We're all out there chasing our better selves (FredtheDuck chases on)

My Thursday speed workout was actually a bit longer than it was supposed to be. I got about a third of the way through the ladder and started doing mental math in my head about how much time I had left, and realized I was going to have to cut the run short in order to get to work on time. But that didn't make any sense, because Billy is really good about sticking within a few minutes of my hour-long window. So I went back and checked my schedule, and while the text said to do a mile of warm up and a mile cool down, the numbers (and the total) had only .5 miles for each. That made me feel better, because I had already decided I was going to finish the intervals and cut the cool down short, but I hate not meeting my mileage goals. So it was fun to know I would not only not be short, but I was actually going to end long.

Grr... sorry for the error. Looks like an error on the next ladder as well (0.5 mile WU and CD each is intended).

This week will be a little more challenging scheduling-wise. I'm on a cross-country flight tomorrow, then back on a plane on Saturday afternoon. Hey @DopeyBadger, do you think it would be OK for me to do my speed workout tomorrow morning instead of Thursday? If I'm going to be sitting on a plane for five hours tomorrow, it might be nice to have worn myself out with a run beforehand. Then I don't need to worry about finding flat ground in SF to do it, too.

You should be fine to do the Ladder on Wednesday instead of Thursday. Just listen to your body during the workout.
 
Looks like an error on the next ladder as well (0.5 mile WU and CD each is intended).

Don't apologize! My fault for not paying attention. And also, thanks for confirming about this week's ladder... My eyes only seem to want to focus on that 1600 in the middle (EEEEK!), so I hadn't noticed it.

Just listen to your body during the workout.

I'll do my best!
 


Question for @DopeyBadger that I was going to PM but thought others might get some insight from:

My training plan has several weeks of speed workouts at SPEED pace, which for me is 9:39. Then I start (around week 7) to move to Daniels T pace, which for me is slower, around 10:11. Can you talk to me about the goals/benefits of training at these two paces and why I’m starting with a faster one and moving to a slower one? I’m seeing others on DB plans doing their T workouts but I’m still here in speed land and curious about how each one will improve and impact my running. Thanks!
 
My training plan has several weeks of speed workouts at SPEED pace, which for me is 9:39. Then I start (around week 7) to move to Daniels T pace, which for me is slower, around 10:11. Can you talk to me about the goals/benefits of training at these two paces and why I’m starting with a faster one and moving to a slower one? I’m seeing others on DB plans doing their T workouts but I’m still here in speed land and curious about how each one will improve and impact my running. Thanks!

Great question! So, "Speed" is defined as either 5k or 10k pace. In your case, I went with 5k pace because only 2 hard workouts per week in the beginning. The purpose of speed is non-specific but that it works on the faster end of the pace spectrum. The pace spectrum has several different areas that are physiologically relevant.

Mile Pace = Neurological, Anaerobic, and running economy
3k Pace = VO2max workout. The point at which you maximize oxygen consumption and turnover. This is like improving your speed cap.
LT Pace = Lactate Threshold workout. This is like improving your ability to hold sub-speed cap paces. This comes down to roughly 60 min race pace. The point at which your body will produce more fatigue that it can clear leading to an eventual succumb to fatigue.
Aerobic Threshold = Around Marathon Pace. Improves running economy and ability to maintain sub-LT pace for longer durations.

5k Pace and 10k Pace = Fall between VO2max and LT paced workouts. They are less specific but work in the same general area for the benefits.

So since speed = 5k and LT = 60 min race pace, and you run a 5k faster than 60 min, then your speed will be faster than LT. Not always the case (especially when comparing LT vs 10k times), but that's the general idea.

So, why faster and then slower paces later in the plan? Rule of specificity. Your goal race is a HM. Which means at the beginning of the plan we should focus on paces that are further than what you will require on race day. As race day approaches we hone in on the paces needed for the actual "A" event. Since your plan has enough weeks before the "A" race it allows us to do three mini-cycles (each lasting no less than 3 weeks) within the plan. We have speed, then Daniels T, then HM Tempo. Speed will help make you faster. LT will help you hold that new speed for longer. HM Tempo will help drive home to you mentally what race day will feel like. So at the end of the plan you should have the speed to do it, the ability to hold it, and the mental angle to know what it should feel like from an effort standpoint.

Why are you in speed and they are in Daniels T already? Because your plan is longer than theirs and didn't require a recovery phase (many of the others are coming off Marathon Weekend races). So since yours is longer that allows us to put more stuff in it. Plus, your goal race is further out so we don't want to be as specific at the moment. If we start the more specific paces too soon, you'll maximize the gains from it and then start to stagnate. You've got to keep the stimulus changing every once in a while to keep the body adapting. Therefore more paces = more adapting to new stimuli.

So time between the start of the plan and "A" race dictates how many different paces I can incorporate. More mini-cycles means more improvement. That's also why less racing means more improvement. You race more, then you disrupt the training cycle with either recovery and the ability to add in new paces. From there, it's a matter of choosing what paces to focus on for each person. Several different HM plans in use right now. As an example and not always the case, people who are experienced HM runners are doing (Mile, 3k, Daniels T), the intermediate experienced runners are doing (5k + Daniels T + HM Tempo), the less experienced runners or new to me are doing (10k + HM Tempo). It's all about matching the needs of each individual runner with what will improve them the most given the timeframe they've given me. Most need more endurance work and a few more experienced will benefit from some aggressive speed work.
 
Great question! So, "Speed" is defined as either 5k or 10k pace. In your case, I went with 5k pace because only 2 hard workouts per week in the beginning. The purpose of speed is non-specific but that it works on the faster end of the pace spectrum. The pace spectrum has several different areas that are physiologically relevant.

Mile Pace = Neurological, Anaerobic, and running economy
3k Pace = VO2max workout. The point at which you maximize oxygen consumption and turnover. This is like improving your speed cap.
LT Pace = Lactate Threshold workout. This is like improving your ability to hold sub-speed cap paces. This comes down to roughly 60 min race pace. The point at which your body will produce more fatigue that it can clear leading to an eventual succumb to fatigue.
Aerobic Threshold = Around Marathon Pace. Improves running economy and ability to maintain sub-LT pace for longer durations.

5k Pace and 10k Pace = Fall between VO2max and LT paced workouts. They are less specific but work in the same general area for the benefits.

So since speed = 5k and LT = 60 min race pace, and you run a 5k faster than 60 min, then your speed will be faster than LT. Not always the case (especially when comparing LT vs 10k times), but that's the general idea.

So, why faster and then slower paces later in the plan? Rule of specificity. Your goal race is a HM. Which means at the beginning of the plan we should focus on paces that are further than what you will require on race day. As race day approaches we hone in on the paces needed for the actual "A" event. Since your plan has enough weeks before the "A" race it allows us to do three mini-cycles (each lasting no less than 3 weeks) within the plan. We have speed, then Daniels T, then HM Tempo. Speed will help make you faster. LT will help you hold that new speed for longer. HM Tempo will help drive home to you mentally what race day will feel like. So at the end of the plan you should have the speed to do it, the ability to hold it, and the mental angle to know what it should feel like from an effort standpoint.

Why are you in speed and they are in Daniels T already? Because your plan is longer than theirs and didn't require a recovery phase (many of the others are coming off Marathon Weekend races). So since yours is longer that allows us to put more stuff in it. Plus, your goal race is further out so we don't want to be as specific at the moment. If we start the more specific paces too soon, you'll maximize the gains from it and then start to stagnate. You've got to keep the stimulus changing every once in a while to keep the body adapting. Therefore more paces = more adapting to new stimuli.

So time between the start of the plan and "A" race dictates how many different paces I can incorporate. More mini-cycles means more improvement. That's also why less racing means more improvement. You race more, then you disrupt the training cycle with either recovery and the ability to add in new paces. From there, it's a matter of choosing what paces to focus on for each person. Several different HM plans in use right now. As an example and not always the case, people who are experienced HM runners are doing (Mile, 3k, Daniels T), the intermediate experienced runners are doing (5k + Daniels T + HM Tempo), the less experienced runners or new to me are doing (10k + HM Tempo). It's all about matching the needs of each individual runner with what will improve them the most given the timeframe they've given me. Most need more endurance work and a few more experienced will benefit from some aggressive speed work.

mind-blown.gif


It all makes sense now!
 


Great question! So, "Speed" is defined as either 5k or 10k pace. In your case, I went with 5k pace because only 2 hard workouts per week in the beginning. The purpose of speed is non-specific but that it works on the faster end of the pace spectrum. The pace spectrum has several different areas that are physiologically relevant.

Mile Pace = Neurological, Anaerobic, and running economy
3k Pace = VO2max workout. The point at which you maximize oxygen consumption and turnover. This is like improving your speed cap.
LT Pace = Lactate Threshold workout. This is like improving your ability to hold sub-speed cap paces. This comes down to roughly 60 min race pace. The point at which your body will produce more fatigue that it can clear leading to an eventual succumb to fatigue.
Aerobic Threshold = Around Marathon Pace. Improves running economy and ability to maintain sub-LT pace for longer durations.

5k Pace and 10k Pace = Fall between VO2max and LT paced workouts. They are less specific but work in the same general area for the benefits.

So since speed = 5k and LT = 60 min race pace, and you run a 5k faster than 60 min, then your speed will be faster than LT. Not always the case (especially when comparing LT vs 10k times), but that's the general idea.

So, why faster and then slower paces later in the plan? Rule of specificity. Your goal race is a HM. Which means at the beginning of the plan we should focus on paces that are further than what you will require on race day. As race day approaches we hone in on the paces needed for the actual "A" event. Since your plan has enough weeks before the "A" race it allows us to do three mini-cycles (each lasting no less than 3 weeks) within the plan. We have speed, then Daniels T, then HM Tempo. Speed will help make you faster. LT will help you hold that new speed for longer. HM Tempo will help drive home to you mentally what race day will feel like. So at the end of the plan you should have the speed to do it, the ability to hold it, and the mental angle to know what it should feel like from an effort standpoint.

Why are you in speed and they are in Daniels T already? Because your plan is longer than theirs and didn't require a recovery phase (many of the others are coming off Marathon Weekend races). So since yours is longer that allows us to put more stuff in it. Plus, your goal race is further out so we don't want to be as specific at the moment. If we start the more specific paces too soon, you'll maximize the gains from it and then start to stagnate. You've got to keep the stimulus changing every once in a while to keep the body adapting. Therefore more paces = more adapting to new stimuli.

So time between the start of the plan and "A" race dictates how many different paces I can incorporate. More mini-cycles means more improvement. That's also why less racing means more improvement. You race more, then you disrupt the training cycle with either recovery and the ability to add in new paces. From there, it's a matter of choosing what paces to focus on for each person. Several different HM plans in use right now. As an example and not always the case, people who are experienced HM runners are doing (Mile, 3k, Daniels T), the intermediate experienced runners are doing (5k + Daniels T + HM Tempo), the less experienced runners or new to me are doing (10k + HM Tempo). It's all about matching the needs of each individual runner with what will improve them the most given the timeframe they've given me. Most need more endurance work and a few more experienced will benefit from some aggressive speed work.

Thanks Billy! This really helps put these speed runs in context. I read it right before my ladder today (successful, btw, though that mile in the middle was a [manageable] challenge), and the extra context was a nice boost when I might normally have been in a more timid/nervous mental space.
 
Question for @DopeyBadger that I was going to PM but thought others might get some insight from:

My training plan has several weeks of speed workouts at SPEED pace, which for me is 9:39. Then I start (around week 7) to move to Daniels T pace, which for me is slower, around 10:11. Can you talk to me about the goals/benefits of training at these two paces and why I’m starting with a faster one and moving to a slower one? I’m seeing others on DB plans doing their T workouts but I’m still here in speed land and curious about how each one will improve and impact my running. Thanks!

mind-blown.gif


It all makes sense now!

If you haven't already, then check out this thread where I go into more detail about training plan design.

Link
 
Thanks Billy! This really helps put these speed runs in context. I read it right before my ladder today (successful, btw, though that mile in the middle was a [manageable] challenge), and the extra context was a nice boost when I might normally have been in a more timid/nervous mental space.

That's exactly the goal - manageable challenge. The goal of the training is to walk the line between accomplishable and impossible. My goal in design is to find that perfect spot for each individual.
 
Monday Tuesday Training Update (Week 5): Week Ending 2/18

M - 3 @ EA
Tu - 4.5 @ EB + strides
Th - .5 @ WU, LADDER (400, 800, 1600, 800, 400) w/ .25 mi RI @ WU, .5 @ CD (completed Wednesday)
F - 5 @ EB + strides
S - 7 @ LR (supposed to be blind)

I did a bit of schedule juggling because I flew to SF on Wednesday to surprise my mom for her birthday. That meant that I ran my Monday and Tuesday runs as scheduled (and uneventfully), then pushed my ladder to Wednesday and took Thursday off. I did my 5 on the streets in SF (more in a second). My 7 had to get cut to a little shy of 4 because I had a plane to catch and my mom wanted my help getting fitted for her own walking/running shoes before I left.

Despite the cut short LR, I'm pretty proud of this week. I've come to really value my Monday EA runs (Coach told me in my very first plan that I would, but it took switching to five days/week to really get it). It was a treadmill run, and uneventful. Same with Tuesday.

Wednesday's speed run was definitely daunting. I've run that fast before in races, but never that much in training. I was working from home that day because I was cutting out early to head to the airport, and we had just had a roofing contractor come in to confirm what we already knew (but still didn't want to hear): we need a new roof. Bye bye, dollars... the idea of you was nice. Anyways, between that and some other family stuff (ailing grandparent back in California), it's been stressful, so the run was needed. It was tough. And in my house, it's always the toughest part of the run that someone decides they need to come talk to me about something inane when I really want to be focused and in the zone. This time, it was my dad coming out to tell me about his grocery list. Right in the middle of my 1600. Anyways, I got through it and the rest of the run. Sitting on the very long cross-country flight later that night, I was really glad I had decided to move my run up and get it done that morning. It made sitting for six hours much more tolerable.

My Friday run was by far one of my favorite runs ever. My mom lives about a quarter of a mile from AT&T Park in San Francisco (where the SF Giants play). The Giants are my team (though I do love the Nats, too), and I love the ballpark. It's right on the water and it's just gorgeous. So I ran down there, ran by the park, ran through McCovey Cove, and then continued along the waterfront. I hit the halfway point and was genuinely sad that it was time to turn around. Ran back up, along the marina, around the ball park, and back up to her apartment. I ended up going a little long. And I went WAY too fast for my scheduled pace. But the run felt nice and easy (not sure if it was the air, the elevation, or just that I was so happy to be out on that run), so I'm not sweating the overrun too much.

Here are a couple of gorgeous shots from that run:

upload_2018-2-20_9-8-52.pngupload_2018-2-20_9-9-16.png

Saturday, I did the same route past the ballpark. Some headwind that time, which made it a tougher run. And @MoanasPapa called me in the middle of the run because my kiddo, who was sick and had to be taken to urgent care on Friday (cue the mom guilt: I was across the country), was asking for me. (She's ok: ear infection and bronchiolitis. Already doing better and back to daycare today.) I also had to cut this run short because I needed to get back and shower so that I could take my mom to Fleet Feet to help her get fitted for a good pair of shoes. I was sad to cut it short since I love the route, but it was the right call. And I have plenty of time in the training plan left, so I don't think the loss of a few miles is going to derail me. I did do this one blind and was too fast by over a full minute. I need to get outside more, my internal pacing is way off.

This week is supposed to be nice. I got to run outside yesterday. I anticipated some stomach trouble this AM so I did the treadmill. Speed workout on Thursday will depend on the rain, but will hopefully be outside. We'll see from there. One thing I'll say is that I'm tired. Five days a week of running has made a big difference in terms of my overall fatigue. It isn't insurmountable, but it's definitely noticeable. I've got an off-day tomorrow and will be happy to rest.
 
Beautiful pictures and sounds like a great training week!! Sorry to hear about the new roof. Ouch! You are doing great on your training though.
 
I was just catching up on @roxymama's journal and I forgot to mention my own AND THEN moment here! We're going back to WDW, officially! I booked the hotel and got our park hopper tickets over the weekend. We'll go in November, just before our kiddo turns three. We're staying at the Dolphin on points, and our airfare is going to end up covered by vouchers from our terrible experience trying to get down to Belize, plus some miles I still have sitting with the same airline. So we're out the cost of tickets (yay tax refund), and the cost to get from MCO to the hotel (and back), plus food and all that jazz. We feel a little weird not staying on at a resort (our one other visit was at The Contemporary... hard to beat), but the location of Swolphin looks ideal, and it's tough to beat free.

Beautiful pictures and sounds like a great training week!! Sorry to hear about the new roof. Ouch! You are doing great on your training though.

Thank you! Roof was a tough pill. But it got a little easier to swallow once we realized it didn't jeapordize the AND THEN mentioned above (yay points and a roofing estimate that came in lower than expected).

Keep up the great work! You're making great progress and you'll be really happy at the finish line in a few months.

Thank you! I think getting back to outdoor running will help me feel that progress a little more acutely. And honestly, the fact that I can even finish a half marathon makes me happy, given where I was this time last year. So a strong finish is a some fabulous icing on that cake.

Beautiful pictures- what a great place to run! Glad you got to spend some time with your mom and that your kiddo is feeling better!

Thank you! Such a fun place to run... I told my mom when I got back that I would run ALL THE TIME if I had that route. She told me that in her opinion, I do run all the time. It was great to see her and celebrate her. Glad kiddo is feeling better, too... we were worried about flu.
 
Beautiful pictures! I keep saying I want to get back to SF and run along that area (my one very short trip to SF was long before I started running).

Yay for booking your WDW trip! The location of Swolphin is great - walk (depending on how far you're willing to walk) or boat to DHS and Epcot. And the Dolphin is beautiful (at least what I've seen of it, which is pretty much the lobby, is beautiful). Exciting stuff!
 
Joining in!

We did the Swan last year and the dolphin this year on points and really enjoyed both hotels. The price can’t be beat and the walkability to Epcot - esp in the evening with little ones in a stroller (sleeping) -
Is our new favorite resort location.
 
What a great route. I just saw Giants stadium on the Amazing Race last week and though it was nice time my first thought was 'that looks like a nice place to run' glad to hear my thoughts were confirmed.

I like the resorts in that area and while I've never stayed at Swolphin I feel you can't beat the location.
 

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