Teacher handcuffed leaving school board meeting

[NHdisneylover]

It gets very old hearing teachers complain about pay and working conditions. You know what the pay is all about by the time you are sitting in that first class at the University.

Are you paying any attention--heck the poster right above you explained that it was a much better pay when she started in the profession that it is now.
The teachers in the distrcit where the incident in the OP ocurred have not had any raise (not even cost of living) in over a decade. Etc. It is and has gotten far worse than it was not so very long agao. Plenty of people teaching now had every reason to believe they'd be better able to support themselvs and a family on a teacher's salary at the timne they chose to go into the career than they do now.

 

[sam_gordon]

Invite them to join the DIS and get ALL the other people in that exact profession around the country to join the DIS, and you will see it. What a ridiculous statement. There just happen to be a lot of teachers, a common profession, on the DIS.....so what?

I frequent message boards dedicated to the profession I am in. So 100% (ok, 99%) actually work, or used to work in the profession. There STILL isn't the same level of griping about pay.

And how much exactly are you talking about? How much do you pay?

Some are making just over $20K. And again, that's for 12 months of work.

Either way, I can certainly state my opinion.

As can others.

Every teacher I have ever met teaches because it is a calling not because there is great pay. They truly love helping children reach their potentials. There are some bad apples but that is in every career. Most teachers I know care more about their students than they do about their selves. They can love their jobs and what they do and still want to change the working conditions.

And they are doing something about it. They are making it known that teachers are underpaid. You just don't want to hear it.

My profession is the same way. You don't do it for the money. You do it because you like to.

Yes, you know the pay, but the working conditions have changed drastically from the time some of today's teachers started out. Teaching used to be a job with a lot of creativity, a lot of autonomy, and a lot of respect. But high-stakes testing has changed the curriculum, and teachers have lost the flexibility to structure lessons to their classes and teaching styles. Children have changed, parents have changed, and respect has decreased. Full-time teaching today is very "data-driven" when it used to be "people-driven".

You don't think working conditions have changed drastically in other professions? This is exactly my point. Teachers don't have exclusivity for low pay, increased workload, added demands, etc.

If anything teaching is exactly like many people's jobs over time in terms of what was once a great thing is now not so much. Policies shift and change, rules get tightened, the dreaded acquisition from another company which can completely change how your work environment is depending on who bought your company out, management changes, etc.

QFT

 

[monsterkitty]

It gets very old hearing teachers complain about pay and working conditions. You know what the pay is all about by the time you are sitting in that first class at the University.

Funny you should say that. The "On this day" picture that popped up on my Facebook page today was that of my digital clock that has the room temperature reading. At 3:18 it read 55.4 degrees. That was the warmest it got in my room all day.

I'm not complaining about money. My DH and I have a comfortable life. However, I am going to complain about working conditions because students can't learn when it's freezing cold in a classroom or roasting. My room is really cold in the winter and over 90 in the warmer months, it's not safe and it's not a good learning environment. Think I'm whining? Then come join me and my 45 students on a nice, hot Spring or Fall day.

 

[sam_gordon]

Funny you should say that. The "On this day" picture that popped up on my Facebook page today was that of my digital clock that has the room temperature reading. At 3:18 it read 55.4 degrees. That was the warmest it got in my room all day.

I'm not complaining about money. My DH and I have a comfortable life. However, I am going to complain about working conditions because students can't learn when it's freezing cold in a classroom or roasting. My room is really cold in the winter and over 90 in the warmer months, it's not safe and it's not a good learning environment. Think I'm whining? Then come join me and my 45 students on a nice, hot Spring or Fall day.

I got promoted to management just over two years ago. The first two winters, my office wouldn't get above 55 degrees despite the heat being on all day. I had the HVAC crews out to make sure everything was working. It was. My office was just cold. After two years of suffering, this year I finally got a space heater. Despite temperatures in the teens or single digits, I haven't been cold in my office yet this year. Now, should the company make sure the environment is conducive to work? Of course. But I finally took matters into my own hands and fixed my own problems.

Teachers aren't the only ones suffering through poor pay, cold (or hot) working locations, and not getting respect. Should they be paid more? Yes. Should schools have functioning heat and AC? Yes. But complaining on an anonymous internet message board gets you no where. Find another school. Find another job. Get into administration. Yes, everyone complains about their job. But I swear I don't hear about it as much as I do from teachers.

 

[Hikergirl]

10 years is a long time to go without a raise. It is also a long time to stay at a job if you aren't getting that raise. If year after year you aren't getting a raise and you are watching the money go elsewhere and you stay then isn't that really on you?
I've been out of HS for a long time (25+) years and I remember when I was thinking of going to school for teaching it was known that you didn't make good money and that you may have to move to where the jobs are.
I have 3 teachers in my family, not a single one of them lives where they grew up or where they went to college. 2 of them have taught in 3 different States. They did what they had to do in order to have the salary they thought they deserved.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I am tired of hearing about teachers being poorly paid too. I am tired of hearing that only a handful of districts in high income areas really pay in a way that makes teaching a viable career for somone whose spouse doesn't bring in considerbaly more.


I'd like us to do something about it--and by that I do NOT mean I'd like qualified professional teachers leaving the field so they can make more money (or moving to the distrcits who can afford to better pay them and leaving students in low income areas with lesser educations), by that I mean I would like to see us, as a society, value the education of ALL our children and pay teachers like the professionals they are and providw them the materials and support they need to do their jobs well (including trusting them, those who've studied best practices in education to know how to do their jobs and letting them do so with minimal interference from people who have not studying the field)

 

[Hikergirl]

I am tired of hearing about teachers being poorly paid too. I am tired of hearing that only a handful of districts in high income areas really pay in a way that makes teaching a viable career for somone whose spouse doesn't bring in considerbaly more.


I'd like us to do something about it--and by that I do NOT mean I'd like qualified professional teachers leaving the field so they can make more money (or moving to the distrcits who can afford to better pay them and leaving students in low income areas with lesser educations), by that I mean I would like to see us, as a society, value the aducation of ALL our children and pay teachers like the professionals they are and providw them the materials and support they need to do their jobs well (including trusting them, those who've studied best practices in education to know how to do their jobs and letting them do so with minimal interference from people who have not studying the field)

I had a whole response typed out, but the truth is that it just opens a can of worms that is way too political to discuss here, and I don't want the points.
In a perfect world it would be as you want, but we all know this is not a perfect world, not even close.

 

[because]

We are talking SPED...
This is probably because there are FEDERAL laws regarding SPED, and these are required, and probably can NOT be waived, or the District will be in deep Hooo-Haaah and lose funding.

Of course, I do not for any particular state or district, but I could imagine, in extenuating circumstances, some credentials could be waived for lower level positions???
I wouldn't question or doubt that 'just because'.

nope, not in her case. Some of the positions she was offered were elementary classrooms just to get her foot in the door. She could not get hired in Washington State as a 4th grade elementary teacher without a Washington State teacher's license.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Thanks for the clarification!
It sounds as if the required certification was absolutely necessary for her.

Here, the upper level SPED employees do HAVE to have the necessary credentials.
But, many of the actual SPED Aides in the classrooms are just that... Aides, with no requirements whatsoever.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I had a whole response typed out, but the truth is that it just opens a can of worms that is way too political to discuss here, and I don't want the points.
In a perfect world it would be as you want, but we all know this is not a perfect world, not even close.

true, it's not a perfect world, but we'll never get better if we don't talk about what is wrong because some people are tired of hearing about the problems

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I had a whole response typed out, but the truth is that it just opens a can of worms that is way too political to discuss here, and I don't want the points.
In a perfect world it would be as you want, but we all know this is not a perfect world, not even close.

I too had a long response and while mine wasn't too political I'll just stick with the bolded part of your response

 

[Hikergirl]

true, it's not a perfect world, but we'll never get better if we don't talk about what is wrong because some people are tired of hearing about the problems

I agree, but for me there is just no way to discuss the problems with education without discussing politics.

 

[LSUmiss]

It’s more than just experience, it also education. In KY, you are required to have a Masters Degree by the time you’ve been teaching 10 years or they won’t renew your teaching certificate.

I’m a teacher, and I make good money, but I work in a large urban district. Before I moved and still worked in a rural district, I barely made enough to live on. I didn’t have any kids, but if I had, they would have qualified for free lunch based off my salary.

Yes, my contract says I work 7 hours a day for 194 days. That is not all I work. My contract day is 9-4. I’m always at school by 730 and not out the door until at least 430. I teach 6 classes a day with a 30 minute planning time. There is much more work to be done than I could even begin to get done in 30 minutes of planning a day. So don’t quote an hourly rate based on a 7 hour day. There is not a teacher in the country who doesn’t put in hours outside that 7 hour day.

It think the issue that bugs some ppl is that there are other helping professions who are paid similarly low or lower who also put in more hours than they are paid for but who don’t get as much time off & are not always going on about it (as a group).

 

[NHdisneylover]

I agree, but for me there is just no way to discuss the problems with education without discussing politics.

Well, this thread included quite a bit of discussion about teacher pay, how it stacks up to other professions, the realtive merits of giving large pay rasies to a superindentent when teachers have none, etc without getting politcal. Then all of a sudden Art and Pacotaco and a few others tried to shut down the non political discussion by saying they are tired of hearing about it, people should move or not go into teaching, etc.
Is it all that political of me to say that I disagree with that way of going about it? So far as I know their boredom with the topic is not a political issue.

If you (general you) cannot discuss it in a non political way, fine, don't join in---but I thinl telling others to stop voicing their opinions isn't warranted--especially given that thread is about an issue in which teacher pay is clearly a big part of what spurred the issue in the news.

 

[LSUmiss]

10 years is a long time to go without a raise. It is also a long time to stay at a job if you aren't getting that raise. If year after year you aren't getting a raise and you are watching the money go elsewhere and you stay then isn't that really on you?
I've been out of HS for a long time (25+) years and I remember when I was thinking of going to school for teaching it was known that you didn't make good money and that you may have to move to where the jobs are.
I have 3 teachers in my family, not a single one of them lives where they grew up or where they went to college. 2 of them have taught in 3 different States. They did what they had to do in order to have the salary they thought they deserved.

I think it’s 2 different conversations though. Complaining about pay compared to other professions & complaining about pay when you are watching administrators collect that $ when you haven’t had a raise in 10 years. Think most are more sympathetic to the latter as that can apply to any profession.

 

[Hikergirl]

If you (general you) cannot discuss it in a non political way, fine, don't join in---but I thinl telling others to stop voicing their opinions isn't warranted--especially given that thread is about an issue in which teacher pay is clearly a big part of what spurred the issue in the news.

I don't think anyone here has said you should stop voicing your opinions.
The fact is that education is tied to politics, those salaries are being paid by tax payers, the people on the school boards, the annual budgets are being voted on by tax payers. This is not a for profit private industry we are discussing here, so while you can discuss things the bottom line is it is political and if you really want to discuss the problem within the system you have to discuss the politics that are tied into it.
Otherwise it doesn't seem like a very meaningful discussion if one wants to truly address the problems.

 

[Hikergirl]

I think it’s 2 different conversations though. Complaining about pay compared to other professions & complaining about pay when you are watching administrators collect that $ when you haven’t had a raise in 10 years. Think most are more sympathetic to the latter as that can apply to any profession.

Agreed, however it isn't like that for teachers all over so there is a reason why it is happening where it is.
The teachers here make a very good salary, and the negotiate their pay every few years (not sure the exact number). Our Superintendent makes a very high salary, but it is not outrageous compared to what the teachers makes, and he isn't getting raises every year while the teachers are not.

 

[DisneyHardin]

I didn't state hourly rate. I said I have people with 30+ years of experience making less. And that's assuming 52 weeks of 40 hours/week (yes, they get vacation). So folks WITH experience, working at least as many hours as teachers, if not more are making less than the "entry level" teacher pay posted earlier. I'm comparing ANNUAL salary.

You stated upthread that teachers made an average of $19/hr.

 

[LSUmiss]

Agreed, however it isn't like that for teachers all over so there is a reason why it is happening where it is.
The teachers here make a very good salary, and the negotiate their pay every few years (not sure the exact number). Our Superintendent makes a very high salary, but it is not outrageous compared to what the teachers makes, and he isn't getting raises every year while the teachers are not.

Oh no I agree & it is absolutely political here...almost everything is. And in my area only those who have to use the public school system (it might be different in that parish) use it. So then it’s even worse b/c tax payers don’t want to fund it b/c they’ve given up on using it.

 

[MillauFr]

true, it's not a perfect world, but we'll never get better if we don't talk about what is wrong because some people are tired of hearing about the problems

Agreed. It seems like people don't like when people speak up about injustice. If everyone kept their mouth shut some people would still be forced to sit at the back of the bus.