Splash Mountain to become Princess and the Frog ride

[Krandor]

We will have to disagree, Krandor.

If anybody is going to re-do them let it be something like tyler perry productions, not disney.

Change the ride.. let somebody else re-make the stories properly. They are public domain and anybody can do so.

 

[RapunzelIsMyHomeGirl]

Imagine if Anika Noni Rose made an appearance/performance like this?

 

[always]

did Cinderella get an old slipper?

Her castle got Sleeping Beauty's leftover paint.

 

[tarak]

For the current redo?! ASK THEM TO BRING BACK THE FIBER OPTIC DESCENT

LOL. I can try. He used to work for Disney full-time, and was one of the executive designers on the Shanghai park. Now he’s a contractor, so I don’t know if that’s impacted his attachment to the project. I hope not - he’s a good guy.

River Journey absolutely has a story line - it just isn't spelled out for people so many assume there isn't one. A lot with that land (and for AK in general) of for people to explore and discover on their own

i love NRJ. We got stuck once and I didn’t even care because it was so beautiful and peaceful.

 

[Boardwalkbrats]

perhaps you should read up on not only the movie, also the song. The song was influenced by an extremely offensive song. This is not merely a “benign” piece of the American lexicon, it is steeped in offensive material. America has more than historical warts, and it has hardly been a group of people trying to find fairness for all and freedom for all. This is a very romanticized view of years of oppression and inequality.

 

[MegaraWink]

I'm glad someone at some point mentioned wdwmagic and how they were more upset, because I went over there and felt more solidarity about my favorite ride getting the axe, and just in general as a Disney fan. This isn't a criticism of anyone here -- although I'm not very active here, I went to the anniversary meetup a few years back (was it 2016?) and met some of you. I love it here. I just expected a lot more mourning about this, based on how people have felt about other rides in the past. I'm very curious to see how the podcast handles this. I think it's pretty odd how this is being talked about. But that's just me. I'm very sad.

 

[chasgoose]

I'm glad someone at some point mentioned wdwmagic and how they were more upset, because I went over there and felt more solidarity about my favorite ride getting the axe, and just in general as a Disney fan. This isn't a criticism of anyone here -- although I'm not very active here, I went to the anniversary meetup a few years back (was it 2016?) and met some of you. I love it here. I just expected a lot more mourning about this, based on how people have felt about other rides in the past. I'm very curious to see how the podcast handles this. I think it's pretty odd how this is being talked about. But that's just me. I'm very sad.

I think a lot of people are sad about the change based on their memories and nostalgia for the ride, but they also understand why the change is happening and why its necessary. Personally, I always was aware that Disney based the ride on Song of the South (I mean it was noted on the map until like last year) and the movie was vaguely problematic but never really investigated why and I didn't really feel the need to because I didn't really care. Over the last few years as I have listened to more voices of BIPOC and considered the luxury I had of never really feeling the need to look more deeply into Splash Mountain or the Song of the South, I started to feel more awkward about the ride (although even that is still a luxury because I just had mixed feelings as opposed to being reminded of imagery used to oppress my relatives) despite still having fond memories of it. At a certain point though, my nostalgia for the ride just wasn't as important to me as the offense and pain it caused for others and the awkwardness became more intense to the point where I stopped wanting to ride it. I will still always have my positive memories of the ride and those will never be taken away from me, but I'm glad Disney decided to go in a different direction and fix something they have known to be at least somewhat problematic since it's opening day.

No one is saying that it's racist to be sad about the change to a beloved ride that many people have fond memories of, especially if they were insulated from the full context of Splash Mountain and Song of the South and Joel Chandler Harris and "Lost Cause" narratives. That said, once people start to learn why the ride is problematic, to simply ignore that reality is not OK. At the end of the day, however, I guess just think of how lucky you are to be able to mourn a ride when you think about Splash Mountain in its current ancestors instead of mourning the centuries of trauma black Americans have suffered under the same white supremacy that promoted the problematic narratives contained in Song of the South and Splash Mountain in order to justify its existence.

 

[MegaraWink]

@chasgoose "No one is saying that it's racist" Right, certainly not the people who are saying they read the whole thread and it's cringe, and it's racist, and they aren't talking about the people who aren't sad, so what are they referring to? Ultimately, people can say whatever they want. I don't care if I'm called racist. I just needed more solidarity about how sad I find this, as a Disney fan, and I found it.

And I can mourn both of those things! History, and my favorite ride at Disney.

But the history isn't going anywhere and my favorite ride is.

 

[TinkFan74]

So you're calling all of the people in this thread that are happily accepting the change and were hoping for it fringe lunatics? Lol

I am proud to be a Disney fan and a “fringe lunatic”

 

[DGsAtBLT]

@chasgoose "No one is saying that it's racist" Right, certainly not the people who are saying they read the whole thread and it's cringe, and it's racist, and they aren't talking about the people who aren't sad, so what are they referring to? Ultimately, people can say whatever they want. I don't care if I'm called racist. I just needed more solidarity about how sad I find this, as a Disney fan, and I found it.

And I can mourn both of those things! History, and my favorite ride at Disney.

I am majorly cringing at the people who are pretending that Splash Mountain is some kind of last hope in educating people about a culture they have no idea about in an attempt to make it seem like their anger is about more than just Disney changing a ride. Also cringing at the people who are grasping at straws trying to prove that everything can be just as offensive at Disney.

So no, if someone is just sad I am not giving them the Chrissy Teigen face. I love Splash Mountain too, and I am sad it is changing. But I get it and support it and am super embarrassed by how some people are expressing their sadness.

 

[MegaraWink]

@DGsAtBLT I appreciate the clarification.

 

[chasgoose]

@chasgoose "No one is saying that it's racist" Right, certainly not the people who are saying they read the whole thread and it's cringe, and it's racist, and they aren't talking about the people who aren't sad, so what are they referring to? Ultimately, people can say whatever they want. I don't care if I'm called racist. I just needed more solidarity about how sad I find this, as a Disney fan, and I found it.

And I can mourn both of those things! History, and my favorite ride at Disney.

Well there have been plenty of comments made in this thread that have been casually dismissive of legitimate concerns about Splash Mountain's problems even after those issues are explained or use phrases like "erasing history" or "catering to the mob." Comments like those go right up to the line of being racist if not cross over it (as they did in some instances). It's hard for people to lose something that they have so many great memories of, especially if they had no idea of the problems and the historical context of what is depicted in Splash Mountain and Song of the South. No one likes learning that their faves are problematic! That's not something most people can just get over immediately and it might take time to adjust, but a lot of people in here have shown themselves to be capable of doing so. It's when people refuse to accept legitimate concerns about the ride as such and dismiss them as fake or, worse, irrelevant or not worth considering that there is a problem. That's probably what a lot of people are cringing about.

ETA: @DGsAtBLT also I think offers a great explanation above.

 

[Eric Smith]

@chasgoose "No one is saying that it's racist" Right, certainly not the people who are saying they read the whole thread and it's cringe, and it's racist, and they aren't talking about the people who aren't sad, so what are they referring to? Ultimately, people can say whatever they want. I don't care if I'm called racist. I just needed more solidarity about how sad I find this, as a Disney fan, and I found it.

And I can mourn both of those things! History, and my favorite ride at Disney.

But the history isn't going anywhere and my favorite ride is.

You should read what the previous poster actually said. They said that its not racist to be disappointed about the ride going away. What you said distorts the meaning of what was said.

It’s ok to be disappointed about the ride going away. Most of the people on this thread are on that boat. However we also need to acknowledge that the material the ride is based on is racially insensitive at best and straight up racist at worst. In 2020, we know better than that and we should start correcting the wrongs of the past.

 

[chasgoose]

You should read what the previous poster actually said. They said that its not racist to be disappointed about the ride going away. What you said distorts the meaning of what was said.

It’s ok to be disappointed about the ride going away. Most of the people on this thread are on that boat. However we also need to acknowledge that the material the ride is based on is racially insensitive at best and straight up racist at worst. In 2020, we know better than that and we should start correcting the wrongs of the past.

Thanks. Even with all my mixed feelings about Splash Mountain there's still part of me that's sad it's going away and a bigger part of me that is also scared they aren't going to do a good job/spend enough money with the re-theming (as problematic as the content is, the ride is still was a feat of Imagineering when it first opened and mostly remains that way). On the other hand, Splash, particularly the DL model, has needed some serious TLC for awhile now and if nothing else, they will probably put more effort and resources towards a PaTF makeover than they would have if they were attempting a major refurb while keeping the theme intact. Who knows if they would have prioritized such a major refurb in the first place if they kept the theme as is. They could have kept doing the annual winter patches until the ride fully stopped functioning and demanded they do something more thorough. The fact that they have to change everything, instead of just what is most direly in need of fixing will hopefully result in more ambitious and creative Imagineering attention than it might otherwise have received.

 

[chasgoose]

Thanks. Even with all my mixed feelings about Splash Mountain there's still part of me that's sad it's going away and a bigger part of me that is also scared they aren't going to do a good job/spend enough money with the re-theming (as problematic as the content is, the ride is still was a feat of Imagineering when it first opened and mostly remains that way). On the other hand, Splash, particularly the DL model, has needed some serious TLC for awhile now and if nothing else, they will probably put more effort and resources towards a PaTF makeover than they would have if they were attempting a major refurb while keeping the theme intact. Who knows if they would have prioritized such a major refurb in the first place if they kept the theme as is. They could have kept doing the annual winter patches until the ride fully stopped functioning and demanded they do something more thorough. The fact that they have to change everything, instead of just what is most direly in need of fixing will hopefully result in more ambitious and creative Imagineering attention than it might otherwise have received.

Also I should have mentioned the other reason I don't think the PaTF refurb will be like the FEA makeover. In that case, Frozen was the most popular IP Disney had created in a long time and they were just trying to get it into the park as fast as possible so it made sense why there were some cut corners and missed opportunities along the way. Additionally, Maelstrom was fine, but it wasn't a marquee attraction like Splash Mountain. While I love PaTF, it is nowhere near as popular IP as Frozen and it's not like Disney is just trying to capitalize on its popularity by adding a layover to an under-appreciated ride before the heat simmered down. Disney knows this is going to be heavily watched and people are going to care a lot more about the finished product than with FEA where many were just excited to have any Frozen attraction in the parks, and that this is not the time to be risk-averse or cheap out.

 

[Marthasor]

This is exactly why it's dangerous to get rid of Splash Mountain and deeming it racist. Because alot of people will mistakenly equate Bre'r Rabbit as racist when Bre'r Rabit comes from African American fables and West African folklore. This is what I talk about when I say Bre'r Rabbit and African American and West African culture will be erased. Kind of a racist by association even though Bre'r Rabbit existed along time before the white guy came along and wrote Uncle Remus.

White guy Joel Chandler Harris, Sos and his minstrel Uncle Remus creation are racist in my opinion and have been eliminated from Splash from the beginning. That's fine and as it should be but by eliminating Splash instead of owning up to it and having a conversation on African American and West African culture and folklore it is hurting the Bre'r Rabbit/West African folklore brand and reinforcing the notion that the White man invented everything. Knowledge is power, the Bre'r Rabbit/West African folk tales have existed for centuries just like Aesop's fables. The Mali Empire was one of the greatest, richest and most powerful empires ever and I bet you that most of the people here don't even know about it's existence.

You keep saying this over and over again, but culture and folktales are not being erased. They live on in the source material. As would Peter Pan if that ride were eliminated. Or Winnie the Pooh. Or any other ride, attraction or character in Disney that is based on literature or another original source - Cinderella, Pinocchio, Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, The Little Mermaid, the list goes on and on and on. They eliminated Mr. Toad's Wild Ride from WDW, yet I can still read Wind in the Willows. 20,000 Leagues is gone, but I can still read the book. Disney is eliminating THEIR version and adaptation of Joel Chandler Harris' works, but we can all still read them. So are you worried that DISNEY history is being erased? Because that is all that is going away here - Disney IP. Believe it or not West African and African American culture will continue without Splash Mountain. None of these cultures or works of folklore need to be told through the lense of Disney in order to exist. You can go online right now and buy every single one of Harris' books if you are so worried these stories are going away. It seems your issue is with Disney locking SoTS in the vault and eliminating any Disney-related documentation that it existed since you want them to "own up to it" and have a conversation - I get that. For whatever their reasons, they do not want to do this and we could speculate until the cows come home as to why (they want to pretend it didn't happen, they don't want to have these conversations with their younger demographic, they would rather make more inclusive movies now to try to make up for the past?). I don't know. But I don't think you really need to worry that history and culture are being erased here. Ancient Rome also doesn't exist anymore either but, like Splash Mountain, we have enough documentary proof to know it existed. And no one ever learned about the Mali Empire by riding Splash Mountain.

 

[Krandor]

Also I should have mentioned the other reason I don't think the PaTF refurb will be like the FEA makeover. In that case, Frozen was the most popular IP Disney had created in a long time and they were just trying to get it into the park as fast as possible so it made sense why there were some cut corners and missed opportunities along the way. Additionally, Maelstrom was fine, but it wasn't a marquee attraction like Splash Mountain. While I love PaTF, it is nowhere near as popular IP as Frozen and it's not like Disney is just trying to capitalize on its popularity by adding a layover to an under-appreciated ride before the heat simmered down. Disney knows this is going to be heavily watched and people are going to care a lot more about the finished product than with FEA where many were just excited to have any Frozen attraction in the parks, and that this is not the time to be risk-averse or cheap out.

Agree. One of the issues with doing a re-theme is that when a ride is initially built you can determine the story you want to tell and then build the ride and ride elements around that story (subject to limitations like land, etc.). On a re-theme the ride elements are in place and now you have to build a story around the already existing ride elements which is harder to do and sometimes results in ride elements that don't make as much sense in the re-theme like the going backward section of FEA. Made sense in maelstrom.. not so much in FEA.

That being said Splash doesn't really have a lot of elements that should be tough to work around. They just need to make sure they have a good reason for going over the falls ( which I'm sure was the first thing they did) and I don't think any other elements are going to have any major issues incorporating.

 

[MomeWraith]

Feel bad for James Baskett. Hope they find a way to keep the memory of his performance and oscar win from fading away.

 

[chasgoose]

Feel bad for James Baskett. Hope they find a way to keep the memory of his performance and oscar win from fading away.

Given that Disney has done everything in its power to keep most traces of that performance away from the public (aside from a couple brief inclusions on Disney Sing-A-Long videos/DVDs, but notably NOT in Splash Mountain itself) since before Splash Mountain opened, I don't think the decision to re-theme Splash Mountain has changed anything on that front. James Baskett was intentionally excised from Splash Mountain during its development and has never been a part of it regardless of whether they re-theme the ride or not.

 

[rteetz]

I think it’s time for a break. We can revisit this thread if there is new news to share.