Was I Being a Germaphobe?

[Allison]

The OP probably wishes they never brought up the topic.

 

[mco65]

To each his own i suppose. i wouldn't have thought much of it but wouldn't look down on anyone who opted out of the public bag of chips either.

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

Was thinking fondly of this thread earlier this morning as I bought a big bag of chips for a sports team celebration tonight! Mmmm, can't wait to dig into them!!

Oh, I will report how many of us come down with E.coli or other illness from the chips.

 

[BadgerGirl84]

The OP probably wishes they never brought up the topic.

Haha, no, I see that it's served as entertainment for many! The only thing I would have changed was to change the title to "Would you eat these chips?" rather than ask if I was being germaphobe for not eating them. I knew this would be a hit on the Dis.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Not really - obviously it probably doesn't hold for this situation. But the facts are still the facts. At least I knew - unlike Pea-n-Me ( is this the nurse?), that E coli can be spread person to person through poor hygiene - not washing your hands after using the bathroom. As I've said many times here: I was merely saying what I would or wouldn't do and why. A few chips just isn't worth the risk, to me.

Earlier in the thread when discussing the ways people contract E. coli, Pea made some comment to the effect of “it just doesn’t happen that way.” Is that the comment you’re getting hung up on? I took it to mean “I’m a nurse who sees E. coli cases and they all come from agricultural exposures, human-to-human transmission is nearly unheard of” and not “E. coli can’t be passed from one person to another.” Because common sense alone tells us that ingestion of the bacteria would put someone at risk of infection no matter the source or vector. You don’t need a nursing degree or the CDC to understand that. I think the point being made was that the odds of one person passing it to another via potato chip are so astronomically low that it’s not even worth considering, not that it’s not theoretically possible.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I have to say that many of you here are impressing me with your understanding of such a complex medical issue and ability to see the big picture! And I mean that sincerely, not being sarcastic at all!

I keep seeing my name being mentioned, so I guess I'll come back to respond, especially to the people I know here who I think are actually pretty interested in a) what it's all about (which is partly why I posted what I did), and b) getting accurate information.

Yes, I am a nurse of over thirty years so I do possess the ability to research and understand lots of complex medial matters, no question. And yes, I am an Ecoli nerd. But my experiences are not as a professional; they are personal. (STEC EColi is so rare, that I don't recall ever having cared for someone with it myself.) When you or someone you love is affected by this, it changes the way you view things, sort of the way something like cancer does. I actually wrote my own "book" about it as a therapeutic response, so I do know a LOT about EColi since I've spent years researching it, and am familiar with MANY of the landmark cases, both locally and nationally.

I refuse to get into a big back and forth any further with a pp, but what was initially said was this:

"Thought some more about this...no, I don't think I would have let the kids have any. Who wants to deal with sick kids? Why chance it over some chips? The main risk would be E.coli, and I don't believe we need to be exposed/build up a resistance to this.

This is the claim that set myself and some other posters out to correct misniformation.

Later, we learned what the pp really meant but it was clear from subsequent posts that there was still not a good grasp of the basic principles of STEC transmission. Continuing to harp on one particular statement and only one particular statement from a website is a good example of cherry picking information when we're reading about these things on the internet without knowledge to really back it up.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

My son had ecoli a few years ago when he was in high school. He was pretty sick.

Ugh! Poor kid! Do you feel comfortable sharing your experience here?

 

[NHdisneylover]

And having the last word seems to be important.

I was thinking that this morning

 

[Pea-n-Me]

An EColi infection hits when you least expect it.

Even hand washing may not prevent its spread if it's present, as illustrated below.

That's the danger of STEC and why it shouldn't be in our food sources.

If microbiologists can't prevent it's spread under controlled circumstances, Joe Shmoe isn't likely to, either.

"Food scientists have registered increasing concern about the virulence of this pathogen since only a few stray cells can make someone sick, and they warn that federal guidance to cook meat thoroughly and to wash up afterward is not sufficient. A test by The Times found that the safe handling instructions are not enough to prevent the bacteria from spreading in the kitchen.

the pathogen is so powerful that her illness could have started with just a few cells left on a counter. “In a warm kitchen, E. coli cells will double every 45 minutes,” said Dr. Mansour Samadpour, a microbiologist who runs IEH Laboratories in Seattle, one of the meat industry’s largest testing firms.

With help from his laboratories, The Times prepared three pounds of ground beef dosed with a strain of E. coli that is nonharmful but acts in many ways like O157:H7. Although the safety instructions on the package were followed, E. coli remained on the cutting board even after it was washed with soap. A towel picked up large amounts of bacteria from the meat.

Dr. James Marsden, a meat safety expert at Kansas State University and senior science adviser for the North American Meat Processors Association, said the Department of Agriculture needed to issue better guidance on avoiding cross-contamination, like urging people to use bleach to sterilize cutting boards. “Even if you are a scientist, much less a housewife with a child, it’s very difficult,” Dr. Marsden said."

And for good measure

“I’ve had women tell me that E. coli is more painful than childbirth,” said Dr. Phillip I. Tarr, a pathogen expert at Washington University in St. Louis."

(Of course, all of this should be taken in context of the entire article.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/04/health/04meat.html

I'll say it again - what is relevant to the OP's scenario is PERSON TO PERSON SPREAD, NOT how a person might ORIGINALLY come in to contact with Ecoli. The CDC clearly states the most common way Ecoli is spread from PERSON TO PERSON is poor hygiene, and that the best way to prevent this is by washing your hands after using the bathroom. I'm really surprised that this is news to so many of you.

Edit: typo

 

[DeniseJH]

Earlier in the thread when discussing the ways people contract E. coli, Pea made some comment to the effect of “it just doesn’t happen that way.” Is that the comment you’re getting hung up on? I took it to mean “I’m a nurse who sees E. coli cases and they all come from agricultural exposures, human-to-human transmission is nearly unheard of” and not “E. coli can’t be passed from one person to another.” Because common sense alone tells us that ingestion of the bacteria would put someone at risk of infection no matter the source or vector. You don’t need a nursing degree or the CDC to understand that. I think the point being made was that the odds of one person passing it to another via potato chip are so astronomically low that it’s not even worth considering, not that it’s not theoretically possible.

What you took it to mean and what she said are two different things. She specifically said that people don't harbor that type of E coli on their hands. That is not true, and something a nurse should know, by the way. When I wouldn't post a link to prove my point to her she replied "Not much to it, eh? Didn't think so." (pg. 10) Are you all sure she's a nurse? Honestly, a nurse should know this stuff. She didn't say the odds are low, she said it can't be spread that way.

 

[luvsJack]

What you took it to mean and what she said are two different things. She specifically said that people don't harbor that type of E coli on their hands. That is not true, and something a nurse should know, by the way. When I wouldn't post a link to prove my point to her she replied "Not much to it, eh? Didn't think so." (pg. 10) Are you all sure she's a nurse? Honestly, a nurse should know this stuff. She didn't say the odds are low, she said it can't be spread that way.

How many times does she have to explain her words and how many other people have to tell you what they understood for you to even stop and think just maybe you assumed wrong.

 

[DeniseJH]

I have to say that many of you here are impressing me with your understanding of such a complex medical issue and ability to see the big picture! And I mean that sincerely, not being sarcastic at all!

I keep seeing my name being mentioned, so I guess I'll come back to respond, especially to the people I know here who I think are actually pretty interested in a) what it's all about (which is partly why I posted what I did), and b) getting accurate information.

Yes, I am a nurse of over thirty years so I do possess the ability to research and understand lots of complex medial matters, no question. And yes, I am an Ecoli nerd. But my experiences are not as a professional; they are personal. (STEC EColi is so rare, that I don't recall ever having cared for someone with it myself.) When you or someone you love is affected by this, it changes the way you view things, sort of the way something like cancer does. I actually wrote my own "book" about it as a therapeutic response, so I do know a LOT about EColi since I've spent years researching it, and am familiar with MANY of the landmark cases, both locally and nationally.

I refuse to get into a big back and forth any further with a pp, but what was initially said was this:

"Thought some more about this...no, I don't think I would have let the kids have any. Who wants to deal with sick kids? Why chance it over some chips? The main risk would be E.coli, and I don't believe we need to be exposed/build up a resistance to this.

This is the claim that set myself and some other posters out to correct misniformation.

Later, we learned what the pp really meant but it was clear from subsequent posts that there was still not a good grasp of the basic principles of STEC transmission. Continuing to harp on one particular statement and only one particular statement from a website is a good example of cherry picking information when we're reading about these things on the internet without knowledge to really back it up.

The reason I said the highlighted was because people were talking about germs that kids should be exposed to to build up a resistance. I chose the wording that I did so as not to come off too harshly. If I had said "You don't have to build up a resistance to E coli " I thought I'd get responses such as "Yeah, no kidding". I was actually trying to be nice, especially as I'm not known here. And that is not the claim that was argued by you. But anyway, I'm glad that you are now aware that E coli can be spread person to person due to bad hygiene.

 

[DeniseJH]

How many times does she have to explain her words and how many other people have to tell you what they understood for you to even stop and think just maybe you assumed wrong.

Until people understand that "People don't harbor that type of E coli on their fingertips", said by a nurse, is outrageous. And no, she hasn't explained that yet - nor why she denied the fact that E coli can be spread in the manner I stated.

 

[DeniseJH]

I was thinking that this morning

What is it that you don't understand about a person responding to others that are calling them out?

 

[DeniseJH]

An EColi infection hits when you least expect it.

Even hand washing may not prevent its spread if it's present, as illustrated below.

That's the danger of STEC and why it shouldn't be in our food sources.

If microbiologists can't prevent it's spread under controlled circumstances, Joe Shmoe isn't likely to, either.

"Food scientists have registered increasing concern about the virulence of this pathogen since only a few stray cells can make someone sick, and they warn that federal guidance to cook meat thoroughly and to wash up afterward is not sufficient. A test by The Times found that the safe handling instructions are not enough to prevent the bacteria from spreading in the kitchen.

the pathogen is so powerful that her illness could have started with just a few cells left on a counter. “In a warm kitchen, E. coli cells will double every 45 minutes,” said Dr. Mansour Samadpour, a microbiologist who runs IEH Laboratories in Seattle, one of the meat industry’s largest testing firms.

With help from his laboratories, The Times prepared three pounds of ground beef dosed with a strain of E. coli that is nonharmful but acts in many ways like O157:H7. Although the safety instructions on the package were followed, E. coli remained on the cutting board even after it was washed with soap. A towel picked up large amounts of bacteria from the meat.

Dr. James Marsden, a meat safety expert at Kansas State University and senior science adviser for the North American Meat Processors Association, said the Department of Agriculture needed to issue better guidance on avoiding cross-contamination, like urging people to use bleach to sterilize cutting boards. “Even if you are a scientist, much less a housewife with a child, it’s very difficult,” Dr. Marsden said."

And for good measure

“I’ve had women tell me that E. coli is more painful than childbirth,” said Dr. Phillip I. Tarr, a pathogen expert at Washington University in St. Louis."

(Of course, all of this should be taken in context of the entire article.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/04/health/04meat.html


Edit: typo

This doesn't negate my argument at all - if that's what you're trying to do. None of what you shared addresses washing your hands after going to the bathroom. Are you really a nurse? Most of what you seem to do here is copy and paste. And it seems to me a registered nurse and self-described "Ecoli nerd" would certainly know that people can indeed harbor the bacteria in question on their hands.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Denise, you should really pick one argument and stick with it. You're all over the place.

 

[DeniseJH]

Denise, you should really pick one argument and stick with it. You're all over the place.

How so? The only thing I've added is my questioning whether or not you are really a nurse. Why is it that you didn't know that the E coli bacteria can, in fact, remain alive on a persons hands and thus cause another to get the bacteria and become ill?

 

[VandVsmama]

Up next on 60 Minutes: Point and Counterpoint - the merits of poo poo chips, or as we in the news room like to call it, "Your children are an E.coli death waiting to happen."

 

[Skywalker]

Because I was told that there was a nurse that I should pay attention to and I'm wondering who that is. And yes, 2 people absolutely did say that.

Well, since you're such a stickler going on and on (and on) about what people actually said on this thread, I did not say that there was a nurse that you should pay attention to. What I said was, I will assume the nurse knows what she's talking about. You can believe what you want. But if my choices are nurse for 30 years vs. worked in a lot of restaurants, I know who I would choose to listen to on this issue.

Your digging in your heels on this is not saving your reputation, its making you comic relief actually.

 

[DeniseJH]

Well, since you're such a stickler going on and on (and on) about what people actually said on this thread, I did not say that there was a nurse that you should pay attention to. What I said was, I will assume the nurse knows what she's talking about. You can believe what you want. But if my choices are nurse for 30 years vs. worked in a lot of restaurants, I know who I would choose to listen to on this issue.

Your digging in your heels on this is not saving your reputation, its making you comic relief actually.

That's what's called a "paraphrase" as I was not relaying a factual matter. And it sure looks like the nurse doesn't know what she's talking about - as backed up by the CDC and every other health/medical site you could look at. Do I care what you think of me? Not at all.