What is the current 2042 status on existing points?

[The Jackal]

In order to sell, the current owner would have to sign the quit claim, so buying a resale contract you would get a deed without the extension.


They would probably want to convert as many 2042 contracts as possible to 2057, in order to have fewer points back in 2042, which complicates the resort management. Currently only 20% of the contracts are extended.

I believe there were 20% that opted for the extension when offered and another 6% has been sold by DVC with the 2057 date. A little over 1/4 of all the points are good till 2057. I’m not sure there is any way to figure out how many people signed the quit claim when it was sent to them or when they resold their points. By the time 2057 rolls around my guess a lot more will be extended to 2057.

 

[Frederic Civish]

In order to sell, the current owner would have to sign the quit claim, so buying a resale contract you would get a deed without the extension.

So, I understand that the owners who did NOT extend and did NOT sign the quit claim deed must do so before selling their 2042 contracts. So any purchasers of those will have no recourse with Disney about 'unpaid for extensions.' BUT, you often can get an Extended OKW Contract for very close to the price of an unextended contract, if you look around.

The fact that Disney requires sellers, who didn't extend, to sign the Quit Claim Deed seems to indicate that those who HAVE NOT signed the Quit Claim Deed just might possibly have some recourse when 2042 rolls around.

 

[jkips]

OKW used to expire in 2042 because the lease for the land expired in 2042 (like the other initial resorts). DVC decided to do the extension extending the lease, basically extending the contracts to everyone and then asking owners to sign the quit claim to renounce to the last 15 years of the lease.
Someone say that since the lease is extended and you haven't signed te quit claim, DVC cannot deny you to continue to use your membership. If you want to sell, they require to sign the quit claim, so you cannot resell it with the later expiration, but if you keep it they cannot force you to sign.
What will happen in 2042 is not certain, but this is the theory.
What we know for certain is that DVC will not do another extension in the same way, really too messy. My guess is that they won't extend BCV and BWV (they'll be two gold mines with revised point charts and higher buy in cost), close/sell Vero and HHI and resell as a new resort BRV with a shorter expiration to match CCV and then resell both as a merged resort when they both expire.

Was the contract written differently for OKW than the newer resorts? It seems pretty clear in the wording of the DVC properties I own that the lease is up when it says it's up barring some sort of change coming direct from Disney. It would be nice if they would at least offer an extension to long term DVC holders at expiring resorts but like you mentioned already, there's no clear reason why they would.

 

[Sandisw]

Was the contract written differently for OKW than the newer resorts? It seems pretty clear in the wording of the DVC properties I own that the lease is up when it says it's up barring some sort of change coming direct from Disney. It would be nice if they would at least offer an extension to long term DVC holders at expiring resorts but like you mentioned already, there's no clear reason why they would.

From my understanding,it wasn’t done differently at onset, but changed. I don’t know why they got Disney to extend it. Given how it didn’t go over well, and given how they can repurpose BWV and BCV with newer and point heavy charts and upgrades, it makes little sense to try it again.

 

[jkips]

The mistakes they made with the OKW extension have been discussed a lot on this board. There is a lot they could do better and for most members there's a price where it makes sense to buy an extension if it's offered.

 

[jkips]

A lot of people forget or don't take into account how expensive it is for Disney to sell the DVC contracts. There's a reason why they don't exercise more of their ROFR options to reduce the secondary supply. Aulani is a great case in point. The average selling price of those contracts in the secondary market is a bit under $100 relative to $188 if buying direct. Even when the DVC direct incentives are taken into account that's a huge discount and from what I understand Disney has never executed a ROFR on an Aulani contract. On interpretation of that is that Aulani values the sales cost for Aulani DVC contract at somewhere well north of $50/point. Assuming that's comparable for all new DVC inventory that's a real hurdle to get over from a P&L perspective if they do let all of the 2042 expiring contracts expire. That's a lot of inventory they need to refresh then sell. And a lot of dues paying DVC members with high lifetime customer values they are letting walk out the door.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

On interpretation of that is that Aulani values the sales cost for Aulani DVC contract at somewhere well north of $50/point.

I think using Aulani as a general example is not representative of anything. As a sales property it is an epic fail. The legal issues, the lack of sell out after almost 10 years...

There have been 3 Orlando resorts fully sold in that time, and a 4th opened that is sure to sell through while Aulani is still pushed on cruises.

 

[jkips]

I think using Aulani as a general example is not representative of anything. As a sales property it is an epic fail. The legal issues, the lack of sell out after almost 10 years...

There have been 3 Orlando resorts fully sold in that time, and a 4th opened that is sure to sell through while Aulani is still pushed on cruises.

Fair enough. Aulani is in a class of it's own. I did use an extreme example but the point still stands - Disney doesn't buy back many points - dvcresalemarket had it at less than 17% year-to-date through November - and secondary DVC points trade at a 30 to 50% discount in the secondary market vs buying direct across all resorts. There are other aspects other than the cost of sales for Disney for why they let those secondary transactions happen at such a discounted price but what it does cost them to sell a DVC is a significant percentage of those overall costs. Those mailers and castmembers standing all over the parks pitching DVC aren't free.

 

[wdrl]

Key words: Was offered. It was a limited offer in 2007. The offer has not been on the table in more than 10 years.

Are you sure the extension offer has not been on the table in more than 10 years?

Over the last few years I have seen a handful of deed transactions where OKW owners paid Disney to extend their ownership to 2057. Admittedly, its been a small number of such transactions, but somehow, some way, some owners are extending their deeded interests even though we are well past the initial 2007/2008 offer timeframe.

 

[ziravan]

Are you sure the extension offer has not been on the table in more than 10 years?

Over the last few years I have seen a handful of deed transactions where OKW owners paid Disney to extend their ownership to 2057. Admittedly, its been a small number of such transactions, but somehow, some way, some owners are extending their deeded interests even though we are well past the initial 2007/2008 offer timeframe.

I’ve seen several reports here of people who asked and were told no.

I’m sure, however, that if it were in DVC’s interest to do so, they could certainly allow an extension to go through.

If I had to guess, I’d say that they probably wouldn’t honor the request of a quit-claimed owner/deed (any post-2007 resale) to extend, but given the opportunity to accept payment from a 2007 owner who didn’t sign, and get them off the books as a problem: they would.

Accept money now or face possibly having to give it away later...

Story told by several here Is that DVC tracked them down during their visits to WDW for a few years trying to get them to sign. So they DO consider it a problem and a paid extension probably isn’t as good as a quit-claim at this point, but better than nothing.

 

[chalee94]

A lot of people forget or don't take into account how expensive it is for Disney to sell the DVC contracts. There's a reason why they don't exercise more of their ROFR options to reduce the secondary supply.

The cost to refurbish and resell BRV, BWV and BCV will be peanuts compared to ROFR costs.

Again, DVC likely did not have a legal right to extend OKW based on the contract language used for the 2042 resorts (updated since). Owners didn't realize that in 2007 (and many didn't care) but more opposition would dig in if another extension were even to be attempted. And Disney is aware of that.

OTOH, despite the additional restrictions and limitations written into the Riviera contracts, buyers are still willing to walk in the door. I don't think Disney is concerned at all with losing customers in 2042 at this point. I agree that Aulani- as an expensive to buy, expensive to maintain, expensive to visit for East Coasters offsite resort - is the outlier and not useful for comparison to the 2042 resorts. (Except for VB and HHI, which - as discussed - will likely be spun out of the DVC system in 2042.)

 

[DougEMG]

I wonder if they will try and offer another OKW extension closer to 2042.

 

[eileenkeeney]

Wonder how many of those owners are out there that might actually get the 2057 for free? Boy that would be a slap in the face to those who actually paid for the extension, right?

I am one of those owners, and hope that I am still of sound enough mind to attempt to book February of 2042 (I will be 84 then). I will also have to decide if it is worth paying my dues in January of 2042. Perhaps I will attempt to borrow from my 2042 points (which I do not get until April) for an April trip in 2041.
I am wondering if, upon my death (assuming I die before 2042), when my niece (who will inherit the contract), will be required to sign the wavier before taking ownership.

 

[Bearval]

Have you signed the quit claim? If you haven't, than you might have the extension for free.

More than likely in 22 years when this comes to a head Disney will take a page from Merck's Vioxx lawsuit and chose to fight each lawsuit individually instead of having it go to a class action lawsuit. This will make it extremely expensive to fight.

 

[Sandisw]

I am one of those owners, and hope that I am still of sound enough mind to attempt to book February of 2042 (I will be 84 then). I will also have to decide if it is worth paying my dues in January of 2042. Perhaps I will attempt to borrow from my 2042 points (which I do not get until April) for an April trip in 2041.
I am wondering if, upon my death (assuming I die before 2042), when my niece (who will inherit the contract), will be required to sign the wavier before taking ownership.

it is very possible that any change in ownership would require that type of document. But I do wonder what they will do with the OKW owners like you who didn’t sign.