The Running Thread - 2019

Running Etiquette question: How close do you get to other runners? I am not really sure if I am just unaccustomed to running near other people (I have a track to myself most of the winter!), or they really are unreasonable.

Background: we have a closed loop around a parking lot that is open to runners and walkers for an hour. More people have gotten out there with the warmer weather, and some people pass very close- close enough I can feel them breeze by. Yesterday I got grazed by someone and we were the only ones for 30 yards of the 2 lane path. I was surprised and yelped, and chewed him out when he was facing me on the way back, but he didn't slow down and did not think his behavior was a problem.
We have a company relay race, and for the month before it all the former college track and cross country people come out, and they also pass close enough to make me uncomfortable (and there is zero need to draft me at my 11 minute mile). I am tempted to stick my elbows out a bit more but am concerned I will just hurt myself.

if you were the only two people he was a donkey butt. As for etiquette I try to leave others with plenty of personal space, but it’s hard when the course is crowded. If I bump someone I always apologize.
 
Running Etiquette question: How close do you get to other runners? I am not really sure if I am just unaccustomed to running near other people (I have a track to myself most of the winter!), or they really are unreasonable.

Background: we have a closed loop around a parking lot that is open to runners and walkers for an hour. More people have gotten out there with the warmer weather, and some people pass very close- close enough I can feel them breeze by. Yesterday I got grazed by someone and we were the only ones for 30 yards of the 2 lane path. I was surprised and yelped, and chewed him out when he was facing me on the way back, but he didn't slow down and did not think his behavior was a problem.
We have a company relay race, and for the month before it all the former college track and cross country people come out, and they also pass close enough to make me uncomfortable (and there is zero need to draft me at my 11 minute mile). I am tempted to stick my elbows out a bit more but am concerned I will just hurt myself.

I typically avoid any runners but i wonder does it make a difference which lane you are in? Like is there a fast lane and slower lane?
 
Running Etiquette question: How close do you get to other runners?

I often run on paths about 6-8 feet wide. During training runs there are usually not many other people around and I try to give a wide berth to other runners. As a guy I also try to make a bit of noise (feet shuffle) if I am approaching a women from behind who does not notice me so I don't startle her when I pass.

Races are another story....if the path is a bit crowded and there is a slower runner/walker going my direction but on the left side of the path I will pass very close and may even ask that they "run on the left, walk on the right". I try to say it with respect, but I still usually get snarky looks and/or comments. I figure if I am passing them at my slow speed, then they need to be on the right (where I will be as soon as I pass). I understand that passing on a track can be different, but this is in the woods.

And don't even get me started on slower folks going two or three abreast oblivious to other runners.
 


Inner most lane is the fast lane. Outer most is the slow lane. On the track I run on, all rules are off except be polite and try not to scare anyone.

Links to track etiquette:
https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20819435/track-running-101/https://www.verywellfit.com/rules-for-running-on-a-track-2912009

Thank you for posting links to track etiquette! Drives me crazy at my local track when people amble in the inside lane. Or just decide to stop dead in the middle of the track. I have mostly learned to let my annoyance go and "live and let live", but when I'm running my R-pace 150s and 300s, I want that inside lane. :) I have asked folks in between gasping breaths to please move off the track if they are going to stop moving.

Going back to the original question...if there are lanes, like on the track, there's no reason to get closer than the lane markers unless it's *really* crowded. I usually leave an empty lane in between if possible. Otherwise I agree with others about how there's absolutely no need for physical contact. That's just someone not paying attention.

Speaking of tracks...does anyone run on a track that smells when it rains? I have been at my HS track a couple of times recently when there has been a light rain. It has been just enough to wake up the smells of goose feathers and droppings and sweat and dirt and who knows what else...and it just REEKED. Wow. If it rains harder, it washes the smell away, but the light rain seems to be just enough to coax the smells out of the porous track surface...
 
ATTQOTD: I don't often find myself in crowded areas when training. Maybe just passing by on the sidewalk going in other directions. Or being passed on the sidewalk :)
I run A LOT of crowded races just because I sign up for popular Chicago ones often and I'm a middle of the pack runner. So there's usually lots of people going near my pace. (Disney races feel a normal amount of crowded to me.) So I am VERY used to being bumped sometimes. I try so hard not to bump anyone though even if that means sacrificing speed for a few seconds before I find a window. I'd rather not squeeze myself between people but there are times when I need to say Excuse Me politely but loudly to get through. Best bet is to find a faster runner that's carving a good path and follow them.

Side note: I am terrible at self seeding myself in local races with no corrals. I inevitable underestimate the number of walkers to runners and spend a decent chunk of time in the grass trying to get past them. Every time this happens. You'd think I'd learned by now to go farther up even if I'm not super speedy.
 
I leave room where another runner can run between me and others if possible, more space the better if possible. If I'm running on a path for training runs I give people wide space, I'll run off the path so not to crowd. No reason to graze someone especially on a training run area.
 


I did a 5k this weekend with my 9 year old, and he was so proud to finish 2nd in his age group at 40:07 (my younger son finishes second in his age group the week prior in a race, so I think he was also very relieved to not get shown up by his little brother). This week there is a Run the Runway event, where you watch sky divers during the afternoon and then do a 5k at night. I'm considering taking one of my daughter to that. She tells everyone she's going to be a skydiving scuba diver when she grows up, so this run would be right up her alley!
I'm putting this out there to hold myself accountable - I still have not done the 8 miles I was supposed to run last week. It's just so intimidating! I need to find local runners to go out with.
 
In a recreational situation, if the sport does not require contact then an apology or acknowledgement of error should be offered in the case of accidental contact. If none is given then it is an act of aggression and should be dealt with swiftly and mercilessly....oops sorry, went off the rails there at the end.

What I meant to type was “if none is given then that person is an *******. Steer clear of them if at all possible in the future.”
 
I did a 5k this weekend with my 9 year old, and he was so proud to finish 2nd in his age group at 40:07 (my younger son finishes second in his age group the week prior in a race, so I think he was also very relieved to not get shown up by his little brother). This week there is a Run the Runway event, where you watch sky divers during the afternoon and then do a 5k at night. I'm considering taking one of my daughter to that. She tells everyone she's going to be a skydiving scuba diver when she grows up, so this run would be right up her alley!
I'm putting this out there to hold myself accountable - I still have not done the 8 miles I was supposed to run last week. It's just so intimidating! I need to find local runners to go out with.
Skydiving scuba diver? So a Navy Seal?
 
Have I missed much?

I've been meaning to get back into the thread, but work has been distracting me, and injuries have kept me from consistent running until recently. I think I have that backwards. Isn't this supposed to distract me from work? 🤔 ... Hey look! New emojis!

What's the feeling from AP folks on the price increase? Unless the regular ticket prices are also jacked up, they may have broken our calculations on annual passes.
 
What's the feeling from AP folks on the price increase? Unless the regular ticket prices are also jacked up, they may have broken our calculations on annual passes.
My gut says, this is just the start of the price increases. I would expect all ticket prices to go up significantly as we get closer to the Star Wars opening.

As for Annual Passes, the theory is that Disney is trying to get more precise with crowd predictions so they can better price their single day tickets and measure capacity which will be used to manage expenses like labor needs, etc. The AP throws a variable into the mix they don't like. So many folks see the ridiculous increase as a way to weed out AP holders.

In general, we have all seen Disney continue to monetize anything they can and I see that trend continuing. The after hour events are a perfect example. Charging for Fast Passes is another one many think is coming.

An interesting one being discussed on the DVC Facebook group is Disney just announced a $110 July 4 event at Top of the World Lounge. Thus, members who own at Bay Lake Tower and who used their points 11 months out to make a reservation at BLT solely to watch the 4th of July fireworks from TOTWL - which is restricted to only members staying at BLT on points on July 4 - are now getting squeezed for $110 per person.
 
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In a recreational situation, if the sport does not require contact then an apology or acknowledgement of error should be offered in the case of accidental contact. If none is given then it is an act of aggression and should be dealt with swiftly and mercilessly....oops sorry, went off the rails there at the end.

What I meant to type was “if none is given then that person is an *******. Steer clear of them if at all possible in the future.”
I have a tendency to go off the rails as well. It happened again yesterday. I may have stolen his badge he leaves at the entrance of the the track and dropped it in the women's restroom. And dropped a note to his VP and the safety department about his reckless behavior. I did not throw his beverage into the retaining pond as I also considered, mostly out of respect for the wildlife.
In August there will be a different division out on the track holding time trials for their department teams for the company competition. They too will be unreasonable. In the past I just stopped running the track at lunch, I'm not sure I am going to give in this time.
 
What's the feeling from AP folks on the price increase? Unless the regular ticket prices are also jacked up, they may have broken our calculations on annual passes.
I'll try really hard not to make this a rant. :) Though honestly, I'm past ranting anymore and my mood can best be described as disappointed resignation.

I'm a FL resident and live 100 miles from WDW, so I visit often enough over a year that some kind of AP has always made sense - for 25 years! WDW's price increases in recent years have escalated far faster than my income, though, so I've been downgrading my APs and am currently at a Silver AP level. Now even that's going up $50 - and it isn't even eligible for SWGE previews. My son and I aren't go-go-go park people: we can only take a few hours at a time in the parks before needing a long break - I can't see me ever being willing to spend the exorbitant prices for day tickets we'll only use a short while, so I guess my calculations when our APs expire will be based on whether or not we plan to go to the parks at all over the following year. Frankly, I'm kind of ready to jump ship and move to Universal Orlando APs for a year.
 
How horrible are these hills? I live in FL so the biggest hills I have are stepping on and off curbs.

View attachment 410312

Looks to be 10 miles at 631 foot gain which is 63 feet per mile average with a mostly equal descent. The GAP average is probably going to work out somewhere around 10-12 seconds per mile slower than if it were perfectly flat. That's to say this elevation gain over the course of 10 miles would be a gain of about 2 minutes from a perfectly flat course. The uphills will probably cost you about 30-60 seconds per mile and the downhills will gain you about 15-30 seconds per mile. This is in no way a perfect system, but a roundabout guess based on Strava GAP conversions. I just reviewed some of my previous runs that had a 63 foot gain in a single mile on Strava to come up with this guess.

My normal route I run is 35-40 feet gain per mile. I would definitely say my hill that is 64 feet in 0.5 miles (or about 128 feet per mile) is noticeable. On yours, mile 7.9 to 8.6 represents a climb from 411 feet to 566 feet. That's a change of 155 feet in 0.7 miles (or about 221 feet per mile), which is nearly twice is much per mile as my training hill. The hill at mile 2.2 to 2.9 is similar. For comparison, the overpass in the Disney marathon is 97 feet to 115 feet (change of 18 feet) in 0.1 miles (or about 180 feet per mile). So it's steeper than the Disney marathon overpass climb and lasts for 7x longer and you do it twice in this 10 mile race.

Hope that helps!
 
Looks to be 10 miles at 631 foot gain which is 63 feet per mile average with a mostly equal descent. The GAP average is probably going to work out somewhere around 10-12 seconds per mile slower than if it were perfectly flat. That's to say this elevation gain over the course of 10 miles would be a gain of about 2 minutes from a perfectly flat course. The uphills will probably cost you about 30-60 seconds per mile and the downhills will gain you about 15-30 seconds per mile. This is in no way a perfect system, but a roundabout guess based on Strava GAP conversions. I just reviewed some of my previous runs that had a 63 foot gain in a single mile on Strava to come up with this guess.

My normal route I run is 35-40 feet gain per mile. I would definitely say my hill that is 64 feet in 0.5 miles (or about 128 feet per mile) is noticeable. On yours, mile 7.9 to 8.6 represents a climb from 411 feet to 566 feet. That's a change of 155 feet in 0.7 miles (or about 221 feet per mile), which is nearly twice is much per mile as my training hill. The hill at mile 2.2 to 2.9 is similar. For comparison, the overpass in the Disney marathon is 97 feet to 115 feet (change of 18 feet) in 0.1 miles (or about 180 feet per mile). So it's steeper than the Disney marathon overpass climb and lasts for 7x longer and you do it twice in this 10 mile race.

Hope that helps!

So should I cross this one of the list as a potential new POT race? There’s also one I’m looking at in MN, it’s described as mostly downhill. That’s pretty hard on the quads?
C5845918-DEDF-49B0-BA90-3BAB6EC6850F.png
 
How horrible are these hills? I live in FL so the biggest hills I have are stepping on and off curbs.

View attachment 410312

I am very familiar with this area as I drive this way every day to work. It is pretty hilly for people who are used to flat areas. If you are looking for flatter, look by the seacoast. Depending on when you are looking, there are some great races in the fall and the weather should be cooler.
 

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