What is the best surge protector out there?

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Basic electrical knowledge says grounding to water pipes is bad - and a code violation. In Iraq, a soldier was killed in the shower because someone grounded to water pipes.

One who made many erroneous denials also did not know why water pipes are not safe grounds.

For surge protection, an earth ground must both meet and exceed code requirements.

Uh - no. I only said that that was was a typical recommendation, as in used to be. I looked up the code requirements in California, or at least one county that mentions it by reference to the California Electrical Code. That recommends (for modifications but not new contruction) that if the water pipes are used to ground, that a supplemental electrode be used.

http://www.cccounty.us/DocumentCenter/View/44642/RESIDENTIAL-GROUNDING-AND-BONDING

BUILDING INSPECTION MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS

Any work involving adding sub-panels, upgrade of electrical service, change of water service (if using a less conductive material than is existing), re-piping of a structure, or adding circuits (if no grounding system exists) will require upgrading of the grounding and bonding of the electrical service. A permit is required for each of these upgrades/remodels. Following are general grounding and bonding requirements based on the 2016 California Electrical Code. Please contact the Building Inspection Division for any questions or additional information.

Grounding

Grounding shall consist of a continuous grounding electrode conductor run from the panel to a grounding electrode. Grounding of the electrical service at the main water line must be within the first 5’ of water piping into the building. The underground water service shall not be used as the grounding electrode without a supplemental electrode. 2 grounding rods may be used as a grounding electrode system. (CEC 250.52 (A) (1) and 250.53, 250.68)

For new structures and additions to existing structures, a concrete encased ground electrode shall be installed. This shall consist of 20’ of 1⁄2" bare or zinc-coated rebar or bare copper wire in the portion of the footing in contact with earth. (CEC 250.52)

For existing structures, the grounding electrode shall be nonferrous (copper), listed, and not be less than 5/8" in diameter. The electrode shall be installed such that at least 8’ of length is in contract with the soil. The upper end of the electrode shall be flush with or below ground level unless the above-ground end and the grounding electrode conductor attachment is protected against physical damage. (CEC 250.52 (A)(5), 250.64(B))
 
So I will admit to not reading most of this. Is westom implying that there are no such thing as surges? Or that surge protectors don't do anything?

A one sentence answer would be appreciated.

Apparently.


Answered in ONE word. Great Lakes for the win! :thumbsup2 Some members should take a lesson in how to be so succinct. ;)
 
but I'm not one to boast about all the knowledge I, or those I know possess.

Most likely:
4) Sells whole home systems?
5) Failing miserably at getting us all to see the light.

I was thinking someone who gets their self-esteem from strangers on the Internet. :( Then becomes increasingly hostile in his adjectives & language when others don't agree with him or see things his way.
 
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I looked up the code requirements in California, or at least one county that mentions it by reference to the California Electrical Code. That recommends (for modifications but not new contruction) that if the water pipes are used to ground, that a supplemental electrode be used.
Wonderful. You are now asking questions to learn. Yes, that is what code says. Now add other facts that may not be known. Bonds (connecting electricity to ground) on any pipe is a major code violation. Bonding (notice the different verb with an exact same spelling) must occur within inches of where a water pipe enters a building.

As stated repeatedly: code only defines what is necessary to protect humans. It says nothing about protecting appliances. We are now discussing how to upgrade those requirements to also protect appliances.

Another electrical concept applies. Electricity is never same at two ends of a wire. Critical is where that breaker box safety ground connects to a water pipe. To remove electricity from that pipe BEFORE electricity can enter a building.

The many who did not learn relevant details may assume an appliance can connect to water pipes anywhere inside - because so many assume electricity is same at both ends of a copper pipe or wire.

Well, yes. That was once relevant when all pipes were copper, when human life was expendable, when a plumber's life was not so relevant, and when electricity was only near DC (60 Hz - or back then 60 cycles per second).

Since then, transistors were invented. A water pipe in earth is the only electrode that is insufficient. Code lists many other electrodes that must exist. And only to protect humans. To protect appliances, that earthing must even be better. Again, a well understood electrical parameter is called impedance. When a surge must not do damage, then impedance to earth means that connection to an earth ground electrode must, for example, be less than 10 feet, have no sharp wire bends, have no splices, not be inside metallic conduit, be separated from other non-grounding wires. and not be inside metallic conduit. Ineffective power strip or UPS protectors refuse to discuss any of this to protect profit margins.

Code for human safety says nothing about those requirements. Human safety needs not what is required to protect appliances. Protection of appliances is why facilities that cannot have damage always do that - and more.

Most homeowners can accomplish same with only two ten foot earth ground rods, all incoming wires entering within feet of those electrodes, and every wire connected low impedance to that single point earth ground - either directly or via a protector. That expression means all four words have electrical significant.

Notice how much strain is put on the brain. And how little work and expense is needed to implement solutions. If gets more expensive when one does not use the brain long before even footings are poured. That increased costs directly traceable to humans who fail to learn simple concepts (demonstrated by Franklin 250 years ago and) well understood over 100 years ago.

Some case studies demonstrate same concepts that make direct lightning strikes irrelevant to every home - for less than $1 per protected appliance. But again, that means learning well proven science and unlearning what most everyone has been brainwashed by advertising, hearsay. propaganda, and wild speculation.

To learn, two case studies demonstrate what any (layman) homeowner would know to have best protection for about $1 per appliance:
http://www.copper.org/applications/electrical/pq/casestudy/nebraska.html \
http://www.psihq.com/AllCopper.htm

Obviously, any recommendation of one or two paragraphs is typically a scam - a lie. Reality always requires plenty of paragraphs with always required numbers. That applies to everything in life from pension funds to Saddam's WMDs.

EVerything here is layman simple - only requires high school science.

Anyone who thinks anything can be answered in one sentence want to be lied to and wants to be scammed.
 
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Wonderful. You are now asking questions to learn. Yes, that is what code says. Now add other factis that may not be known. Bonds (connecting electricity to ground) on any pipe is a major code violation. Bonding (notice the different verb with an exact same spelling) must occur within inches of where a water pipe enters a building.

Another electrical concept applies. Electricity is never same at two ends of a wire. Critical is where that breaker box safety ground connects to a water pipe. To remove electricity from that pipe BEFORE electricity can enter a building.

The many who did not learn relevant details may assume an appliance can connect to water pipes anywhere inside - because so many assume electricity is same at both ends of a copper pipe or wire.

Well, yes. That was once relevant when all pipes were copper, when human life was expendable, when a plumber's life was not so relevant, and when electricity was only near DC (60 Hz - or back then 60 cycles per second).

Since then, transistors were invented. A water pipe in earth is the only electrode that is insufficient. Code lists many other electrodes that must exist. And only to protect humans. To protect appliances, that earthing must even be better. Again, a well understood electrical parameter is called impedance. When a surge must not do damage, then impedance to earth means that connection to an earth ground electrode must, for example, be less than 10 feet, have no sharp wire bends, have no splices, not be inside metallic conduit, be separated from other non-grounding wires. and not be inside metallic conduit. Ineffective power strip or UPS protectors refuse to discuss any of this to protect profit margins.

Code for human safety says nothing about those requirements. Human safety needs not what is required to protect appliances. Protection of appliances is why facilities that cannot have damage always do that - and more.

Most homeowners can accomplish same with only two ten foot earth ground rods, all incoming wires entering within feet of those electrodes, and every wire connected low impedance to that single point earth ground - either directly or via a protector. That expression means all four words have electrical significant.

Notice how much strain is put on the brain. And how little work and expense is needed to implement solutions. If gets more expensive when one does not use the brain long before even footings are poured. That increased costs directly traceable to humans who fail to learn simple concepts (demonstrated by Franklin 250 years ago and) well understood over 100 years ago.

Some case studies demonstrate same concepts that make direct lightning strikes irrelevant to every home - for less than $1 per protected appliance. But again, that means learning well proven science and unlearning what most everyone has been brainwashed by advertising, hearsay. propaganda, and wild speculation.

To learn, two case studies demonstrate what any (layman) homeowner would know to have best protection for about $1 per appliance:
http://www.copper.org/applications/electrical/pq/casestudy/nebraska.html \
http://www.psihq.com/AllCopper.htm

Obviously, any recommendation of one or two paragraphs is typically a scam - a lie. Reality always requires plenty of paragraphs with always required numbers. That applies to everything in life from pension funds to Saddam's WMDs.

EVerything here is layman simple - only requires high school science.

I read your first paragraph and skipped the rest.

Have always been this obnoxious?
 
Obviously, any recommendation of one or two paragraphs is typically a scam - a lie. Reality always requires plenty of paragraphs with always required numbers. That applies to everything in life from pension funds to Saddam's WMDs.
Actually, the ability to cut to the chase and explain issues succinctly and correctly is generally admired and wanted.

According to the case studies you posted, a properly grounded system all but eliminates issues from lightning strikes. Just because a system met code at installation time doesn't mean it hasn't deteriorated and is not offering proper protection now. So there, one sentence summarizing a position... have a properly grounded system to eliminate or reduce issues from lightning strikes.

But what you apparently ignored in the case study you posted was this little nugget:
A high-capacity transient voltage surge suppressor (TVSS) was installed at the main electrical panel, thus providing better protection against voltage spikes from the utility grid.
So this company ALSO installed a surge suppressor (which also requires a good ground system) to protect against voltage spikes. Which, I'd like to point out, was the question the OP asked about... not protecting against lighting, but surges coming from the power company.

So, to summarize... make sure your system is properly grounded AND get a whole home surge suppressor.
 
It is way back on the first page but how this thread has gone it bears repeating.

My power company will install a whole home surge protector and then warranty all electrical items for $9.95 a month.

https://www.georgiapower.com/surgeprotection

Perhaps your electrical company offers something similar?

If not Home Depot sells whole home surge protectors.

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Power-Distribution-Whole-House-Surge-Protectors/N-5yc1vZbm05

And you could self install or you could contact a local electrician.

Based on the Home Depot prices vs Georgia Power charging $9.95 a month, I would estimate an electrician would charge in the $500-$750 range and it would be cheaper to pay for installation after 5-7 years vs Georgia Power.
 


According to the case studies you posted, a properly grounded system all but eliminates issues from lightning strikes. Just because a system met code at installation time doesn't mean it hasn't deteriorated and is not offering proper protection now. So there, one sentence summarizing a position... .
That paragraph does not tell anyone what to do. Anything that does not also say why and with numbers is wasted bandwidth. Does not matter how accurate it is. If reasons why and numbers are not provided, then it must be treated as if propaganda promoted by extremists.

That principle applies to everything in life. Those articles spend many pages describing what is required with numbers. It also could not be explained by a soundbyte. Your summary says nothing useful. Only says you agree with facts that require many pages and numbers.

I did not much see this in my parents generation, in my generation, and in the following generation. But so many in this new generation, educated only by video games, do not want those reasons why. And does not understand why facts with numbers are so essential for everything. I do not know if video games (while not learning how to even use tools such as screw drivers or building things from scratch) explain it. But it is scary when one only wants to be ordered what to think.by a soundbyte. That is what you are asking for and have demonstrated by example: knowledge only from a soundbyte. And no numbers.
 
kdonnel has demonstrated examples of what is required to have any effective protection. He did not waste bandwidth posting emotional denials. Products from Home Depot or Georgia Power provide best protection even from direct lightning strikes. But only if (and he did not discuss this) connected low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to single point earth ground.

What is required to have effective earthing could (and should) be discussed. Other facts (such as the 'primary' protection layer) is also relevant to every homeowner. But going beyond the general (and well proven) concepts is almost impossible with so many emotionally inspired denials and cheapshots from the naysayers here. Those naysayers never once suggest anything useful. And only post denials and accusations imbedded in emotional expressions.

Good to see a few such as kdonnel would rather learn from science and experience that is over 100 years old. That is based in what Ben Franklin demonstrated over 250 years ago.

Hardware protection always answers this question. Where are hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly absorbed. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

What requires most attention? Earth ground. Plenty to discuss if only others state they want to learn. Especially since surges that come from the AC utility (created by linemen errors, utility switching, stray cars. and tree rodents) also include lightning. (Some of those other surges have more energy than lighting.) It is all so much more than just sticking a copper clad rod in earth.
 
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That paragraph does not tell anyone what to do. Anything that does not also say why and with numbers is wasted bandwidth. Does not matter how accurate it is. If reasons why and numbers are not provided, then it must be treated as if propaganda promoted by extremists.
So NUMBERS are required or it's wasted bandwidth? Funny, in this post I quoted of you, you don't have any numbers.
In your many diatribes on this subject, you have not told anyone what to do, at least not in a way that anyone understands.

That principle applies to everything in life. Those articles spend many pages describing what is required with numbers. It also could not be explained by a soundbyte. Your summary says nothing useful. Only says you agree with facts that require many pages and numbers.
So saying "having a properly grounded system" says nothing useful? Again, know your audience. Please quote where in one of your many posts that you said that. Not hinted at it, not insulted someone, and not claiming "it costs $1/appliance".

I did not much see this in my parents generation, in my generation, and in the following generation. But so many in this new generation, educated only by video games, do not want those reasons why. And does not understand why facts with numbers are so essential for everything. I do not know if video games (while not learning how to even use tools such as screw drivers or building things from scratch) explain it. But it is scary when one only wants to be ordered what to think.by a soundbyte. That is what you are asking for and have demonstrated by example: knowledge only from a soundbyte. And no numbers.
123456. There. I have included some numbers. Does that mean it's valid now? According to you, no numbers is bad, which means having numbers is good.

Why am I even trying? Have a good life, and I'll go to Lowe's (since you don't like Home Depot) and pick up a power strip. :)
 
So saying "having a properly grounded system" says nothing useful? ... Please quote where in one of your many posts that you said that. :)
So you only read what you want to see. That inability to read more than a 1st paragraph dominates many who then post their emotions here. Some openly admit they will not read and know it is wrong.

Cited repeatedly was what works. The effective solution was even defined with numbers - ie 50,000 amps. Many with poor reading skills want to see a particular magic box with a name - as if only that is a recommendation. Others who can read saw the 50,000 amps number and then find the 100 products that are recommended by what only matters - specification numbers. I believe the relevant number was in a very first post - and ignored.

At what point is reality finally learned? A surge is not a low voltage as some foolishly stated. And then recommended a UPS. A surge creates a voltage approaching or exceeding 1000 volts. Why is that number ignored? When reading emotionally, one does not see perspective. Everything is only in 'black and white'.

What does any effective protection do? Where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate? One can only be scammed; believes a thousand joule power strip will protect from any surge. The informed go to Home Depot or Lowes to obtain what is effective - which is not a power strip. But even I would sell a power strip protector to one who wants to be scammed. Because of another number.

Take a $3 power strip. Add some 5 cent protectors parts. Sell it to consumers who ignore all numbers for $25 or $90. That electrically similar power strip sells for obscene profits even in Walmart for $10. I am happy to profit from consumers who are emotional; who want to be scammed. But again, more perspective. The naive assue something must be better because it is more expensive.

You did not see the expression 'single point earth ground'? How many times was that number posted - and you never saw it? How many times did you intentionally ignore that number to protect a belief only from propaganda (ie wirecutter.com)?

Did you not see what defines an effective earth ground? It harmlessly absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules. Why is that discussion ignored. Why does a naysayer not even ask to learn more about that - the art of protection? Because the emotional only want to argue; do not ask to learn.

How many joules does a near zero protector claim to absorb? Ignored was a hundreds of thousand joule number that says a plug-in protector does not protect from any potentially destructive surge.

How long must a protector remains functional? More numbers. Many decades and after many direct lightning strikes.

What is a typical lightning strike? 20,000 amps. Why was that number ignored? Emotion causes a comprehension blindness.

Many manufacturers known for integrity were provided with so many numbers:
Informed consumers properly earth products from other companies well know by any guy for integrity. Including Intermatic, Square D, Ditek, Siemens, Polyphaser (an industry benchmark), Syscom, Leviton, ABB, Delta, Erico, and Cutler-Hammer (Eaton). Each has a dedicated wire for what does all protection - single point earth ground. All come with numbers that define protection even from direct lightning strikes without failure. Since effective protector must remains functional after many surges even many decades later. However, most are educated by hearsay and wild speculation such as wirecutter.com. Scams even claim a tiny 2000 joules protector will magically absorb hundreds of thousands of joules.

What is necessary to upgrade earth ground? That could be discussed. But so many only post attacks based in what they ignored - did not read. Therefore never ask to learn how scams such as wirecutter.com and cnet.com entrench lies and misinformation.

When did you once ask to learn? bcla has only posted personal attacks using words such as obnoxious. He demonstrates the inability of many here to learn - because propaganda has entrenched a conclusion.

How many times were numbers posted and sam_gordon never saw any? That is the point. So many do not want to learn how easily the scammers (ie wirecutter.com, cnet.com) have so successfully brainwashed.

A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Each layer of protection is only defined by what absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules - earth ground. No plug-in protector has any spec numbers that claim protection. No plug-i protectors has the so essential earth ground connection. Only a properly earthed 'whole house' protector with a low impedance (ie less that 10 foot) - another number that was ignored - connection to earth ground is effective. Even that number clearly defines 'properly grounded'.

Is it easier to grasp if it is 'less than 3 meters'? A properly earth grounded system that is not found in many 'grounded systems'; that only meets human safety codes. Numbers define a major difference. When numbers are ignored, then one has no idea what 'properly grounded' means.

Only discussed is the 'secondary' protection layer. Not yet discussed are numbers for and what is the 'primary' protection layer. 'Properly grounded' also applies here. Does not matter. No matter how many facts from science (with numbers) are posted, one then says:
in this post I quoted of you, you don't have any numbers.
Wow. He found one paragraph that did not have numbers. That proves no numbers were posted?

Best protection costs about $1 per protected appliance. Number was explained repeatedly. If anything needs protection, then everything needs that protection. The one 'whole house' solution therefore costs about $1 per protected appliance. Since '*everything*' includes
how many clocks, dishwashers, GFCIs, refrigerators, LED & CFL bulbs, furnaces, clock radios, TVs, and smoke detectors (less robust appliances) have been surge damaged this month?
and
If anything needs protection, then everything (dishwasher, clocks, furnace, GFCI, refrigerator, recharging electronics, TV, garage door opener, dimmer switches, door bell, central air, clock radios, smoke detectors) everything needs that protection.
and
IOW how many dishwashers, clocks, furnaces, TVs, refrigerators, GFCIs, and smoke detectors were replaced due to surge damage?
Best protection was cited repeatedly. But only seen by the few who read to learn, who do not ignore numbers, and who do not read to attack. kdonnel and a few others did read to comprehend and thanked for best protection .... that only costs $1 per protected appliance. With the always required low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection to *single* point earth ground.

Anyone who wants to be scammed would spend massive suns on a plug-in protector; with contempt. And will even deny this problem (no numbers are in that picture): https://i.redd.it/e34962ah06q11.jpg

Amazing how many only hear what their emotions want them to believe. Only attacked rather than ask for clarification. Amazing how one never saw the so many numbers. And cannot admit that subjective propaganda is how lies and scams get promoted.

A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. But even that is too difficult when eyes have glazed over. And when some post only to attack - not to learn.
 
A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. But even that is too difficult when eyes have glazed over. And when some post only to attack - not to learn.

Untrue. Small surges can be absorbed through metal-oxide varistors even without a proper ground. It will need a proper ground if it exceeds a certain amount of energy, but it would still be partially effective.

But in the end nobody wants to go through what you're saying because you've been extremely rude/condescending and have been repeatedly told so. Most people would have gotten the message and stopped posting at that point. Know it alls are one thing (I know I've been accused of such) but I'm frankly surprised that the moderators haven't locked this topic yet because it's rather pointless to continue.
 
8a16ebf54917c3db3eb06dda9f832421.jpg
 
Small surges can be absorbed through metal-oxide varistors even without a proper ground. It will need a proper ground if it exceeds a certain amount of energy, but it would still be partially effective.

So let's cite those numbers (that you never post). How many joules does that plug-in protector claim to 'absorb'? Why does your every post (that include cheapshots directed at me) never once post numbers? That plug-in protector claims to 'absorb' hundreds or thousand joules. A surge that tiny is ourintely converted by all electronics into rock stable, low DC voltages to safety power semiconductors.

How many joules does a UPS claim to 'absorb'? Again, any adult can read and post those numbers. Hundreds. Tinier. Near zero. So tiny that if any smaller, it would have to be zero.

Where is protection? Already inside appliances. What does that tiny joule protector do. If it fails on a surge too tiny to damage any household appliance, then junk science concludes, "My protector sacrificed itself to save my computer."

Effective protection always answers this question. Where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate? Why does an informed poster keep posting those numbers? And you keep posting emotionally based cheapshots in reply?

A few here, who wanted to learn, know that effective protection connects 50,000 amps harmlessly (low impedance - ie less than 10 feet) to single point earth ground. Then hundreds of thousands of joules are never inside. Then every household appliance is protected - at ab0ut $1 per protected appliance.

This is how it was always done (even over 100 years ago) in facilities that cannot have damage. Nothing new here. None of this has been challenged by a single responsible citation - that says why with numbers. Superior solutions come from a long list of other companies that any guy knows for their integrity.

So why so many denials and cheapshot attacks? That will be explained from another source based in science.

Meanwhile ineffective protectors must 'absorb' more energy. The fewer and informed properly earth a 'whole house' solution. Less energy 'absorbed' by that protector means even better protection. It contracts a popular myth (also called hearsay) that "small surges can be absorbed through metal-oxide varistors". Small surges destroy ineffective (near zero joule) protectors. Effective and properly earthed 'whole house' protection mean hundreds of thousands of joules are harmlessly absorbed outside ... so that all appliances (and that near zero joule protector) are protected.
 
The Economist Magazine reports on a study that explains why many will post one sentence denials while ignoring reams of facts and numbers proven and demonstrated repeatedly for over 100 years. Even get angry because reality requires paragraphs - can not be found in soundbyte replies.

In research, given specification numbers for something they never knew anything about (skin cream), most everyone properly reached a numerically justified conclusion.

When same numbers were provided for a completely different topic that they already had an opinion on, almost sixty percent ignored numbers and only made a conclusion from their emotions.

The Economist said
Almost two-thirds (on both sides) gave up the chance of winning a little extra [cash] to avoid being exposed to the other point of view. People look for, remember, and in this case are willing to forgo money for information that confirms their pre-existing beliefs.
We engineers even traced a massive surge by replacing every damaged semiconductor. Computers, network equipment, and modem all restored to service - and did not fail again. (It exposed another myth that lightning damaged hardware cannot be easily repaired). Plug-in protectors earthed that surge destructively through powered off electronics. We learn facts before making conclusions. Even submit them to design reviews.

Then people who deal with reality (not emotions, hearsay, wild speculation, and cheapshots) fixed their mistake; properly earthed 'whole house' protection. Having learned, the hard way, that plug-in protectors do not even claim effective protection.

Numbers do not lie. Pre-existing and intransigent conclusions do lie. Those have also justified many personal insults.

A protector is only as effective as its connection to and quality of its earth ground. Protector never does protection. Portector (with sp;ec numbers that define what is effective) either earth a surge harmlessly outside. Or can make appliance damage easier by earthing a surge destructively through appliances. If grossly undersized, then this happens: https://imgur.com/hwCWHMW

Even that picture contracts so many pre-existing beliefs repeatedly posted here - without one fact or number that justified those beliefs.
 
Amazing how Floridaman999 again wastes bandwidth. Since he has nothing honest to contribute to "What is the best surge protector out there?", then he resorts to another 'off topic' cheapshot. He could learn from over 100 years of well proven science. But that means he must confront his pre-existing beliefs. Posting a cheapshot is emotionally easier.

Nothing replaces well proven science. What is the best protector out there? One that makes a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to single point earth ground. And that is rated at least 50,000 amps. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

He never once even asked what constitutes a sufficient earth ground. That question would mean he wants to learn.
 
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