US Women's National Soccer Team controversy

[DisMike]

Exactly. And I can't help feeling like this is a very gender-shaded conversation. If you substitute "World Series" for "World Cup" and "home run" for "goal", the whole thing just sounds absurd... because there are no circumstances under which we'd condemn a team for celebrating a single-game record setting/tying number of hits/RBIs/home runs in a World Series game, or where we'd fault a young member of a MLB team for celebrating his first World Series home run because the team was already ahead by an arbitrary number of runs. But women's soccer is not, for whatever reason, not thought of in the same sense as men's pro sports. A lot of the local commentators complaining about the celebrations are making comparisons to college or even high school/youth sports, not to other elite athletes playing at a professional level in the top event of their game.

Actually, untrue. If you're up 10 runs in a World Series game and you make a big deal about a home run you know what happens? The next time you're up the pitcher puts one in your ear. Same thing in football. You make a big deal about a touchdown when you're way up, you can count on getting leveled the next time you touch the ball. NBA. You make a big deal about making a shot when you're up 20 or so, you can count on getting fouled...hard the next time you touch the ball.

The problem with soccer is that, under normal circumstances, the goals are few, far between and tough to get. That's why soccer players make such a big deal about scoring. It's rare. The go-to reaction is celebration. It would be hard to switch that off it that's the usual.

I don't fault the ladies because of the soccer culture. Don't do it in baseball though unless you want your jaw wired together.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Granted I haven't exhaustively looked over this but from what I've seen I personally don't believe anything was truly excessive. The players just looked like they were estactic about their goal(s). I've been to games where my teams were slaughtered. That was never fun as a fan but I didn't sit there saying "gee they should stop celebrating" after every score and again like I said I don't believe anything was truly excessive.

I agree with a PP regarding having rules on what is considered too much; other sports over time have adapted rules regarding this.

The one thing that I think is universal is not celebrating an actual injury--speaking towards another incident mentioned in this thread. It's certainly not the first time it's happened in sports. I appreciate it though when collectively people all show respect and concern towards the injured player and dislike it when I don't see that happen.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Actually, untrue. If you're up 10 runs in a World Series game and you make a big deal about a home run you know what happens? The next time you're up the pitcher puts one in your ear. Same thing in football. You make a big deal about a touchdown when you're way up, you can count on getting leveled the next time you touch the ball. NBA. You make a big deal about making a shot when you're up 20 or so, you can count on getting fouled...hard the next time you touch the ball.

The problem with soccer is that, under normal circumstances, the goals are few, far between and tough to get. That's why soccer players make such a big deal about scoring. It's rare. The go-to reaction is celebration. It would be hard to switch that off it that's the usual.

I don't fault the ladies because of the soccer culture. Don't do it in baseball though unless you want your jaw wired together.

I'm not sure culturally speaking that's a good thing. Fines and penalties understandable to implement on a sports level. But physical retribution? That's unsportmanslike IMO no matter if it's 'tolerated' or not.

 

[Darklord77]

The problem with soccer is that, under normal circumstances, the goals are few, far between and tough to get. That's why soccer players make such a big deal about scoring. It's rare.

Very true. 3-0 or 4-0 at this level is considered a blowout.

Our national soccer team just had a historic victory and people are criticizing them for winning by too much and celebrating "excessively." I feel like I am in a Twilight Zone episode where winners are treated like losers. And who cares what the Canadians think? When the Canadians win something then they can give the Americans advice on celebrating!

 

[bcla]

On a side note - I just noticed when looking through the teams in the World Cup that the American's next opponent, Chile, is actually lower ranked in the world than Thailand is. Sunday could be interesting.

World Cup draws are purely random of course. Not sure that most reading this thread would know that. Some might assume that the groupings are based on seedings or perhaps from qualifications.

Just FYI for other readers, it's possible for the lowest 4 ranked teams to be in the same group, as well as the highest 4 ranked teams.

 

[bcla]

Very true. 3-0 or 4-0 at this level is considered a blowout.

Our national soccer team just had a historic victory and people are criticizing them for winning by too much and celebrating "excessively." I feel like I am in a Twilight Zone episode where winners are treated like losers. And who cares what the Canadians think? When the Canadians win something then they can give the Americans advice on celebrating!

The Thai team has embarassed opponents before. I was reading about games they played, and the took out Cambodia 11-0 as well as Malaysia 8-0. I saw one goal from the match with Cambodia where a Thai player just slowly walked in a goal while the Cambodian goalkeeper was lying face down on the field.

https://www.foxsportsasia.com/video...dia-11-0-at-the-womens-aff-u-19-championship/

 

[Pea-n-Me]

The Thai team has embarassed opponents before. I was reading about games they played, and the took out Cambodia 11-0 as well as Malaysia 8-0. I saw one goal from the match with Cambodia where a Thai player just slowly walked in a goal while the Cambodian goalkeeper was lying face down on the field.

https://www.foxsportsasia.com/video...dia-11-0-at-the-womens-aff-u-19-championship/

Ah! Interesting!
It did seem it was less the Thai team complaining than it was everyone else!

 

[maddiel]

World Cup draws are purely random of course. Not sure that most reading this thread would know that. Some might assume that the groupings are based on seedings or perhaps from qualifications.

Just FYI for other readers, it's possible for the lowest 4 ranked teams to be in the same group, as well as the highest 4 ranked teams.

No, it's not.

"The 24 teams were allocated to four pots based on the FIFA Women's World Rankings released on 7 December 2018, with hosts France automatically placed in Pot 1 and position A1 in the draw. Teams from Pot 1 were drawn first and assigned to Position 1. This was followed by Pot 2, Pot 3, and finally Pot 4, with each of these teams also drawn to one of the positions 2–4 within their group. No group could contain more than one team from each confederation apart from UEFA, which have nine teams, where three groups had to contain two UEFA teams apart from UEFA, which have nine teams, where three groups had to contain two UEFA teams.(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_FIFA_Women's_World_Cup)

Each group has one of the top six teams, one of the next six teams, one of the next six teams and one of the bottom six teams based on their FIFA rankings. There is an element of randomization, but each group ends up with four teams
spread evenly among the 4 quartiles. You could get two of the top 6 teams in one group if the home team was not naturally in the top 6, but never more than that in the same group and France is naturally in the top six so not an issue this year.

M.

 

[Darklord77]

The Thai team has embarassed opponents before. I was reading about games they played, and the took out Cambodia 11-0 as well as Malaysia 8-0. I saw one goal from the match with Cambodia where a Thai player just slowly walked in a goal while the Cambodian goalkeeper was lying face down on the field.

Ah! Interesting!
It did seem it was less the Thai team complaining than it was everyone else!

That was actually the U-19 Youth team and not the big girls World Cup team, but I get your point. I see no problem with lopsided victories. However the new American "everyone gets a trophy" movement does I guess.

 

[WorldWacky]

Well if you don't bring your A-team, expect a beating on the field. If it's a Varsity match, the other team shouldn't bring the JV team. You're right, I'd be surprised if any of the Thailand players were pros. However that doesn't mean they are not the best from their country. The World Cup is a pro-level event.

Boom...mic dropped.

 

[CT Yankee]

If you're a competitor you give it everything you have, when you're playing. Celebrating a score is a natural instinct.

Good sportsmanship should also be a natural instinct because every athlete knows what it is like to both win and lose. I totally get celebrating a score and a win, but the exuberance for every goal after it was clear that this would be a blowout was just a bit much.

Full disclosure - I always thought the goal celebrations were a bit excessive in soccer, for both the men and the women.

 

[galaxygirl76]

World Cup draws are purely random of course. Not sure that most reading this thread would know that. Some might assume that the groupings are based on seedings or perhaps from qualifications.

Just FYI for other readers, it's possible for the lowest 4 ranked teams to be in the same group, as well as the highest 4 ranked teams.

That's not how it works. I've watched my fair share of men's WC and EURO tourney drawings(this is what happens when you are born in a country where soccer is by far the largest sport) and there are many qualifications for a drawing. They don't want four high ranked teams in one group, that would kill your tournament in a hurry.

 

[bcla]

That's not how it works. I've watched my fair share of men's WC and EURO tourney drawings(this is what happens when you are born in a country where soccer is by far the largest sport) and there are many qualifications for a drawing. They don't want four high ranked teams in one group, that would kill your tournament in a hurry.

My bad. I thought it was a random draw.

 

[Sandeep1]

USA women mocked naysayers with golf claps after scoring today. Loved it!!!

 

[Searc]

USA women mocked naysayers with golf claps after scoring today. Loved it!!!

Classy.

 

[Sandeep1]

Classy.

It was actually. That's what people wanted right? A calm, respectful celebration so opponents aren't offended.

 

[lovin'fl]

Two phrases my mama used to say...'if you got it, flaunt it' and 'if you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen'. The whole purpose of a game is to win...and the purpose of this sport is to score a goal. Should they not do what the meaning of the game/sport is?

 

[LilyWDW]

USA women mocked naysayers with golf claps after scoring today. Loved it!!!

Good for them!

 

[Dizneefamily+4]

Exactly. And I can't help feeling like this is a very gender-shaded conversation. If you substitute "World Series" for "World Cup" and "home run" for "goal", the whole thing just sounds absurd... because there are no circumstances under which we'd condemn a team for celebrating a single-game record setting/tying number of hits/RBIs/home runs in a World Series game, or where we'd fault a young member of a MLB team for celebrating his first World Series home run because the team was already ahead by an arbitrary number of runs. But women's soccer is not, for whatever reason, not thought of in the same sense as men's pro sports. A lot of the local commentators complaining about the celebrations are making comparisons to college or even high school/youth sports, not to other elite athletes playing at a professional level in the top event of their game.

Exactly this. My daughter is on a state premier u14 team. You don't pull back or it IS insulting to the other team - especially if you know their reputation. In our recent state championships, we had to play against the #2 team in the state - my daughter's team is 14th. That team plays at a much higher level than our team does in league. They play in a US regional league, while our team plays the top teams in the state, they play the top teams in a 4-state region. That team blew us away and celebrated every single one of their 6 goals (to our zero) and rightfully so. They didn't put in their scrubs. They kept their top players in as they should. Our girls would've felt disrespected if they didn't. They were amazing to watch and I know they're used to scoring. Our girls learned from them - and I'm not talking about how to celebrate.

Edited for missed punctuation

 

[Darklord77]

It was actually. That's what people wanted right? A calm, respectful celebration so opponents aren't offended.

Some people find reasons to be offended and outraged.