The Running Thread - 2019

All of this race talk has me dreaming of future races!
For those that have ran both marathons, would you recommend Chicago or NYC?

I've a fairly lazy run and have done Chicago and NY. While I had a lot of fun with Chicago I think NY is just at a whole different level.

Pros: Chicago
Much easier logistically. We stayed at the Hilton across the street so it was really easy to get to the start. (NY requires a bus or a ferry/bus to the start and there is a really long walk post race.)
Normal Start Time. (Chicago has a typical morning start it's not as early as Disney, but most people can treat it like a normal run with their routines) NY requires a fairly early morning to get out to the bridge. It takes a little more planning to be up at 5 and out the door 4+ hours before you start running.
Fast course.
Less crowded Course

Pros NY:
Views from the bridges of the city are really incredible
Both have good crowd support, but NY is over the top it's like a 26.2 mile party.
NY has a great atmosphere.

I like both races, but I've spent money to run NY 3 times and I've only run Chicago once.

I’ve done both as well and totally agree with these points. I did Chicago this year and it was great but I will also have NYC on top. It is an incredible experience with the 5 boroughs being so different from one another and the end in the Park.

The only three fulls I have done are these two and Disney. I will say that while Disney is good. , I find these two majors a different level experience in terms of crowd experience and energy
 
Hi ya'll!!

This will be my first winter running outside. Can you talk to me about what you all wear in 20-30 degree weather, especially during training where you may not be running as hard as a race? I've googled it, but thought I would get some real people input. Running clothes are so expensive and I don't want to buy things unnecessarily, but also don't want to under prepare and keep myself inside.

Pretty much mine as well! I just moved back to Pennsylvania with my dad to finish nursing school and I was in Orlando and Florida in general for the last 17 years! I was here back in late 2015 and I had to train for the Princess half 2016, so a few things that worked for me were keeping my core warm, my ears/head, and my feet/hands.

I usually will use one of the long sleeve tech shirts that I’ve got from races past, thermal running leggings, thicker socks, gloves, a fleece headband, and then a top it off with a running thermal heat vest. That seems to work for me but I don’t like running in pretty much anything under 20°. Takes me too long to get my blood warmed up being from Florida LOL. Then I take to the treadmill.
 
Hey y’all! How’s everyone been? I’m loving seeing all of you accomplish so many races. Since I moved back to Pennsylvania, in about July, I just have not been able to get well. I had not been sick in about 5 to 6 years, I got here and ended up with strep throat followed a few months later by fungal meningitis. I can promise you neither of which are pleasant! So I’m trying to get back into my running mojo. What works for all of you after you’ve been unwell to get back into the place of feeling like a normal runner again?

I had my heart set on doing the Hershey half marathon which was October 20, but I was as sick as sick could be. Just super disappointing when you have something on your bucket list when you’re someplace else and you can’t do it.

all I have on the horizon right now is the Princess half 2020.
 
What works for all of you after you’ve been unwell to get back into the place of feeling like a normal runner again?

Sorry you've been dealing with multiple health issues. For me, it's usually injury, and when I come back, I just take it easy and run for fun. I try not to put any kind of pressure on, e.g. training for a race. Also, I am actively looking forward to running, so that helps.

Hope you get back to it soon.
 


Indy Monumental Marathon race report (BQ & a fairly substantial PR for me on 11/9)

It’s very long, apologies in advance as this race was a lengthy process.

This was a goal race I had on my calendar for a while. I decided I wanted to take a shot at a BQ a couple years ago. Once I understood how the age groups worked, I targeted Fall 2019 as I’d be in the 55-59 category for Boston 2021 and I’d need to be under 3:40 (although that moved down to 3:35) and that seemed like a reasonable goal. From 2016-18, my go-to fall race was Chicago. Last fall I got a PR of 3:44 there and stayed with the 3:45 pace group most of the way. I knew they helped me, especially down the stretch. Weather was sorta okay there but drizzly humid air that felt heavy. I realized Chicago weather is just too unpredictable in early October, and I did not want my 2019 “A Race” to be so dependent on that. Also I was lucky (lottery) enough to run NYC four weeks later and had enjoyed following so many new friends running Indy virtually the day before. Seeing PRs and strong races from so many in Indy got me thinking hard about Monumental. So I decided that I would not return to Chicago in 2019.

Running Chicago and NYC towards the end of 2018 got me a little tired (physically, but even more mentally). I had promised all year to help train and pace my wife (Selinda) at the Disney Marathon (January 2019). It would be her first marathon... we were supposed to do it together Jan-18 but she got a mysterious ankle injury race week. The timing last year was perfect. I owed her big time for her support. I also needed a bit of a reset. So from mid-Nov until early January it was all about her. I still ran a couple/few days a week for me, but the majority of the focus was her running. It was awesome experiencing the newer runner feel and excitement through her eyes. Training with her during a very mild December and then running next to her for her first marathon was awesome. It is still my personal favorite race experience. I can understand the joy pacers get.

Last year at midnight New Year’s Eve I signed up for Indy. At that moment, this became my entire running focus of 2019... work my butt off all year and improve enough to BQ on 11/9 in Indy. I’d be surrounded by friends and could almost guarantee it would not be too warm for me. I started saying it out loud at the January 1 run at Pope Lick Park where so many (>60) of my extended runner friends showed up for a big group run to start the year. No turning back now because it was out on the table.

I decided I would train and push myself throughout the Triple Crown and KDF mini. I figured I better see some improvement early in the year or a BQ in the fall was gonna be impossible. I had spent so much time the last few years focusing on marathon pacing and strategy that I forgot how much you have to let yourself hurt in shorter races. Well I got reminded of that February-April but that really helped. I got fairly sizable PRs in each of the 4 local races. This was an obvious confidence boost. Then the plan was just to run a decent quantity of miles in May and June until my 18 week Hanson plan began on July 11. I made a slight adjustment. I ran another 5k in June and then one more on July 4th. These hurt a lot. But it reset my pain tolerance a bit and reminded me that the pain is part of the process.

The most influential person on my running is a friend named Lowery. He's very fast and has logged almost 80k miles in his life. He is the reason I got into running. Seeing his excitement when he talks about running, runners, races, etc. He coached my kids in XC, and I was around it enough that I knew I wanted in that “club” someday. He was supposed to be in Indy. He got a pretty serious injury 2 days before the Bourbon Chase (ragnar relay in October) and is off for a while. I called him on the way to Indy and we talked over an hour. His encouraging words were strong. He had zero doubts that I was ready. Anytime I needed to focus during the race Saturday, I just thought of him and knew that I was running that race for the both of us.

The highlight of the expo was hearing Deena Kastor. Before she spoke, I had her sign my bib. She asked me how I felt. I told her that I’d know tomorrow… lol. I said I was going to try and BQ. She wrote “Believe and Achieve” on my bib. That was another thing I leaned on during the race to just keep me going towards my goal. She’s so positive and does not let obstacles get in her way. I learned from her that negativity is so strong that it takes 3 positive thoughts to outweigh 1 negative. I knew doubt would hit me sometime during the race. So the morning of the race I remembered to write 3 positive things on my hand. Trust the plan, Hard Work, and Dig. Meaning that I had a good plan, so follow it. I worked hard for this, so I’m ready. And then “dig” when it’s time.

Dinner was great after we miraculously got seating for that many people. There were almost 20 of us (young and old) from the Louisville area just having a good time.

Before I went to bed I checked my earbuds and they would not turn on. Charging them didn’t help. They were broken. I could’ve freaked. I never train faster paces without them. But I thought back to Deena’s talk (and her book that I’ve read) and decided this was just going to allow me to experience the race better. I’d be more focused, could hear my feet more, and pay more attention to the runners around me in the pace group. Plus I wouldn’t be carrying my phone now… less weight. All is good.

Race morning was relaxing. I headed from Embassy Suites to the Marriott Lobby. A bunch of people from our running group were getting together to relax before the race. Got to the lobby and it was perfect. Any nerves I had were going away. Everyone was just sitting around, laughing and getting ready for the race. It was nice and entertaining.

I headed to the corral with my friends Jamie and David. We log a lot of easy miles together. Jamie commented that it wasn’t as cold as when we did our shakeout Friday morning. He was right. This was going to be perfect. We get to the corral and then David said a prayer for the 3 of us. Then I saw my wife Selinda and she just kept saying “you got this, this weather is perfect for you, you’ve got this”. I knew I was ready.

Jamie and I took off behind the 3:30 pace group. Jamie was doing the half, but said he was going to run with me until the split. This was awesome. I wasn’t going to be chatty like an easy run, but it was going to be comfortable running with a friend and training partner for 7-ish miles. We kept commenting about how the pacers were going a little fast, that it really wasn’t that cold, and that the course was crowded and curvy. I quickly realized that I wish I had peed one last time… at least it was taking my mind off anything else, but it was something negative. I knew if it didn’t go away that I’d end up skipping hydration at some point. I decided that when the course split I’d hit a port-a-potty and then work my way back to the pace group.

Right before the course split, I got to see another friend that was doing the half so that was cool. At the point the racers separated, we all fist bumped and then I was on my own (with probably 20-ish people surrounding the 3:30 pacers) for the marathon. I let myself get maybe 10-15 seconds ahead of the pacers because I started looking for a bathroom. The first ones I saw had 2 runners immediately take them. Next… I finally found an unoccupied one during mile 11. This helped a lot and now I could just focus on running and allow myself to take as much fluid as I really needed/wanted. I slowly reeled in the pace group and we were together by the halfway point.

I felt different in this race vs other marathons. The first 10-13 miles did not feel super easy. It didn’t feel hard, but there seemed to be more effort than normal. On the flip side, perceived effort really didn’t change much up through mile 20. Physically it never really got that difficult, although mentally I was having to stay focused on just keeping with the pace group. But my head was up and I certainly wasn’t in any physical pain. I could’ve tried to pick it up around mile 20, but my goal was not to run as fast as I could but to get under 3:30. There was no real gain from leaving them too early and plenty of risk. At this time I was feeling pretty confident about my chances, but I also knew that I needed to stay in the moment. I repeated “believe and achieve” a few times. Looked down at my hand and reminded myself about my plan, how much work I’d put in, and to just keep digging. And I also thought about Lowery not being able to run in Indy and used that to keep plugging away. I decided that when we got to Meridian, if I felt great, that I would leave the group and see how much under 3:29 I could get. Right around mile 23 I’m surprised to hear a VERY loud “F*&k Yeah, Craig Burnett!!!”. Not too wordy, straight to the point, and effective. I look over and it’s Matt from my running group. He had made the trip to Indy just to ride around on his bike and take pics of everyone. Everyone around me immediately knew that shout out was for me. Now there’s no way I’m not finishing strong.

We turn on Meridian Street towards downtown and there’s a lot of wind. Okay, no real reason to leave the group just yet, lol. Even though the pacers are little guys, they gotta be blocking some of this right? We run by a pancake house and that looks good. Okay finish this thing and get some nice crappy food in your system. Somehow I think I see Matt again… why’s he so fast? At mile 25 marker I decide I'm ready to leave the pacers and see how fast I can finish. I figured I’d see some familiar faces down the stretch. Wow this wind is strong… did I really need to leave the group and run hard to the finish? And then I see a whole row of KorfEdge running group people (they'd done the half). I hear my name and give some high fives. I’m close now, that was another boost, so we’re good. I get right by the last turn to the finish nad see David and Jamie cheering me on. They are yelling loud. I don’t have much left to do except pass a couple people on the last block. I cross the line, hopefully I’m smiling because I certainly was on the inside. I’m walking around looking for my wife. I did it! I’m freaking out inside. David finds me and tells me which side my wife's on and I finally see her. She’s yelling for me and telling me we are going to Boston.

Go back to hotel, clean up, and then head down towards the finish to get my medal engraved and find some food. Got me a big ol’ cheeseburger and just had a great time with my wife talking about the race and the whole weekend. I had a great time in Indy. Thanks to everyone that encouraged me, ran with me, tracked me, etc. I felt the support of a lot of people while I was running Saturday. I really appreciate it!




.451881451882451887
 


I never reported back from NYC, so here's a quick recap. Warning: I'm not the gifted recapper that others are.

Logistics to get to start seemed extra tedious this year. I don't know why (maybe I left earlier last year?), but it seemed to take FOREVER. I catch the bus in midtown by the library. I think it took 45-50 minutes just to cross the bridge. We sat and sat and sat. I could see the athlete's village--we were that close--but just crawled along. And I had to go to the bathroom SO BADLY at this point. When we finally did park and people cold get off, it was crazy. I'm not sure if the driver let us off in the wrong place, but we had to wait for a lane of traffic to stop moving and cross. Then the security line was equally crazy, but that went a little better. My start time was 9:40 and it was right before 9 am at this point. I didn't even bother going to my athlete's village--I went straight to corral on my quest for a bathroom. It took about 10-15 minutes to get into a bathroom. As soon as I was done, I found a teeny place to stand before we got moved up to the bridge. I took my throwaway pants off, but left everything else on. Within minutes, we were walking to start--I was in Wave 1, corral B. For the 2nd year, I was starting on the bottom of the bridge. I thought I would hate this last year, but actually don't mind it. I freak a little when I look out from the bridge and think about how high we are over the water, so this makes me not notice it as much. I also think it isn't as clustered, but that might be because I am further up front than the year I was on the top level of the bridge. The beginning of NYC is always very cool. They announce elites and other people (I just hear it--can't see a damned thing). Also, once they walk you to the bridge, it is a freaking free for all for position. I hate this. So much pushing and people from the back forcing their way up. I noticed 4 women wearing the same charity shirt. They did not have the typical appearance of Wave 1 runners. I saw their bibs: Wave 4. I have no idea how they get up front because my bib got checked before I went into the corral. The cannon went off and we were off. I know the first mile will be slow because of the climb and because of the crowds. It is so hard, dodging people. Once again, there were so many people who were not Wave 1, in front of me--walking up the bridge. NYC does such a good job with so many people, but I wish they handled the policing of the corrals better. I saw someone almost go down when a woman in front of him just stopped and started walking (in the first .5 mile).

First mile was slow as expected and the 2nd mile is fast. By mile 3, I seemed to find my groove. I can't say I ever really felt good. I felt off for the past couple of weeks. I had been noticing a familiar pain in my fibula--the one I broke in May--since I have been back from Berlin. I knew I would be digging deep in the well to get away with a marathon without it being a problem. I knew I would not break a leg over another marathon just to finish. I had also been sick for over a week and still feel some lingering crap. Somewhere along 4-5 miles, I passed Gene Dykes (look him up if not familiar). He passed me 2 miles in at Boston this past year. I know he keeps a heavy racing schedule and figured he wasn't giving a hard, record setting effort today.

I was intending to keep my pace around 6:50-7:10, and was hitting it most of the time. Pace would creep up every now and then and I would try to get it back. It just felt hard today. Around mile 12, I was very aware of my fibula (at least it made it longer than the PIG in May when it started around mile 5). I hit the half in 1:32:34 and knew I was going to have to slow down or break my leg. I was slightly discouraged because I knew I hit the half last year just over 1:28 and I felt worse this year. So I slowed down and just kept mentally preparing for Queensboro Bridge. I knew that would be slow, and I knew I wouldn't be able to throw the hammer down on the downhill since downhills really aggravate my leg. I just wanted to get over the bridge and start the long trek up 1st Av. Crowds are HUGE along this part, such a contrast to the quiet bridge. Leg was hurting and I starting coming up with solutions in my head. I though I would drop if I had to. I was not breaking it and going through that recovery again. By mile 18, I thought I could drop or start taking walk breaks with slow running. This was my strategy for the remainder of the race. Run until pain was really bad, back off and walk to the next traffic light (or whatever visual landmark I set), run again. I walked through the water stations and actually drink the whole cup instead of my normal sip and missing my mouth. The first mile that started with a 9 made my heart sink, but I was going to get this done. I seemed to be able to run the run portions at a decent pace, although I rarely looked at my watch. No sense in playing runner's math at this point. I dislike the portion that goes through the Bronx. Somewhere along this part, I got passed by an older gentleman, none other, than Gene Dykes (and he was looking strong).

Finally on 5th Avenue, which has the reputation of going on forever. It didn't seem as bad this year (I think the easier running made me less tired). I kept looking at the street signs and saying in my head, "Run for 10 blocks, then take a walk break"...Finally made it to Central Park. Central Park is the epitome of running. Central Park on a sunny fall day just takes the icing! I ran most of it, but took walk breaks on some of the up hills. I felt embarrassed, with so many people watching and screaming " You can do it". If only they knew I was trying to prevent a broken bone. This was my 3rd NYC and I seemed to remember every turn. I ran the last 1.25 miles without walking and felt every painful step. Crossed the finish line in 3:21:12. I was aiming for 3:05-3:10. I felt so good in Berlin and that was 3:04--this was WAY harder.

73524711_10216907099764328_202054928259088384_n.jpg

My form was terrible as the race progressed. Going from walking, back to running, I was just a mess.

17FBF121-9281-4AE1-A2BC-4A2BA0210A5C_4_5005_c.jpeg

9A8372F3-0CA6-4106-913F-47F7DB7FBCF7_4_5005_c.jpeg

74345981_10216907100084336_6862333711430451200_n.jpg

If you want to see splits, here they are. Easy to see when race took a turn.

B9E7779A-A162-4D37-B95A-58F5CD17F5A3.png

4856C576-2568-4CDB-AEA9-A8E9B7E552D7.png

35A65A4C-5F64-4549-8F47-8082FAADA6A2.png

I have not run since NYC. I am self treating myself for a stress fracture. I know it isn't broken because that hurts so much worse and there is no swelling. I will not run until pain is gone. I have been walking, doing elliptical, and weight training. If I get desperate, I may hit the pool.

I am debating if I want to go back next year. I think I need a break from NYC, but at the same time, it is the 50th and I am a sucker for "special" years.
 
Last edited:
Indy Monumental Marathon race report (BQ & a fairly substantial PR for me on 11/9)

It’s very long, apologies in advance as this race was a lengthy process.

This was a goal race I had on my calendar for a while. I decided I wanted to take a shot at a BQ a couple years ago. Once I understood how the age groups worked, I targeted Fall 2019 as I’d be in the 55-59 category for Boston 2021 and I’d need to be under 3:40 (although that moved down to 3:35) and that seemed like a reasonable goal. From 2016-18, my go-to fall race was Chicago. Last fall I got a PR of 3:44 there and stayed with the 3:45 pace group most of the way. I knew they helped me, especially down the stretch. Weather was sorta okay there but drizzly humid air that felt heavy. I realized Chicago weather is just too unpredictable in early October, and I did not want my 2019 “A Race” to be so dependent on that. Also I was lucky (lottery) enough to run NYC four weeks later and had enjoyed following so many new friends running Indy virtually the day before. Seeing PRs and strong races from so many in Indy got me thinking hard about Monumental. So I decided that I would not return to Chicago in 2019.

Running Chicago and NYC towards the end of 2018 got me a little tired (physically, but even more mentally). I had promised all year to help train and pace my wife (Selinda) at the Disney Marathon (January 2019). It would be her first marathon... we were supposed to do it together Jan-18 but she got a mysterious ankle injury race week. The timing last year was perfect. I owed her big time for her support. I also needed a bit of a reset. So from mid-Nov until early January it was all about her. I still ran a couple/few days a week for me, but the majority of the focus was her running. It was awesome experiencing the newer runner feel and excitement through her eyes. Training with her during a very mild December and then running next to her for her first marathon was awesome. It is still my personal favorite race experience. I can understand the joy pacers get.

Last year at midnight New Year’s Eve I signed up for Indy. At that moment, this became my entire running focus of 2019... work my butt off all year and improve enough to BQ on 11/9 in Indy. I’d be surrounded by friends and could almost guarantee it would not be too warm for me. I started saying it out loud at the January 1 run at Pope Lick Park where so many (>60) of my extended runner friends showed up for a big group run to start the year. No turning back now because it was out on the table.

I decided I would train and push myself throughout the Triple Crown and KDF mini. I figured I better see some improvement early in the year or a BQ in the fall was gonna be impossible. I had spent so much time the last few years focusing on marathon pacing and strategy that I forgot how much you have to let yourself hurt in shorter races. Well I got reminded of that February-April but that really helped. I got fairly sizable PRs in each of the 4 local races. This was an obvious confidence boost. Then the plan was just to run a decent quantity of miles in May and June until my 18 week Hanson plan began on July 11. I made a slight adjustment. I ran another 5k in June and then one more on July 4th. These hurt a lot. But it reset my pain tolerance a bit and reminded me that the pain is part of the process.

The most influential person on my running is a friend named Lowery. He's very fast and has logged almost 80k miles in his life. He is the reason I got into running. Seeing his excitement when he talks about running, runners, races, etc. He coached my kids in XC, and I was around it enough that I knew I wanted in that “club” someday. He was supposed to be in Indy. He got a pretty serious injury 2 days before the Bourbon Chase (ragnar relay in October) and is off for a while. I called him on the way to Indy and we talked over an hour. His encouraging words were strong. He had zero doubts that I was ready. Anytime I needed to focus during the race Saturday, I just thought of him and knew that I was running that race for the both of us.

The highlight of the expo was hearing Deena Kastor. Before she spoke, I had her sign my bib. She asked me how I felt. I told her that I’d know tomorrow… lol. I said I was going to try and BQ. She wrote “Believe and Achieve” on my bib. That was another thing I leaned on during the race to just keep me going towards my goal. She’s so positive and does not let obstacles get in her way. I learned from her that negativity is so strong that it takes 3 positive thoughts to outweigh 1 negative. I knew doubt would hit me sometime during the race. So the morning of the race I remembered to write 3 positive things on my hand. Trust the plan, Hard Work, and Dig. Meaning that I had a good plan, so follow it. I worked hard for this, so I’m ready. And then “dig” when it’s time.

Dinner was great after we miraculously got seating for that many people. There were almost 20 of us (young and old) from the Louisville area just having a good time.

Before I went to bed I checked my earbuds and they would not turn on. Charging them didn’t help. They were broken. I could’ve freaked. I never train faster paces without them. But I thought back to Deena’s talk (and her book that I’ve read) and decided this was just going to allow me to experience the race better. I’d be more focused, could hear my feet more, and pay more attention to the runners around me in the pace group. Plus I wouldn’t be carrying my phone now… less weight. All is good.

Race morning was relaxing. I headed from Embassy Suites to the Marriott Lobby. A bunch of people from our running group were getting together to relax before the race. Got to the lobby and it was perfect. Any nerves I had were going away. Everyone was just sitting around, laughing and getting ready for the race. It was nice and entertaining.

I headed to the corral with my friends Jamie and David. We log a lot of easy miles together. Jamie commented that it wasn’t as cold as when we did our shakeout Friday morning. He was right. This was going to be perfect. We get to the corral and then David said a prayer for the 3 of us. Then I saw my wife Selinda and she just kept saying “you got this, this weather is perfect for you, you’ve got this”. I knew I was ready.

Jamie and I took off behind the 3:30 pace group. Jamie was doing the half, but said he was going to run with me until the split. This was awesome. I wasn’t going to be chatty like an easy run, but it was going to be comfortable running with a friend and training partner for 7-ish miles. We kept commenting about how the pacers were going a little fast, that it really wasn’t that cold, and that the course was crowded and curvy. I quickly realized that I wish I had peed one last time… at least it was taking my mind off anything else, but it was something negative. I knew if it didn’t go away that I’d end up skipping hydration at some point. I decided that when the course split I’d hit a port-a-potty and then work my way back to the pace group.

Right before the course split, I got to see another friend that was doing the half so that was cool. At the point the racers separated, we all fist bumped and then I was on my own (with probably 20-ish people surrounding the 3:30 pacers) for the marathon. I let myself get maybe 10-15 seconds ahead of the pacers because I started looking for a bathroom. The first ones I saw had 2 runners immediately take them. Next… I finally found an unoccupied one during mile 11. This helped a lot and now I could just focus on running and allow myself to take as much fluid as I really needed/wanted. I slowly reeled in the pace group and we were together by the halfway point.

I felt different in this race vs other marathons. The first 10-13 miles did not feel super easy. It didn’t feel hard, but there seemed to be more effort than normal. On the flip side, perceived effort really didn’t change much up through mile 20. Physically it never really got that difficult, although mentally I was having to stay focused on just keeping with the pace group. But my head was up and I certainly wasn’t in any physical pain. I could’ve tried to pick it up around mile 20, but my goal was not to run as fast as I could but to get under 3:30. There was no real gain from leaving them too early and plenty of risk. At this time I was feeling pretty confident about my chances, but I also knew that I needed to stay in the moment. I repeated “believe and achieve” a few times. Looked down at my hand and reminded myself about my plan, how much work I’d put in, and to just keep digging. And I also thought about Lowery not being able to run in Indy and used that to keep plugging away. I decided that when we got to Meridian, if I felt great, that I would leave the group and see how much under 3:29 I could get. Right around mile 23 I’m surprised to hear a VERY loud “F*&k Yeah, Craig Burnett!!!”. Not too wordy, straight to the point, and effective. I look over and it’s Matt from my running group. He had made the trip to Indy just to ride around on his bike and take pics of everyone. Everyone around me immediately knew that shout out was for me. Now there’s no way I’m not finishing strong.

We turn on Meridian Street towards downtown and there’s a lot of wind. Okay, no real reason to leave the group just yet, lol. Even though the pacers are little guys, they gotta be blocking some of this right? We run by a pancake house and that looks good. Okay finish this thing and get some nice crappy food in your system. Somehow I think I see Matt again… why’s he so fast? At mile 25 marker I decide I'm ready to leave the pacers and see how fast I can finish. I figured I’d see some familiar faces down the stretch. Wow this wind is strong… did I really need to leave the group and run hard to the finish? And then I see a whole row of KorfEdge running group people (they'd done the half). I hear my name and give some high fives. I’m close now, that was another boost, so we’re good. I get right by the last turn to the finish nad see David and Jamie cheering me on. They are yelling loud. I don’t have much left to do except pass a couple people on the last block. I cross the line, hopefully I’m smiling because I certainly was on the inside. I’m walking around looking for my wife. I did it! I’m freaking out inside. David finds me and tells me which side my wife's on and I finally see her. She’s yelling for me and telling me we are going to Boston.

Go back to hotel, clean up, and then head down towards the finish to get my medal engraved and find some food. Got me a big ol’ cheeseburger and just had a great time with my wife talking about the race and the whole weekend. I had a great time in Indy. Thanks to everyone that encouraged me, ran with me, tracked me, etc. I felt the support of a lot of people while I was running Saturday. I really appreciate it!




.View attachment 451881View attachment 451882View attachment 451887

Great recap, Congrats on the BQ!!!
And it's nice to know that no matter how fast you are, you can still take time to appreciate the pancake house options on course :)

I never reported back from NYC, so here's a quick recap. Warning: I'm not the gifted recapper that others are.

Logistics to get to start seemed extra tedious this year. I don't know why (maybe I left earlier last year?), but it seemed to take FOREVER. I catch the bus in midtown by the library. I think it took 45-50 minutes just to cross the bridge. We sat and sat and sat. I could see the athlete's village--we were that close--but just crawled along. And I had to go to the bathroom SO BADLY at this point. When we finally did park and people cold get off, it was crazy. I'm not sure if the driver let us off in the wrong place, but we had to wait for a lane of traffic to stop moving and cross. Then the security line was equally crazy, but that went a little better. My start time was 9:40 and it was right before 9 am at this point. I didn't even bother going to my athlete's village--I went straight to corral on my quest for a bathroom. It took about 10-15 minutes to get into a bathroom. As soon as I was done, I found a teeny place to stand before we got moved up to the bridge. I took my throwaway pants off, but left everything else on. Within minutes, we were walking to start--I was in Wave 1, corral B. For the 2nd year, I was starting on the bottom of the bridge. I thought I would hate this last year, but actually don't mind it. I freak a little when I look out from the bridge and think about how high we are over the water, so this makes me not notice it as much. I also think it isn't as clustered, but that might be because I am further up front than the year I was on the top level of the bridge. The beginning of NYC is always very cool. They announce elites and other people (I just hear it--can't see a damned thing). Also, once they walk you to the bridge, it is a freaking free for all for position. I hate this. So much pushing and people from the back forcing their way up. I noticed 4 women wearing the same charity shirt. They did not have the typical appearance of Wave 1 runners. I saw their bibs: Wave 4. I have no idea how they get up front because my bib got checked before I went into the corral. The cannon went off and we were off. I know the first mile will be slow because of the climb and because of the crowds. It is so hard, dodging people. Once again, there were so many people who were not Wave 1, in front of me--walking up the bridge. NYC does such a good job with so many people, but I wish they handled the policing of the corrals better. I saw someone almost go down when a woman in front of him just stopped and started walking (in the first .5 mile).

First mile was slow as expected and the 2nd mile is fast. By mile 3, I seemed to find my groove. I can't say I ever really felt good. I felt off for the past couple of weeks. I had been noticing a familiar pain in my fibula--the one I broke in May--since I have been back from Berlin. I knew I would be digging deep in the well to get away with a marathon without it being a problem. I knew I would not break a leg over another marathon just to finish. I had also been sick for over a week and still feel some lingering crap. Somewhere along 4-5 miles, I passed Gene Dykes (look him up if not familiar). He passed me 2 miles in at Boston this past year. I know he keeps a heavy racing schedule and figured he wasn't giving a hard, record setting effort today.

I was intending to keep my pace around 6:50-7:10, and was hitting it most of the time. Pace would creep up every now and then and I would try to get it back. It just felt hard today. Around mile 12, I was very aware of my fibula (at least it made it longer than the PIG in May when it started around mile 5). I hit the half in 1:32:34 and knew I was going to have to slow down or break my leg. I was slightly discouraged because I knew I hit the half last year just over 1:28 and I felt worse this year. So I slowed down and just kept mentally preparing for Queensboro Bridge. I knew that would be slow, and I knew I wouldn't be able to throw the hammer down on the downhill since downhills really aggravate my leg. I just wanted to get over the bridge and start the long trek up 1st Av. Crowds are HUGE along this part, such a contrast to the quiet bridge. Leg was hurting and I starting coming up with solutions in my head. I though I would drop if I had to. I was not breaking it and going through that recovery again. By mile 18, I thought I could drop or start taking walk breaks with slow running. This was my strategy for the remainder of the race. Run until pain was really bad, back off and walk to the next traffic light (or whatever visual landmark I set), run again. I walked through the water stations and actually drink the whole cup instead of my normal sip and missing my mouth. The first mile that started with a 9 made my heart sink, but I was going to get this done. I seemed to be able to run the run portions at a decent pace, although I rarely looked at my watch. No sense in playing runner's math at this point. I dislike the portion that goes through the Bronx. Somewhere along this part, I got passed by an older gentleman, none other, than Gene Dykes (and he was looking strong).

Finally on 5th Avenue, which has the reputation of going on forever. It didn't seem as bad this year (I think the easier running made me less tired). I kept looking at the street signs and saying in my head, "Run for 10 blocks, then take a walk break"...Finally made it to Central Park. Central Park is the epitome of running. Central Park on a sunny fall day just takes the icing! I ran most of it, but took walk breaks on some of the up hills. I felt embarrassed, with so many people watching and screaming " You can do it". If only they knew I was trying to prevent a broken bone. This was my 3rd NYC and I seemed to remember every turn. I ran the last 1.25 miles without walking and felt every painful step. Crossed the finish line in 3:21:12. I was aiming for 3:05-3:10. I felt so good in Berlin and that was 3:04--this was WAY harder.

View attachment 451954

My form was terrible as the race progressed. Going from walking, back to running, I was just a mess.

View attachment 451957

View attachment 451956

View attachment 451955

If you want to see splits, here they are. Easy to see when race took a turn.

View attachment 451959

View attachment 451960

View attachment 451961

I have not run since NYC. I am self treating myself for a stress fracture. I know it isn't broken because that hurts so much worse and there is no swelling. I will not run until pain is gone. I have been walking, doing elliptical, and weight training. If I get desperate, I may hit the pool.

I am debating if I want to go back next year. I think it I need a break from NYC, but at the same time, it is the 50th and I am a sucker for "special" years.

Congrats, and wishing you best of luck with your self-treating. You are a super hero!
 
Hey everyone. Long time no post...mostly because I fell out of running this summer due to some mental health issues. Things are better now on the brain front, but I feel like I've lost whatever base I had. I did manage to get out for a couple of 6 mile walks this summer, but overall it's not been a great season. Now, too, we've had sudden onset of winter, so as I get back into things I'll mostly be rowing for now with longer walks or runs on weekends when I can wait until the sun comes out before I start.

Been looking at the 2020-2021 schedule. The 2021 marathon has been my 'A Goal' for a while now, and that's still on my radar. I'm thinking, though, about adding a runDisney race in 2020 to give myself more motivation. I'm doing a solo, non-running trip in late January 2020 and was already considering upgrading my ticket to an AP to also cover the 2021 Marathon Weekend--I'd be out about $100 more versus buying tickets for each trip separately, and I'm confident I'd at least make that up on discounts, not even counting Memory Maker (which I might want for the marathon). Figured out that if I had an AP, that would drop the cost of a short mid-2020 race trip to where I could afford to add it to my calendar--I'd have to tighten the belt a bit on day to day expenses at home, but it's doable.

The longest race I've done is a 10K back in June, and I barely kept it under 16 minutes/mile. With that in mind, and with the limitations of winter training on my mind, I'm looking ahead to next summer and trying to decide how soon I should plan to run my first half--I want to run at least one of them next year before my first marathon, hopefully two. I'm nervous because that 10K this past June was supposed to be my first half but I wasn't ready in time, and I'm afraid it'll happen again if I try for one too early in the season and kill my confidence...again. My options for running a half next year are pretty much:
April - Star Wars Rival Run Weekend
June - several semi-local half marathons available
August - local half marathon in my own city
November - Wine & Dine weekend

I'm really leery of shooting for April--I'd only just have time to work through the Galloway training plan for the half by then, and I'm not sure I'm even in good enough shape to start that plan. Thoughts? I want to have something closer than the marathon to shoot for to keep me motivated, but I'm not sure how to lay my race calendar out for best effect.

Edit: I talked it over with my housemate, and with her insight into the other stuff going on in our lives, I'm thinking of aiming for the August half marathon and just focusing this winter on building habits and baselines. The house needs a lot of work and it's hard to split my attention--and hard to row regularly when the room where the rower lives is full of junk. So that comes first, then training in earnest starting in the early spring.
 
Last edited:
Hello all! I am new around here, and running my first full at WDW in Jan. I am so excited and slightly terrified by the full, and would love some advice from experienced marathoners. How much should I fear the full? I've had a great fall racing season, and am running well right now. My long runs are around 20 miles and I'm putting in about 40ish miles/week (highest week to date has been 50 miles). I have NO idea what I should be targeting as a marathon pace. I ran a recent 5K in 19:46, a half in 1:37, and I did an 11K run last weekend and hit the 10K mark in 43ish minutes. Is an 8 minute mile MP too aggressive for a first marathon? That would put me 5 minutes under my BQ time.

Does anyone run the full without any nutrition? I don't do very well taking anything while running. I don't do any food/gels/water for distances up to the half, and then on my long runs I've been taking only small amounts of water and electrolytes. I feel fine and perform well doing this...not sure if I should try to change it or not. Certainly I'll try to do better with hydration during the full.
 
@Nightriders19 Welcome to the group. I would never say "fear" the full, but "respect" it. Based on your training, I would say you mostly do that. I will assume you're following a marathon training plan. (If not, find one and slot in the last however many weeks til the race). As for pace (and also training) @DopeyBadger will do math and spreadsheet magic and suggest something---and it is safe to say he knows of what he speaks! A rough race time calculator says you are capable of running faster than an 8 mpm pace, and I wouldn't suggest running slower just because it is a first--I would say run what your fitness/training suggests is possible. The caveat here would be corral placement and crowd management. If you submitted a proof of time, I expect you would be put in A and avoid most of the crowds, but if you haven't run in a large race, it can still be a little difficult to find rhythm. Also, it is a first marathon---so there will be "known unknowns" and "unknown unknowns" to deal with---like any first-time race. That BQ is tempting to focus on, but don't let it rule you. (My first marathon was Disney and I ran it just about 5 minutes over BQ. I couldn't have done better on that day, but I was close, and that gave me confidence to try for it later that year, which I did and made it)

Now let's talk nutrition. This is the area that needs work. Even the elites fuel! Is it a GI thing? A form factor thing? (I personally hate chewing anything while running) You need to intake something, and I would suggest practicing nutrition on your next long runs---try something new each time in hopes of finding one that works. Disney will do diluted Powerade on the course---that could be one place to start.

Anyway, others will weigh in. Sounds like you are well on your way to have a good first marathon!
 
@Nightriders19 Welcome to the group. I would never say "fear" the full, but "respect" it. Based on your training, I would say you mostly do that. I will assume you're following a marathon training plan. (If not, find one and slot in the last however many weeks til the race). As for pace (and also training) @DopeyBadger will do math and spreadsheet magic and suggest something---and it is safe to say he knows of what he speaks! A rough race time calculator says you are capable of running faster than an 8 mpm pace, and I wouldn't suggest running slower just because it is a first--I would say run what your fitness/training suggests is possible. The caveat here would be corral placement and crowd management. If you submitted a proof of time, I expect you would be put in A and avoid most of the crowds, but if you haven't run in a large race, it can still be a little difficult to find rhythm. Also, it is a first marathon---so there will be "known unknowns" and "unknown unknowns" to deal with---like any first-time race. That BQ is tempting to focus on, but don't let it rule you. (My first marathon was Disney and I ran it just about 5 minutes over BQ. I couldn't have done better on that day, but I was close, and that gave me confidence to try for it later that year, which I did and made it)

Now let's talk nutrition. This is the area that needs work. Even the elites fuel! Is it a GI thing? A form factor thing? (I personally hate chewing anything while running) You need to intake something, and I would suggest practicing nutrition on your next long runs---try something new each time in hopes of finding one that works. Disney will do diluted Powerade on the course---that could be one place to start.

Anyway, others will weigh in. Sounds like you are well on your way to have a good first marathon!

Thank you so much! This is very helpful!

The nutrition is mostly a form thing...I find chewing/swallowing difficult while running and gels make me gag.
 
@Princess_Nikki I would just start by taking it easy and go from there

@YawningDodo good to hear you're feeling better. If you can commit to your training, I think April would work. But it sounds like you have a lot on your plate.

@Wendy98 I'll probably defer NYC to 2021 too since DH doesn't want me training for 2 marathons in a year.

@Nightriders19 you definitely have the ability to go sub 3:30, but first marathons are a tough beast. You never know what it's like until you do it. I think someone here said the race really begins the last 6 miles. I had only done one 20 miler before my marathon, so I think you're in good shape. I also never fueled/water until this year and I think it's made a difference (I still never fuel/drink during training unless I'm testing out fuel). I'd never go without fuel for a marathon though. I have a friend who can't tolerate any gels and brings real food with her. But I would experiment and see if you can try something. I had great luck with Huma (and then e-gel). You can consider pre-fueling with something like Maurten too.
 
@YawningDodo good to hear you're feeling better. If you can commit to your training, I think April would work. But it sounds like you have a lot on your plate.
Yeah...I think last night I got a wild hare to do something that would push me to commit right this second. Because yes, I think if I doubled down I could hit the half by April, and there's an appeal to it--it would be hard, but doable, at least under better circumstances. But in talking with my housemate last night we looked at why training hasn't been happening, and a lot of the things in my day to day life that are holding me back aren't really solved--I'm feeling better and that makes me want to take on more and push myself harder, but I know (logically, not emotionally) that I could drive myself right back into it if I overload myself. So I'm looking at the things I can do for myself to reduce the mental load and background stress while I ease back into a rowing routine, so that when I do get to training in earnest I'll have the bandwidth to focus on it. I'm trying to think of it as really not being that different from self-treating for a stress fracture--I wouldn't push myself to train at full speed if it were a physical injury.

Thank you so much! This is very helpful!

The nutrition is mostly a form thing...I find chewing/swallowing difficult while running and gels make me gag.

I'm clearly no expert, but--have you tried liquid fuels? There are the mainstream things like Powerade and Gatorade, or I've heard that some people have had great success with Tailwind. Little sips might be easier than chewing blocks or choking down a gel.
 
When this happens....View attachment 452124 ....You dress warmly, head out in real feel temps of 7F , find the clear roads and do your 4 easy miles. Then you do this when you're home......View attachment 452126

So much for 1-3" or 3-5". I may not be as badass as @Professor_Cookie, but today I claim some rights!
I think the adjective for me you’re looking for is “stupid” and not “bad.”

Good work out there though. Getting out in conditions like that are definitely worth some GNAR points.
 
Hello all! I am new around here, and running my first full at WDW in Jan. I am so excited and slightly terrified by the full, and would love some advice from experienced marathoners. How much should I fear the full? I've had a great fall racing season, and am running well right now. My long runs are around 20 miles and I'm putting in about 40ish miles/week (highest week to date has been 50 miles). I have NO idea what I should be targeting as a marathon pace. I ran a recent 5K in 19:46, a half in 1:37, and I did an 11K run last weekend and hit the 10K mark in 43ish minutes. Is an 8 minute mile MP too aggressive for a first marathon? That would put me 5 minutes under my BQ time.

Does anyone run the full without any nutrition? I don't do very well taking anything while running. I don't do any food/gels/water for distances up to the half, and then on my long runs I've been taking only small amounts of water and electrolytes. I feel fine and perform well doing this...not sure if I should try to change it or not. Certainly I'll try to do better with hydration during the full.

I would say that you should fear it to the extent that it motivates you to complete all training runs but no more. I agree that a 3:30 is easily doable for you assuming you train properly (@DopeyBadger, chime in). On the nutrition front, I agree with others that you need to figure this out by trial and error during your long runs... I would strongly discourage you from trying a marathon with no nutrition.
 
As some may recall, I got a Garmin with HR monitor for the first time late this summer. In retrospect, late summer in FL is a TERRIBLE time to first start monitoring your HR while running! Don't do that. :rotfl: So depressing to see it spiking into Zone 4 while walking a leisurely pace.

But we finally got a cold front down here and I did a 16+ miler with a starting temp of 58, ending temp around 68, and holy cow!!! Effort level was maybe 60-75% of how it's felt the past 6 months, but coming in almost a minute per mile faster - and HR sat nicely in Zone 2 and 3 for most of it! None of this should be surprising, as it happens every year. But it somehow it still is, and it's neat to see some data to support what I feel!

Also interesting to see how much HR climbs while going uphill. My only hills are in direct sun, so I avoid them all summer and only recently started running that route again - so first time being able to see HR connected to the extra effort of uphill running. Wow - it goes right up, and comes right back down! :rotfl2: I know - this is all old news to those who've been monitoring HR for years, but it's all new and fascinating to me, lol!
 
Hello all!

:welcome:


I have NO idea what I should be targeting as a marathon pace. I ran a recent 5K in 19:46, a half in 1:37, and I did an 11K run last weekend and hit the 10K mark in 43ish minutes. Is an 8 minute mile MP too aggressive for a first marathon? That would put me 5 minutes under my BQ time.

So this is the race equivalency for your 5k time:

Screen Shot 2019-11-12 at 9.00.40 AM.png

Your 5k time would suggest under similar conditions (temperature and elevation grade of the 5k race) that you are capable of a 1:31 HM and 3:09 M (with some caveats I'll get to).

Your HM time of 1:37 suggests the following:

Screen Shot 2019-11-12 at 9.02.16 AM.png

Again same caveats assuming the marathon (or other race distances you wish to compare to) are under similar conditions.

I would base the training paces on the 5k since it appears to be the stronger of the two times (as long as you have no reason to believe it was a short course).

Screen Shot 2019-11-12 at 9.03.37 AM.png

For this to be the case, you would need to feel like an 8:41 min/mile pace is a pace that feels like you're barely trying. Not noticing breathing and giving minimal effort. If that's the case, then this profile is right. If it isn't then I may suspect that the 5k might not have been 3.11 miles.

Now with that being said, there is a clear falling in race equivalency from the 5k to the HM. Since the 5k suggests a 1:31 HM, yet the recent race was a 1:37 HM it suggests that your current deficit is probably in endurance. The "predicted ranges" for each show the probability of different marathon times based on research conducted by Ian Williams and Vickers. The below link explains how race equivalency calculators work and most importantly how those values can be used for marathon predictions:

Ian Williams: An Updated Race Equivalency Calculator Attempt

So the breakdown is the following, the 5k suggests:

6% of runners run 3:09 or faster
9% of runners run 3:14 or faster
25% of runners run 3:26 or faster
50% of runners run 3:50 or faster

The HM suggests:

6% of runners run 3:22 or faster
9% of runners run 3:23 or faster
25% of runners run 3:28 or faster
50% of runners run 3:35 or faster

You can see the 5k suggests faster times, whereas the HM has a tighter range. This is because the 5k is a better performance, but the HM shows what kind of endurance fitness you are in.

In order to determine where you'll fall in these early stages of predicting (usually don't project out until we're about 1 week till race day), I'd look at the training you're doing.

My long runs are around 20 miles and I'm putting in about 40ish miles/week (highest week to date has been 50 miles).

You're doing about 50 miles at max which assuming you're averaging around an 8:15 min/mile at the moment is about 7 hours at the peak and 5.5 hrs on average (based on 40 miles). That's a decent amount of training. The only concern with the current training would be an over reliance on the long run (and it's going to depend on how fast you're running it (racing them vs training them)). So without diving even deeper into your training methodology I'd say you're probably in the 25-50% predictive range. So that currently suggests a 3:26-3:50 based on the 5k and 3:28-3:35 based on the HM. So a sub-3:30 M is doable, but it's going to be dependent on how you train the last 9 weeks and whether the conditions on marathon day are similar to the recent races.

Does anyone run the full without any nutrition? I don't do very well taking anything while running. I don't do any food/gels/water for distances up to the half, and then on my long runs I've been taking only small amounts of water and electrolytes. I feel fine and perform well doing this...not sure if I should try to change it or not. Certainly I'll try to do better with hydration during the full.

I think you should focus your last few weeks of training specifically honing in on this because it easily could be the difference between a 3:29 and 4:05 marathon finish time. There are two options. You can carbohydrate load in the day or days prior to the race in order to dramatically increase glycogen storage in the muscles, or you can try and find tolerable in race options. Ideally, you do both as that will nearly completely eliminate glycogen depletion as the reason for hitting the wall.

For in-race nutrition, I've got a calculator that makes a lot of assumptions but is a good "average" place. Assuming you are a female who weighs 140 pounds (and I can adjust these gender/numbers for you if you'd like just send me a PM).

Screen Shot 2019-11-12 at 9.49.44 AM.png

The calculator is saying that to stave off glycogen depletion at a sub-3:30 pace given your HM performance would on average require a consumption of 68 g carbs per hour if you did no carb loading procedure in the day prior (being a carb loading procedure like discussed below that exceeds 10 g carbs/kg body weight). If you were to do a carb loading procedure, then the calculator says on average you would only need to consume 2 grams carbs per hour during the race.

In order to hit that carb loading value though, that female would need to consume about 655 grams carbs in the day prior (or possibly use a different methodology).

Screen Shot 2019-11-12 at 9.24.07 AM.png

I don't think I'd safely say you could do the marathon with solely carb loading, but the "average" data suggests that it's close to possible. But like I said, ideally you find a way to consume both pre and during because that will optimally eliminate depletion as a reason for hitting the wall during a max effort marathon race. For those who don't like to consume during the race, I suggest looking at doing Maurten 320 right before the race starts as that'll get you 80g carbs in an easily digestable solution. For concentrated doses of carbs, look at doing Tailwind (a liquid source) in a ultra concentrated solution. I've been able to use it at 1 scoop per 1.5 oz of water. This however does not preclude you from making sure you take in an appropriate amount of water during the race to make sure it is absorbable (most products are 1 oz water for every 2 grams carbs). So a 20 gram concentrated swig of Tailwind in a single ounce of water would still need another 9 oz from the aid station waters to make sure it can be digested. Otherwise the body will pull the water from the muscles increasing the odds of dehydration.

Hope that all helps and please let me know if you have any questions.
 
Last edited:

GET A DISNEY VACATION QUOTE

Dreams Unlimited Travel is committed to providing you with the very best vacation planning experience possible. Our Vacation Planners are experts and will share their honest advice to help you have a magical vacation.

Let us help you with your next Disney Vacation!





Top