The Running Thread - 2018

[TheHamm]

Keep in mind that cadence and stride length are a function of pace. So someone running on the slower end of the spectrum will find their cadence below that 180 number (from Daniels assessment of 1984 Olympic runners who were around 180 spm or more, some were 180 and others 190, 200, etc). Doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong necessarily. Just keep the footfall underneath you. Which means it could be a heel strike, fore strike, or mid-strike. I find it more important that the foot fall underneath your body so that the force of the footfall be more evenly distributed. Keep the steps quick and light.

Cadence, Stride Length, Gait and Pace: The Great Debate

View attachment 337254

https://www.scienceofrunning.com/2011/02/180-isnt-magic-number-stride-rate-and.html?v=7516fd43adaa



Since the Garmin is new, make sure you have the HR zones setup appropriately so you're getting an accurate picture for yourself. I prefer the HRR method which Garmin supports using the Garmin Connect web interface.

Thanks! the stride length * frequency = speed makes sense, and I always love a good plot. I'm not sure how to determine if my stride length is appropriate other than watch myself, which sounds challenging!
Regarding HRR, I do have the default on my watch, and I do not see how to convert from their basic (220-age) *% via garmin connect. However, the equation I found online from mayo clinic was [(220-age-resting hart rate )*%]+RHR. Are you recommending simply use this equation and manually adjust the zones? As my RHR is relatively low, the above does shift the zones down to where I would find myself solidly in the 'zone 3' category,

 

[tigger536]

which reminds me, the stadium is quite nice.

The college football hall of fame (very close to aquarium and world of coke) is very fun too!

 

[Bree]

Hi! What race are you doing? I second the suggestions @OldSlowGoofyGuy made. Plus, at Ponce City market, check out 9 mile station - its on the roof. There is a restaurant up there (and its pretty good), and carnival games and putt putt. The bars up there have frose (you didn't say YOU don't drink, lol). The views of the city are great up there. Walk the Beltline before or after - PCM is right on the Beltline. More shopping and dining here, and its a great place to run. Virginia Highlands is a great neighborhood to check out for shopping and dining(this neighborhood is very close to Piedmont Park/ Botanical Gardens). I would make a nice dinner reservation too. Some of my favorites are Gunshow (Kevin Gillespie of top chef fame) and The Optimist (seafood). I could go on and on about restaurants, so message me if you want more. While you are checking out the Botanical Gardens, which I highly recommend, walk around in Piedmont Park (its next to the gardens). Its our version of central park, its huge. If you want some really good shopping, check out Lenox Mall and Phipps Plaza (they are across the street from each other, in Buckhead). You'll find every store you can think of and some you didn't (and all the designer stuff).

Altanta is very hot, hilly and humid, so keep this in mind for your race. Enjoy our city!

I'm looking at the Craft Classic on September 8th. I'm not thrilled with the course and we haven't committed 100% yet. We are still trying to figure out if we can get to Tennessee for the Smoky Mountain half. Plane tickets to Knoxville aren't cheap.

 

[SunDial]

Anyone have advice for visiting Atlanta??? What are some things to do besides aquarium, zoo and Coca Cola museum? Flying in Thursday night. DH has to work from hotel on Friday while I get my race bib. Half marathon Saturday morning. Flying home Sunday night. DH doesn’t drink and we like outdoor stuff. DH is a hobby photographer and just went to the botanical gardens a couple months ago.

The last visit to see my daughter she took me to their big cemetery. Quite interesting. Then we also went to their equivalent of central park. Had a great time.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Thanks! the stride length * frequency = speed makes sense, and I always love a good plot. I'm not sure how to determine if my stride length is appropriate other than watch myself, which sounds challenging!
Regarding HRR, I do have the default on my watch, and I do not see how to convert from their basic (220-age) *% via garmin connect. However, the equation I found online from mayo clinic was [(220-age-resting hart rate )*%]+RHR. Are you recommending simply use this equation and manually adjust the zones? As my RHR is relatively low, the above does shift the zones down to where I would find myself solidly in the 'zone 3' category,

I'd personally say that as long as you don't feel like you're reaching with your foot when you step then you're probably ok. The problem occurs when people want to pick up the pace, they have two options. Increase cadence, or increase stride length (technically you could do both). So some people when they pick up the pace feel as if they should reach out further with their foot to increase their stride length. I'd suggest instead think about putting more power behind the step and the footfall should hopefully stay underneath as appropriate. I tend to be a runner who increases both cadence and stride length (through power) when adjusting my pace upwards.

In regards to HR, the 220-age really isn't a good measure for HRmax. And the HRR system uses HRmax as a basis for calculation, thus making it important that it's at least close to right. But the 220-age represents more of a human average, but the big picture data shows that people can be as much as +/- 15 bpm from the 220-age value. So some people have a 210+ max HR (and not 10 yrs old) and others have a 170 max HR (and not 50 years old). Like me at around a 172-177 max HR, but the 220-age says I should be around 187. So for now, use 220-age. But once you run a good hard 5k, look at the end of the race and the HR value. Make that your new HRmax as it's likely within a few beats if you're really challenging yourself late in the race. There are also workout types that you could do to try and determine an accurate HRmax.

As far as the zones, they're fine as is once you change to HRR. Daniels has the following chart that matches up reasonably well with my own personal data (although I do find myself on the low end of most of these values).



But I leave my HR zones as is on Garmin Connect after choosing the HRR method:



Zone 1 and 2 = Easy and low end long run pace.
Zone 3 = Long Run and low end M Tempo.
Zone 4 = M Tempo, HM Tempo, LT, and 10k pace.
Zone 5 = End of a 10k or end of a 5k race.

I barely, if ever, find myself in Zone 5. I pay attention less to the zones and more to the actual HR since I've got loads of data to show me where I should be with each relative pace/effort.

 

[derekleigh]

@LSUlakes new races for me:

Aug
12 - derekleigh - City on the Lakes Triathlon Sprint (NG/) *my first triathlon of any kind*

Sept
30 - derekleigh - Tanger Outlet 5K (23:00/)

 

[GreatLakes]

@DopeyBadger where do you set the heartrate zones online in Garmin Connect? I see where I do it on my VivoActive but when I go to User Settings online I see Gender, Weight, Height, Birth Date, Activity Class, and Running/Cycling VO2 Max but nowhere to setup anything with Heartrate. The online video I found was an old version of the website that doesn't help.

Another question, if I have a setting on my device (910XT and/or VivoActive 3) does it update itself from Connect or do I have to set it up the same in all locations?

Sorry to bug you, I normally can find anything in settings anywhere but I'm at a loss.

 

[DopeyBadger]

@DopeyBadger where do you set the heartrate zones online in Garmin Connect? I see where I do it on my VivoActive but when I go to User Settings online I see Gender, Weight, Height, Birth Date, Activity Class, and Running/Cycling VO2 Max but nowhere to setup anything with Heartrate. The online video I found was an old version of the website that doesn't help.

Another question, if I have a setting on my device (910XT and/or VivoActive 3) does it update itself from Connect or do I have to set it up the same in all locations?

Sorry to bug you, I normally can find anything in settings anywhere but I'm at a loss.

Go to "Device Settings" listed under the device itself (far right on my screen):



From there, click "User Settings" on the screen:



Scroll down the screen to Heart Rate Zones:



I'm not 100% sure, but I believe if you update each of the devices in the manner above and then sync each, you should be good to go. I'm not sure if it also works in the opposite direction when changing the settings on the watch first and then going to Garmin Connect.

 

[Sleepless Knight]

SEC Media Days happening this week in Atlanta.

Roll Tide!!!

This means football season is coming soon! Sadly, I don't know if this excites me or scares me. BYU had a really bad season last year and I figure the 49ers owners will find a way to destroy the upward momentum the team gained last season.

 

[GreatLakes]

Go to "Device Settings" listed under the device itself (far right on my screen):

View attachment 337308

From there, click "User Settings" on the screen:

View attachment 337313

Scroll down the screen to Heart Rate Zones:

View attachment 337311

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe if you update each of the devices in the manner above and then sync each, you should be good to go. I'm not sure if it also works in the opposite direction when changing the settings on the watch first and then going to Garmin Connect.

Thanks for that info. I did manage to find that poking around but what I'm missing is the ability to edit the method used (Based on...) in your example above.

Here is what I am seeing on the exact same page:



I want to enter my resting heart rate which Garmin already knows anyway since the VA3 has an optical sensor and change to the % of reserve method but don't see that option. Is it possibly device specific? That would be odd since the logic would likely be done on the back end and not on the watch even if that means I don't get a real time display.

 

[SarahDisney]

Thanks for that info. I did manage to find that poking around but what I'm missing is the ability to edit the method used (Based on...) in your example above.

Here is what I am seeing on the exact same page:

View attachment 337314

You said above that you're using the VivoActive 3, right? I'm wondering if it doesn't have that ability to edit the method used. Because I see the same thing you do (and I'm using the VivoActive3).

 

[GreatLakes]

You said above that you're using the VivoActive 3, right? I'm wondering if it doesn't have that ability to edit the method used. Because I see the same thing you do (and I'm using the VivoActive3).

Yep. I could see not showing the zone in real-time if it isn't supported on the device but I would think the software could take the data and apply the logic in Connect after the upload if that is the case.

 

[TheHamm]

Thanks for that info. I did manage to find that poking around but what I'm missing is the ability to edit the method used (Based on...) in your example above.

Here is what I am seeing on the exact same page:

View attachment 337314

I want to enter my resting heart rate which Garmin already knows anyway since the VA3 has an optical sensor and change to the % of reserve method but don't see that option. Is it possibly device specific? That would be odd since the logic would likely be done on the back end and not on the watch even if that means I don't get a real time display.

Oh, good, it is not just me! Mine too looks this way and does not appear to allow auto-calc of the HRR.

ETA: a Ctrl+F of 'reserve' or 'HRR' come up with nothing in the V3 manual.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Thanks for that info. I did manage to find that poking around but what I'm missing is the ability to edit the method used (Based on...) in your example above.

Here is what I am seeing on the exact same page:

View attachment 337314

I want to enter my resting heart rate which Garmin already knows anyway since the VA3 has an optical sensor and change to the % of reserve method but don't see that option. Is it possibly device specific? That would be odd since the logic would likely be done on the back end and not on the watch even if that means I don't get a real time display.

You said above that you're using the VivoActive 3, right? I'm wondering if it doesn't have that ability to edit the method used. Because I see the same thing you do (and I'm using the VivoActive3).

Yep. I could see not showing the zone in real-time if it isn't supported on the device but I would think the software could take the data and apply the logic in Connect after the upload if that is the case.

Oh, good, it is not just me! Mine too looks this way and does not appear to allow auto-calc of the HRR.

ETA: a Ctrl+F of 'reserve' or 'HRR' come up with nothing in the V3 manual.

How very strange! I guess then I'd consider manually changing the zones to reflect the %HRR data. Seems odd it doesn't allow that change automatically though. I'd imagine changing them manually on GC should sync the changes to the watch as well.

 

[LSUlakes]

Good afternoon everyone! It's definitely a MONDAY! Got home a little late and it's been a crazy morning at the office so today QOTD isn't going to happen. Disney was a blast and we took advantage of every moment we were there! Park crowds are much lower than what I was thinking it would be. I would say lower than our April trip as well, but.... THE TOUR GROUPS! If you ever want to see a FP+ line become useless wait for what seems like 100+ teens hit up the fast pass line while your in standby in what was a 10-15 minute wait. It was hot which was expected and during the hottest parts of the day we would see a show or a place to have a adult beverage and people watch! So much fun and I'm looking forward to going back soon with the kiddos!

 

[cavepig]

I've posted a few things in the marathon thread but for anyone registering in case you aren't aware (I doubt here as this group is on game) - - -


There are bunch of new FAQs for your new RunDisney account management, https://www.rundisney.com/help/faq/

You can only use ONE form of Payment meaning ONE Disney Gift Card, ONE credit/debit card, or ONE Disney Chase Rewards Redemption card. If you use a Gift Card or Redemption card make sure it has enough to cover the race(s) cost and the 6.6% processing fee. If you have multiple gift cards or need to add, go to the Disney Gift card site to do this.

You can register multiple people and for multiple races in ONE transaction.

Race Registrations do not show up in MDE (don't look on the app for them either). When you sign in it will fill in the "myself" information mostly, but for anyone else you will be filling that in each time for that person. It does not pull information from your friends & family in MDE.

If you register multiple people be aware that you will be in charge of their registration. It will be in your account for updating things like Proof of Time. If you read the FAQs there is a way to move it into your account by emailing, but might as well register separate so you don't have to deal with that if you don't want someone else managing your registration.

Otherwise, treat AP/DVC day just like in the past where you go to the Passsholder or DVC site or follow the link from RunDisney under "Early Registration Opportunities".

 

[avondale]

I'd personally say that as long as you don't feel like you're reaching with your foot when you step then you're probably ok. The problem occurs when people want to pick up the pace, they have two options. Increase cadence, or increase stride length (technically you could do both). So some people when they pick up the pace feel as if they should reach out further with their foot to increase their stride length. I'd suggest instead think about putting more power behind the step and the footfall should hopefully stay underneath as appropriate. I tend to be a runner who increases both cadence and stride length (through power) when adjusting my pace upwards.

In regards to HR, the 220-age really isn't a good measure for HRmax. And the HRR system uses HRmax as a basis for calculation, thus making it important that it's at least close to right. But the 220-age represents more of a human average, but the big picture data shows that people can be as much as +/- 15 bpm from the 220-age value. So some people have a 210+ max HR (and not 10 yrs old) and others have a 170 max HR (and not 50 years old). Like me at around a 172-177 max HR, but the 220-age says I should be around 187. So for now, use 220-age. But once you run a good hard 5k, look at the end of the race and the HR value. Make that your new HRmax as it's likely within a few beats if you're really challenging yourself late in the race. There are also workout types that you could do to try and determine an accurate HRmax.

As far as the zones, they're fine as is once you change to HRR. Daniels has the following chart that matches up reasonably well with my own personal data (although I do find myself on the low end of most of these values).

View attachment 337296

But I leave my HR zones as is on Garmin Connect after choosing the HRR method:

View attachment 337297

Zone 1 and 2 = Easy and low end long run pace.
Zone 3 = Long Run and low end M Tempo.
Zone 4 = M Tempo, HM Tempo, LT, and 10k pace.
Zone 5 = End of a 10k or end of a 5k race.

I barely, if ever, find myself in Zone 5. I pay attention less to the zones and more to the actual HR since I've got loads of data to show me where I should be with each relative pace/effort.

I can change the HR zones on my Garmin Forerunner 235 through the settings on the watch and don't have to go through Garmin Connect, if that's helpful. I don't know if all Garmins can do that.

 

[TheHamm]

I can change the HR zones on my Garmin Forerunner 235 through the settings on the watch and don't have to go through Garmin Connect, if that's helpful. I don't know if all Garmins can do that.

The vivoactive 3 also lets you type in new numbers from the watch face. However, math should be done before hand as it seems the screen times out.

 

[tigger536]

I'm looking at the Craft Classic on September 8th. I'm not thrilled with the course and we haven't committed 100% yet. We are still trying to figure out if we can get to Tennessee for the Smoky Mountain half. Plane tickets to Knoxville aren't cheap.

I love the Craft Classic race! I ran it last year and would be running this year if I wasn't going out of town for a bachelorette weekend. The course is great, it takes you through some great areas of Atlanta, and begins and ends in Grant Park, which is a change from most other Atlanta halfs that end in midtown. Plus great beer after from Monday Night brewing. I highly recommend this race.

 

[tigger536]

Race report: I completed the Carolina Reaper 26.2 challenge on Saturday 10x 2.62 mile laps, done every 40 minutes (so if you finish in 25, you get 15 minutes to rest, finish in 39 and you don't get to rest, finish in 40:01 and you don't get to continue to the next lap). It started at 2pm just outside of Greenville, SC (ran part of the swamp rabbit trail and "cemetery hill" for those familiar with the area). It was HOT! And HUMID! 95-96 real feel at the worst of it. Some nice cloud cover for the first lap, then this quickly disappeared and the sun did its worst. My best lap was 23:24 (first lap) and worst was 29:03 (last lap). Average was 26:54, for a total moving time of 4:28:56. 18/47 female, 45/127 overall (including DNFs). The heat was killer and there were alot of DNFs - 47 out of 127, so I'm very proud of this result! It was harder than I thought to start and stop though, as I started to get stiff during the breaks towards the end - and it seemed like the time between laps just evaporated, lol. But good practice for Disney character lines, I suppose. They did a good job with the aid station - pickles, chips, tailwind (lifesaver!) and more and they had cold towels for us after each lap, and sometimes push pops. It was hilly too when done 10 times - cemetery hill got worse with each lap. Total elevation was about 1300. Not sure I would do this again because the heat was brutal, but I had a great time.