Virginia Beach: 11 people killed in mass shooting, police say

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I think that Americans have completely given up on this issue, which is why people just keep moving along every time this happens. The last one that really got to me was Las Vegas and that was partially because a few weeks earlier I was actually in that exact location and had also attended a street concert in another area where me and my family could have been used as target practice.


I try not to focus on it now because I know that nothing will ever be done about it. People don’t want to pay for healthcare let alone mental health facilities. They don’t want any restrictions on guns at all. This might change as younger voters become the majority...and they were last election cycle. But it will take years for the courts to catch up and help fix this, with the way our system is set up. I feel that we are doomed to endure this until the people who really want these things to change are in control. And even then...we are a violent nation, it probably wont change anything.

I don't think this is true at all. Not sure who "they" is in your post but all the "theys" that I talk to do want some kinds of regulations. They don't want to lose their right to bear arms but they do want some regulations on ownership. But there has to be a meeting of the minds, somewhere between "ban all guns" and "the wild west".

To say we are "doomed" is just a bit dramatic. No one is doomed.
 
It is different but the suicide problem is nearly as bad.


You know, some of the people that complain that they are treated badly for being religious are usually the people who blame all the ills of the world on non religious people and atheists. When you throw rocks at people, they might toss one back at you.

Yes it is but that's not something that gun control will fix.
 
I don't think this is true at all. Not sure who "they" is in your post but all the "theys" that I talk to do want some kinds of regulations. They don't want to lose their right to bear arms but they do want some regulations on ownership. But there has to be a meeting of the minds, somewhere between "ban all guns" and "the wild west".

To say we are "doomed" is just a bit dramatic. No one is doomed.
I live in one of the most liberal cities in the country and I can't think of a single person who has ever said, ban all guns.

No one is doomed? I am pretty sure the people who have lost their lives and their loved ones feel pretty doomed by this.
 
It is different but the suicide problem is nearly as bad.


You know, some of the people that complain that they are treated badly for being religious are usually the people who blame all the ills of the world on non religious people and atheists. When you throw rocks at people, they might toss one back at you.
Um, okay. Who’s throwing rocks? I threw none, nor did I notice anyone throwing any at me. I ask because your last sentence contains the word “you” twice, so I am left to assume you are accusing me of throwing rocks as well as being the intended target of other rock-throwers. I fail to see when or how either of these took place. Maybe you could point me in the right direction?
 


Um, okay. Who’s throwing rocks? I threw none, nor did I notice anyone throwing any at me. I ask because your last sentence contains the word “you” twice, so I am left to assume you are accusing me of throwing rocks as well as being the intended target of other rock-throwers. I fail to see when or how either of these took place. Maybe you could point me in the right direction?
You don't even realize how insulting your post was to people who are not religious or who have no faith. You were corelating that lack of faith goes along with mass shootings. And then you followed it up with by complaining that people say negative things about your faith.

You said, "Maybe my perception is skewed, but I can’t help but see a correlation between the increase in the number of mass murders of total strangers and the decline of faith in our country. (Selfless) thoughts, and prayers (pre-shooting) seem to be rare birds these days. "


Then you said, "I have also noticed it has even now become socially acceptable to mock someone’s faith and imply that they are somehow intellectually inferior because they foolishly believe in something that can’t be seen or heard. It’s true though, humans are almost too smart. Science’s stack of chips continues to grow while Faith is considering pawning it’s watch just to stay in the game. But then again, there is the Jastrow quote... "
 
I live in one of the most liberal cities in the country and I can't think of a single person who has ever said, ban all guns.

No one is doomed? I am pretty sure the people who have lost their lives and their loved ones feel pretty doomed by this.

It's pretty rare to come across people who think ALL guns should be banned. Unfortunately, those who can't imagine life without their guns do not want to consider that is not where most are coming from. If PEOPLE have changed, and not guns, then the access PEOPLE have to guns needs to change. It really shouldn't be this difficult. If you are afraid YOU do not fit the criteria for gun ownership, you probably have other things you should be focusing on also.

And yes, it's pretty heartless to say "no one" is doomed when mass shootings are happening as often as they are. There's no way to prevent being in a mass shooting at this point, you just need to hope you aren't in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
You don't even realize how insulting your post was to people who are not religious or who have no faith. You were corelating that lack of faith goes along with mass shootings. And then you followed it up with by complaining that people say negative things about your faith.

You said, "Maybe my perception is skewed, but I can’t help but see a correlation between the increase in the number of mass murders of total strangers and the decline of faith in our country. (Selfless) thoughts, and prayers (pre-shooting) seem to be rare birds these days. "


Then you said, "I have also noticed it has even now become socially acceptable to mock someone’s faith and imply that they are somehow intellectually inferior because they foolishly believe in something that can’t be seen or heard. It’s true though, humans are almost too smart. Science’s stack of chips continues to grow while Faith is considering pawning it’s watch just to stay in the game. But then again, there is the Jastrow quote... "

Perhaps you missed the portion of the conversation here that included a poster that wondered if thoughts and prayers were actually causing an increase in the number of shootings. My post was in response to that poster. If you did miss it, it’s very easy to find. Just look at the post of mine which you have now quoted twice.

Also, your last sentence. That one is a real doozy. First, I did not complain about people saying negative things. I merely stated that I have observed a trend in which it has become socially acceptable to mock people of faith. And the real gems of your post are the last two words.

You said:
“And then you followed it up with by complaining that people say negative things about your faith.“

My faith??? How do you know I practice any faith at all? For all you know about me, I might be one of those people that should be insulted by my own post. I find myself wondering if, because you seem to disagree with my post (totally respectable), you might be looking for other, more cynical inferences within my post that are not truly there?
 
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Perhaps you missed the portion of the conversation here that included a poster that wondered if thoughts and prayers were actually causing an increase in the number of shootings. My post was in response to that poster. If you did miss it, it’s very easy to find. Just look at the post of mine which you have now quoted twice.

Also, your last sentence. That one is a real doozy. First, I did not complain about people saying negative things. I merely stated that I have observed a trend in which it has become socially acceptable to mock people of faith. And the real gems of your post are the last two words.

You said:
“And then you followed it up with by complaining that people say negative things about your faith.“

My faith??? How do you know what my faith is? More importantly, how do you know I practice any faith at all? For all you know about me, I might be one of those people that should be insulted by my own post. I find myself wondering if, because you disagree with my post (totally respectable), you might be looking for other, more cynical inferences within my post that are not truly there?

I quoted you, its really very simple. You blamed mass shootings on the increase of people without faith.
 
Right now there is no compromise. That is what frustrates people. Bump stocks were finally outlawed by presidential order, congress refused to act. Sandy Hook parents wanted one single thing, changes in extended magazines. an item that has no purpose other than genocide and an item used in every attack. Sorry no was the answer. Sorry about the classroom of your first graders but we will not budge. .
 
I quoted you, its really very simple. You blamed mass shootings on the increase of people without faith.
I did not blame anyone for anything. I shared an observation in a thread that is full of observations in an effort to make sense of these terrible events. Some have postulated that things like lax guns laws in some states, the increasing encroachment of technology in our lives (and the resulting disconnect of human, face to face interaction), the breakdown of what one might call a “traditional family structure”, etc. as possible contributors to the increase in gun violence. We’re any of those posts meant to insult, say, smartphone owners? Hardly. Again, it seems you are looking for inferences within my post that are simply not there. I am truly sorry if you found my post insulting.

I’m curious if you’d be so kind as to answer the question I asked in a previous post. How do you know I practice any faith at all?
 
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I live in one of the most liberal cities in the country and I can't think of a single person who has ever said, ban all guns.

No one is doomed? I am pretty sure the people who have lost their lives and their loved ones feel pretty doomed by this.

And I live in one of the most conservative states in the country and I can't think of a single person that has said not to have any regulations.

See, this is exactly what I mean. Minds have to come together.
 
I did not blame anyone for anything. I shared an observation in a thread that is full of observations in an effort to make sense of these terrible events. Again, it seems you are looking for inferences within my post that are simply not there. I am truly sorry if you found my post insulting.

I’m curious if you’d be so kind as to answer the question I asked in a previous post. How do you know I practice any faith at all?
That was an assumption based on your post, most people without faith do not type up a few paragraphs on the ills of lack of faith. Or lack of praying by young people. Followed up by complaining that people say negative things about faith. My original point being. People say crappy things to and about each other, but many times people say completely thoughtless insensitive things and they are often times greeted in return with a negative response.

"I would submit that there is a completely different set of thoughts and prayers that are being overlooked. It’s clear that faith (of any kind) among Americans is rapidly declining. Perhaps, if more thoughts and prayers during childhood, adolescence and young adulthood were said for, and more importantly BY the types of people that eventually go on to commit these terrible acts, the frequency with which they are committed would be far less?

Maybe my perception is skewed, but I can’t help but see a correlation between the increase in the number of mass murders of total strangers and the decline of faith in our country. (Selfless) thoughts, and prayers (pre-shooting) seem to be rare birds these days.

I have also noticed it has even now become socially acceptable to mock someone’s faith and imply that they are somehow intellectually inferior because they foolishly believe in something that can’t be seen or heard. It’s true though, humans are almost too smart. Science’s stack of chips continues to grow while Faith is considering pawning it’s watch just to stay in the game. But then again, there is the Jastrow quote..."
 
It's pretty rare to come across people who think ALL guns should be banned. Unfortunately, those who can't imagine life without their guns do not want to consider that is not where most are coming from. If PEOPLE have changed, and not guns, then the access PEOPLE have to guns needs to change. It really shouldn't be this difficult. If you are afraid YOU do not fit the criteria for gun ownership, you probably have other things you should be focusing on also.

And yes, it's pretty heartless to say "no one" is doomed when mass shootings are happening as often as they are. There's no way to prevent being in a mass shooting at this point, you just need to hope you aren't in the wrong place at the wrong time.

And yet you refer to people as "can't imagine life without their guns". THAT is part of the problem. And just as its rare to find someone who thinks all guns should be banned, it is equally rare for someone to not want any regulations on them. But they also realize that any laws regulating guns are a very sticky thing. We wouldn't want regulations to snowball into banning of any guns.

And the doomed was in reference to the pp saying the country is doomed because of the laws. It has nothing to do with the death of these people. Why would I refer to people who have died as "not doomed" that doesn't even begin to make sense.
 
And I live in one of the most conservative states in the country and I can't think of a single person that has said not to have any regulations.

See, this is exactly what I mean. Minds have to come together.
Except in practice that isn't what is happening with conservatives. I come from an area that has dead deer hanging from everyones trees in the fall, I have zero issue with people owning guns. When you talk about actual regulations with conservatives most would like something but wouldn't vote for it because they're convinced its a slippery slope.
 
And yet you refer to people as "can't imagine life without their guns". THAT is part of the problem. And just as its rare to find someone who thinks all guns should be banned, it is equally rare for someone to not want any regulations on them. But they also realize that any laws regulating guns are a very sticky thing. We wouldn't want regulations to snowball into banning of any guns.

And the doomed was in reference to the pp saying the country is doomed because of the laws. It has nothing to do with the death of these people. Why would I refer to people who have died as "not doomed" that doesn't even begin to make sense.
"We are doomed to endure this", is not complicated. *facepalm*
 
That was an assumption based on your post, most people without faith do not type up a few paragraphs on the ills of lack of faith. Or lack of praying by young people. Followed up by complaining that people say negative things about faith. My original point being. People say crappy things to and about each other, but many times people say completely thoughtless insensitive things and they are often times greeted in return with a negative response.

"I would submit that there is a completely different set of thoughts and prayers that are being overlooked. It’s clear that faith (of any kind) among Americans is rapidly declining. Perhaps, if more thoughts and prayers during childhood, adolescence and young adulthood were said for, and more importantly BY the types of people that eventually go on to commit these terrible acts, the frequency with which they are committed would be far less?

Maybe my perception is skewed, but I can’t help but see a correlation between the increase in the number of mass murders of total strangers and the decline of faith in our country. (Selfless) thoughts, and prayers (pre-shooting) seem to be rare birds these days.

I have also noticed it has even now become socially acceptable to mock someone’s faith and imply that they are somehow intellectually inferior because they foolishly believe in something that can’t be seen or heard. It’s true though, humans are almost too smart. Science’s stack of chips continues to grow while Faith is considering pawning it’s watch just to stay in the game. But then again, there is the Jastrow quote..."
Fair enough. Thank you for responding with a thoughtful explanation of your point of view.

I should add, my participation in this thread is not motivated by any desire to advance a narrative that is pro-faith. Though, it is true that a large percentage of attacks are perpetrated at various places of worship. Maybe that fact has a rightful place in this conversation; maybe not.

I, like probably so many here, am looking for an explanation as to why this keeps happening (anywhere) with more and more frequency. If anything, it is my proximity to gun violence, and an even closer proximity to violence that was falsely claimed by its perpetrators to be religiously motivated (how’s that for irony?!!!) that has led me to participate in this thread.

I think it’s safe to say that, at its core, this thread is a place that probably everyone here has come to try to make sense of all of this. To that end, I think it only fair that everyone have the opportunity to share their opinions, or at the very least wonder aloud.
 
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My two older kids - one born the year Columbine happened and the other just weeks after 9/11 - have similar attitudes. Mass shootings are just part of the background noise of life for them. And unfortunately, I think that degree of adjustment will make solutions even harder to find, because to a lot of these kids - not all, of course; the Parkland kids come to mind - the idea of somehow getting rid of mass shootings is about on par with the notion of eliminating tornados or car accidents. A nice thought, but fundamentally impossible.



I think it is very, very hard to overstate the degree to which feelings of insecurity and vulnerability play into this. The rest of the developed world can take certain fundamentals in life more or less for granted - the idea that one could be diagnosed with cancer and sent home to die for lack of the ability to pay for treatment, or be bankrupted by a heart attack, or see their social security garnished for their student loan debt imposes a fairly extreme chronic stress load on many if not most Americans, and our brains and bodies just aren't wired to function properly under those conditions. That not only leads to acute mental health crises but also to high rates of "diseases of despair" like addiction, alcoholism and suicidal tendencies. Add in the cost and stigma of mental health care and the "rugged individualist" mythos that hobbles traditional/informal support networks, and you've got a recipe for disaster that doesn't exist in any other comparably modern nation.
I think this is exactly the difference in our culture vs other countries. I don’t think it has anything to do with guns. My only concern with guns is not giving ppl access to weapons that can cause mass casualties in a small period of time. But, I think it’s ironic that those qualities which have made us “better” or more powerful as a country (the rugged individualism you mentioned) are what is also leading to the demise of it. Not to excuse anyone’s behavior, but ppl can only take so much. There are so many who feel disenfranchised & think the ppl they inflict this terror on deserve it somehow. The internet makes it worse b/c ppl can more easily ruminate on their perceived (or real) injustices. I don’t think things have changed from decades ago b/c ppl are just different. I think it’s a culmination of how things were then that have caused things to reach this point now. Ppl can only be told “suck it up, buttercup” so many times before they snap. It’s not just mental health but improving the overall quality of life for everyone instead of the attitude that if your life sucks you must have done something to deserve it.
 
We're not supposed to be discussing religion on these boards, so I can't reply at length, but people don't need to follow a certain (or any) religious belief system to be good people who don't shoot up a room full of others. And people who do follow such a system are not always kind and loving.
I agree...and sometimes they even shoot up ppl in the name of that religion.

But, I will add that I have experienced working with youth in the criminal justice system. I have seen a trend (in my area) of many youth who now say they don’t believe in God or affiliate with any religion which is a change from my experiences. I’m not judging that at all as I am also atheist & believe like you said that morality is not determined simply by religious beliefs or affiliations. However, these kids that I have worked with in the recent past, have no moral code at all b/c they have no role models, decent family, support systems, etc. Now, if they also don’t believe in any kind of high power, then basically it’s a free-for-all. They have no fear or regard for the law or even their own lives.
 
we did not ban cars, but we passed laws to make driving safer. End result 70% reduction in auto deaths. As far as culture and religion and toss in race and politics look at the map, there is no coorelation. If anything the less religuous more ethnically diverse states are safer.
 
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