Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reaction and Discussion *CONTAINS SPOILERS*

[kbelle8995]

Those are all great moments, too. I think the sense of finality – that this was it for Carrie – really sold her scene with Luke. A lot of people thought she should have been the one to lightspeed kamikaze Snoke's ship, but again, we'd have lost that beautiful moment.

I loved this moment too. Also loved the moment with Yoda as well as R2. I was practically crying. I liked the movie didn't love it. But there were moments that really hit and the Battle of Crait was really great.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

If anyone is interested, the next edition of the Star Wars Adventures comic is focused on Rose and her sister (Poe also makes an appearance):

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/h...ew-star-wars-adventures-comic-preview-1074523

 

[BrianL]

If anyone is interested, the next edition of the Star Wars Adventures comic is focused on Rose and her sister (Poe also makes an appearance):

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/h...ew-star-wars-adventures-comic-preview-1074523

I like Rose just fine, but is that Watto? Awesome!

 

[mickeyluv'r]

We went to this new movie mostly only expecting to be entertained. I suppose it did that, but we also came away disappointed. It wasn't one thing, as much as multiple little things that just didn't feel true to the identity of the characters. Luke's changes were probably the worst, but we also thought Yoda was a bit off. It just kinda didn't make sense what they did to both characters.

And I'm all for the good guys surviving long odds, but well...if you have ten bad guys shooting at the good guy in a tiny room, and somehow they all miss...it just gets too silly at some point. This movie had some scenes that were just too preposterous.

Also a few pointless characters. I just didn't feel like their actions were explained well enough. A few came off as nothing more than merchandizing vehicles.

And I enjoyed the prior two SW movies. This just wasn't good storytelling. I recall the words of the great Mark Twain:

 

[mickeyluv'r]

FROM "Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offenses" by Mark Twain:

There are nineteen rules governing literary art in the domain of romantic fiction....These eighteen require:
1. That a tale shall accomplish something and arrive somewhere.
2. They require that the episodes in a tale shall be necessary parts of the tale, and shall help to develop it.
3. They require that the personages in a tale shall be alive, except in the case of corpses, and that always the reader shall be able to tell the corpses from the others.
4. They require that the personages in a tale, both dead and alive, shall exhibit a sufficient excuse for being there.
5. The require that when the personages of a tale deal in conversation, the talk shall sound like human talk, and be talk such as human beings would be likely to talk in the given circumstances, and have a discoverable meaning, also a discoverable purpose, and a show of relevancy, and remain in the neighborhood of the subject at hand, and be interesting to the reader, and help out the tale, and stop when the people cannot think of anything more to say.
6. They require that when the author describes the character of a personage in the tale, the conduct and conversation of that personage shall justify said description.
7. They require that when a personage talks like an illustrated, gilt-edged, tree-calf, hand-tooled, seven- dollar Friendship's Offering in the beginning of a paragraph, he shall not talk [completely differently at] the end of it.
8. They require that crass stupidities shall not be played upon the reader as "the craft of the woodsman, the delicate art of the forest," by either the author or the people in the tale.
9. They require that the personages of a tale shall confine themselves to possibilities and let miracles alone; or, if they venture a miracle, the author must so plausibly set it forth as to make it look possible and reasonable.
10. They require that the author shall make the reader feel a deep interest in the personages of his tale and in their fate; and that he shall make the reader love the good people in the tale and hate the bad ones. But the reader of the "Deerslayer" tale dislikes the good people in it, is indifferent to the others, and wishes they would all get drowned together.
11. They require that the characters in a tale shall be so clearly defined that the reader can tell beforehand what each will do in a given emergency.

IMO, the new SW movie violates a number of these rules the way Twain says the Deerslayer did - more or less.

 

[DVCcurious]

The best thing this movie has to offer is all the angry rants on YouTube. I’m obsessed with watching them! Many are literally lol.

 

[Redcon1]

Rian Johnson is hosed either way from the haters when Episode IX comes out.

If it turns out bad, they'll blame him for laying the groundwork for a horrible sequel.
If it turns out good, they'll claim J.J. as the savior of Star Wars and bringing the franchise back from extinction.

 

[rteetz]

Rian Johnson is hosed either way from the haters when Episode IX comes out.

If it turns out bad, they'll blame him for laying the groundwork for a horrible sequel.
If it turns out good, they'll claim J.J. as the savior of Star Wars and bringing the franchise back from extinction.

And people will hold it against him with the next trilogy he is doing too.

 

[rteetz]

Fun twitter thread from Rian Johnson

https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/954398041598918656

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Fun twitter thread from Rian Johnson

https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/954398041598918656

 

[angelmav]

For one movie to literally invalidate every positive feeling that came before it? To not be able to watch the old movies without thinking about how apparently soul-damaging The Last Jedi was? Yeah, I think that's a pretty weird stance to take.

These are movies about wizards with laser swords, Muppets and talking robots. To literally get angry over them? Whatever, I guess.

Way to read into what I said and misrepresent my opinion since it doesn’t mesh with yours. Ill check with you the next time I have a reaction. Soul damaging? Get over yourself you pompous, arrogant....

And for the record, the character assassination this movie engaged in, changing the characters in such a dramatic way is what has impacted the originals. Giving them this sad and shabby path post victory in Return, robs those movies of their joy. There is no happy ending. Is that ok with you?

 

[FCDub]

Way to read into what I said and misrepresent my opinion since it doesn’t mesh with yours. Ill check with you the next time I have a reaction. Soul damaging? Get over yourself you pompous, arrogant....

And for the record, the character assassination this movie engaged in, changing the characters in such a dramatic way is what has impacted the originals. Giving them this sad and shabby path post victory in Return, robs those movies of their joy. There is no happy ending. Is that ok with you?

Have a nice day.

 

[DVCcurious]

One thing I think a lot of the The Last Jedi apologists are missing is WHO is complaining.

By my own personal research the people who liked The Last Jedi are not hard-core fans. And the people who HATED The Last Jedi are hard-core fans. I've said before that I saw The Force Awakens 6 times and I only saw The Last Jedi once. If Disney pushes out another SJW Star Wars they will lose the hard-core fan base and keep the regular people. Then Star Wars will cease to be Star Wars and will become Marvel. What does that mean? Instead of $2 billion gross they'll get $600 million.

Lots of people are saying they are "done" with Star Wars and the actors/directors/whoever is literally laughing at them

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/42719084/star-wars-the-last-jedi-cast-mock-men-only-fan-edit

How will Hard Core fans feel when they voice their displeasure and they get mocked? Do you think these people will be running out to watch Star Wars movies in the future?

There's a reason disboards prohibits political discussion: it pisses people off.

Disney has decided to make Star Wars a political movie. Just because it agrees with YOUR politics doesn't mean it's not political. This decision will drive people away.

As for who are "hard-core fans" this is what I believe hard core fans knew before Episode 1 was released:

The emporer's name was Palpatine
Darth Vader ended up in the suit after falling into lava after deuling Obi-Wan Kenobi
The evil Jedi are called "Sith"
Chewbacca was a slave for the empire and Han Solo saved him and Chewie pledged a life-debt to Han Solo which included Leia after they got married (although I believe this story has been changed recently, but that was the story line in the 1980s)

Hard Core fans also knew the "model names" of the various war machines:
Emperial Walkers are AT-ATs
The two legged walkers are AT-STs
The Millennium Falcon is a YT-1300f freighter

None of that information is in the three movies, but hardcore fans read the novels and comics of the EU. THOSE are the people who are watching 5 times in the theatre and pushing these films above $1 billion at the box office. If Disney decides to make Episode 9 "Occupy Canto Bite" you will lose those people forever.

I watched Phantom Menace 5 times on opening day and another 7 times in the theatre. I watched Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith at least 10 times.

To paraphrase Tyler Durden:
The people you are insulting are the people you depend on. We watch the movie 10 times in theatre. We buy the DVDs. We buy the lightsabers and action figures. We buy the clothes. Do not F... with us.

 

[rteetz]

One thing I think a lot of the The Last Jedi apologists are missing is WHO is complaining.

By my own personal research the people who liked The Last Jedi are not hard-core fans. And the people who HATED The Last Jedi are hard-core fans. I've said before that I saw The Force Awakens 6 times and I only saw The Last Jedi once. If Disney pushes out another SJW Star Wars they will lose the hard-core fan base and keep the regular people. Then Star Wars will cease to be Star Wars and will become Marvel. What does that mean? Instead of $2 billion gross they'll get $600 million.

Lots of people are saying they are "done" with Star Wars and the actors/directors/whoever is literally laughing at them

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/42719084/star-wars-the-last-jedi-cast-mock-men-only-fan-edit

How will Hard Core fans feel when they voice their displeasure and they get mocked? Do you think these people will be running out to watch Star Wars movies in the future?

There's a reason disboards prohibits political discussion: it pisses people off.

Disney has decided to make Star Wars a political movie. Just because it agrees with YOUR politics doesn't mean it's not political. This decision will drive people away.

As for who are "hard-core fans" this is what I believe hard core fans knew before Episode 1 was released:

The emporer's name was Palpatine
Darth Vader ended up in the suit after falling into lava after deuling Obi-Wan Kenobi
Emperial Walkers are AT-ATs
The two legged walkers are AT-STs
The Millennium Falcon is a YT-1300f freighter

None of that information is in the three movies, but hardcore fans read the novels and EU. THOSE are the people who are pushing these films above $1 billion at the box office. If Disney decides to make Episode 9 "Occupy Canto Bite" you will lose those people forever.

I don't think that claim is completely accurate. I know "hard core" fans that likes the movie and ones who didn't. I also know not hard core on both sides. I would consider myself a not hard core simply because I didn't grow up with it. This new trilogy is "my" Star Wars. I don't think you can call someone who did like the film to not be a hard core fan either.

As for its box offie numbers I don't think anyone expected it to be TFA big. TFA was something people waited years and years for. Now there is almost a saturation of Star Wars. It is everywhere and that could be getting to some people. You also have Star Wars movies coming out every year now too.

Rian Johnson who for some reason people despise because of this movie is a hard core fan by your definition. He reads the novels and in my link I posted earlier he even brought out one of the novels to show proof of why some things happened in TLJ the way they did.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

One thing I think a lot of the The Last Jedi apologists are missing is WHO is complaining.

By my own personal research the people who liked The Last Jedi are not hard-core fans. And the people who HATED The Last Jedi are hard-core fans. I've said before that I saw The Force Awakens 6 times and I only saw The Last Jedi once. If Disney pushes out another SJW Star Wars they will lose the hard-core fan base and keep the regular people. Then Star Wars will cease to be Star Wars and will become Marvel. What does that mean? Instead of $2 billion gross they'll get $600 million.

Lots of people are saying they are "done" with Star Wars and the actors/directors/whoever is literally laughing at them

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/42719084/star-wars-the-last-jedi-cast-mock-men-only-fan-edit

How will Hard Core fans feel when they voice their displeasure and they get mocked? Do you think these people will be running out to watch Star Wars movies in the future?

There's a reason disboards prohibits political discussion: it pisses people off.

Disney has decided to make Star Wars a political movie. Just because it agrees with YOUR politics doesn't mean it's not political. This decision will drive people away.

As for who are "hard-core fans" this is what I believe hard core fans knew before Episode 1 was released:

The emporer's name was Palpatine
Darth Vader ended up in the suit after falling into lava after deuling Obi-Wan Kenobi
The evil Jedi are called "Sith"
Chewbacca was a slave for the empire and Han Solo saved him and Chewie pledged a life-debt to Han Solo which included Leia after they got married (although I believe this story has been changed recently, but that was the story line in the 1980s)

Hard Core fans also knew the "model names" of the various war machines:
Emperial Walkers are AT-ATs
The two legged walkers are AT-STs
The Millennium Falcon is a YT-1300f freighter

None of that information is in the three movies, but hardcore fans read the novels and comics of the EU. THOSE are the people who are watching 5 times in the theatre and pushing these films above $1 billion at the box office. If Disney decides to make Episode 9 "Occupy Canto Bite" you will lose those people forever.

I watched Phantom Menace 5 times on opening day and another 7 times in the theatre. I watched Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith at least 10 times.

To paraphrase Tyler Durden:
The people you are insulting are the people you depend on. We watch the movie 10 times in theatre. We buy the DVDs. We buy the lightsabers and action figures. We buy the clothes. Do not F... with us.

Well, by your definition I qualify as a hard core fan. On top of that I watch tons of YouTube videos going over different theories, read ton of Star Wars books (actually in the middle of re-reading the "Last of the Jedi" series now that focuses on Ferus Olin), have tons of Star Wars Legos and other figures/toys, have a framed poster of the Phantom Menace with my ticket stub included, etc....

.... And I really liked The Last Jedi

And I have lot of friends who are similar levels of fans who also really enjoyed it - in fact I don't know anyone that I talk to in physical form (I.e., not online) that didn't like it

 

[jknezek]

I don't think it's that black or white. I know hardcore fans on both sides of this divide. I do think most of the people, like me, who really dislike the movie fall into the hardcore base. I think that's because it's an entertaining movie, it's just not a good Star Wars movie in the opinion of a good portion of the hard core fans. So casual moviegoers enjoy it and move on. But I know hardcore fans that enjoy it also. I've talked with them, we disagree on certain things, and we move on. If I was doing a Venn diagram, I'd say that if you had two circles, one of hardcore fans and one of casual movie fans, and then drew a "really don't like the movie circle", most of that secondary circle would be hardcore, but it wouldn't cover the hardcore base. Just a portion of it. Now is that portion 10% or 75% I just don't know.

As for the politics of it, I'm relatively middle of the road. When I lived in Blue states I shaded slightly red. Now that I live in a Red State, I vote very Blue. That's because I'm in the middle and when you are in a clear one or the other state, it becomes very extreme for that dominant side. But I didn't have too much of a problem with the politics of the movie, and I don't think that is the only reason, or even the major reason, the part of the hardcore base that hates it reacted the way it did. I think it's also a betrayal of the original characters and the original ideas of the series. But again, it's not an either or. If you drew the Venn diagrams you'd have bubbles all over of why people didn't like it. I have 2 major reasons, one relates to Star Wars and one relates to general storytelling, that I think the movie stinks, but other people have a variety of concerns that either I don't care about or simply disagree with.

Boiling it down to one or two things is just oversimplifying the reaction drastically. And I think it's always important to remember something that Disney knows well. Hardcore fans are important, but there are a lot more casual fans. So if they lose people that go 10x, but pick up 10 casual fans that go once, it's a wash. And if they can draw in kids, who by nature start as casual fans, that will keep the merchandise flowing through a new generation.

I really don't think the mostly aging hardcore base is everything, and I think Disney knows this very well. They've proved it, as you pointed out with Marvel, and they will follow it up with Star Wars.

 

[ScrapYap]

Way to read into what I said and misrepresent my opinion since it doesn’t mesh with yours. Ill check with you the next time I have a reaction. Soul damaging? Get over yourself you pompous, arrogant....

And for the record, the character assassination this movie engaged in, changing the characters in such a dramatic way is what has impacted the originals. Giving them this sad and shabby path post victory in Return, robs those movies of their joy. There is no happy ending. Is that ok with you?

Isn’t it sad that TLJ has managed to retroactively diminish all previous SW movies. I’m going to assume that the entire movie was a Sith mind trick perpetrated on all of us by Snoke. So great is his power. And I won’t stop hoping that one day, the real Luke will rescue us with the REAL Episode VIII. Millions of fans would positively howl with approval if Disney announced that this had happened. It was all a Sith nightmare.

P.S. The Force is strong with you Angelmav. You need to learn to use the Ignore button.

 

[ScrapYap]

FROM "Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offenses" by Mark Twain:

There are nineteen rules governing literary art in the domain of romantic fiction....These eighteen require:
1. That a tale shall accomplish something and arrive somewhere.
2. They require that the episodes in a tale shall be necessary parts of the tale, and shall help to develop it.
3. They require that the personages in a tale shall be alive, except in the case of corpses, and that always the reader shall be able to tell the corpses from the others.
4. They require that the personages in a tale, both dead and alive, shall exhibit a sufficient excuse for being there.
5. The require that when the personages of a tale deal in conversation, the talk shall sound like human talk, and be talk such as human beings would be likely to talk in the given circumstances, and have a discoverable meaning, also a discoverable purpose, and a show of relevancy, and remain in the neighborhood of the subject at hand, and be interesting to the reader, and help out the tale, and stop when the people cannot think of anything more to say.
6. They require that when the author describes the character of a personage in the tale, the conduct and conversation of that personage shall justify said description.
7. They require that when a personage talks like an illustrated, gilt-edged, tree-calf, hand-tooled, seven- dollar Friendship's Offering in the beginning of a paragraph, he shall not talk [completely differently at] the end of it.
8. They require that crass stupidities shall not be played upon the reader as "the craft of the woodsman, the delicate art of the forest," by either the author or the people in the tale.
9. They require that the personages of a tale shall confine themselves to possibilities and let miracles alone; or, if they venture a miracle, the author must so plausibly set it forth as to make it look possible and reasonable.
10. They require that the author shall make the reader feel a deep interest in the personages of his tale and in their fate; and that he shall make the reader love the good people in the tale and hate the bad ones. But the reader of the "Deerslayer" tale dislikes the good people in it, is indifferent to the others, and wishes they would all get drowned together.
11. They require that the characters in a tale shall be so clearly defined that the reader can tell beforehand what each will do in a given emergency.

IMO, the new SW movie violates a number of these rules the way Twain says the Deerslayer did - more or less.

Wow!! This is first rate. And not a category in which TLJ didn’t fail.

 

[rteetz]

This thread has obviously run its course. Hopefully we can all get along in the future as fans of Star Wars.