The great “mask” debate

[macraven]

The UO boards are calmer when it comes to controversial topics.
Most times all are respectful and civil.

Any thread can be closed by the moderator for threads that escalate and become heated.

I read all threads but I do not post in all of them.

Since you are giving your opinion, I’ll repeat what I said before.....
Their parks, their rules I will follow.

Nothing we say will change that.

 

[helenb]

This is also why i think with both uni and Disney that the masks requirement won't last long. All this is just a political gesture. They know the backlash they'd get from the mainstream media if they didn't require it. The moment the think they won't get much backlash, they'll relent on the requirements. It's like the temperature check. I bet they won't find many they'll have to deny entry to. The reason we're told to wear a mask is because we could be asymptomatic right? Well, that goes the same with this, we're not going to be running a fever if we have it and don't show any symptoms. It's all symbolic, it makes them look better.

I agree. People who have not yet shown symptoms can still spread the virus for 1-2 weeks beforehand. My chiropractor's office takes my temperature every time I go in. I asked the doctor if it actually did anything, because she and I could both be ill right now and not know it and have a temperature, and she agreed completely. But she said that they needed to take the temperature for legal liability reasons. That makes complete sense to me as well. Unfortunately, it's just like security theatre with the TSA at the airport, only this is now Covid theatre.

ETA This is a great article on the subject.

https://themeparkuniversity.com/the...e-parks-deny-you-entry-without-wearing-masks/

 

[osufeth24]

The UO boards are calmer when it comes to controversial topics.
Most times all are respectful and civil.

Any thread can be closed by the moderator for threads that escalate and become heated.

I read all threads but I do not post in all of them.

Since you are giving your opinion, I’ll repeat what I said before.....
Their parks, their rules I will follow.

Nothing we say will change that.

Oh I agree. That's why I basically led with that point lol. I'll wear it anyway because I wanna go.

Most of it is I hate the virtual bullying people get for not wanting to wear it (not on these boards, but just go to places like reddit, etc).

 

[osufeth24]

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372?query=featured_secondary
In reference to about shaky evidence, here's an article about how they don't really offer protection for either person

 

[macraven]

I quit reading the numerous releases about “do I mask or not”

If a mask is require to places I need or want to go, I wear them.
If they don’t, it depends on a flip of a coin.

 

[TommyJK]

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372?query=featured_secondary
In reference to about shaky evidence, here's an article about how they don't really offer protection for either person

I read the whole article and masks being ineffective is not the message I got from reading it at all.

Firstly the crux of the article is about effectiveness to protect the wearer in the confines of hospitals surrounded by many people who for certain have Covid 19 (the title itself is Universal Masking in Hospitals in the Covid-19 Era) . It doesn't speak much if at all about their potential usefullnes outside of those settings.

But even in those settings the article does not outright say they are ineffective. It speaks to the use of them alone without the other precautions being potentially problematic (if you ignore the other measures needed to go with it) and they go over all of the things that should be done together to help including "Such measures include vigorous screening of all patients coming to a facility for symptoms of Covid-19 and immediately getting them masked and into a room". If not effective in the attempt to prevent spread from someone who may have it, why recommend to immediately put the patient in a mask?

And in the end they don't say masks are not effective. They outright say in the summary near the end. "The extent of marginal benefit of universal masking over and above these foundational measures is debatable." and they further say "... potential benefits of universal masking need to be balanced against the future risk of running out of masks and thereby exposing clinicians to the much greater risk of caring for symptomatic patients without a mask". So they're not ruling out that masks can be beneficial acknowledging there is "potential benefit" and that it's still up for debate.

 

[osufeth24]

I won't disagree, but as I said before, it's all on shaky evidence. And that's what bothers me most about all this. LIke i said before, we've gone from the CDC and Fauci saying don't wear a mask if you're not sick, it does more harm than good (btw, this has been true for every other epidemic prior). To now, we're the devil and we don't care about peoples lives if we don't wear one.

If a store or a park wants it to be required, it's their right, I'm not arguing that. It's bullying and blanket polices we're doing. And I think we all know if it wouldn't be for the bad pr, these parks wouldn't make it mandatory.

 

[Anna H]

I hope the parks aren't persuaded by mask protests. It's all we are going to have. CDC says surfaces aren't a main source of spread so that leaves air particles as a real concern. Those can be reduced by masks. I don't think masks should be required outside if everyone keeps distance but definitely inside. I never had a problem keeping away outside even when it was busy but got stuck in many lines with coughing people.

 

[macraven]

For Universal to keep the parks staffed and safe, they are requiring employees to wear masks.
(Temperature checks, shorter park hours, more breaks, hand washing, sanitized rides frequently, etc)

We won’t know what will be added until after this trial period is completed.

It is easier to lessen the mask requirements in the future if covid 19 is no longer a possibility or threat.

 

[osufeth24]

For Universal to keep the parks staffed and safe, they are requiring employees to wear masks.
(Temperature checks, shorter park hours, more breaks, hand washing, sanitized rides frequently, etc)

We won’t know what will be added until after this trial period is completed.

It is easier to lessen the mask requirements in the future if covid 19 is no longer a possibility or threat.

No disagreement there

Personally don't think the requirements will last that long, but that's just what I believe in, and probably sets up a whole other discussion I'm not going into on this forum and thread.

 

[macraven]

Agree and I know it could be a few weeks or months to know how long restrictions will be in place.

It’s one of the unknowns in life at the present time until maybe when vaccines are available and will make us safer.

 

[TommyJK]

Agree and I know it could be a few weeks or months to know how long restrictions will be in place.

It’s one of the unknowns in life at the present time until maybe when vaccines are available and will make us safer.

We all also need to consider that restrictions could increase (ie they shut the parks down again) if numbers climb heavily in the coming weeks/months.

 

[osufeth24]

There should be zero reason to shutdown again. We shutdown because hospitals weren't prepared and afraid of being overwhelmed. They're prepared now.

If we shutdown again might as well pack it in. Our future is gone forever

 

[TommyJK]

There should be zero reason to shutdown again. We shutdown because hospitals weren't prepared and afraid of being overwhelmed. They're prepared now.

If we shutdown again might as well pack it in. Our future is gone forever

Hospitals are better equipped now, but they don't have limitless staff, ICU beds etc.

If case load spikes again sharply beyond even an increased hospital capacity, things can get shut down again.

Maybe not a complete shut down, but if measures need to be taken again to curb a new spike, you can bet that places of mass gatherings (like amusement parks) will be the first to get closed again.

 

[osufeth24]

If they do that then I wouldn't be surprised if they never reopen again

 

[TommyJK]

If they do that then I wouldn't be surprised if they never reopen again

I wouldn't go that far. We'd eventually get to either herd immunity or a vaccine.

 

[macraven]

We all also need to consider that restrictions could increase (ie they shut the parks down again) if numbers climb heavily in the coming weeks/months.

I realize that also.

I lean towards the thought this virus might be with us a long time.
Could be a future vaccine a year from now will help some but not all.

I’m not going to live my life in fear but will be sensible in what I do.

If things escalate in the future and UO has to shut down, I’ll adjust to that situation after the shock wears off.

 

[Mousequake]

I won't disagree, but as I said before, it's all on shaky evidence. And that's what bothers me most about all this. LIke i said before, we've gone from the CDC and Fauci saying don't wear a mask if you're not sick, it does more harm than good (btw, this has been true for every other epidemic prior). To now, we're the devil and we don't care about peoples lives if we don't wear one.

But that's how these things work. When new information comes to lightt, you adjust recommendations accordingly. Would you expect them to NOT make adjustments to recommendations as they discover more about the disease?

The first round of recommendations against wearing masks were saying not to wear one to protect yourself, because they're ineffective at that. Once more info became available that asymptomatic carriers could spread the disease, the primary concern became not preventing an infection in the wearer of the mask, but preventing the wearer of the mask from spreading to others. Hence the new recommendation to wear masks, because while they're not effective at preventing the wearer from getting infected, they ARE effective at preventing the wearer from transmitting the virus to others.

BTW, here's some good research behind the effectiveness of masks:

1. Gunnel AB et al. To mask or not to mask: Modeling the potential for face mask use by the general public to curtail the COVID-19 pandemic. Inf Dis Model 5;293-308.
2. Tracht SMDV, Hyman J. Mathematical modeling of the effectiveness of facemasks in reducing the spread of novel influenza A (H1N1). PLoS One 2010;5(2)e:9018.
3. Kim SH et al. Effectiveness of Surgical and Cotton Masks in Blocking SARS–CoV-2: A Controlled Comparison in 4 Patients. Ann Int Med https://doi.org/10.7326/M20-1342
4. Leung NHL et al. Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and the efficacy of face masks. Nat. Med. 2020. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41591-020-0843-2
5. Long Y, Hu T, Liu L, Chen R, Guo Q, Yang L, Cheng Y, Huang J, Du L. Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks against influenza: a systematic review and meta‐analysis. J. Evid. Based Med. 2020. Mar 13. https://doi.org/10.1111/jebm.12381
6. Davies A, Thompson K‐A, Giri K, Kafatos G, Walker J, Bennett A. Testing the efficacy of homemade masks: would they protect in an influenza pandemic? Disaster Med. Public Health Prep. 2013; 7: 413– 8.
7. Ma Q‐X, Shan H, Zhang H‐L, Li G‐M, Yang R‐M, Chen J‐M. Potential utilities of mask wearing and instant hand hygiene for fighting SARS‐CoV‐2. J. Med. Virol. 2020 Mar 31. https://doi.org/10.1002/jmv.25805

 

[schumigirl]

The UO boards are calmer when it comes to controversial topics.
Most times all are respectful and civil.

Any thread can be closed by the moderator for threads that escalate and become heated.

I read all threads but I do not post in all of them.

Since you are giving your opinion, I’ll repeat what I said before.....
Their parks, their rules I will follow.

Nothing we say will change that.

And that`s the whole situation in a nutshell......

Some of these back and forward arguments we have seen on other boards where folks get annoyed with the opposite opinion are pointless. No one who thinks one way is going to change the opinions of others.

For me, I certainly wouldn't be reading or trusting opinions from several unqualified folks on a Disney website who have the opinion they are experts...….we can all produce evidence to show any opinion we like if we look.

Bottom line...….as mac has said on numerous occasions, their park their rules. If you don't like it don`t go.

 

[Anna H]

This is why requiring masks inside but not outside is a perfect compromise. Disney would be reckless to let go of safety measures before we've come anywhere close to eliminating the threat. I don't predict that this virus is going to go away this summer and re-opening anything will inevitably increase case numbers above what we've been seeing in lockdown. Common sense safety: indoor masks, hand sanitizer stations everywhere, spacing people out, and reducing congestion wherever possible.