This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

Not to get off subject but another thing that I found rather odd was that his wife didn't come with him for the hearing. No way in heck would I let my husband face a courtroom of people that don't speak my language and put him through the mental torment without my support? I just found this a little odd to say the least?
 
Not to get off subject but another thing that I found rather odd was that his wife didn't come with him for the hearing. No way in heck would I let my husband face a courtroom of people that don't speak my language and put him through the mental torment without my support? I just found this a little odd to say the least?

I would assume he has an attorney with him so he’s not there alone. I would much rather have an attorney with me than my spouse if I was in a courtroom.
 


No way in heck would I let my husband face a courtroom of people that don't speak my language and put him through the mental torment without my support? I just found this a little odd to say the least?

Perhaps you are unaware, Puerto Rico is a U.S. Territory and as such, they speak both Spanish AND English.

Wiki (which may or may not be accurate):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language_in_Puerto_Rico

"English, along with Spanish, is an official language of the Government of Puerto Rico. "​


https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-languages-are-spoken-in-puerto-rico.html

"English and Spanish are the two most widely spoken languages in Puerto Rico, a US territory with a literacy rate of 99%."​
 
Not to get off subject but another thing that I found rather odd was that his wife didn't come with him for the hearing. No way in heck would I let my husband face a courtroom of people that don't speak my language and put him through the mental torment without my support? I just found this a little odd to say the least?
I don't think it makes a difference for a hearing in front of a judge. If his case goes before a jury, it could make a huge difference. I'm sure his attorney would do everything in their power to get her there. Hopefully, he will plead out. It would be extremely difficult for a grandmother to sit in the courtroom & see/hear the evidence.
 
I would assume he has an attorney with him so he’s not there alone. I would much rather have an attorney with me than my spouse if I was in a courtroom.
Of course he would have an attorney. A spouse or other loved ones being present for support is not precluded by that. I also think it's weird no family members were present.
I don't think it makes a difference for a hearing in front of a judge. If his case goes before a jury, it could make a huge difference. I'm sure his attorney would do everything in their power to get her there. Hopefully, he will plead out. It would be extremely difficult for a grandmother to sit in the courtroom & see/hear the evidence.
I'm not thinking of it so much as a tactic; more from the human standpoint of moral support. Unless of course this horrible incident has torn the family apart, which sadly is not impossible.
 


I'm not thinking of it so much as a tactic; more from the human standpoint of moral support. Unless of course this horrible incident has torn the family apart, which sadly is not impossible.

When he surrendered himself for arrest in PR, did he have to stay in prison a couple days? Maybe he didn't want his wife to be by herself during that time? Or, I imagine, there's not that many ways down to PR. They may have had to fly along the same airlines, enter the same airport, etc. The last time they did that, little Chloe was alive. Maybe his wife just couldn't stand the thought of going to PR again, until absolutely necessary?

Then, of course, since he's being described as elderly and doddering at 51, if his wife is a year or two older than him, she's absolutely decrepit and can't travel. :rolleyes:
 
This is a question I have for those of you who've been on this ship or another cruise ship this large: The ship was docked. Does it still move/rock a little back & forth even while docked? Or is it so big and heavy, that while docked, one really almost doesn't feel like they are on water?

Most of us here agree it was foolhardy of the grandfather to pick up the 18 month old old and perch her on the railing. Even doing that in a stable building on ground, it may have been dangerous. His own attorney admitted he let go of her for a second. There have been some news reports that said he also stumbled/lost his balance for a second.

So could the boat have rocked for a second? As it, it was even more stupid to stand an 18 month old on a railing, on a ship that clearly moves?
 
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Of course he would have an attorney. A spouse or other loved ones being present for support is not precluded by that. I also think it's weird no family members were present.

I'm not thinking of it so much as a tactic; more from the human standpoint of moral support. Unless of course this horrible incident has torn the family apart, which sadly is not impossible.
I agree that he could have used her support. Her absence doesn't appear to be what a supportive spouse would do, but I don't think it would have made a difference with the judge. When it comes to a jury trial, her lack of support would most likely appear she blames him for Chloe's death. If she knows everything about the situation & blames him, why wouldn't they find him guilty?
 
This is a question I have for those of you who've been on this ship or another cruise ship this large: The ship was docked. Does it still move/rock a little back & forth even while docked? Or is it so big and heavy, that while docked, one really almost doesn't feel like they are on water?
I've been on several cruise ships in the last 10 years. Yes, there is some movement, but not a lot. Some people can feel it more than others.
 
This is a question I have for those of you who've been on this ship or another cruise ship this large: The ship was docked. Does it still move/rock a little back & forth even while docked? Or is it so big and heavy, that while docked, one really almost doesn't feel like they are on water?

Most of us here agree it was foolhardy of the grandfather to pick up the 18 month old old and perch her on the railing. Even doing that in a stable building on ground, it may have been dangerous. His own attorney admitted he let go of her for a second. There have been some news reports that said he also stumbled/lost his balance for a second.

So could the boat have rocked for a second? As it, it was even more stupid to stand an 18 month old on a railing, on a ship that clearly moves?
There may be a slight rocking though I personally never felt a ship move at all while docked. But no way would there be enough movement to cause any trouble.

I feel bad because as the family persists with this nonsense that RC is liable, my sympathy for them wanes. It’s a terrible, awful thing that happened but suing the cruise line is ridiculous. And I’m appalled that this grandpa is only 51! I thought he was at least 70.
 
This is a question I have for those of you who've been on this ship or another cruise ship this large: The ship was docked. Does it still move/rock a little back & forth even while docked? Or is it so big and heavy, that while docked, one really almost doesn't feel like they are on water?

Most of us here agree it was foolhardy of the grandfather to pick up the 18 month old old and perch her on the railing. Even doing that in a stable building on ground, it may have been dangerous. His own attorney admitted he let go of her for a second. There have been some news reports that said he also stumbled/lost his balance for a second.

So could the boat have rocked for a second? As it, it was even more stupid to stand an 18 month old on a railing, on a ship that clearly moves?

Movement is imperceptible when lines are secured to dock cleats for a "cruise ship." The lines are wrapped around the cleat then "mechanically drawn tight" by power winches. Cruise ship DW and I were on 2 weeks ago used 12++ lines to secure when docked.
 
This is a question I have for those of you who've been on this ship or another cruise ship this large: The ship was docked. Does it still move/rock a little back & forth even while docked? Or is it so big and heavy, that while docked, one really almost doesn't feel like they are on water?

Most of us here agree it was foolhardy of the grandfather to pick up the 18 month old old and perch her on the railing. Even doing that in a stable building on ground, it may have been dangerous. His own attorney admitted he let go of her for a second. There have been some news reports that said he also stumbled/lost his balance for a second.

So could the boat have rocked for a second? As it, it was even more stupid to stand an 18 month old on a railing, on a ship that clearly moves?
I've been on that ship twice. I have never felt it move (tied to the dock or out in the ocean).

Regarding the bolded, "MAY" have been dangerous? Yes, I'd say standing a toddler on a railing 100'+ in the air in front of an open window IS dangerous, whether you're on a ship or in a stable building on the ground.
 
Does it still move/rock a little back & forth even while docked? Or is it so big and heavy, that while docked, one really almost doesn't feel like they are on water?
I've been on Oasis which is another large ship, and in our experience, we didn't feel it move while docked. I mean, I suppose its possible if the conditions are right - stormy with wind and whitecaps perhaps - but I don't think that's what we have here.
 
There may be a slight rocking though I personally never felt a ship move at all while docked. But no way would there be enough movement to cause any trouble.

I feel bad because as the family persists with this nonsense that RC is liable, my sympathy for them wanes. It’s a terrible, awful thing that happened but suing the cruise line is ridiculous. And I’m appalled that this grandpa is only 51! I thought he was at least 70.

Me too! He is actually 5 years younger than DH and looks at least 15 years older.
 
Perhaps you are unaware, Puerto Rico is a U.S. Territory and as such, they speak both Spanish AND English.

Wiki (which may or may not be accurate):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language_in_Puerto_Rico

"English, along with Spanish, is an official language of the Government of Puerto Rico. "​



https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-languages-are-spoken-in-puerto-rico.html

"English and Spanish are the two most widely spoken languages in Puerto Rico, a US territory with a literacy rate of 99%."​
I am quite aware that both Spanish and English are spoken in PR and I am also quite aware that PR is a US territory but from our frequent trips there, Spanish is the most readily spoken language but they can speak and understand English but usually speaking among themselves, they speak Spanish. We took a tour of the capital and governor's mansion in San Juan and there were two tours...one Spanish and one in English.

I am also aware that this person was represented by a lawyer who I assume is fluent in both Spanish and English but the wife could have been there to provide moral support. I certainly couldn't provide legal advise to my husband if he was in a similar position (God forbid) but I could certainly be there to provide loving support as I am sure this family is devastated.
 
Some new photos have been released as part of the lawsuit the family has against the cruise line. They were taken right after the accident.

Here is the exclusive article, and I will post the photos below it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-Chloe-Wiegand-sue-Royal-Caribbean-death.html
The railing, the distance between the railing and the window, and the "evidence tent" in the area where Chloe fell:

22083080-7778743-image-a-9_1576031802882.jpg


The infamous wall of windows and the yellow evidence tape surrounding the area:

22083090-7778743-image-a-5_1576031773745.jpg


A closer view:

22083076-7778743-image-a-11_1576031820611.jpg


22083078-7778743-image-a-10_1576031811142.jpg


And a picture of the row of windows and railing on another RC ship that the lawyers say is almost identical to the one Chloe fell from. (Which I think may also be the case for the picture just above but it is not labeled that way in article.)

21470188-7725811-Pictured_A_railing_against_an_open_window_on_a_Royal_Caribbean_s-a-4_1574777992418.jpg


Inside the article are pictures of walls of windows (that don't open) on other cruise ships.

Let the disagreements resume! :tiptoe:
 
I am not an attorney and don't really know what will happen--that is up to the lawyers. I do know that lifting a toddler up onto any railing and holding onto her with just one arm is dangerous, and that Royal's policy strictly forbids this. Will they be held responsible? Maybe. The family may very well "win" millions and millions of dollars. They will never get their little girl back. :(
 

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