used both universals new gac and disney`s during the worst crowd week ever

[mistysue]

What is happening here is two things- there are disabled people for whom the GAC was overkill. So Disney reacted to that, creating a system that is probably closer to meeting the actual NEED for most of the users.

Unfortunately, that creates a group of people for whom the DAS is complete garbage and does no good. So the solution is to let Disney know it didn't work, and recommend something that would work, then figure out how they are going to determine who gets to use this system. Because drawing the line at disabled/non-disabled just plain is not working.

In addition to overly generous perks inviting abuse, it invited overuse by those who qualify, but don't constantly need. The volume of disabled people at Disney is much higher than in most arenas of life. It is high enough that including the disabled and their party in a system of advantages directly effects the non-disabled population.
The argument of "how much" whoever gets done in a day is useless. Are they going to compare your disabled 3 year old to a "regular" 3 year old? How about my 3 year old who loses time because we can only eat at table service and has to wait for a chef, so during non busy times other groups are leaving before he has food? Should I get compensation? A ride pass? A meal voucher? What is normal? We may spend 2 hours at lunch when you go to the CS next door and you're out in 25 minutes. Not only do we get to do less, but we have to pay more to get the minimum level of food you are able to purchase for less. If this sounds silly, that's because it is. None of this is Disney's fault but it is the same type of argument for paying less admission for those who have less park time.
My DD can not handle more than a wait around 30 minutes, so we don't go on rides that require one. That won't work for everybody, but if the line were drawn at disabled/non-disabled we would qualify for whatever the perk was... so we can get by without anything extra, but if it's offered most people are going to take it.

I am not trying to debate anybody's opinion at all, just bring more perspective to try to help the actual problem faced: I don't think a workable solution has been found on these boards and I suspect Disney also has not been able to find a real answer. So if you want one, somebody needs to find it. The GAC is not an answer, they already tried that and it put too much stress on the system.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I think sometimes posters have an unrealistic view of what "typical" guests are really accomplishing while in the parks. There are many factors that influence how much people do while in the parks.

Earlier in this thread being at DHS for 4-5 hours and only doing a few things (1 ride, 1 character and popcorn). Well if all the lines were really long, I doubt any did much more in that time, especially at DHS where some shows are only at certain times.

 

[zela02]

What is happening here is two things- there are disabled people for whom the GAC was overkill. So Disney reacted to that, creating a system that is probably closer to meeting the actual NEED for most of the users. Unfortunately, that creates a group of people for whom the DAS is complete garbage and does no good. So the solution is to let Disney know it didn't work, and recommend something that would work, then figure out how they are going to determine who gets to use this system. Because drawing the line at disabled/non-disabled just plain is not working. In addition to overly generous perks inviting abuse, it invited overuse by those who qualify, but don't constantly need. The volume of disabled people at Disney is much higher than in most arenas of life. It is high enough that including the disabled and their party in a system of advantages directly effects the non-disabled population. The argument of "how much" whoever gets done in a day is useless. Are they going to compare your disabled 3 year old to a "regular" 3 year old? How about my 3 year old who loses time because we can only eat at table service and has to wait for a chef, so during non busy times other groups are leaving before he has food? Should I get compensation? A ride pass? A meal voucher? What is normal? We may spend 2 hours at lunch when you go to the CS next door and you're out in 25 minutes. Not only do we get to do less, but we have to pay more to get the minimum level of food you are able to purchase for less. If this sounds silly, that's because it is. None of this is Disney's fault but it is the same type of argument for paying less admission for those who have less park time. My DD can not handle more than a wait around 30 minutes, so we don't go on rides that require one. That won't work for everybody, but if the line were drawn at disabled/non-disabled we would qualify for whatever the perk was... so we can get by without anything extra, but if it's offered most people are going to take it. I am not trying to debate anybody's opinion at all, just bring more perspective to try to help the actual problem faced: I don't think a workable solution has been found on these boards and I suspect Disney also has not been able to find a real answer. So if you want one, somebody needs to find it. The GAC is not an answer, they already tried that and it put too much stress on the system.

Well said! It is impossible to do a, "one size fits all" answer. There will always be someone whose specific challenges are not being met.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Well said! It is impossible to do a, "one size fits all" answer. There will always be someone whose specific challenges are not being met.

Agreed. I also think that oftentimes, it isn't so much that challenges aren't being met as it is that the challenges aren't being met in the way the disabled person or their advocate wants them to be met.

 

[Jedana]

No not privileged but reasonable accomatations so we can experience the same for our $$ that those who are not disabled can.

Can I ask something? How many on here just come to debate this issue and don't have disabled children or family members that they go to the park with regularly? If you are here without a disabled family members interest why do you feel the need to be on this board? And why are you acting like something is being given to "us" and not "you"? How does this impact your life at all?? We would still be online in front of you anyway at some point. This was to help make the experience enjoyable instead of miserable for people who are disabled or have disabled children...What in the grand scheme is the big deal if a disabled person wait a little less than you? Most of the park attractions a typically disabled person can't even attempt to do. Trust me you all who don't have to deal with a disability have it way way over on us. You get more out of the Disney experience than my son will get in his entire lifetime.

My husband is disabled. Well, he's dying, but he's classified disabled by the US Government. He has never once asked for any kind of accommodation. He qualifies for a parking placard--won't get one. He was on disability for awhile, until he was able to find a job that worked with his needs---but never stopped trying to work.

We spend 4 hours a night doing a medical treatment to extend his life, until someone dies, and gives him the organ he needs to live. (Great way to think, huh? It's been 6 years, and I catch myself watching the news, wondering if there were any motorcycle or car accidents overnight. It's horrifying to go down that road, it truly is...)

He can't do the water parks or the beach. That treatment my husband does includes two 14 gauge needles going into his arm daily. Going into possibly contaminated water that can cause an infection is out.

That treatment makes my husband very very tired...he can handle about 3 or 4 hours on his feet, and then he needs to nap. (he works at a desk, in a/c, so he is able to work f/t....if he were in any job with any physical work, he wouldn't be able to do it.) So we do what we can in that time frame, and then he goes to nap. We usually go with him, and give DS some decompression time as well (although he's usually ok, as long as he's eating enough to replace that energy he is burning off ...)


I have two nephews who are autistic--one of whom is 6 months younger than my son (10) and is not able to be potty trained, nor can he communicate verbally. The other is potty trained (a month younger than DS), and can only communicate with grunts, but also is easily agitated, and likes to "rock" all the time. Both have been to DL with us, at the same time. We didn't use a GAC (didn't know they existed) but did what they could handle in the time we were there.

So, yeah, I can honestly say....

If you or your loved one can't handle the crowds, then don't go during busy times. If you or your loved one can't handle the heat, don't go to WDW during the summer. If you or your loved one can't handle the lines, then use the DAS, go sit down somewhere else, and then come back. If I'm standing in line with my family for 2 hours for a ride, then you can wait that 2 hours for the ride...even if it's elsewhere. But you don't get to jump in front of me.


The ADA is not an agency. It is an Act, enabled by the government, to ensure equal access or reasonable accommodation. Disney has provided that reasonable accommodation.

And those parents who are teaching their kids the world owes them, because they are different---well, those people are the problem. Yes---those parents who are not working with their kid on how to handle "the real world"----those are the problem.

BTW--my nephews attend a "regular" school. Both have to wait in line to go to recess, or to lunch or to the library. Both are learning to deal with that--the nonverbal one will sit and "draw" with his finger on the floor until his aide holds his hand to move him and the verbal one "rocks" but stays in line...because they have been taught to do so. Can every child be taught to wait? No, but those who aren't trying to teach their kid are doing them a disservice.

 

[paisleys]

I think sometimes posters have an unrealistic view of what "typical" guests are really accomplishing while in the parks. There are many factors that influence how much people do while in the parks.

Earlier in this thread being at DHS for 4-5 hours and only doing a few things (1 ride, 1 character and popcorn). Well if all the lines were really long, I doubt any did much more in that time, especially at DHS where some shows are only at certain times.

So true! I guess we would be considered 'typical' but we've had days where we only got onto one ride during high volume crowd seasons. I remember once the only ride we got on was one another guest had given us their fp for as they couldn't take the crowds anymore.

I also wanted to add that I have been following this thread and am a Floridian. I know first hand people who have abused the GAC. One guy who can park hop and wander the parks for 12 hours at a time, golfs, but was getting the GAC because his 'legs hurt sometimes'. Boy did he go ballistic on the CM when they wouldn't give him a DAS their last trip and recommended he get a wheelchair! I agree with the posters who are saying that the GAC system could not go on as it was, it was collapsing the fp system. I think it was more the people who qualified for GAC than the cheaters that actually collapsed the system with so many people diagnosed. I do hope they work out the wheelchair issues though.
When I listen to people like 4nuts go on and on about her demands and how they can't do as much as 'the typical', I think of my daughter's little playmate. Her father was killed in a car accident right before she started Kindergarten. It would have been nice if she could have gone to Disney and ridden some rides with her dad before he passed. People who see 'typical' families don't have crystal balls to know what's in store for anyone's future. You can't compare yourself to anyone. Disney does a fantastic job of trying to accommodate the masses (millions) and I admire them for it, especially how they treat the MAW children. I find it crazy that some of these posters will attack the very company that his given them so many magical memories. They say Disney has made their child feel 'normal' and magical in the past, then in the same breath now they are screeching about suing and how evil Disney is (check out The Tragic Kingdom). Disney has given me more magical memories than any person deserves, even on the one ride days.
Finally, my heart goes out to people like the last poster, Jedana. I find you to be brave and inspiring.

 

[McDonald5]

My husband is disabled. Well, he's dying, but he's classified disabled by the US Government. He has never once asked for any kind of accommodation. He qualifies for a parking placard--won't get one. He was on disability for awhile, until he was able to find a job that worked with his needs---but never stopped trying to work.

We spend 4 hours a night doing a medical treatment to extend his life, until someone dies, and gives him the organ he needs to live. (Great way to think, huh? It's been 6 years, and I catch myself watching the news, wondering if there were any motorcycle or car accidents overnight. It's horrifying to go down that road, it truly is...)

He can't do the water parks or the beach. That treatment my husband does includes two 14 gauge needles going into his arm daily. Going into possibly contaminated water that can cause an infection is out.

That treatment makes my husband very very tired...he can handle about 3 or 4 hours on his feet, and then he needs to nap. (he works at a desk, in a/c, so he is able to work f/t....if he were in any job with any physical work, he wouldn't be able to do it.) So we do what we can in that time frame, and then he goes to nap. We usually go with him, and give DS some decompression time as well (although he's usually ok, as long as he's eating enough to replace that energy he is burning off ...)


I have two nephews who are autistic--one of whom is 6 months younger than my son (10) and is not able to be potty trained, nor can he communicate verbally. The other is potty trained (a month younger than DS), and can only communicate with grunts, but also is easily agitated, and likes to "rock" all the time. Both have been to DL with us, at the same time. We didn't use a GAC (didn't know they existed) but did what they could handle in the time we were there.

So, yeah, I can honestly say....

If you or your loved one can't handle the crowds, then don't go during busy times. If you or your loved one can't handle the heat, don't go to WDW during the summer. If you or your loved one can't handle the lines, then use the DAS, go sit down somewhere else, and then come back. If I'm standing in line with my family for 2 hours for a ride, then you can wait that 2 hours for the ride...even if it's elsewhere. But you don't get to jump in front of me.


The ADA is not an agency. It is an Act, enabled by the government, to ensure equal access or reasonable accommodation. Disney has provided that reasonable accommodation.

And those parents who are teaching their kids the world owes them, because they are different---well, those people are the problem. Yes---those parents who are not working with their kid on how to handle "the real world"----those are the problem.

BTW--my nephews attend a "regular" school. Both have to wait in line to go to recess, or to lunch or to the library. Both are learning to deal with that--the nonverbal one will sit and "draw" with his finger on the floor until his aide holds his hand to move him and the verbal one "rocks" but stays in line...because they have been taught to do so. Can every child be taught to wait? No, but those who aren't trying to teach their kid are doing them a disservice.

It's amazing to me that someone who was just trying to help people plan their trip to disney with a disabled child, gets torn to shreds and then banned for defending herself against a bunch of hateful comments. But people like you are allowed to judge their parenting of their child whom you know nothing about. She is not "doing her child a disservice" for trying to give him a wonderful day in his very difficult life. He knows how to wait in line (he's patiently waited in plenty of lines every day at school and at Disney, etc). This isn't a parenting or child competition so stop making it one. Just because you choose to live your life one way doesn't mean everyone needs to. Let her parent her child her way and you parent yours your way.

 

[Jedana]

It's amazing to me that someone who was just trying to help people plan their trip to disney with a disabled child, gets torn to shreds and then banned for defending herself against a bunch of hateful comments. But people like you are allowed to judge their parenting of their child whom you know nothing about. She is not "doing her child a disservice" for trying to give him a wonderful day in his very difficult life. He knows how to wait in line (he's patiently waited in plenty of lines every day at school and at Disney, etc). This isn't a parenting or child competition so stop making it one. Just because you choose to live your life one way doesn't mean everyone needs to. Let her parent her child her way and you parent yours your way.

She can parent however she wants.

But she still doesn't get to jump in front of me in line---anywhere. At a grocery store, at a bank, at the DMV and certainly not at an amusement park.

As I have said before---accommodation does not mean instant access.

And I stand by my comment. You are doing your child a disservice if you are not teaching them how to live in the real world. That means (but is not limited to) waiting your turn, sometimes in a line and that physically touching or injuring someone else is not ok. {I am NOT saying that Nuts's kid is that way...I'm saying it as a blanket statement}

It's ok to be different. But YOUR rights end where MINE begin--whether you are disabled or not. I wouldn't expect a disabled person to stand aside and wait for me to be taken care of first if I came up after them...but I do expect them to wait if I was there first.

 

[SueM in MN]

"Because of its location in the center of North America, the Twin Cities region is subjected to some of the widest range of temperatures in the United States. Temperatures in the Twin Cities region range from an average of 13.1 °F (−11 °C) in January to 73.2 °F (23 °C) in July. With no natural barriers to block cold air from pouring south from Canada, the Twin Cities are subjected to many arctic air masses throughout the winter months.These arctic air masses bring with them very cold temperatures and sometimes strong winds, resulting in dangerous wind chill values. The Twin Cities has a comparable average summer temperatures to other nearby metropolitan areas such as Chicago, but the arctic outbreaks during the winter push the average winter temperature of the Twin Cities well below that of Chicago's. Despite being located just 350 miles (563 km) from Chicago, the Twin Cities' average January of temperature of 13.1 °F (−11 °C) is well below Chicago's 22.0 °F (−6 °C). During summer months, Minneapolis can be subject to very hot temperatures from May to August,and very high humidity."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_the_Twin_Cities

Twin Cities, Minnesota residents hunkered down to prepare for cold
http://www.bringmethenews.com/2014/01/05/milk-bread-tp-hunkered-down-minnesotans-wont-go-hungry/

Easywdw crowd calendars
http://www.easywdw.com/category/disneybest/besttime/

So, what does how cold it is in Minnesota in winter have to do with a thread about going to WDW during the worst crowd week?

1) The conditions are known and information can be found in many places.
Anyone who doesn't understand Minnesota is cold in winter or Disney World is busy over Christmas has not looked very hard.

2) Ways to prepare for the likely conditions are also known and can be found in many places.
Anyone who doesn't prepare for winter in a Minnesota is going to have a pretty miserable winter.
Anyone who is not prepared for WDW during the very busy time is going to have a harder time and see less than someone who is going during the slowest times.

3) The preparation is up to the person and the experience is largely going to be dependent on the preparation.
Expecting Disney to magically make lines disappear if I am knowingly going during the busiest time of year is a bit like expecting food to magically appear in my kitchen just because it's too cold and difficult for me to go out for it.

So, with this, I am closing this thread.