The great “mask” debate

[keishashadow]

OT but had to address the comments re workers wanting to sit home and collect state & federal benefits...

https://www.savingtoinvest.com/maximum-weekly-unemployment-benefits-by-state/
$275 per week, less federal taxes, is the max amount in the state of FL.

In theory, if you combine that with $600 from the fed govt, a minimum wage park worker might just break even

Speaking from personal experience here..

my DH volunteered to take a lay-off so a younger coworker (under a different bargaining contract who was in danger of losing his health benefits could come back to work). No tears for us, we are Doing just fine & he’s surely enjoying the time off work

However, there is absolutely no guarantee of work-related medical benefits continuing when a person is laid off. that is where you can really fall down the rabbit hole if a medical situation pops up.

Additionally, It’s a huge problem that many who were furloughed in the middle of March haven’t seen a dime in UC benefits. The state systems are that backed up. How many of those low income workers have savings to carry them for the 2-1/2 months so far they’ve been waiting?

I’m willing to bet that the vast majority of those workers are praying for the opportunity to get back out there, masks firmly planted on face, to resume their lives

 

[tony67]

OT but had to address the comments re workers wanting to sit home and collect state & federal benefits...

https://www.savingtoinvest.com/maximum-weekly-unemployment-benefits-by-state/
$275 per week, less federal taxes, is the max amount in the state of FL.

In theory, if you combine that with $600 from the fed govt, a minimum wage park worker might just break even

Speaking from personal experience here..

my DH volunteered to take a lay-off so a younger coworker (under a different bargaining contract who was in danger of losing his health benefits could come back to work). No tears for us, we are Doing just fine & he’s surely enjoying the time off work

However, there is absolutely no guarantee of work-related medical benefits continuing when a person is laid off. that is where you can really fall down the rabbit hole if a medical situation pops up.

Additionally, It’s a huge problem that many who were furloughed in the middle of March haven’t seen a dime in UC benefits. The state systems are that backed up. How many of those low income workers have savings to carry them for the 2-1/2 months so far they’ve been waiting?

I’m willing to bet that the vast majority of those workers are praying for the opportunity to get back out there, masks firmly planted on face, to resume their lives

I don't disagree with you in theory. If you have health benefits with your job that is a big factor no doubt.
Keep in mind part time employees get the full 600 as well - it is not pro-rated - and many (most?) part timers dont get health benefits.
If you get $1 in unemployment benefits you get the extra $600.
I personally know people making more than double what they made working part time just under 30 hours per week.

Of course the system has to work as you have pointed out - in my state they got rid of the waiting week and you never missed a check.

 

[nouvellefleur]

But that's how these things work. When new information comes to lightt, you adjust recommendations accordingly. Would you expect them to NOT make adjustments to recommendations as they discover more about the disease?

The first round of recommendations against wearing masks were saying not to wear one to protect yourself, because they're ineffective at that. Once more info became available that asymptomatic carriers could spread the disease, the primary concern became not preventing an infection in the wearer of the mask, but preventing the wearer of the mask from spreading to others. Hence the new recommendation to wear masks, because while they're not effective at preventing the wearer from getting infected, they ARE effective at preventing the wearer from transmitting the virus to others.

Exactly - that's how science works! Things change as theories are tested. If they didn't I'd still be able to swig opium from a bottle when I have a headache.

When it all comes down to it, I'm going to consider guidelines from health experts and medical professionals to have more weight than the opinion of some guy on Facebook who's sharing an unsourced YouTube video. The national and international scientific community, my local doctors and health professionals, the girl I went to high school with who now works at the CDC - they say you should wear a mask when you can in order to slow the spread. They have decades of education and practical experience. Their examination of the facts is more trustworthy than some random dude on social media who sneers "do your research" when questioned.

And when it comes down to the "bullying" of not wearing a mask. Is it really bullying? Or is it expressing frustration and disbelief at the cavalier disregard to the health and safety of others in preference of their nebulously defined "freedoms"? It cuts both ways, too, you know, with real world effects - I haven't seen any in-person bullying of people not wearing masks. But I have been yelled at for wearing a mask by a pair of dudes in truck as they raced past me in the grocery store parking lot. My friend in upstate NY was cussed out in a tirade in which the most repeatable phrase was "liberal snowflake" for wearing a mask.

As a relatively healthy and young person, an inconvenience on my part could prevent a serious illness in someone else. What do I owe to the vulnerable people in my community? The inconvenience of wearing a mask so that they can leave the house for the first time in 12 weeks? I can do that.

 

[osufeth24]

But that's how these things work. When new information comes to lightt, you adjust recommendations accordingly. Would you expect them to NOT make adjustments to recommendations as they discover more about the disease?

The first round of recommendations against wearing masks were saying not to wear one to protect yourself, because they're ineffective at that. Once more info became available that asymptomatic carriers could spread the disease, the primary concern became not preventing an infection in the wearer of the mask, but preventing the wearer of the mask from spreading to others. Hence the new recommendation to wear masks, because while they're not effective at preventing the wearer from getting infected, they ARE effective at preventing the wearer from transmitting the virus to others.

BTW, here's some good research behind the effectiveness of masks:

1. Gunnel AB et al. To mask or not to mask: Modeling the potential for face mask use by the general public to curtail the COVID-19 pandemic. Inf Dis Model 5;293-308.
2. Tracht SMDV, Hyman J. Mathematical modeling of the effectiveness of facemasks in reducing the spread of novel influenza A (H1N1). PLoS One 2010;5(2)e:9018.
3. Kim SH et al. Effectiveness of Surgical and Cotton Masks in Blocking SARS–CoV-2: A Controlled Comparison in 4 Patients. Ann Int Med https://doi.org/10.7326/M20-1342
4. Leung NHL et al. Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and the efficacy of face masks. Nat. Med. 2020. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41591-020-0843-2
5. Long Y, Hu T, Liu L, Chen R, Guo Q, Yang L, Cheng Y, Huang J, Du L. Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks against influenza: a systematic review and meta‐analysis. J. Evid. Based Med. 2020. Mar 13. https://doi.org/10.1111/jebm.12381
6. Davies A, Thompson K‐A, Giri K, Kafatos G, Walker J, Bennett A. Testing the efficacy of homemade masks: would they protect in an influenza pandemic? Disaster Med. Public Health Prep. 2013; 7: 413– 8.
7. Ma Q‐X, Shan H, Zhang H‐L, Li G‐M, Yang R‐M, Chen J‐M. Potential utilities of mask wearing and instant hand hygiene for fighting SARS‐CoV‐2. J. Med. Virol. 2020 Mar 31. https://doi.org/10.1002/jmv.25805

Right but this is far from the first Coronavirus to have spread into an epidemic or pandemic (h1n1 most recently). The science never change about masks. And fauci continued in March saying don't wear masks. Now 2 months later all of sudden were doing a 180 after 50 years of the science of it not changing?

Again, that's where my problem lies. Theres not concrete evidence that it'll actually do more good than not. For every publishment that says it helps, there's one contradicting that.

 

[macraven]

We are beating a dead horse here.....

Things that were said by Fauci and others are not the same now

New info will always arise as we go through covid-19

 

[EveDallas]

And that`s the whole situation in a nutshell......

Some of these back and forward arguments we have seen on other boards where folks get annoyed with the opposite opinion are pointless. No one who thinks one way is going to change the opinions of others.

For me, I certainly wouldn't be reading or trusting opinions from several unqualified folks on a Disney website who have the opinion they are experts...….we can all produce evidence to show any opinion we like if we look.

Bottom line...….as mac has said on numerous occasions, their park their rules. If you don't like it don`t go.

Exactly. Am I happy about the idea of wearing a mask when it's 100 degrees? Nope. But I will follow their rules. (Honestly, at this point I might walk on hot coals to get back if I had to )

 

[EveDallas]

We are beating a dead horse here.....

Things that were said by Fauci and others are not the same now

New info will always arise as we go through covid-19

 

[schumigirl]

Exactly. Am I happy about the idea of wearing a mask when it's 100 degrees? Nope. But I will follow their rules. (Honestly, at this point I might walk on hot coals to get back if I had to )

yep.......feel the same way.

And yes, I’d be with you on those hot coals.......I just need to navigate the Atlantic Ocean first........

 

[C&Jx2]

While I am not excited about it, our vacation dates are limited and if we want to visit UOR, those are the requirements. I bought some light weight fishi gaiters.

 

[agavegirl1]

 

[Mousequake]

Right but this is far from the first Coronavirus to have spread into an epidemic or pandemic (h1n1 most recently). The science never change about masks. And fauci continued in March saying don't wear masks. Now 2 months later all of sudden were doing a 180 after 50 years of the science of it not changing?

Again, that's where my problem lies. Theres not concrete evidence that it'll actually do more good than not. For every publishment that says it helps, there's one contradicting that.

Because all viruses are different. This one, unlike other coronaviruses, has a particularly long incubation period when a carrier can be asymptomatic and still spread the disease. Because that evidence hadn't come to light yet, health professionals didn't realize what a crucial component of this particular virus spread that was when they made the original 'masks aren't necessary' recommendation. Hence, the changing of recommendation to wear masks, because preventing the virus from spreading from the wearer to another person is exactly what masks are good at.

I provided you multiple instances of peer-reviewed evidence in my last post. I have yet to see a single study that says cloth face coverings do not helps to the spread of virus to others.

 

[tony67]

Exactly - that's how science works! Things change as theories are tested.

Well that is how it is supposed to work

yep.......feel the same way.

And yes, I’d be with you on those hot coals.......I just need to navigate the Atlantic Ocean first........

I hear you on that. I am hoping to get back to Prague before the tourism gets crazy again.
Maybe Dubrovnik as well before the GOT folks start going back.
The big issue is getting money back from the EU airlines if you have to cancel - they are not doing vouchers like the US ones and pretty much just letting you re-book. Of course if you flight costs less for the re-book date they dont credit you back - and if it costs more you pay, and no I am not talking about Ryan air but pretty big international carriers.
So just make sure you have all the info when you book.

 

[schumigirl]

Well that is how it is supposed to work

I hear you on that. I am hoping to get back to Prague before the tourism gets crazy again.
Maybe Dubrovnik as well before the GOT folks start going back.
The big issue is getting money back from the EU airlines if you have to cancel - they are not doing vouchers like the US ones and pretty much just letting you re-book. Of course if you flight costs less for the re-book date they dont credit you back - and if it costs more you pay, and no I am not talking about Ryan air but pretty big international carriers.
So just make sure you have all the info when you book.

Prague is so beautiful and so peaceful before the “Stag” parties discovered it......after that we never went back.

Our May flights with Virgin Atlantic were cancelled by them, we had a choice to defer the flights for another time up to Sept 2022 or a full refund. We opted for the refund and it’s being processed now.

But, I think we are quite lucky as many are facing difficulties getting refunds. We have several friends who are struggling to get refunds when they have bought flights from American carriers right now. They wished they had stuck to British Airlines as they are offering refunds......

It’s a minefield for sure. And add in the no fly for us Brits and it takes worry to a crazy level........lol.......I can’t worry anymore about anything.......what will be and all that.

 

[tony67]

Prague is so beautiful and so peaceful before the “Stag” parties discovered it......after that we never went back.

You need to go during the week - same for much of central Europe - Krakow, Budapest , Bratislava, Prague etc.. all change come Friday afternoon

 

[schumigirl]

You need to go during the week - same for much of central Europe - Krakow, Budapest , Bratislava, Prague etc.. all change come Friday afternoon

Oh we did. I’m going back many years ago. Stag parties started staying for a week as they found cheap accommodation. I know many places now have tried to ban them coming from the UK and can’t say I blame them, but......they bring a lot of money!

The only time we really went solely on a weekend was for the Hungarian F1 Grand Prix......always a busy weekend then.

 

[keishashadow]

I don't disagree with you in theory. If you have health benefits with your job that is a big factor no doubt.
Keep in mind part time employees get the full 600 as well - it is not pro-rated - and many (most?) part timers dont get health benefits.
If you get $1 in unemployment benefits you get the extra $600.
I personally know people making more than double what they made working part time just under 30 hours per week.

Of course the system has to work as you have pointed out - in my state they got rid of the waiting week and you never missed a check.

Absolutely not the standard in PA. As i said early, so many are still waiting 2-1/2 months later, the system was just overwhelmed by the number of applicants. Stats at beginning of May were 1.7 million individual applicants.

While I am not excited about it, our vacation dates are limited and if we want to visit UOR, those are the requirements. I bought some light weight fishi gaiters.

We use Mission cooling towels. I bought their gaiters that are SPF too. They are far hotter inside than I had expected. Outside, they do catch the breeze. Can be dampened & used for cooling but thinking that would really make breathing miserable if put over the face. I’ll be using ours when on the beach next week. Good enough for spur of the moment usage when social distancing goes south & in elevator. Otherwise, I’m planning on the basic blue disposable masks with the nose adjuster. They are truly the coolest ones i’ve Used. Not sure i’d Want to in parks though, there will go with cloth one with a filter

Oh we did. I’m going back many years ago. Stag parties started staying for a week as they found cheap accommodation. I know many places now have tried to ban them coming from the UK and can’t say I blame them, but......they bring a lot of money!

The only time we really went solely on a weekend was for the Hungarian F1 Grand Prix......always a busy weekend then.

Haha is there any corner of Europe you haven’t visited?

 

[schumigirl]

Absolutely not the standard in PA. As i said early, so many are still waiting 2-1/2 months later, the system was just overwhelmed by the number of applicants. Stats at beginning of May were 1.7 million individual applicants.

We use Mission cooling towels. I bought their gaiters that are SPF too. They are far hotter inside than I had expected. Outside, they do catch the breeze. Can be dampened & used for cooling but thinking that would really make breathing miserable if put over the face. I’ll be using ours when on the beach next week. Good enough for spur of the moment usage when social distancing goes south & in elevator. Otherwise, I’m planning on the basic blue disposable masks with the nose adjuster. They are truly the coolest ones i’ve Used. Not sure i’d Want to in parks though, there will go with cloth one with a filter
Haha is there any corner of Europe you haven’t visited?

lol.....quite a few.

Never been to Iceland, Portugal, Greece, Cyprus, Romania, Morocco and Tunisia.......only one out of those countries I’d want to go to visit now is Iceland.

Before we visited America Tom and I went around all the countries in a Europe we wanted to visit.......now there’s only a few places in Europe I’d consider going back to...... Kyle doesn’t want to go to back to mainland Europe either......

On topic, I have several friends in Orlando that had a nightmare time trying to claim unemployment. Sounded a completely broken system before it started.

 

[RamblingMad]

lol.....quite a few.

Never been to Iceland, Portugal, Greece, Cyprus, Romania, Morocco and Tunisia.......only one out of those countries I’d want to go to visit now is Iceland.

Before we visited America Tom and I went around all the countries in a Europe we wanted to visit.......now there’s only a few places in Europe I’d consider going back to...... Kyle doesn’t want to go to back to mainland Europe either......

On topic, I have several friends in Orlando that had a nightmare time trying to claim unemployment. Sounded a completely broken system before it started.

Iceland is okay. I actually like Banff more.

 

[Oscar Madison]

Exactly. Am I happy about the idea of wearing a mask when it's 100 degrees? Nope. But I will follow their rules. (Honestly, at this point I might walk on hot coals to get back if I had to )

I totally agree. It all comes down to private v public for me. UO is a private biz that is saying I must wear a mask to enter their resort/parks etc. I have a choice to make. Whether or not I agree or disagree makes no dfference. If I want in, I have to comply.
When govt says I have to wear a mask outside, I also have a choice. Since govt continues to flip flop on what they tell me is best for everyone's health, used faulty models to cripple the economy that the data didn't support, and does not have an overall good track record regarding transparency/honesty, I make a different choice. I have no incentive based on the latest data/science to wear one outside.

2 weeks to slow the spread to prevent hospitals from being overrun which then turned into until we have more testing ,which turned into until a vaccine, which now turned into wear a mask (after they said it wasn't required).

I don't think 44 million out of work was even close to being worth it.

 

[osufeth24]

Just to add to the mess, the WHO themselves say not to wear a mask unless sick, or a care person working directly with someone that has it.

I still says this is the main reason why there's even a debate. So much contradicting info