Swan & Dolphin Question From Prior Podcast

DISNUT21

Mouseketeer
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Hi Ya'll.
Thank you so much for your Dis Unplugged Radio Show... Now along with the website, I can get my DisFix without feeling like I am missing out on the magic. Since joining, I have heard countless podcasts trying to get caught up and I heard one from October regarding the Swan and Dolphin hotels. I think it was Pete who said he would save the story behind why those non-Disney hotels are on site and given almost the same treatment as Disney resort guests. My question was to ask if anyone knew the story behind the properties and what the gripe was with the starwood company? It has always pondered my mind what they were doing there and everytime I am asked by friends why they are there I can't answer! Especially being the Disney fact machine that I am, I still want to know why?
 
I'll give you the 'readers digest' version. I should also say that this may have some elements of 'urban legend' in it, but this is how I understand it.

Tishman Hotels originally had the contract to build hotels at WDW - this was when the company was run by Ron Miller. When Eisner took over, he gave the contract to Sid Bass, who was instrumental in helping him get the job at Disney. Tischman sued for breach of contract, and was awarded the land that the Swan/Dolphin sits on now. Tishman owns both (Starwood is the property manager). In a nutshell, that's pretty much it. No one at the S/D will talk about it (there is ABSOLUTELY no love lost between S/D and Disney), so what I know is thru other reports, but it's fairly sure it's pretty accurate.

Pete
 
there is an out of print book, "storming the magic kingdom" that has a chapter on this topic... I'll hit some of the less readers digest points. In the 80's Disney was bleeding money, stock price was dropping like a rock, corporate raiders at the door (there were a couple times that Disney was very close to being bought and split up to be sold to the highest bidder), they couldn't buy a hit at the box office, the TV shows were loosing popularity or canceled. So the pre Eisner regime sold the rights to build hotels on WDW property to Tischman. Tischman got a great deal on this, and pretty much complete control. The original plans for the hotels that are now Swan and Dolphin were giant tall black monolith buildings to pack in the thrall like Vegas (Tischman does a lot of Vegas hotels).

Well you can fault Eisner for a lot of things, but after the Bass Brothers wrote a very large check, and bailed out Disney to keep the company intact, and Eisner eventually made their large fortune larger... Eisner looked at the Tischman deal and said, "No." No style, no substance, he just told them no... sue me, the lawyers will be at it forever. The reasons Eisner said no, here is where we get according to legends, is that Eisner had plans for Disney to build out the hotels, as at the time Poly and CR were highly profitable and always full (gee, location, location, location) and legend kinda bears out as there are a few hotels that Disney does on property. Eisner, while he did not invent the all inclusive vacation concept, he wanted WDW to be Club Med for families.

Well all this is going on while Epcot is getting started, and the new coveted location for hotels would be next to Epcot. So in a series of compromises and settlements... Tischman, got a long term lease hold on the property where Swan and Dolphin sit, and have provisions in the contract about participation in transportation... there is an old legend that Swan and Dolphin were to be monorail resorts, this was never the case, though I figure that comes from a transportation participation clause in the contract, as at the time it was assumed that the monorail would be extended in several ways: to what is now Downtown Disney (then Lake Buena Vista Village) and to the airport (Disney does have right of way to build out the monorail to the airport, and it is one of those things that surfaces from time to time, but the cost of building monorail to the airport in the mid 80's would be the same as the cost of running the busses as they are today, for about 60 years.) and to new resorts.

As Pete said there is no love lost between Tischman and Disney, as they figured participation in transportation means monorail... but Eisner and company extended the drainage ditch and put Swan Dolphin on Transportation via a boat. A legal compromise of sorts.

Other compromises were height and design. Tischman at this point was pissed and was going to put up giant black monolith style hotels, but Disney just changed the zoning law on the hight of buildings (Disney is its own governing body, Reedy Creek which is the controlling tax entity that Walt asked for and got from the State of Florida, and controls local to WDW taxes and zoning, this is how the MGM/Hollywood Studios were able to be built in 1/3 the time as Universal, Disney never has to get approval from anyone but themselves). And another compromise was that Michael Graves, then an up and coming designer and a friend of Eisner's would do the hotel design. The reason the hotel is that shade of blue is to try to hide it. So that it is less noticeable from World Showcase.

Some other parts of the story... it is rumored that Ron Miller gave Tischman the contract because he knew he was already out the door, and by the time the black monoliths would go up, it would seem like Eisner did it... part of the contract is that both parties have to agree to changes in the lease when it comes back up for negotiations in (I think) 2080, other wise it is a perpetual year to year at market rates. it is also rumored that Ron Miller set the EuroDisney deal in motion again because he new he was out the door and that it would be a boondoggle. (Miller is Walt's son-in-law who was never that well liked by the rest of the family, it is rumored that Roy O. Disney took great pride and pleasure in Firing him personally).

it is a great read if ya can find it, "storming the magic kingdom" a lot of what happened in the mid 80's are what shapes the company today.
 
Thanks for that great information wildeoscar. Really interesting.
 


I knew someone would ask for it... I need to find where it went, I think it was abducted by aliens. But for you Urslua, I'll hunt it down.
 
TU Pete & Wildeoscar and OP for asking!
I always wondered what their relationship was and what put them in that location. S&D are so out of character with their Miami Vice pallettes against the Y&B, BW Happiest Place on Earth themes.
Very interesting read.
 


Thank you so much pete, and wildeoscar you've explained it perfectly and now I understand why that hotel is directly in the middle of the action, along with why it stands out so much! thanks again for the informative replys!
 

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