The Running Thread - 2020

Lots of speculation regarding this. POT possibilities were one of the things floated on social media.

I can’t see them being dumb enough to use this for POT submissions. Giving your bib to a friend to run a legit race for you isn’t quite as simple as it sounds. Having them wear your Garmin in a training run or you wearing it while on a scooter are two very easy ways to cheat for a faster POT. I’m sure there are plenty more ways to do this too.
 
I can’t see them being dumb enough to use this for POT submissions. Giving your bib to a friend to run a legit race for you isn’t quite as simple as it sounds. Having them wear your Garmin in a training run or you wearing it while on a scooter are two very easy ways to cheat for a faster POT. I’m sure there are plenty more ways to do this too.

Honestly, the two that came to my mind were people tracking "runs" on a bicycle or an ATV. Or pause the garmin during water/walk breaks. It's not like track shack is going to look too closely at the times.

I do not like the idea of people using virtual times, AT ALL. I get there are people who have not run a race in the past 1.5 years to use as a POT who will be sorted into slower corrals, but that's a risk even with the POT system as your fitness level can drastically improve between the time you sign up and the time you run.
 
Lots of speculation regarding this. POT possibilities were one of the things floated on social media.
I agree. I am very curious myself. But most of the POT speculation on social media was more like wishful thinking and mostly dismissed. Do any of us really believe this is going to be a way to submit POT's?
 


I don’t. I think it’s more for the possibility that RunDisney races are canceled and given a virtual option.

Why would they start to care about time submissions for virtual races now? They’ve been happy to take people’s money for virtual runs without any proof of event completion up until this point. Tracking completion prior to sending medal out would only complicate things further for them. I also still think they’d be in for a huge backlash if they converted any of the race weekends to virtual events, given the high costs for them.
 
Why would they start to care about time submissions for virtual races now?
The only reasons I can think of are runDisney wanting us to more frequently use their site (more like Strava), or trying to justify keeping the fees for a cancelled W&D by requiring you to submit a virtual time in order to get shirts, medals, etc.

Neither one of these make a lot of sense to me, but when did all things runDisney ever make a lot of sense to me.
 
Why would they start to care about time submissions for virtual races now? They’ve been happy to take people’s money for virtual runs without any proof of event completion up until this point. Tracking completion prior to sending medal out would only complicate things further for them. I also still think they’d be in for a huge backlash if they converted any of the race weekends to virtual events, given the high costs for them.
True, but at the same time these races that may or may not be canceled we’re originally virtual. I also don’t think they’ll do a full out everyone only gets a virtual option of say Wine and Dine is canceled. I think they will have an option for people to get a refund like Star Wars or run a virtual and possibly get medals. I’d have to imagine they’ve put orders in for the medals for wine and dine. If canceled what do they do with thousands of dated medals? Look how many people went out on their own and ran the star wars races at home too.
 


True, but at the same time these races that may or may not be canceled we’re originally virtual. I also don’t think they’ll do a full out everyone only gets a virtual option of say Wine and Dine is canceled. I think they will have an option for people to get a refund like Star Wars or run a virtual and possibly get medals. I’d have to imagine they’ve put orders in for the medals for wine and dine. If canceled what do they do with thousands of dated medals? Look how many people went out on their own and ran the star wars races at home too.

If Wine & Dine gets cancelled...we're having our own race at Boardwalk that weekend! Let's have some fun :)
 
How recent do the races have to be to be a valid POT? Is there usually some period after registration that you can submit a time? I'm hoping to get an official race or two in sometime this Fall. Any chances that would be timely for SW next April (even though we'll be registering in August)?
 
How recent do the races have to be to be a valid POT? Is there usually some period after registration that you can submit a time? I'm hoping to get an official race or two in sometime this Fall. Any chances that would be timely for SW next April (even though we'll be registering in August)?
Disney has expanded the PoT periods a bit already to try and give people some more leeway there. A fall race this year would be perfectly fine for Star Wars next year. The problem is will there be fall races?
 
Why would they start to care about time submissions for virtual races now? They’ve been happy to take people’s money for virtual runs without any proof of event completion up until this point. Tracking completion prior to sending medal out would only complicate things further for them. I also still think they’d be in for a huge backlash if they converted any of the race weekends to virtual events, given the high costs for them.

I'd be very surprised if they allowed it for POT for other events.

Initially, I didn't think submitting a time would be required for a medal/items to be submitted to you. However, a quick glance at the Boston Marathon virtual seems to indicate that's what they're doing. Offering full refund or virtual option. If you choose virtual option, then you have to complete 26.2 miles continuously within 6 hours during what looks to be Sept 7-14th. So an incorporation of this system on the runDisney website could be a step towards something similar to what the BAA appears to be doing. It also appears based on the wording of the last section that the cost of the virtual event may not be the same as the original race cost in the case of Boston. But why would runDisney suddenly want a proof of completion for the event when runDisney in the past has had (and currently has) virtual events that don't require proof of completion for receipt of items? I'm not sure of that answer.

Best guess is the same as @rteetz in that these events were previously not virtual and thus they're treating them differently. But that also begs the question (right or not) that in the case of the real runDIsney event people did not have to finish the race live in order to receive a medal, so why require proof virtually for the same medal?

Screen Shot 2020-06-04 at 10.18.54 AM.png

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https://www.baa.org/124th-boston-marathon-be-held-virtually
I could see them compiling the information with "standings" but not actually awarding anything based on those standings. A local company has been doing that for free for several weeks now (submission of virtual times at different distances to create a mock standings that doesn't actually mean anything).

Given past actions it seems like a quasi-bizzare step. But I'll reserve opinion until I see what they actually intend on doing with the submitted time information.

How recent do the races have to be to be a valid POT? Is there usually some period after registration that you can submit a time? I'm hoping to get an official race or two in sometime this Fall. Any chances that would be timely for SW next April (even though we'll be registering in August)?

The POT deadline is around 12 weeks prior to the race itself. So an April 2021 SW race is going to have a POT deadline around January 2021. It used to be the window was 2 years from race date (so an April 2021 race would have a window of April 2019 through January 2021). But more recently, because of COVID19, they increased the window backwards an additional 6 months. So an April 2021 race could have a window of October 2018 through January 2021. The goal being that with cancelled races due to COVID19 thus far in Spring 2020 to allow more wiggle room in submittable times into a period when races were still occurring.
 
Personally, I think it's just Disney being Disney: "look, people love posting their run data all over the place, so why don't WE give 'em a place to post it?! And then we can find a way to monetize it..."

And if W&D goes to virtual, there'd better be the best freaking online "after party" EVER for what we paid, lol!
 
Personally, I think it's just Disney being Disney: "look, people love posting their run data all over the place, so why don't WE give 'em a place to post it?! And then we can find a way to monetize it..."

And if W&D goes to virtual, there'd better be the best freaking online "after party" EVER for what we paid, lol!

Maybe they’re going to set it up and market it as another “perk” for Club RunDisney members.
 
Honestly, the two that came to my mind were people tracking "runs" on a bicycle or an ATV. Or pause the garmin during water/walk breaks. It's not like track shack is going to look too closely at the times.

I do not like the idea of people using virtual times, AT ALL. I get there are people who have not run a race in the past 1.5 years to use as a POT who will be sorted into slower corrals, but that's a risk even with the POT system as your fitness level can drastically improve between the time you sign up and the time you run.

There are pretty accurate algorithms that can detect if an activity that is stated as a run isn't a run. Marathon investigations uses that method as does Strava now to disqualify KOM attempts that can't be real.

I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a service for RDs that lets you pass .FIT files though a site to find cheats without having to look closely. I would require a POT be run with a device that tracks cadence which goes a long way towards revealing if a running track really is a running track and all raw files will break out total time and running time.

Can someone cheat by giving their watch to someone faster? Yes. Could someone cheat by swapping bibs with a faster runner any other year just about as easily? Yep.
 
There are pretty accurate algorithms that can detect if an activity that is stated as a run isn't a run. Marathon investigations uses that method as does Strava now to disqualify KOM attempts that can't be real.

I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a service for RDs that lets you pass .FIT files though a site to find cheats without having to look closely. I would require a POT be run with a device that tracks cadence which goes a long way towards revealing if a running track really is a running track and all raw files will break out total time and running time.

Even if those kinds of services are available, what in their history makes you think rD would make use of them? They treat finisher medals as participation medals, don’t bother to look for or disqualify course cutters, and generally focus on positive customer interactions rather than a fair and accurate set of race results. I just don’t see it.
 
But why would runDisney suddenly want a proof of completion for the event when runDisney in the past has had (and currently has) virtual events that don't require proof of completion for receipt of items? I'm not sure of that answer.
Given their medal policy, the only thing I can come up with is that if they're going to need to change W & D to virtual and they want to keep the challenge open, they might require POT in order to receive the challenge medal.
 
QOTD: Replace the words in brackets to make a sentence:
Running [verb] [noun]

This week we celebrate International Running Day and we might need a spark of inspiration! Have fun, it’s Friday 🙂

ATTQOTD: I have a few ideas written down but I will wait for a few posts to reveal them.
 
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It is with "greyt" joy I introduce Austin:

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We adopted him this past Monday. He'll be 5 in July; retiring from professional racing a little over a year ago after around 130 starts. A mellow fellow, he needed a low-energy home. Not a fan of loud noises, and we have thunder in the area (again), so I must go now.
 

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