What makes DVC worth investing in?

[crisi]

A cash hotel isn't DVC. You can rent points and get an apples to apples experience, but you cannot objectively do a financial comparison of a DVC room at BCV to a CRO room at the Beach Club. A Beach Club room comes with pros and cons that you don't get with DVC - for instance, with DVC you can get a multi room unit (suites are available at BCV, but they are really expensive, and usually booked - or you can roll the dice and hope your request for connecting rooms gets met), but you'll pay extra for towels every day. A Beach Club room I can cancel pretty much last minute and get my money back, within 30 days cancelling a BCV room has onerous restrictions on it - and earlier than that I have to be aware of banking windows and my use year and the probability that those points are usable. The value of those things is difficult to quantify. We call the premium we pay to stay in two bedroom units when our kids were little "the nookie tax" - I dare anyone to put an objective value on sex with my husband on vacation.....(its higher than the difference in value between points spent on a studio and a two bedroom - it isn't as high as the cost of a suite at Disney in a cash hotel).

But the real thing that is hard to financially qualify is the true cost of capital, adjusting for risk. There are ways to do it in a corporation, but a corporation isn't a family - there isn't an equivalent of "primary breadwinner is out of work for four months recovering from surgery - long term disability kicks in a 1/3 of the pay." The assumptions that you make in a corporate setting are not ones that really should be made in the average family.

You should certainly analyze your DVC purchase - but you should analyze your purchase against your own needs (which are variable - am I a short term booker, am I going to need to cancel reservations, am I going at least every other year, do I value being onsite or should I consider buying Bonnet Creek?) regarding Disney vacations and your own financial situation (again - variable - am I sitting on a few million in trust fund money, do I have four kids I want to be able to help through college, am I helping support my parents - or going to need to in a few years, is my job one where I know I'm in long term demand, or if I get laid off, might it take me a year or longer to find a comparable job? Am I likely to have significant health challenges, am I about to graduate from medical school and start a lucrative cardiology practice or am I about to leave my job as a social worker before managing to pay off my student loans because I'm having twins, or am I about to retire with ample retirement income and few obligations). All that is FAR more important than "do I save money over a cash room."

 

[crisi]

If you can buy the exact same rooms (identical experience) for 1/3rd of the cost, you would still suggest DVC just because they CAN afford it?

See I disagree with this premise. And since I don't agree with your premise, I can't agree with your analysis. A DVC unit is not identical to a CRO unit, anymore than my Toyota is identical to my husband's Benz. They both have wheels and breaks and bumpers, they are both even sedans......but they are not identical.

 

[quandrea]

You can buy everything that DVC offers without owning DVC. DVC at the heart of it is prepaid hotel rooms. You can buy the exact same hotel rooms using cash rates or renting DVC points.

If the cost of buying DVC was more expensive than renting points, why would you buy it just because you can afford it?

DVC at its core is just an alternative method to financing future vacations. This is why the financial analysis is important

I’d never rent dvc points. Can’t deal with the no cancellation policy. Of course if dvc were more expensive than getting a hotel room, I would not still purchase it.

The extent to which people do the financial analysis seems extreme to me. In the end, there is no amount of financial gymnastics/rationalisations that make dvc a truly prudent purchase. I think to try and make it so is folly.

If someone wants it, but it. Don’t try to make it into a sound financial purchase, likened to purchasing a mutual fund. Just accept it for what it is—prepaying a hotel room.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

See I disagree with this premise. And since I don't agree with your premise, I can't agree with your analysis. A DVC unit is not identical to a CRO unit, anymore than my Toyota is identical to my husband's Benz. They both have wheels and breaks and bumpers, they are both even sedans......but they are not identical.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am pretty sure that you can book DVC villas direct from disney. These are different than booking a normal deluxe hotel room. On the Disney website, they are setup as their own unique category. So it is an apples to apples comparison. You as a DVC member and me as not can stay in the exact same room. The only difference is how much we pay.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

I’d never rent dvc points. Can’t deal with the no cancellation policy. Of course if dvc were more expensive than getting a hotel room, I would not still purchase it.

The extent to which people do the financial analysis seems extreme to me. In the end, there is no amount of financial gymnastics/rationalisations that make dvc a truly prudent purchase. I think to try and make it so is folly.

If someone wants it, but it. Don’t try to make it into a sound financial purchase, likened to purchasing a mutual fund. Just accept it for what it is—prepaying a hotel room.

Nobody here is arguing that DVC will make you money. The financial argument is that DVC's value is that it can save you money.

If I buy something for $100 that will save me $100, the end result is the same as not buying the thing and paying full price. The question of whether it was worth it is still a financial question whether the benefit os earning money or saving money

 

[crisi]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am pretty sure that you can book DVC villas direct from disney. These are different than booking a normal deluxe hotel room. On the Disney website, they are setup as their own unique category. So it is an apples to apples comparison. You as a DVC member and me as not can stay in the exact same room. The only difference is how much we pay.

You can. When you do, it is treated like a cash room with cash benefits like cash cancellation policies. So still not apples to apples and your premise is still flawed.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

You can. When you do, it is treated like a cash room with cash benefits like cash cancellation policies. So still not apples to apples and your premise is still flawed.

So they are near identical being the only difference is the cash option is more flexible? So its really an apples to apples comparison other than the cash option has an additional benefit over DVC.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

So they are near identical being the only difference is the cash option is more flexible? So its really an apples to apples comparison other than the cash option has an additional benefit over DVC.

Daily full housekeeping too. I'd consider it an apples to apple consideration though. Definitely close enough that if cash booking prices are anywhere near the cost of owning DVC then there's little point to DVC.

 

[RaymOOOnd]

This thread is really helping me to work out some foolishness on my own part. I have two contracts from the pre-restriction days, bought 3-4 years ago, including a large AKV contract for $69pp... and lately I've been tempted to negate that good deal by spending a lot more for a lesser product. Like someone who has delved too deeply into the trees and misses the extent of the forest, I've almost never considered that cash rooms at Yacht club, BC, BW etc can be had for $400-600/night

Maybe it's fair to summary the pros as follows:
DVC: slightly cheaper over time, more practical than cash for large accommodations (i.e. if you need a villa rather than a hotel room), modest discounts on a few things like APs
Cash: daily room service, rooms better maintained, can be booked at much shorter notice

Any financial benefit which remains from buying a resale contract now for an Epcot-area resort, going for $120-150pp with 23 years left on the contract, has GOT to be modest. I'm seeing some standard view rooms from the high $300s with cash.

 

[sethschroeder]

Any financial benefit which remains from buying a resale contract now for an Epcot-area resort, going for $120-150pp with 23 years left on the contract, has GOT to be modest. I'm seeing some standard view rooms from the high $300s with cash.

Exactly why buying BWV is giving me pause. Although I wouldn't pay cash (that is still way more) I compare to potential points rental prices (I figure $0.50 increate per year). I have also turned away from the idea of buying BWV direct from Disney because there is just not enough run way to guarantee a return and if you sell in 10-15 years time pricing has to be tanking at that point with only 5-10 years left.

Getting contracts for that cheap is a huge win for your pocket as well.

 

[crisi]

So they are near identical being the only difference is the cash option is more flexible? So its really an apples to apples comparison other than the cash option has an additional benefit over DVC.

Several additional benefits, and some negatives as well But you cannot objectively value that cancellation policy. You can objectively value that additional housekeeping since DVC can pay for it, we know exactly what it costs. But what you cannot objectively value is the risk of having capital tied up for individuals. Nor can you objectively value the behavioral changes ownership is likely to bring. When I drive the Mercedes, I drive with a heavier foot than when I drive the Prius. If I drove them both the same, I could use the published MPG to come up with total cost of ownership. But my behavior changes - quite a bit - based off what car I drive.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

Several additional benefits, and some negatives as well But you cannot objectively value that cancellation policy. You can objectively value that additional housekeeping since DVC can pay for it, we know exactly what it costs. But what you cannot objectively value is the risk of having capital tied up for individuals. Nor can you objectively value the behavioral changes ownership is likely to bring. When I drive the Mercedes, I drive with a heavier foot than when I drive the Prius. If I drove them both the same, I could use the published MPG to come up with total cost of ownership. But my behavior changes - quite a bit - based off what car I drive.

These are all cons on the side of DVC when comparing it to cash rates. Going back to the original premise, the only reason why DVC makes sense is if the financial analysis proves that it will save you money (either by not paying cash rates for deluxe accommodations that you would otherwise have paid, or by allowing you to rent those deluxe accommodations that you wouldn't have because the analysis says they are cheaper).

 

[Novakm]

My situation was a Little different. I had a very specific short term goal: 3 trips in 3 years, one with each of my 3 daughters’ families.

As “once in a lifetime” trips, I wanted to give each the full Disney experience.

I looked at family rooms at AOA, renting DVC points, or buying DVC resale, and then selling after 3trips, assuming a 20% loss on the sale.

Buying at the time came up to slightly more than AOA, and less than renting points. I went ahead and bought 250 points so we could stay in 2br villas at AKL.

After 3 awesome trips, I could have sold my points for more than I paid for the points plus all the dues I paid over 3 years!

The plan worked, saved me a ton of money!

But I didn’t sell. I have gone 3 more times with family, once with just my DW, and treated family to 1 trip on their own. I have another trip planned. So much for saving money...I’m not ready to sell yet.

So its not a great investment, cost me lots of money. But I would do it again.

 

[mustinjourney]

This is very typical and part of the genius of Disney with DVC. A very large number of Members end up spending more after buying DVC. They go more often, stay longer, stay in larger rooms, try more expensive resorts than their home, treat friends and family, etc. It's a rare buyer that keeps to the same travel pattern after buying than they originally planned /used to analyze the purchase.

Guilty as charged!

what started out as 150 points (VGF) and going every other year, which quickly turned into 280 points within a month (addon-itis is real). And then we added 25 at BCV direct to get benefits and have a F&W resort. Stayed pat for 2 years, then added 25 more BCV before recent price increase so we could do F&W more than once every 3 years...and fast forward 6 months, we're about to add 150 points at Riviera.

 

[mustinjourney]

Any financial benefit which remains from buying a resale contract now for an Epcot-area resort, going for $120-150pp with 23 years left on the contract, has GOT to be modest. I'm seeing some standard view rooms from the high $300s with cash.

For summer time yes -- I agree. Booking cash is a better deal right now. But SW:GE is about to change that.

Also -- I can get a standard studio at BWV for 10 points. Even buying in now at $120 a point is still less than $15 a point (even accounting for TVM) -- so that room is still only $150 per night vs $300 plus tax.

 

[gharter]

The only suggestion I have is do the research. DVC is not for everyone, nor does it try to be.
If you go to Disney frequently, yearly or every other year, DVC may make sense.
We didn't buy DVC when our kids were young and waited till they were in college. We knew while they were in Jr High and High School, going to WDW wasn't going to work well. When the youngest went to College was when we purchased. It has worked well for us. YMMV.
For both of our contracts, this year, in our 4th trip, we will start saving money based on a twice a year trip.

 

[rotlex]

Here's my take after "thinking" about buying DVC for over a decade now. One, don't overthink the purchase money wise. If I ever start getting out spreadsheets, slide rules and scientific calculators to start deciding whether or not a time share is worth it, I'll decide to just never vacation again. Anyway, here's my high level take and I've read similar things over the years.

As I said, my wife and I have been thinking about buying in for a long time now. We still think about it. The problem is, in our case, no matter how much we try to talk ourselves into it, we always walk away. Why? Our vacationing style and other key factors. In general, we do the following:

- Long trips - 12-14 days on average. We would need a lot of points to do that, and not being able to book that long all at one shot is just stupid to me.
- We have gotten deals every single year. It could be free dining, room discounts etc. etc., but our trips have always been quite reasonable, even throwing in the occasional deluxe trip.
- We spend far more time in the parks and out and about than we do in the hotel. While we like a nice resort, frankly, we don't vacation for the hotel. We vacation for the activities, parks etc. etc.
- We like having daily room service\housekeeping.
- No matter how we slice it, factoring in the initial purchase cost, maintenance fees etc. etc., it would take us a long time to recover the "investment".
- We don't buy into the ownership thing. You don't own anything. It's a timeshare that expires and unless you pay an extreme price by buying direct from Disney, your getting less and less perks every year.
- Also on a cost note, Disney prices just keeping going up. Sure, my hotel might remain the same with DVC, but park tickets, food, getting there etc. etc. is getting very very costly. While we still visit once a year, we are starting to enjoy other trips. National parks, outdoor type of stuff, and yes, even other theme parks.

Now, with all that said, we are still thinking about it. Why? Not sure really. Were insane Disney lovers maybe? (That, probably that, lol).

 

[CanadaDisney05]

Here's my take after "thinking" about buying DVC for over a decade now. One, don't overthink the purchase money wise. If I ever start getting out spreadsheets, slide rules and scientific calculators to start deciding whether or not a time share is worth it, I'll decide to just never vacation again. Anyway, here's my high level take and I've read similar things over the years.

- No matter how we slice it, factoring in the initial purchase cost, maintenance fees etc. etc., it would take us a long time to recover the "investment".

The point of pulling out the spreadsheets is to do the calculation on exactly what you mentioned. If you don't find the "savings" portion of DVC interesting, DVC is probably not for you. I've said it numerous times in this thread, but DVC ownership doesn't actually provide any additional, non-tangible benefit. You can get everything that DVC offers without owning DVC. You can pay cash rates, or rent points and stay in the exact same DVC villas without ever making an offer on a DVC contract. The ONLY reason to purchase DVC is if the math makes sense in your personal circumstance. If DVC doesn't provide a financial benefit based on the way you would like to vacation, then DVC is not for you.

 

[Bing Showei]

The point of pulling out the spreadsheets is to do the calculation on exactly what you mentioned. If you don't find the "savings" portion of DVC interesting, DVC is probably not for you. I've said it numerous times in this thread, but DVC ownership doesn't actually provide any additional, non-tangible benefit. You can get everything that DVC offers without owning DVC. You can pay cash rates, or rent points and stay in the exact same DVC villas without ever making an offer on a DVC contract. The ONLY reason to purchase DVC is if the math makes sense in your personal circumstance. If DVC doesn't provide a financial benefit based on the way you would like to vacation, then DVC is not for you.

What do you suggest comparing costs of buying a Disney timeshare to in order to determine whether the savings that would make buying in worth it?

While the merits of comparing the costs of a Disney timeshare commitment with the inflated prices of the physically equivalent room at rack rate is questionable, it seems to be what you hang onto as a valid comparison to calculate savings.

Would you expect then for the use of such units to be a standard practice that existed prior to timeshare ownership? Or is it enough that one has decided they want to stay in those types of accommodations for the next 23 plus years?

I think the luxury purchase argument that keeps being made and that you keep dismissing is that with the exception of people like crvetter, who buy exactly what they have historically used and don’t modify their vacationing behaviors, most people who use the spreadsheets to justify a cost savings will end up looking back in 10 years and laugh at what they were going to save as it most likely that none of that really mattered much. Their travel patterns change, they suddenly go more often, they’re suddenly bringing family and friends more regularly, they needed to buy more points; the list goes on.

The nature of a Disney timeshare ownership is that your behaviors change. Putting value on determining savings for most people is a fantasy; a justification for locking away a lot of money into doing something they probably wouldn’t do as much of if they hadn’t made the commitment to doing it again and again for 23 years.

I’m not sure I disagree that people should look at the math. It’s good to understand the financials, but there is a risk of using those “savings” to justify an over-extended purchase. At the end of the day, it’s important that people who are considering committing, in some cases, 50 years of timeshare ownership, know that there are countless current “owners” who have those exact same spreadsheets collecting dust. The numbers on those sheets do not reflect at all the kinds of travelers we’ve become or the travel plan projections we made as a result of having bought a Disney timeshare.

Did we save tons of money? Sure. If I were to add up what I would’ve paid in cash for all the stays I’ve had, I could probably convince myself that I’m MAKING money.

I have nothing against spreadsheets. If you can put one together that tells you in 7-8 years you’ll be net positive and minting money, power to you. But for some of us, the more important calculations for any prospective buyer are: Can you afford to buy it? Can you afford to continue to pay the maintenance fees without adding undue stress on your family’s financials? Can you afford the additional park costs year after year? Can you afford to treat the contracts as a sunk cost that you will be able to walk away from if things went south? Because if that math tells you that you can, a Disney timeshare will probably bring you and your family a lot of joy and happiness.

If not, it doesn’t matter how much your spreadsheet clearly lays out the savings you’ll experience over the next 8 years.

 

[rotlex]

The point of pulling out the spreadsheets is to do the calculation on exactly what you mentioned. If you don't find the "savings" portion of DVC interesting, DVC is probably not for you. I've said it numerous times in this thread, but DVC ownership doesn't actually provide any additional, non-tangible benefit. You can get everything that DVC offers without owning DVC. You can pay cash rates, or rent points and stay in the exact same DVC villas without ever making an offer on a DVC contract. The ONLY reason to purchase DVC is if the math makes sense in your personal circumstance. If DVC doesn't provide a financial benefit based on the way you would like to vacation, then DVC is not for you.

I disagree. Any vacation or leisure experience is never "worth it" from a monetary perspective for anyone. My real point is\was that if you have the money, and want DVC, or any other time share\vacation experience just do it. Don't think it over too much. Your either going to enjoy it or not. When all someone worries about is the money, they probably shouldn't even start thinking about it in the first place.