Some small, private colleges struggling to survive

[Julie's Haircut]

There's always a breadth requirement at most schools - even supposedly ones that specialize in technical degrees like MIT. There's a rumor that it might be able to graduate with a liberal arts degree at MIT.
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Not a rumor. I once worked with a woman who had a degree in one of the humanities, perhaps history, from MIT. She had to take plenty of tough math and science courses as well.

 

[Julie's Haircut]

Religion? Was this a religious college then?

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Based on the screen name, it appears the poster went to Texas Christian University.

 

[tcufrog]

Yes I did. It's not a very religious school but it does require one religion class. My dh took world religion. He's agnostic (grew up Hindu) but he really liked the class and learned a lot from it. He felt that taking the class helped him understand other people's' viewpoints and motivations. He feels that his liberal arts classes made him well rounded, taught him how to write, give presentations, work with and lead a team, communicate effectively, etc. He's found that too many of the engineers he's interview or met during grad school who didn't come from a similar college background lacked those skills. His companies are still small enough that he doesn't have room for engineers who can't communicate with vendors and customers or manage employees who aren't engineers.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Yes I did. It's not a very religious school but it does require one religion class. My dh took world religion. He's agnostic (grew up Hindu) but he really liked the class and learned a lot from it. He felt that taking the class helped him understand other people's' viewpoints and motivations. He feels that his liberal arts classes made him well rounded, taught him how to write, give presentations, work with and lead a team, communicate effectively, etc. He's found that too many of the engineers he's interview or met during grad school who didn't come from a similar college background lacked those skills. His companies are still small enough that he doesn't have room for engineers who can't communicate with vendors and customers or manage employees who aren't engineers.

Not saying he’s wrong, but most people tend to identify with their own experience and appreciate those with a similar background. One engineer I worked with preferred to hire C students because that’s what he was. His belief was that students who struggled, but still managed to graduate had a good work ethic and determination.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Based on the screen name, it appears the poster went to Texas Christian University.

Well that would make sense. I honestly never looked at it and thought that but I guess I will now lol.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Not saying he’s wrong, but most people tend to identify with their own experience and appreciate those with a similar background. One engineer I worked with preferred to hire C students because that’s what he was. His belief was that students who struggled, but still managed to graduate had a good work ethic and determination.

I know with my husband's company and the other large companies in the area at least the people I've met work ethic means a lot. As far as I know they don't look at the particular college and determine if you are qualified or not. They will look at if the college is accredited or not and in order to be accredited they would have to meet certain requirements.

I'm a big proponent of liberal arts colleges myself and my alma mater (also my husband's) has a great engineering program but like I said before they can only get so far outside of the engineering scope. He took english, he took a history course and I think the one extreme fluff if you will (moreso because of what his major was) was a history of film class where they watched films each class and a few other courses but the major focus was engineering. I used to joke too because at our alma mater the engineering buildings were not on the main campus which was on a hill so he rarely saw the rest of campus whereas for me I was all over the main campus with my course work.

Knowing what kind of work though that those engineering students put themselves through..it's amazing. The fact that sleeping, eating, and being all day and night at the lab was normal. Then it was seeing how many courses my husband took in order to graduate in 4 years. I'm a year older than my husband and once I graduated I continued working for the University. I used to call myself the weekend girlfriend because mostly all of saw of my husband (then boyfriend) was 10mins before we went to sleep because otherwise he was too busy with coursework plus he was also working for the company he had been since he was 17 nearly 18 all the while in school maintaining good grades. Then watching him after he graduated and continued working for that same company before he was eligible to take the P.E. exam 4 years later and how much studying and work he did for that while also being on a field assignment away from home (though coming home every 2 weeks).

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yes I did. It's not a very religious school but it does require one religion class. My dh took world religion. He's agnostic (grew up Hindu) but he really liked the class and learned a lot from it. He felt that taking the class helped him understand other people's' viewpoints and motivations. He feels that his liberal arts classes made him well rounded, taught him how to write, give presentations, work with and lead a team, communicate effectively, etc. He's found that too many of the engineers he's interview or met during grad school who didn't come from a similar college background lacked those skills. His companies are still small enough that he doesn't have room for engineers who can't communicate with vendors and customers or manage employees who aren't engineers.

Thank you for explanation.

 

[RangerPooh]

My daughter's college is closing a couple of the older dorms due to low enrollment. It is a problem. They need to recruit more students from overseas to fill the gap. The University of Washington is making up for reduced state funding by recruiting foreign students who are willing to pay full price.

I worked in admin at a large public university in WA state and while there was a healthy population of international students attending the university, many used the university as a jumping platform for a more desirable university. Every year I wrote letters for students who were applying to transfer universities. About half of those did transfer.

 

[RangerPooh]

DH teacher at a small, private liberal arts college. They have been discussing the trend in declining enrollment for the last few years. I believe that the attendance for 4 years is in the range of $200k, but from what I have gathered they have a sizable endowment fund. In comparison to other private liberal arts colleges of their stature in the region, they are considered more diverse in the experiences that they can provide their students; in that the local community is culturally and economically diverse and community involvement is encouraged. They are discussing ways that enrollment can be increased, but are also not too concerned about the threat of closure as their college does carry a name associated with prestige.

Locally, the state has in place free tuition at 2 community colleges for qualifying college freshman and sophomores. This has reduced enrollment at 4 year institutions.

 

[bcla]

I know with my husband's company and the other large companies in the area at least the people I've met work ethic means a lot. As far as I know they don't look at the particular college and determine if you are qualified or not. They will look at if the college is accredited or not and in order to be accredited they would have to meet certain requirements.

I think there was a similar discussion on DIS a few years back where there were questions about getting a degree from a for-profit or similar private university like DeVry or University of Phoenix. Apparently for some employers, simply having an accredited degree is enough to qualify for a higher salary or required for certain positions.

I guess there is National University, which is technically nonprofit but operates a lot like the for-profit universities. One time I needed one more unit to graduate. For whatever reason I wasn't scheduled for the typical graduation checklist review, and a non-faculty advisor in my department said that it might be possible to go to National University for a mid-term self-study program to meet the requirements I needed. It was a really obscure requirement too. They were unaccredited at the time, so it would have required a waiver from the head of the department.

I do remember applying for a job where the employer was well known for caring about where one got a degree and what GPA. I've heard of people who were told by a hiring manager or a recruiter that they couldn't go forward because they've tried before and the executive hiring committee had to review every proposed new hire, and would veto hiring people simply on the basis of not having a high enough GPA. And this was for experienced prospective employees with 15 years experience and a long list of accomplishments.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think there was a similar discussion on DIS a few years back where there were questions about getting a degree from a for-profit or similar private university like DeVry or University of Phoenix. Apparently for some employers, simply having an accredited degree is enough to qualify for a higher salary or required for certain positions.

I guess there is National University, which is technically nonprofit but operates a lot like the for-profit universities. One time I needed one more unit to graduate. For whatever reason I wasn't scheduled for the typical graduation checklist review, and a non-faculty advisor in my department said that it might be possible to go to National University for a mid-term self-study program to meet the requirements I needed. It was a really obscure requirement too. They were unaccredited at the time, so it would have required a waiver from the head of the department.

I do remember applying for a job where the employer was well known for caring about where one got a degree and what GPA. I've heard of people who were told by a hiring manager or a recruiter that they couldn't go forward because they've tried before and the executive hiring committee had to review every proposed new hire, and would veto hiring people simply on the basis of not having a high enough GPA. And this was for experienced prospective employees with 15 years experience and a long list of accomplishments.

I don't know if a specific GPA was a requirement or not TBH for my husband's company. I do know with Garmin (unrelated to our engineering discussion) does for any employment I think.

 

[georgina]

Not a rumor. I once worked with a woman who had a degree in one of the humanities, perhaps history, from MIT. She had to take plenty of tough math and science courses as well.

Yes, this is why liberal arts education is so important - even history majors need to understand math & science so they understand what is happening with the economy, environment, etc, and science majors need to understand history! My DS went to a technical college, and he had AP credits to get him out of a lot of humanities-type classes so he mostly focused on Math & science. My DDs had a more broad education. One of them was quite expensive. There was a comment upthread about why anyone would pay more for a college when there were cheaper options available. The same could be said for the type of car you purchase, type of house you live in, how you spend your money on anything. It's all a choice and what is important to you.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Not saying he’s wrong, but most people tend to identify with their own experience and appreciate those with a similar background. One engineer I worked with preferred to hire C students because that’s what he was. His belief was that students who struggled, but still managed to graduate had a good work ethic and determination.

I have never really thought about it that way. But I like it.

I myself have a soft spot for those who have struggled and made it.

But mine hasn't been for grades, necessarily. It's been more about how someone made it work despite adversity. I will have to keep this other in mind.

I find it very interesting compared to what bcla describes here (bolded).

Besides where you went to school, so much depends on what field you're in and who's doing the hiring! (Most people probably fall somewhere in the middle? Experiences?)

I think there was a similar discussion on DIS a few years back where there were questions about getting a degree from a for-profit or similar private university like DeVry or University of Phoenix. Apparently for some employers, simply having an accredited degree is enough to qualify for a higher salary or required for certain positions.

I guess there is National University, which is technically nonprofit but operates a lot like the for-profit universities. One time I needed one more unit to graduate. For whatever reason I wasn't scheduled for the typical graduation checklist review, and a non-faculty advisor in my department said that it might be possible to go to National University for a mid-term self-study program to meet the requirements I needed. It was a really obscure requirement too. They were unaccredited at the time, so it would have required a waiver from the head of the department.

[I do remember applying for a job where the employer was well known for caring about where one got a degree and what GPA. I've heard of people who were told by a hiring manager or a recruiter that they couldn't go forward because they've tried before and the executive hiring committee had to review every proposed new hire, and would veto hiring people simply on the basis of not having a high enough GPA. And this was for experienced prospective employees with 15 years experience and a long list of accomplishments.[/B]

 

[meggiebeth]

Keep in mind though the populations of the UK are vastly different than the U.S.

I cannot imagine the feasibility of forgiving loans the way that they do in the UK according to your comment. What I do agree on is educational costs in general are much higher than in the UK. But they are also formulated differently. For example--public school wise (so not quite the same as the topic of the thread speaking about private schooling) universities in my state petition the state to raise tuition to plug holes in financial aid they get from the state-so too much money taken away by the state leads to the universities petitioning to raise their tuition by X% to account for that. Then there are the ancillary fees that can get you such as books per semester.

In what ways do you mean the populations are different?

Essentially, it’s paid for through our taxes, in a similar way that we receive free healthcare. I do think our taxes are a little higher here than in the States (unfamiliar with how much income tax tends to be your way, but if sales tax is anything to go on, your 6-7% is considerably less than our 20%. That said, it’s not applied to essentials like most foods, children’s clothes, etc.)

 

[runwad]

In what ways do you mean the populations are different?

I believe she's referring to the number of people we have 325.7 million to the UK 66 millon.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I believe she's referring to the number of people we have 325.7 million to the UK 66 millon.

Correct.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

In what ways do you mean the populations are different?

Essentially, it’s paid for through our taxes, in a similar way that we receive free healthcare. I do think our taxes are a little higher here than in the States (unfamiliar with how much income tax tends to be your way, but if sales tax is anything to go on, your 6-7% is considerably less than our 20%. That said, it’s not applied to essentials like most foods, children’s clothes, etc.)

We just have a lot more people and yes as the PP was talking about I meant population differences in terms of numbers.

In a nutshell the UK is set up differently than the U.S. neither system is wrong nor right it's just what works there won't necessarily work here.

Sales tax..that varies so wildly. In my area sales tax runs you 9.5-10.5% total including state,city, county and at times special taxing districts, and that's on everything as we don't have a % break on specific goods plus a higher tax rate for alcohol, cigarette, etc .

Income tax in my state is-- taxable income not over $30,000: 3.1 %, taxable income over $30,000 but not over $60,000: $930 plus 5.25 % of excess over $30,000, taxable income over $60,000: $2,505 plus 5.7 % of excess over $60,000--these are 2018 rates.

Federally for 2018:


That doesn't tell the full story as we have adjustments that we can claim on our taxes, etc. We also pay for certain things with our property tax on homes but that at least in my area doesn't go directly to the colleges but rather a portion goes to the state who then distributes a certain portion of that to the colleges. I do however pay over 51% of my property tax towards my public school district (so elementary, middle {or junior high}, and high school) assigned to us in our area and I do pay a portion towards the Community College in my area.

Now private school is funded differently than public school. My comments regarding tuition and raising it due to funding issues were in respects to public.

My point was at a national level the way that our system is set up I cannot imagine it feasibly be possible to have loans where you only make payments on it if you earn over a certain amount, and after a certain period of time has passed, the loan is waived completely. There are loan forgiveness programs but they are not as easy as they sound just by the name and they are restricted to certain degrees from my understanding. Like the PP did mention NY and free tuition should be interesting to watch over time.

 

[bcla]

In a nutshell the UK is set up differently than the U.S. neither system is wrong nor right it's just what works there won't necessarily work here.

I know this is branching off into a tangent, but I think it's worth understanding that most "public universities" in the United States are more "publicly supported" than anything else. Especially these days they only get a fraction of their operating expenses from public funding. I've heard it said that some public universities could opt to go private if the controlling board voted to do so. A lot of private universities receive a lot of their funding through grants from public sources as well as several scholarships from public sources.

And in the UK, the two best-known universities are actually considered public.

 

[tcufrog]

FWIW while I can understand your husband's desire to hire like minded that seems a bit out of norm. Every engineer I've met had has a large focus on engineering and it's what has made them so good at their jobs.

My dh and his business partner are the primary owners of two companies that design, manufacture, lease, sell, and support tools for oil and gas wells. On any given day my dh is meeting with prospective investors or customers, diagnosing tool failures, hiring or firing employees, writing code, managing the move the their new facility, planning with his partner regarding the new products requested by customers, calling vendors,etc. Right now they're trying to hire some more coders and engineers to help manage the load but what they do is so specialized that it's hard to find someone with the requisite skills. They both desperately want to get back to just being engineers again but the companies are growing so fast that it's not possible right now. My husband feels that the soft skills he and his business partner learned at TCU have been critical to their companies' success and their ability to be successful entrepreneurs.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I know this is branching off into a tangent, but I think it's worth understanding that most "public universities" in the United States are more "publicly supported" than anything else. Especially these days they only get a fraction of their operating expenses from public funding. I've heard it said that some public universities could opt to go private if the controlling board voted to do so. A lot of private universities receive a lot of their funding through grants from public sources as well as several scholarships from public sources.

And in the UK, the two best-known universities are actually considered public.

The conversation had already veered off when the PP mentioned tuition capping and ability for every student to obtain a loan that was only required to be paid if they made over a certain amount and that eventually after a time the loan was forgiven.

My comment that you are quoting was in response to the PP's comment regarding free healthcare, tuition capping and ability for every student to obtain a loan that was only required to be paid if they made over a certain amount and that eventually after a time the loan was forgiven. The way that the U.S. is set up with our system, with our population, makes for what works in the UK not feasible to work in the U.S. Our federal government doesn't set tuition maxes, our federal government doesn't guarantee every student has the ability to get a loan (it's based on financial need based on the parent/guardian's income), our federal government doesn't have a system set up where those guaranteed loans will only have to be paid if one makes over a certain amount and then eventually they are just forgiven. Nationally I just don't see that being feasibly possible given how our system is set up, our population differences, etc.