Testing the Waters

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Thank you to everyone (-1) for your responses. I agree with those that said I may be making more of this than actually exists. I used to use alcohol to dull the feelings of rejection and now I may be hyper-sensitive to those.

I truly believe that this will work itself out. I'm basically relearning how to live after 30 years of VERY HEAVY drinking. I won't say it's easy, but the sobriety isn't difficult. The difficulty is learning how to be "normal." I'm recovering from depression and I have really bad anxiety. I also have PTSD from a former job. I guess I have the perfect cocktail (pun? intended:) for a really tough past and tough road ahead!

Also, I know that disboards can get pretty heated at times with some insults thrown around, so I was hesitant to post this. But, I have to say, almost everyone here has been very constructive and supportive. Thanks for not barraging me with insults and telling me I suck because I used to like "Stitch's Great Escape."

Disclaimer: I went to Disney last Saturday to see it for the last time, and yes, it is a disaster of an attraction :)
 
For those of you who were salivating, thinking that this was a marriage, sex or family issue, sorry too disappoint.


I am a current graduate student at a prominent university. I am also older than most graduate students and a recovering alcoholic (around 3 months).Last semester, I took a medical leave of absence because I suffered a pretty severe relapse and needed to get healthy and revaluate/reprioritize my life. I was completely honest with faculty, staff and fellow students/members of my cohort.

Upon my return to school 3 days ago, I was treated great by faculty. There are, however, members of my cohort that either refuse to look at me or give me dirty looks and ignore me. This kind of pisses me off. I'm putting a lot of blame on it being a "millennial" thing... these kids have not had life experience, most have never had to face a challenge in their lives and think that they have the right to look down on me.

I've also read "The Four Agreements," a Toltec wisdom book. One of the agreements that you are supposed to make with yourself is to not take things personally. It states that people who treat you wrongly do so because they see something in you that they see in themselves that they don't like.

I also understand that, though I had no intentions of doing so, I put my cohort though something substantial by going on a medical leave.. at least I think I did. So they may be reacting to that.

Finally, it may be that some just don't like me, don't believe that I put the effort into getting better, etc...

I'm not sure how to react to and handle this. When class starts, I am happy because the professors are very friendly with me (I should state that I am 40 years old and the oldest member of my cohort). However, when I'm waiting to go to class, I am treated like a pariah. It is extremely disheartening. It feels awful to be around a group of people who clearly don't want you around and exclude you from things (including group emails that contain good and important information regarding class material). I so badly want to drop out to avoid 3.5 more years of this, but I know that, if I do that, they win.

Any thoughts/advice? How do I get through 3 and a half years of being an outcast? Believe me, I know what being an outcast is... I was in elementary, middle and high schools. I thought that things would change in a Ph.D. program, though.

Thanks for listening.

I recommend taking a more humble approach.

Calling yourself an outcast is a way to over dramatize the situation to us and yourself. Do you have mental illness? I hear some painful depression in those words.

Instead, consider your age and the path that you created for yourself. People are gun shy and trust needs to be earned back, esp. if you let people "hanging" with information or a project.

Also oversharing your situation can scare people. You have to own that.

Congrats on your sobriety. Hang in there.
 
I recommend taking a more humble approach.

Calling yourself an outcast is a way to over dramatize the situation to us and yourself. Do you have mental illness? I hear some painful depression in those words.

Instead, consider your age and the path that you created for yourself. People are gun shy and trust needs to be earned back, esp. if you let people "hanging" with information or a project.

Also oversharing your situation can scare people. You have to own that.

Congrats on your sobriety. Hang in there.

I absolutely agree... I've always taken pride in not being ashamed of my disease and being willing to share the details of it, but there is a line that is not to be crossed. Again, I'm navigating unchartered waters and stumbling a bit.

As Garth Brooks said, "I'm not big on social graces..."

I try though
 
With the stream of positive, constructive messages in this thread, I knew there would eventually be one person that would not be able to resist the urge to be negative. I am not ignorant. For the sake of the thread I'll hold any further comment toward you. Please don't bother replying any further.
I'm very sorry I'm your (-1) person. I wasn't calling you ignorant, I was saying that you saying

these kids have not had life experience, most have never had to face a challenge in their lives and think that they have the right to look down on me.

was ignorant. "Millennials" are people born between 1981 and 1997. Again, as I said before, just because someone is younger than you it does not mean they've not faced challenges nor does it mean they look down on you. As other posters have said the same thing, I assume you found my comment negative because I called the assumption that younger people have faced no adversity and automatically look down on people who have, ignorant.

Again, was not meaning to imply you are ignorant but I feel that sentiment to be.
 


Congratulations! I can only imagine how tough your walk is with sobriety. I am a moderate drinker and decided not to drink this month. That is no comparison to you and am I am finding it difficult. I think for me it became more of a habit and crutch during a difficult period of my life. I have several thoughts about your situation. Firstly, I went to graduate school as an older adult and found it difficult to form relationships with my peers. I was already in the work force, married, etc... we did not have that much in common. With time and small banter my relationship became closer. Eventually they saw me someone who was older and wiser. Secondly, when people first find out something so personal about someone it can be difficult to know what to say. I think that will change as well. I think often times people are so afraid of saying the wrong thing they say nothing. Lastly, try to remember the place you are coming from. When people are anxious they have a tendency to replay in their minds what makes them feel that way. If you play it over and over at some point it becomes reality to you even if it is not realistic at all. When you start feeling that way put your mind on something else. This a very small bump don’t let it bring you down!!!
 
I recomend you find a good therapist (if you are not seeing one already) to help you learn how to be "normal" and not overreact or hyper focus on things, etc.

I agree with others that most of the cohort is just going on about their lives and not consciousoy excluding you at all (but some may be uncomfortable and/or unsure what to say to you given the level of oversharing about your problems). It's been THREE DAYS. No one is going to be all enmeshed with a group that has spent a semester working together as a newcommer in only three day and three days tells you nothing about what will happen for the next three and a half years (how long is this program anyway? A grad degree usually takes 2 years doesn't it?).

Finally, I have to agree with other that your assumptions about millenials are off base and I wil add that if that attitudfe is coming out towards them in some way that they see, well, they might well avoid you for that at some future point--no one wants to hang out with someone constantly looking down on them for no real reason.

But. mostly, you are freaking out about YEARS in the future based on THREE DAYS of things not clicking instantly now. Major overkill, and a clear indicator that you need a therapist to help you understand normal and moderate reactions.

Good luck
 
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I am a little more awake now, so want to try to come at this more fully.

First off, I do assume (hope) you are working with a therapist as long term support for your issues. I strongly suggest that, in addition, you head to the campus mental health center (today if possible, often sign ups for groups things happen in the first week of classes and meetings begin the next week). I suggest you ask about, and try to join:

1. a group therapy/workshop on building social skills
2. a support group for non traditional/older students
3. a support group for those with a history of substance abuse.



Next, I want to reiterate that your reactions are FAR over the top. For you, you returning to the program was the BIGGEST thing going on---it's a huge deal for you. What you do not seem to recognize is that for the others in your cohort it is barely a blip on their radars. They're likely busy figuring out their new schedules, catching up with friends they bonded with last semester, etc. Most who are "ignoring" or "refusing to look at " you are probably just caught up in their own lives and simply not noticing (and it is NOT their job to make a special effort and focus on you instead of their own lives).
Maybe some really are giving you dirty looks and do not like you, but my guess is that you are likely also overreacting to this---many may simply be uncomfortable and not know what to say to you after all that over sharring, so they look/feel awkward. A few may even recognize that you seem to feel put out, want to help and not know how. Others might well be picking up on a vibe from you in which your thoughts about them as mellenials indicates you do not like (or look down on) them and be responding to that criticism by, well, yeah, not liking it very much.
I highly doubt ANY of them have thought "ooooh, let's exclude this person for three and a half years and treat him like a pariah" Quite honestly you are giving far more importance to yourself in their worlds than you have.

As far as being left out of group emails? It's highly unlikely to be malicious. Most people create shortcuts to email a group and just do it on autopilot. The fact that people did not, in the first three days back, of their own accord, think to add you into the precreated list is not some big slight--it's just normal.

Finally, you might never be as close to much of the group as many are with one another, for several reaosns, including:

-you missed out on the bonding early on when you were out sick. This is not your fault, or theirs, it is just reality
-your attitude towards their entire generation, which you made pretty clear in your first post of what the issue is
-being a different generation you might well have differnent musical taste, movie taste, financiancial, work and family obligations, etc which stunt socializing
-alcohol is often present in social situations with grad students and they may hesitate to invite you to things that include it, given all you've shared with them
-they might be uncomfortable around you due to your prior oversharring about your issues

If you were drinking heavily while in classes with them before taking the leave of absence it is also possible that you said or did things that were hurtful to some of them while you were inebriated and some may carry over negative feelings from that as well (and understandably so if such happened)


With the stream of positive, constructive messages in this thread, I knew there would eventually be one person that would not be able to resist the urge to be negative. I am not ignorant. For the sake of the thread I'll hold any further comment toward you. Please don't bother replying any further.

Sigh---this is exactly the type of thing I was posting about in my early post (see below). On a discussion board you do not get to tell people not to comment, nor can you share your issues and ask for advice and then legitimately be angry at someone whose advice or opinion you do not like or you see as "negative"
Quite honestly, assumning that you are ignorant (unaware) of the many serious life issues that many millenials have lived through or are living through and that said ignorance is the reason for your comments is the kindest and most benign intrepretation of what you said.

So it appears your post has been moved to the COmmunity Board. Welcome! All sorts of threads happen here ande very few have anyhting to do with Disney. Lots of people ask for life advice. Fair warning, if you lay out your problem you are likely to get honest advice from many, it seems often posters do not like the advice/commentary/questions they get and seek to control the discussion or limit it to only supporting their view point. It doesn't work that way. If you share---you WILL see posts from all sorts of perspectives, and some might be critical of you or ask questions you don't want to think about.
If you are up for really hearing what people think, by all means post.
 
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Welcome. I hear an awful lot of low self-esteem in your posts. And not surprisingly, as you've admitted yourself, that may have contributed to your abusing alcohol in the first place. So it would absolutely behoove you to work on that aspect of your being while you work on continuing to abstain from alcohol. And I do wish you the best of luck with both. I know it's not easy.

From my being around people I know who are alcoholic, it seems to me their thinking can be off. I've read that long term alcohol abuse can cause changes in the brain so that's something to think about. Basically you'll have to reprogram your thinking. And to do that, you'll need counseling and an open mind toward what's being said and worked on. Again, not easy, but many have done it successfully, and I believe you can, too.

https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa63/aa63.htm

I agree with what's been said about your fellow students. I think you're projecting. When I was in college I went to programs that had a lot of older students, and I wasn't a traditional student myself. I also have two in college now who also are in programs where there are eclectic mixes of students. It's interesting hearing their experiences. DD20 is doing an online winter break class now and at first she was a little worried because it seemed nobody was responding to her online posts. Eventually people did. She had to keep an open mind about it and realize that it really isn't all about her. Certain things will resonate with some and not others so naturally some are drawn to certain posts, subjects, styles, lines of thinking, etc. (It's like that here, too!)

I think, to a degree, we all tend to think this way sometimes, but it's really not all about us all the time. There are so many other group dynamics going on that we don't even know about at any given time. I think your energy would be better spent just trying to work your way back into the cohort and to find your place in it than to perseverate over who is or isn't looking at your or talking to you, etc. If you could see the actual goings on of the group, you'd realize some of them aren't feeling 100% comfortable, either, or they are irritated with others for other reasons, etc. This is part of a normal group dynamic. I see it all the time in my own work situations and I sometimes have to remind myself, too, it's not all about me, either. Once you start talking to people, you realize there's a lot of other things going on at any given time that have absolutely nothing to do with you. Hopefully this makes sense. So try not to take it personally and just forge forward. It would be a shame to drop out over something like that. Be sure it's not just an excuse.

Hang in there. :shamrock:
 
So, some things to think about:

Why do you think cohort would be affected by your leave of absence? How integral is it that you all stay together as a group? This isn't something that I particularly noticed in college. I did not pay particular attention to other students leaving or not being in class, etc. And I went to a small school (1,200 people in the entire college!). So I'm curious why you would think these other students even noticed or cared that you were gone. Did you wrong these students in any way while suffering from alcoholism? Then again, I was an undergraduate, so I'm not sure how different things would be in graduate school.

I do understand being hurt by other people's attitude. When my mom was struggling with alcohol, there were lots of whispers around the neighborhood, which eventually got to the school and some of the jerkier students would harass me about my mom being a drunk. You have to try to not let this affect you, because it will just make things worse. I agree with @NHdisneylover about seeing a therapist. Remember these students will move on with their lives eventually. As a graduate student, you'll see them for 2 years, max, right? Then everybody moves on.

But you also have to recognize that some, if not all, of these student aren't even mad or looking down on you. They probably don't even know why you were on leave. Unless you had some embarrassing alcohol-related moment in class or something. Hell, some of them probably don't even know your name!

As for "millennials not struggling", generations are marketing tools. Just remember that. It's all nonsense. Were you born in 1981 or later? Guess what, you're "a millennial". Whatever that means.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/04/01/your-generational-identity-is-a-lie
 
Perhaps the wife came back when the OP stopped drinking? (though if that is why she left, coming back and then planning to drink with him on NYE seems very odd).

OP----if you know you have a tendency to lash out at people irrationally when oyu are sad, then that might well be a reason some in your cohort are not liking you now (if, in fact, any DO actively dislike you, which is not something you could really know based on three days of not much). Even sober, of you are battling severe depression, you might well have said hurtful things to people and alienated someone.

Your prior thread makes it sound like you stopped drinking at home and mostly on your own. I do truly hope you have medical help and are seeing someone (or multiple people) regularly for help.


However, sometimes sadness causes you to lash out in an irrational manner. I suspect that people here aren’t responding to me because I was irrational. I’m sorry.
.

If you were drinking heavily while in classes with them before taking the leave of absence it is also possible that you said or did things that were hurtful to some of them while you were inebriated and some may carry over negative feelings from that as well (and understandably so if such happened)
.
 
For those of you who were salivating, thinking that this was a marriage, sex or family issue, sorry too disappoint.


I am a current graduate student at a prominent university. I am also older than most graduate students and a recovering alcoholic (around 3 months).Last semester, I took a medical leave of absence because I suffered a pretty severe relapse and needed to get healthy and revaluate/reprioritize my life. I was completely honest with faculty, staff and fellow students/members of my cohort.

Upon my return to school 3 days ago, I was treated great by faculty. There are, however, members of my cohort that either refuse to look at me or give me dirty looks and ignore me. This kind of pisses me off. I'm putting a lot of blame on it being a "millennial" thing... these kids have not had life experience, most have never had to face a challenge in their lives and think that they have the right to look down on me.

I've also read "The Four Agreements," a Toltec wisdom book. One of the agreements that you are supposed to make with yourself is to not take things personally. It states that people who treat you wrongly do so because they see something in you that they see in themselves that they don't like.

I also understand that, though I had no intentions of doing so, I put my cohort though something substantial by going on a medical leave.. at least I think I did. So they may be reacting to that.

Finally, it may be that some just don't like me, don't believe that I put the effort into getting better, etc...

I'm not sure how to react to and handle this. When class starts, I am happy because the professors are very friendly with me (I should state that I am 40 years old and the oldest member of my cohort). However, when I'm waiting to go to class, I am treated like a pariah. It is extremely disheartening. It feels awful to be around a group of people who clearly don't want you around and exclude you from things (including group emails that contain good and important information regarding class material). I so badly want to drop out to avoid 3.5 more years of this, but I know that, if I do that, they win.

Any thoughts/advice? How do I get through 3 and a half years of being an outcast? Believe me, I know what being an outcast is... I was in elementary, middle and high schools. I thought that things would change in a Ph.D. program, though.

Thanks for listening.
If you're older than most graduate students, you might want to correct your profile. It says you are 19.
 
I'm very sorry I'm your (-1) person. I wasn't calling you ignorant, I was saying that you saying



was ignorant. "Millennials" are people born between 1981 and 1997. Again, as I said before, just because someone is younger than you it does not mean they've not faced challenges nor does it mean they look down on you. As other posters have said the same thing, I assume you found my comment negative because I called the assumption that younger people have faced no adversity and automatically look down on people who have, ignorant.

Again, was not meaning to imply you are ignorant but I feel that sentiment to be.

Thank you for clarifying.. you're allowed compost on my thread again :)
 
So, some things to think about:

Why do you think cohort would be affected by your leave of absence? How integral is it that you all stay together as a group? This isn't something that I particularly noticed in college. I did not pay particular attention to other students leaving or not being in class, etc. And I went to a small school (1,200 people in the entire college!). So I'm curious why you would think these other students even noticed or cared that you were gone. Did you wrong these students in any way while suffering from alcoholism? Then again, I was an undergraduate, so I'm not sure how different things would be in graduate school.

I do understand being hurt by other people's attitude. When my mom was struggling with alcohol, there were lots of whispers around the neighborhood, which eventually got to the school and some of the jerkier students would harass me about my mom being a drunk. You have to try to not let this affect you, because it will just make things worse. I agree with @NHdisneylover about seeing a therapist. Remember these students will move on with their lives eventually. As a graduate student, you'll see them for 2 years, max, right? Then everybody moves on.

But you also have to recognize that some, if not all, of these student aren't even mad or looking down on you. They probably don't even know why you were on leave. Unless you had some embarrassing alcohol-related moment in class or something. Hell, some of them probably don't even know your name!

As for "millennials not struggling", generations are marketing tools. Just remember that. It's all nonsense. Were you born in 1981 or later? Guess what, you're "a millennial". Whatever that means.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/04/01/your-generational-identity-is-a-lie

No, I was born before 1981. In regard to your first paragraph, I have done a lot of reading and I've found that there is some evidence that even little things that cause change or disruption can have a ripple-like effect, which I am assuming happened in my cohort. I never went to class drunk, but yes, I did send drunk texts. None of them were insulting, but I found that I was trying not to act "my age" in an attempt to win them over. I will address your next post in my next post, as I don't know how to merge the two!
 
First, my wife came back about three weeks after she left. My relapse was caused by her leaving, which caused me to withdraw from school.

When people don't know about my problem, I tend to act and speak as if I am "normal." In other, words, I'll say "We" had drinks, etc. The reason I was asking the questions on here about NYE is because I did;t entirely trust myself NOT to drink and I wanted to make sure I had a safe and responsible back up plan.
 
Perhaps the wife came back when the OP stopped drinking? (though if that is why she left, coming back and then planning to drink with him on NYE seems very odd).

OP----if you know you have a tendency to lash out at people irrationally when oyu are sad, then that might well be a reason some in your cohort are not liking you now (if, in fact, any DO actively dislike you, which is not something you could really know based on three days of not much). Even sober, of you are battling severe depression, you might well have said hurtful things to people and alienated someone.

Your prior thread makes it sound like you stopped drinking at home and mostly on your own. I do truly hope you have medical help and are seeing someone (or multiple people) regularly for help.

Yes, I did it at home, on my own. However, to answer the other issue that many others have posted as well, I am seeing three different counselors... One at the school counseling center, one at student outreach and I am seeing a psych Dr. who has prescribed me Naltrexone (initially developed for opiate addiction, but found to be effective in alcoholics).
 
Thank you for clarifying.. you're allowed compost on my thread again :)

HA HA... sorry. I know I could have just edited that to fix the auto-correct error, but I thought it was too funny not to leave in!

I meant that you're allowed to post on my thread again!
 
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