US Women's National Soccer Team controversy

[Darklord77]

We are talking about pro athletes correct? If your feelings get hurt because you are getting stomped, then get better. Thailand gave up in the second half and deserved that beating and all the celebrating that goes along with it. My girls both play club soccer and saw that. But then again they throw away any medal or trophy that does not have Champion on it. I find it refreshing that these women are going out there with a seek and destroy mentality. I think the message is loud and clear that the US Women are not there to make friends. I say pour it on!


No such thing as a "good winner" or "good loser." Just winners and losers.

 

[BLAZEY]

We are talking about pro athletes correct? If your feelings get hurt because you are getting stomped, then get better. Thailand gave up in the second half and deserved that beating and all the celebrating that goes along with it. My girls both play club soccer and saw that. But then again they throw away any medal or trophy that does not have Champion on it. I find it refreshing that these women are going out there with a seek and destroy mentality. I think the message is loud and clear that the US Women are not there to make friends. I say pour it on!


No such thing as a "good winner" or "good loser." Just winners and losers.

No not all pro athletes. In the case of the USA the players may play on pro club teams back in the US, but this is considered an international tournament akin to the Olympic games. There just happens to be prize money for the winners, just like a gold medal get money. Just because the US happens to have a pro league and pull the players for their national team doesn't mean the rest of the players are pros.

 

[Colleen27]

I've never seen any team that didn't celebrate a goal. Have you ever seen a football, baseball, hockey or another soccer team that didn't celebrate a score, regardless of how far ahead they are? This entire topic is totally bizarre to me. Should all sports have a limit on how far ahead a team can be, before they have to stop celebrating scores? FWIW, I would feel no differently, if someone did the same thing to the US team.

Exactly. And I can't help feeling like this is a very gender-shaded conversation. If you substitute "World Series" for "World Cup" and "home run" for "goal", the whole thing just sounds absurd... because there are no circumstances under which we'd condemn a team for celebrating a single-game record setting/tying number of hits/RBIs/home runs in a World Series game, or where we'd fault a young member of a MLB team for celebrating his first World Series home run because the team was already ahead by an arbitrary number of runs. But women's soccer is not, for whatever reason, not thought of in the same sense as men's pro sports. A lot of the local commentators complaining about the celebrations are making comparisons to college or even high school/youth sports, not to other elite athletes playing at a professional level in the top event of their game.

 

[BLAZEY]

Exactly. And I can't help feeling like this is a very gender-shaded conversation. If you substitute "World Series" for "World Cup" and "home run" for "goal", the whole thing just sounds absurd... because there are no circumstances under which we'd condemn a team for celebrating a single-game record setting/tying number of hits/RBIs/home runs in a World Series game, or where we'd fault a young member of a MLB team for celebrating his first World Series home run because the team was already ahead by an arbitrary number of runs. But women's soccer is not, for whatever reason, not thought of in the same sense as men's pro sports. A lot of the local commentators complaining about the celebrations are making comparisons to college or even high school/youth sports, not to other elite athletes playing at a professional level in the top event of their game.

World series are professional and not a national team. This tournament is akin to Olympic games. Just because they US national team happens to a pull players from a pro league, the rest of the world doesn't.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Scoring a goal is a team goal. Celebrating together I do not believe is classless. People can say it is classless. It is their opinion, not a fact.

If excessive celebration when up big isn't lacking in the class department then what is? Nobody is saying don't be happy. Nobody is saying don't exchange 5s. But cut the excess. And though you haven't seen it in awhile, Buckeye fans would not be singing the same tune if Michigan ran it up on your Buckeyes and pulled some of that. But at least those two teams are on equal levels. U.S. vs Thailand is like Ohio St. vs FCS creampuff. Thailand wouldn't even be there if it weren't for North Korean shenanigans costing them.

 

[soccerdad72]

World series are professional and not a national team. This tournament is akin to Olympic games. Just because they US national team happens to a pull players from a pro league, the rest of the world doesn't.

Actually, I'd venture to say that most players on World Cup teams play for some sort of professional club. Granted, women's professional soccer doesn't have the same prestige (or $$$$) as men's, but they are mostly coming from professional teams.

 

[bcla]

World series are professional and not a national team. This tournament is akin to Olympic games. Just because they US national team happens to a pull players from a pro league, the rest of the world doesn't.

The definition of "professional" is kind of murky these days. The Thai players all play for club teams which some are clearly considered professional while others would provide benefits that wouldn't be allowed if someone wanted to maintain amateur status for the NCAA. That doesn't mean their paid as much as the US players.

For the most part, nobody really cares about "amateurism" any more outside of American college sports.

 

[Colleen27]

If excessive celebration when up big isn't classless what is? Nobody is saying don't be happy. Nobody is saying don't exchange 5s. But cut the excess. And though you haven't seen it in awhile, Buckeye fans would not be singing the same tune if Michigan ran it up on your Buckeyes and pulled some of that.

I think the disconnect is with the definition of excessive. Short of disrupting the game or taunting/mocking the opposing team, I really don't think there is a such thing as excessive celebration for a player's very first World Cup goal of her career, or of a record-tying performance by another player. These are things to celebrate, regardless of the score. I'd expect a Michigan QB to celebrate his first touchdown pass or a Buckeye kicker to celebrate a record-tying field goal, regardless of the score, too; the numbers on the scoreboard don't make the hard-fought personal achievement of those moments any less meaningful.

 

[bcla]

Actually, I'd venture to say that most players on World Cup teams play for some sort of professional club. Granted, women's professional soccer doesn't have the same prestige (or $$$$) as men's, but they are mostly coming from professional teams.

I've certainly heard about the convoluted club team systems around the world, with multiple teams where many players are paid and some are not. I also recall issues with international student-athletes coming to play NCAA sports, where there was a rule saying that if anyone played on a team with a player paid beyond allowable expenses, then that player would not be eligible under NCAA amateurism rules. And NCAA eligibility was hardly the concern of these clubs. They are opften underfunded and have players paid one season and not the next.

 

[soccerdad72]

On a side note - I just noticed when looking through the teams in the World Cup that the American's next opponent, Chile, is actually lower ranked in the world than Thailand is. Sunday could be interesting.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

World series are professional and not a national team. This tournament is akin to Olympic games. Just because they US national team happens to a pull players from a pro league, the rest of the world doesn't.

Interesting that professional baseball was mentioned. Guess what happens when someone celebrates excessively in MLB.
Here's a hint.

And we're not even talking about the equivalent of winning a world series. We're talking about the equivalent of winning in spring training against a split squad of guys destined for the minor leagues.

 

[soccerdad72]

Interesting that professional baseball was mentioned. Guess what happens when someone celebrates excessively in MLB.

And in baseball, "excessive celebration" can be as subtle as not running as fast around the bases as the other team thinks you should or staring back at the pitcher too long when they throw inside on you.

 

[Jennabeth]

I think the disconnect is with the definition of excessive. Short of disrupting the game or taunting/mocking the opposing team, I really don't think there is a such thing as excessive celebration for a player's very first World Cup goal of her career, or of a record-tying performance by another player. These are things to celebrate, regardless of the score. I'd expect a Michigan QB to celebrate his first touchdown pass or a Buckeye kicker to celebrate a record-tying field goal, regardless of the score, too; the numbers on the scoreboard don't make the hard-fought personal achievement of those moments any less meaningful.

Exactly! Many times back-up players are brought in during blowout football games and everyone still celebrates when they score, especially if it's the first time in this next phase of their sports career. I agree, unless they disrupt the game or taunt the other team, it's not excessive in my eyes. Everyone has their own definition of this.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I think the disconnect is with the definition of excessive. Short of disrupting the game or taunting/mocking the opposing team, I really don't think there is a such thing as excessive celebration for a player's very first World Cup goal of her career, or of a record-tying performance by another player. These are things to celebrate, regardless of the score. I'd expect a Michigan QB to celebrate his first touchdown pass or a Buckeye kicker to celebrate a record-tying field goal, regardless of the score, too; the numbers on the scoreboard don't make the hard-fought personal achievement of those moments any less meaningful.

All you've done is redefine excessive to the point where almost nothing is excessive.

 

[Darklord77]

No not all pro athletes. In the case of the USA the players may play on pro club teams back in the US, but this is considered an international tournament akin to the Olympic games. There just happens to be prize money for the winners, just like a gold medal get money. Just because the US happens to have a pro league and pull the players for their national team doesn't mean the rest of the players are pros.

Well if you don't bring your A-team, expect a beating on the field. If it's a Varsity match, the other team shouldn't bring the JV team. You're right, I'd be surprised if any of the Thailand players were pros. However that doesn't mean they are not the best from their country. The World Cup is a pro-level event.

 

[Darklord77]

And in baseball, "excessive celebration" can be as subtle as not running as fast around the bases as the other team thinks you should or staring back at the pitcher too long when they throw inside on you.

Baseball was my sport in HS. I still love it and love to watch games. However, the unwritten rules of conduct are stupid and part of what makes the game seem boring to some people. The thought of intentionally hitting someone with hard object traveling at 90 mph because they took too long running the bases always baffled me. Just like trying to intentionally injure a fielder to break up a double-play is ludicrous and I'm glad MLB has changed the rules to be more safety friendly.

 

[Sandeep1]

Again you need to get outside of your bubble for a bit. There is a great big world out there to enjoy.

And I can assure you I have seen much more of it than you have.

 

[Sandeep1]

In any sport when the game is out of hand, you show some class. Act like you've been there before even though you haven't. It isn't just Canada saying it was excessive. Plenty right here in the good ole USA are saying it too.

Nothing they did was disrespectful.

 

[Sandeep1]

On a side note - I just noticed when looking through the teams in the World Cup that the American's next opponent, Chile, is actually lower ranked in the world than Thailand is. Sunday could be interesting.

Wish they were playing Canada.

 

[soccerdad72]

Wish they were playing Canada.

Right now, it looks like that could be the Round of 16 matchup, I think.