and assignments on a google drive that they access. There are no textbooks coming home anymore. In fact, they didn't even get a math textbook until late Nov, because of a backorder at the board. Instead, they were given access to online textbooks.

Another thing to look at are the summer courses for some high school classes that are offered through companies like this: http://www.edutravelforcredit.com/

If you can knock off a couple of credits through spring break or the summer, that leaves less to catch up on in the winter.

Don't forget, if your DS is on a semester system, you'll want to take into account finals for the first semester when booking your trip.

 

[star72232]

I would have never thought of that. Also I did do a little digging into Canadian education and I guess there is a French proficiency requirement but if switching back and forth would be easy to do since I'm assuming all US school districts teach French.

I would guess that lots of US districts don’t have any French options. Spanish is far more common, and I’m not sure that any/all US states have any foreign language requirements. I did my chiropractic degree in the US, and few of my American classmates had ever taken a language course other than English.

 

[quandrea]

All these stumbling blocks regarding a leave, keeping up with the home school, etc, is exactly why I’d jump both feet into homeschooling. Just simpler all around to take it on yourself. More continuity for your kids.

 

[chartle]

I would guess that lots of US districts don’t have any French options. Spanish is far more common, and I’m not sure that any/all US states have any foreign language requirements. I did my chiropractic degree in the US, and few of my American classmates had ever taken a language course other than English.

It least in Pennsylvania you need a 2 years of a foreign language and you start around 10th grade. In my day most school districts taught French and Spanish. My sons' went to the same school and also had an option of German. Also through the years, pre internet, I think they offered other languages though some sort of distance leaning like closed circuit TV. But for most its not at all immersive. I took Spanish many years ago and can say my name and count to maybe 20.

My niece in a neighboring district is in 7th grade and is taking an introduction to language that will help her pick what she wants to take. She also has an option of Latin.

For some reason I think when I went to college in the 70's you needed 2 years of a foreign language for admission.

ETA: I started at Penn State and even today for the College of Engineering you need 2 credit of a World Language. So maybe it wasn't for high school graduation but for college admission.

https://admissions.psu.edu/apply/requirements/4year/

ETA II: The University of Pittsburgh requires this:

Any one of the following fulfills the language requirement:

1. Three years of study of a single foreign language in high school, passed with an average of C or better over the three years.
   
   
2. Placement into Level III of a foreign language on a University of Pittsburgh language placement test.
   
   
3. Placement into Level II of a foreign language on a University of Pittsburgh language placement test and completion of the appropriate course from the Second Course list below.
   
   
4. Completion of one of the two-course sequences listed below.