"We Wants the Red-Head..."

CaliMike

Earning My Ears
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Great show today gang.

I love Julie. Love her personality and what she brings to the show. Wish she was on more often. BUT, I respectfully disagree with her comparison of removing the Auction scene in the Pirates of the Caribbean attraction with child sex-trafficking in the U.S. and worldwide for that matter. No doubt it's a very troubling problem. Awful! But so is murder, and arson, and stealing, all of which is reflected in both the attraction and in the movies. Where does the P.C. Crusade end? Like hundreds of thousands of Disney fans, we are tired of this stuff that the leadership of the Disney corporation comes up with.

Love Ryno too, but his example of a girl crying after seeing that particular scene in the attraction maybe true, but have you ever stood at the end of the ride as people are disembarking, and see people crying? Of course not. Sure there will always be the one-millionth of one percent that an occurance such as this happens, but do you change a significant part of the attraction because of that? Pirates of the Caribbean was the very last attraction that Walt Disney himself worked on before he passed away I might add.

It's too much. Just leave things the way they are and people will be fine, including that little girl.

Michael

P.S. Look closely at the red head in the attraction and you will see that she is into it. Kind of like "Come and get it boys..." She is not distressed in the least. Not the same as the sex-trafficing problem.

P.S.S. Good discussion today. But the points I made was not articulated in the podacast so I thought I would add my meager two cents.
 
I don't want to get into a big debate over this as there has already been several thread about this topic but based on being involved on those thread it is definitely more than "one-millionth of one percent" that had an issue with the scene - ranging from those that found it uncomfortable to those that flat out refused to ride the attraction before it

Personally, I (like many of the podcasters conveyed) was bummed when I first hear of it but after thinking it over, while I don't think it *needed* to change, I also don't think it needed to stay to still be Pirates .... and I think there are much more valuable things to get up in arms about and start a petition about (like, I don't know, the monorails falling apart) than making your stand on a scene that, at the end of the day, is showcasing a human auction

but just my
smiley_emoticons_my2cents.gif
 
P.S. Look closely at the red head in the attraction and you will see that she is into it. Kind of like "Come and get it boys..." She is not distressed in the least. Not the same as the sex-trafficing problem.

I don't want to step into this debate, even though I do firmly stand on one side of the debate, as it has been discussed at length on these forums. I just want to caution you to making statements such as this. People use these very words every single day to justify why a victim of sexual violence or trafficking deserved it. And while we are talking about a scene in a ride with animatronics, simply because you portray her as looking as if she is saying "Come and get it boys" does not in any way make it okay that she is auctioned off.
 
You can have the red head as the auctioneer and keep the line of "we wants the redhead" from the drunk pirates. I agree we change so not to offend a few. I don't believe anyone has started selling women because they rode pirates. I could be offended because they sol the fat women by the pound! Fat people unite!
 


I don't want to step into this debate, even though I do firmly stand on one side of the debate, as it has been discussed at length on these forums. I just want to caution you to making statements such as this. People use these very words every single day to justify why a victim of sexual violence or trafficking deserved it. And while we are talking about a scene in a ride with animatronics, simply because you portray her as looking as if she is saying "Come and get it boys" does not in any way make it okay that she is auctioned off.

Thank you for pointing that out and said much better than I could articulate it
 
I hear what you are saying, but I think my point is being missed. The pirates in this wonderful attraction are clearly out of control as they take over this helpless seaside town. Arson (people are getting physically hurt), robbery and general debauchery is occuring. So the few that share their displeasure over the "human auction" are ok with the other misdeeds of the pirates? It's inconsistent. So the question is, where does it end? Would the minority be ok with shutting down the entire ride for good? And no, people that hate human trafficking (such as myself), do not justify this behavior by saying "they like it" or "are they deserve it." I, like so many, are referring to the auction scene in the attraction and the auction scene only. Nothing more. It's just depicting what pirates possibly did, just like much of the entertainment that we consume as a modern society.

I just think we are losing sight of the overall idea of the ride. Its just fun, just like the 5 Pirate movies. No one is promoting or encouraging arson, murder, robbery, public drunkeness or human trafficking because they go on the ride or see the movies. Next PETA will want to shut down the attraction because the dog, cats and pigs are in an unhealthy enviornment. Where does it end?
 
I get what you are saying and, as I mentioned before, I don't think the scene *needed* to say. To be fair though, some of the things you describe you don't see the crimes being committed as explicitly - more the result

I saw this posted as well and it got me thinking - what if the scene was them auctioning off people of color (which Pirates also did in real life)? Would you be ok with the scene then?
 


I don't want to step into this debate, even though I do firmly stand on one side of the debate, as it has been discussed at length on these forums. I just want to caution you to making statements such as this. People use these very words every single day to justify why a victim of sexual violence or trafficking deserved it. And while we are talking about a scene in a ride with animatronics, simply because you portray her as looking as if she is saying "Come and get it boys" does not in any way make it okay that she is auctioned off.
Very well said, and totally agree. OP had me agreeing, UNTIL he put in that "first PS" - for EXACTLY the reasons you stated. As a female, it just "hit me where I live".
 
To answer your question MaxRebo, I wouldn't think anything of it if were a black person, a chinese person, or a norwegian. To be honest it never even crossed my mind. Maybe I should have. It's just all done in fun as Walt intended. Nothing more, nothing less. Otherwise for those that have a problem with this "offensive" auction scene, should stop going to adventureous or dramatic type movies, because there are always injustices in those type of films. Always.

And re my P.S., what i said is spot-on. The redheaded woman appears to be totally into it. There's no denying it. She even got dolled-up for the occassion. Seriously, this is so silly. We overthink things way too much sometimes.

Ok i'm done. Nice bantering with you fellow dis'rs. Headed to D23 this weekend, so I have to get my mind right. :)
 
I think there are many problems with the scene and dialog if you're looking at it from a helicopter-parent, politically correct, point of view (fat-shaming, i.e., "no need to expose your superstructure" and degrading women to wenches, the equivalent to mail-order brides). The paradox here is that this is also the day-and-age where if the same children they're "protecting" have access to an internet connection, they can easily find and view free, adult-themed entertainment (if you know what I mean) which is way worse and damaging to a psyche than these slow-moving animatronics.

I think the hubbub over this is too much. If Disney wants to change something, that's their prerogative. I only get mad when they do things that negatively impact park capacity (i.e., replacing attractions instead of adding them).
 
And re my P.S., what i said is spot-on. The redheaded woman appears to be totally into it. There's no denying it. She even got dolled-up for the occassion. Seriously, this is so silly. We overthink things way too much sometimes.
Okay, this sentence right here is firmly placing me in the debate. As you stated earlier, the ride portrays a coastal town being overrun by pirates, yes? Then the assumption must be that she was already "dolled-up" before she was captured to be auctioned off to the highest bidder. Regardless, there are women currently--in our society--who are forced to get all dolled up every day to go sell themselves for their captors. They also may appear to be totally into it, because they are told that if they don't appear to be they will be beaten, or their families will be harmed. It is never acceptable to say a victim is "totally into it" or asking for it. It doesn't matter if you are only referring to the redhead, as you stated in your first reply, victims of sexual assault ARE told or led to believe every day that they were asking for it, or deserved it, and again, I simply want to caution you to using those phrases.

I also don't think the point is being missed. I agree that Pirates is a great ride, and I don't think anyone agrees with the other misdeeds being portrayed. Yet, considering we live in a society where--by looking at the numbers for women (not to discredit the experiences of men, statistics for women are just more readily available)--recent numbers suggest that nearly 1 in 2 are victims of some sort of sexual violence in their lives, it should be evident in how this scene can be very triggering to some people. And I am not talking about "oh those stupid liberal PC college kids" type triggering that everyone likes to joke about on Facebook. You know how some veterans put signs outside their doors around July 4th asking people to be courteous with the fireworks because they trigger them? The PTSD experienced by some victims of sexual violence can be the same. Not to mention the negative gender stereotypes the scene conveys. I'd rather young girls not be reminded that they are items to be objectified or young boys taught it's funny to objectify women while at the happiest place on earth. This is also the difference between the scenes of theft and arson, etc. we tell our kids every day that it is not okay to steal, or to start fires, or to harm or kill other living things. How often do we tell our children objectification should not be a common theme in our society?

I also think that is why this change is being made. Yes, not everyone will be offended by the scene, or react to it, but this is supposed to be a place that brings everyone joy, so if the ride can be changed to take out some antiquated thought and allow for everyone to have an enjoyable experience, what is the harm? I understand that Walt directly worked on this, but times and attitudes have changed significantly since the 1960's. I would think that had Walt still been alive to see the change in opinions towards women and the epidemic of sex trafficking that we see today, he would have agreed to the necessity for change, just as those who have been entrusted to carry on his legacy in his parks have.
 
To answer your question MaxRebo, I wouldn't think anything of it if were a black person, a chinese person, or a norwegian. To be honest it never even crossed my mind. Maybe I should have. It's just all done in fun as Walt intended. Nothing more, nothing less. Otherwise for those that have a problem with this "offensive" auction scene, should stop going to adventureous or dramatic type movies, because there are always injustices in those type of films. Always.

And re my P.S., what i said is spot-on. The redheaded woman appears to be totally into it. There's no denying it. She even got dolled-up for the occassion. Seriously, this is so silly. We overthink things way too much sometimes.

Ok i'm done. Nice bantering with you fellow dis'rs. Headed to D23 this weekend, so I have to get my mind right. :)

Have a good time at D23
 
Thanks for the caution Aermaia, but I never used those words. Not once. You though keep using them though, so your caution is not received by me since it is the furthest thing from my mind. I see this from a strictly entertainment aspect, not a real-life scenario. I know you see it differently. Obviously this issue is close to your heart which is fine, but having a conversation with you is pointless. Take care.
 
My issue is there is no consistency with what is and isn't appropriate. I mean shouldn't we be offended that a ride implies suicide as a way out. Or another continues to portray Native Americans in a cartoonish manner. Or the fact that the same ride features the likeness of a character who's actually assaulted an actual woman
 
Thanks for the caution Aermaia, but I never used those words. Not once. You though keep using them though, so your caution is not received by me since it is the furthest thing from my mind. I see this from a strictly entertainment aspect, not a real-life scenario. I know you see it differently. Obviously this issue is close to your heart which is fine, but having a conversation with you is pointless. Take care.

So, here's the thing about online forums.

If you put an opinion out there, people are either going to agree or disagree.

That's okay.

What's not okay is to put phrases in quotes to give off a mocking manner.

What's also not okay is telling someone their opinions don't matter because they're not the same as yours.

As for something being pointless, it seems that this thread is getting close to being just that because your words imply people cannot respond in a way that does not share your opinion. I'll keep an extra eye on it then because if that's the case, this thread will be forced to walk the plank.

See what I did there? ;) Enjoy D23.
 
I have always found this scene disturbing and not for the red head - although as a proud red head I'm glad they are changing her to a position of power rather than a thing to be bought - #Gingerpride

I am more disturbed by the woman crying which has always not sat well with me and as I've got older it's got worse. When I was you I think I didn't like it as she was upset so it made me upset now I'm older It makes me upset as I know that, even though this is "Just a Fun Ride", around the world women are living that everyday - everyday people!!!

It's true that other rides in Disney and other scene in POTC portray criminal/bad things like stealing and arson but that argument of if you getting rid of the Auction scene why are you keeping that etc... Doesn't wash as far as I concern, as we all know from History Change happens one step at the time and I totally applaud Disney for doing this.

It has been a long time coming but I think Disney is taking better steps to show amazing positive role modes of Women.

"As I am Kate of London Town, I will board my Pirates of The Caribbean boat, sail through the ride and not be exposed to the objectification of women" :thumbsup2
 
Last edited:
They need to get rid of any device that looks or sounds like a gun...triggering...
Also, the jail cell scene absolutely needs to go because of mass incarceration.
Also, they need more non-white people in there for diversity.
Also, they need to make sure there are equal number of male and female and possibly trans pirates for sake of diversity.
After that, then I will complain even more.
 
They need to get rid of any device that looks or sounds like a gun...triggering...
Also, the jail cell scene absolutely needs to go because of mass incarceration.
Also, they need more non-white people in there for diversity.
Also, they need to make sure there are equal number of male and female and possibly trans pirates for sake of diversity.
After that, then I will complain even more.

This was my thinking and position. We can't give in to every little thing that may offend someone. Then I got older and saw other peoples side. We aren't talking about tearing down the Jefferson memorial because we found out he owned and had children with slaves.

We are talking about a kids ride, one that may have been sacred Walt Disney, but back before Johnny Depp got slapped into every scene.
There is nothing sacred now about this ride, nothing so special that it can not be touched. If they were Africans in chains being sold at auction I am sure this issue would have come up before. So with that being said, why is there resistance to making another change? I'm pretty sure one of Walt's quotes on those inspirational posters is about progress and change.

BTW, I was always offended that no one wanted the chubby girl with black hair.
 

GET A DISNEY VACATION QUOTE

Dreams Unlimited Travel is committed to providing you with the very best vacation planning experience possible. Our Vacation Planners are experts and will share their honest advice to help you have a magical vacation.

Let us help you with your next Disney Vacation!






Top