Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reaction and Discussion *CONTAINS SPOILERS*

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How is it possible to bring balance to something by destroying one entire side to the equation? That makes no sense and never has. The two sides to the Force are Light and Dark. You can't have balance if there is only Light or only Dark. Heck, even TLJ brings this up. It might be the only? useful explanation of canon given in the entire film.

The prophecy was a function of the prequels, not the OT.

Well that assumes the prophesy does refer to Anakin and that the Jedi interpreted the prophesy correctly

And maybe he was supposed to end the struggle between both sides and then his son would finally show things by ending he Jedi as well

And if it just about even sides then melenia ago there was also balance as tons of both Jedi and Sith
 
Unless you believe Shmi lied about Annakin's father and his midichlorian count was not the highest ever seen, and the prequels were a complete lie, you can't ignore the story. It's canon. Immaculate conception, unheard of connection to the Force, and an end result that did actually bring a very strict definition of balance, you have to ignore a lot to believe Annakin is not the Chosen One. Let alone the simple fact that he is the focus of a 3 story arc that introduces and finishes the concept of Chosen One. It's not like anyone calls Luke that... ever.
 
Not at the end of Revenge of the Sith. At the end, there is 1 Emperor, 1 Jedi Grand Master. 1 Apprentice, 1 Jedi Master. That is balance. That is what Annakin did by destroying the Jedi. He brought balance. At the end of Return of the Jedi there is 1 Jedi, no dark side. Until some point in the future where Luke tries to make more Jedi and Snoke appears. But again, this is between 30 and 50 years after the Chosen One completed his prophecy.
From the Star Wars wiki:

During the Galactic Civil War, Luke Skywalker began his training in the Jedi arts. By that time, the Jedi were all but extinct as a result of the purge[17] that began with Order 66.[2] His mentors, Kenobi and Yoda, hoped that Luke—as a fully-trained Jedi Knight—would bring an end to the reign of the Sith.[18] However, after learning of his father's true identity, Luke resolved to bring Anakin back to the light side of the Force.[19]

Ultimately, it was Anakin Skywalker who restored balance to the Force by destroying both himself and his Sith Master, Darth Sidious,[20][21] in order to save his son during the Battle of Endor.[19] Having fulfilled his destiny,[20] Anakin joined Kenobi and Yoda in death as a Force spirit.[22]

Also this

Though there was some debate that Anakin Skywalker's son, Luke Skywalker, was actually the Chosen One since he caused his father to destroy Darth Sidious, the debate was settled when George Lucas himself confirmed in an interview that Anakin, even after becoming Darth Vader, was still officially the Chosen One and not Luke.[30] Darth Vader: Sith Lord, a canon reference title, also states explicitly that "Anakin had fulfilled the destiny of the Chosen One."
 
Not at the end of Revenge of the Sith. At the end, there is 1 Emperor, 1 Jedi Grand Master. 1 Apprentice, 1 Jedi Master. That is balance. That is what Annakin did by destroying the Jedi. He brought balance. At the end of Return of the Jedi there is 1 Jedi, no dark side. Until some point in the future where Luke tries to make more Jedi and Snoke appears. But again, this is between 30 and 50 years after the Chosen One completed his prophecy.
Sorry I misunderstood your post. I thought you were talking about the Darth Vader balance to the force not making sense, not the TLJ plot
 


From the Star Wars wiki:

During the Galactic Civil War, Luke Skywalker began his training in the Jedi arts. By that time, the Jedi were all but extinct as a result of the purge[17] that began with Order 66.[2] His mentors, Kenobi and Yoda, hoped that Luke—as a fully-trained Jedi Knight—would bring an end to the reign of the Sith.[18] However, after learning of his father's true identity, Luke resolved to bring Anakin back to the light side of the Force.[19]

Ultimately, it was Anakin Skywalker who restored balance to the Force by destroying both himself and his Sith Master, Darth Sidious,[20][21] in order to save his son during the Battle of Endor.[19] Having fulfilled his destiny,[20] Anakin joined Kenobi and Yoda in death as a Force spirit.[22]

Also this

Though there was some debate that Anakin Skywalker's son, Luke Skywalker, was actually the Chosen One since he caused his father to destroy Darth Sidious, the debate was settled when George Lucas himself confirmed in an interview that Anakin, even after becoming Darth Vader, was still officially the Chosen One and not Luke.[30] Darth Vader: Sith Lord, a canon reference title, also states explicitly that "Anakin had fulfilled the destiny of the Chosen One."

I think it's funny all the links refer back to the same source, the wiki itself. In the Clone Wars Annakin is confirmed as the Chosen One by the Father. That is canon. I still haven't found anywhere that says the prophecy was fulfilled when the light side beat the dark side except the references to the same source. It's clearly my opinion, but the prophesy was fulfilled when both sides were reduced to balance. Though the point of the new trilogy is clearly the balance can't be maintained with Light and Dark users. I suspect the new Force users that will come from this trilogy will have to be grey and balance the two aspects internally.
 
I think it's funny all the links refer back to the same source, the wiki itself. In the Clone Wars Annakin is confirmed as the Chosen One by the Father. That is canon. I still haven't found anywhere that says the prophecy was fulfilled when the light side beat the dark side except the references to the same source. It's clearly my opinion, but the prophesy was fulfilled when both sides were reduced to balance. Though the point of the new trilogy is clearly the balance can't be maintained with Light and Dark users. I suspect the new Force users that will come from this trilogy will have to be grey and balance the two aspects internally.
GL: This is the last of the Star Wars movies. At the end of Return of the Jedi, the Republic is restored, and Darth Vader is redeemed.

It took a very long time, but Anakin finally fulfils the prophecy that he will destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force.

That’s from Lucas himself.

http://www.sci-fi-online.com/Interview/05-11-01_GeorgeLucas.htm

 
GL: This is the last of the Star Wars movies. At the end of Return of the Jedi, the Republic is restored, and Darth Vader is redeemed.

It took a very long time, but Anakin finally fulfils the prophecy that he will destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force.

That’s from Lucas himself.

http://www.sci-fi-online.com/Interview/05-11-01_GeorgeLucas.htm
Huh. Well. It's his story so there we have it. I also understand why he studied film and not math. Doesn't make a lick of sense though. Good find!
 


Unless you believe Shmi lied about Annakin's father....

In the theatre when she said “there was no father, I can’t explain it”. I yelled out “It was a drunken hook up!”

I got quite a few laughs.

Now I’d have people calling for me to get fired from my job for saying that.

20 years ago was a much simpler time.....
 
All this talk of dark side and light side reminds me of a song.

Ebony and ivory
Live together in perfect harmony
Side by side on my piano keyboard
Oh lord why don’t we
 
I was born in 1976. In the mid 80s- early 90s when my friends talked Star Wars we knew it was supposed to be 9 movies. We also believed the first 3 would be about Anakin’s rise and fall. We assumed:

Episode 1 Anakin is a kid in the Jedi Academy + stuff about the Republic + Back story on how the Jedi protect peace and justice in the galaxy (Obi Wan talks about this in ep 4)

Episode 2: Anakin is a late teen and Obi Wan’s student (ep 4 Obi Wan says he taught Anakin), we see Anakin as a “great fighter pilot and cunning warrior” during the clone wars where Anakin and Obi Wan work under Bail Organa (ep 4 “years ago you served my father in the clone wars”) + transition from Republic to Empire beginning with the Emporers evil plan put in motion (the clone wars is the transition). We assumed the Emporer was a Sith with no affiliation with the Senate and he took power by force (because....he’s a Sith and has the force and the politicians don’t)

Episode 3: Clone wars end, Anakin gets married (described in the crawl). He is seduced by the dark side and becomes Darth Vader (first 20 minutes of the movie) after his wife is pregnant which causes her to go into hiding, Vader kills the Jedi, fights Obi Wan and falls into lava (as discussed in the Return of the Jedi novelization when Luke has the extended discussion with ghost Obi-Wan after Yoda dies), after Vader is defeated Obi Wan takes baby Luke to Tatooine and gives him to Anakin’s brother Owen and sister Beru and explains what happened (Anakin is Vader) so Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru always knew Anakin = Vader, which is why they say “he has too much of his father in him” “that’s what I’m afraid of”, Anakin’s wife hides on Alderan with baby Leia + Emperor takes power with the regional governors being created. Vader is saved from lava by emporer and given the suit, Yoda and Obi Wan go into hiding, end of movie

We know the Senate is in force through Episode 4. The rest were assumptions from what we were told in the movies or taken from the 3 novelizations.

So I didn’t hate the prequels as they were pretty much what my friends and I assumed they’d be.

We just couldn’t figure out 7-9 since the story was wrapped up after 6.
 
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All this talk of dark side and light side reminds me of a song.

Ebony and ivory
Live together in perfect harmony
Side by side on my piano keyboard
Oh lord why don’t we

or perhaps the duet version featured on Saturday Night Live
ebony5.jpg
 
I was born in 1976. In the mid 80s- early 90s when my friends talked Star Wars we knew it was supposed to be 9 movies. We also believed the first 3 would be about Anakin’s rise and fall. We assumed:

Episode 1 Anakin is a kid in the Jedi Academy + stuff about the Republic + Back story on how the Jedi protect peace and justice in the galaxy (Obi Wan talks about this in ep 4)

Episode 2: Anakin is a late teen and Obi Wan’s student (ep 4 Obi Wan says he taught Anakin), we see Anakin as a “great fighter pilot and cunning warrior” during the clone wars where Anakin and Obi Wan work under Bail Organa (ep 4 “years ago you served my father in the clone wars”) + transition from Republic to Empire beginning with the Emporers evil plan put in motion (the clone wars is the transition). We assumed the Emporer was a Sith with no affiliation with the Senate and he took power by force (because....he’s a Sith and has the force and the politicians don’t)

Episode 3: Clone wars end, Anakin gets married (described in the crawl). He is seduced by the dark side and becomes Darth Vader (first 20 minutes of the movie) after his wife is pregnant which causes her to go into hiding, Vader kills the Jedi, fights Obi Wan and falls into lava (as discussed in the Return of the Jedi novelization when Luke has the extended discussion with ghost Obi-Wan after Yoda dies), after Vader is defeated Obi Wan takes baby Luke to Tatooine and gives him to Anakin’s brother Owen and sister Beru and explains what happened (Anakin is Vader) so Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru always knew Anakin = Vader, which is why they say “he has too much of his father in him” “that’s what I’m afraid of”, Anakin’s wife hides on Alderan with baby Leia + Emperor takes power with the regional governors being created. Vader is saved from lava by emporer and given the suit, Yoda and Obi Wan go into hiding, end of movie

We know the Senate is in force through Episode 4. The rest were assumptions from what we were told in the movies or taken from the 3 novelizations.

So I didn’t hate the prequels as they were pretty much what my friends and I assumed they’d be.

We just couldn’t figure out 7-9 since the story was wrapped up after 6.


The overall story arc of the prequels isn't the issue to me - it's the acting is very bad and they spent too much time on politics side and the vote of no confidence, and then Jar Jar Binks - who makes it into all the movies, but they kill off Qui Gon and Darth Maul in the first one, etc. Plus I think they just allocated the time to Anakin's evolution wrong - I think they should have spent more time showing how he went down the dark path and a bit more time as Vader, etc. .... like, I can get why he saves Palpatine from Mace Windu so that he can learn more about how he can have power of life and death and "save" Padme - but then he goes right from that to willingly killing all the younglings? Like, there needed to be more development

I still think that a really good editor could take the prequels and make 2 rather good movies out of them
 
The overall story arc of the prequels isn't the issue to me - it's the acting is very bad and they spent too much time on politics side and the vote of no confidence, and then Jar Jar Binks - who makes it into all the movies, but they kill off Qui Gon and Darth Maul in the first one, etc. Plus I think they just allocated the time to Anakin's evolution wrong - I think they should have spent more time showing how he went down the dark path and a bit more time as Vader, etc. .... like, I can get why he saves Palpatine from Mace Windu so that he can learn more about how he can have power of life and death and "save" Padme - but then he goes right from that to willingly killing all the younglings? Like, there needed to be more development

I still think that a really good editor could take the prequels and make 2 rather good movies out of them
This is the same way I feel. I'm a fan of the story arc of the prequels. He just couldn't pull it off in movie form.
 
this just in: Disney begged George Lucas to help write Episode 9.

Let’s go live to the press conference where Lucas is taking the stage:

 
cool, now we can all speculate on what is included in the 20 mins of delete footage ;)

Speculated deleted scene: Rey confronts Kylo and tells him she knows he's her brother and that Luke really sent her away when she was young to protect her from Kylo when Luke realized how much Kylo had turned to the dark side already. :duck:

We actually already know, I've seen articles detailing at least some of what the deleted scenes include. One is the 3rd lesson (the part where we saw her running on a beach with her lightsaber drawn in the trailers), other deleted scenes include more with Rose, Finn, and DJ on Snoke's ship, and I can't recall anything else off the top of my head.
 
Well, that's only after Darth Bane formally instituted the rule of 2 - before that there were also tons of Sith (with tons of infighting which led to the rule of 2) ... so theoretically there was "balance" then as there were a ton on north sides

I've never really understood the purpose of having a balance. If you have more good guys then bad, isn't that a good thing?
 
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