What were you drinking? ..and other responses to my plan to do Dopey 2018 (Comments Welcome)

Dopeyintraining

Mouseketeer
Joined
Apr 14, 2017
Well here goes my attempt at a training journal in my quest to complete the 2018 Dopey Challenge.
Having hit a bit of a bad patch I thought this was a good time to start documenting my training to try to get myself back on track.

Where I am right now
Having hit my 40s and getting fatter and unfitter by the minute, I decided to try to be (a bit) healthier. So I lost 2 stone and have been running for the last 2 years, mostly at my local parkrun. I started training for my first half in November 2016 which I ran in March. However I have had a bit of time off running as I've had a calf niggle since beginning of April.

PBs
HM 2:25:18 March 2017 - (update 2:17:01 -1st October 2017)
15k 1:36:22 April 2017
10k 1:02:40 Dec 2016
5k 28:28 Dec 2016

Training objectives
-To complete the rest of the year injury-free /complete the majority of the planned miles running (or cross-training where necessary) -
-To get a HM POT ~ 2:15:00 -2:20:00 - achieved 1st October

Race objectives
5k (??:??:??) Very easy
10k (??:??:??) with my DH, character stops & photos
Half (??:??:??) with my DD, photo at the castle
Marathon (??:??:??) finish comfortably, optional: get to ride ToT or RnR

Obstacles:
1) Well obviously, never having run a marathon before let alone do back to back runs. I do realise that this is a big ask and I know I have to put in some work.
2) Other things getting in the way of training. One major problem is I have other sport/family committments and there are going to be some clashes from now up to end of September.

What was I dr(th)inking?
The title of this thread comes from a good friend who really couldn't get her head round why anyone would put themselves through this. I LOVE Disney so any excuse to go back, but I see this challenge as an amazing opportunity. I am very lucky to have the time, money (because let's be honest it is not cheap) and, health-wise, the ability to do something as daft as this.

upload_2017-5-24_14-51-9.png

Finally to say, thanks to those of you who have posted up their own training journals as this has certainly helped me think things through.
 
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Overview of my training plan
My current plan is simialr to the Higson plan. I had a partial half marathon plan overlapping this up to end of August to achieve a POT on 1st October.

At this stage the planned mileage is a 700+ miles running + 375+ miles cross-training (bike, swim or row). As I couldn't run much April/May I have been cross-training instead. I should now be able to switch back to regular runs 4 times a week.

I have few races/challenges dispersed throughout:
Super Sprint Tri - May (Swim 400m 0:15:19; 20k bike, 1:15:32; 5k, 0:34:19)
Millie's Half 20th August
401 Challenge (5k, 10k, half - ~2:25)
Richmond half - 1st Oct (Goal 2:15:00 - 2:20:00 as POT, Chip time 2:17:01)
Swindon 10k (Goal 1:05:00)

DD's basic plan for the HM (thanks to @DopeyBadger)
https://www.disboards.com/threads/w...-plan-to-do-dopey-2018.3606631/#post-57751240
 
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muddy.JPG

W/C 15th May-Week 14

Mon - 2 miles Easy
Thurs - 3.3 miles Easy
Sat - Pretty Muddy 5k
Sun - 3.1 recovery

This was my 2nd week back with some actual running. I was quite happy how my legs felt.
I had booked the Pretty Muddy ages ago so my goal was just to enjoy it and get very muddy, er well mission accomplished.
 


This week was one of those weeks where stuff gets in the way. I didn't really stick to my plan on any of the days but I have at least done most of my miles and I'm feeling like I'm getting backinto it.

This week :

Planned:
Tue 23rd 3 easy @11:48
Thur 25th 3 easy @11:48
Sat 27th 3.1 - 5k parkrun 35 min pacer @ 11:16

Actual:
Mon 22nd 1.6 @10:12
Thur 25th 2.5 C25k @12:00 morning + 2.5pm @10:28 evening
Sat 27th 3.1 - 5k parkrun Tempo@10:12

Tuesday I was travelling with work, Wednesday eve I was at a club competition, so I squeezed in a short quick run Monday instead. Thursday I split into two and ran a C25K session with my DH in the morning with a slightly quicker run in the evening. Today, I had volunteered for the 35 pacer slot at Parkrun but someone else wanted it. I ended up running/chatting with a friend so didn't really pay much attention to my pace and ran faster than I'd intended. My Garmin is telling me I need 56 hours to recover. Really? I feel fine and felt I had plenty more in my legs.

I won't be running tomorrow anyway, as I'm at an all day competition (and of course it's a Bank Hoiliday weekend so the weather will probably be rubbish). I did notice after the last all day competition I was dehydrated the next day so must try to get on top of that.

All good though as my legs feel fine, though my hips are a bit tight (must stretch before and AFTER).

Next week:
Mon 29th: Supersprint tri (400m swim, 20k bike, 5k run)
Thurs, 3 mile
Sat, Parkrun 5k
Sun Easy 4 mile
 


View attachment 240066
I've got a forerunner 630. The recovery advisor is found from the main menu on the watch under 'My Stats'.

If you're not feeling overly sore it leads me to believe the inputted stats in your Garmin must be off. Does the resting HR, max HR, and HR zones seem reasonable to you? These would play a major role in the recovery advisor (especially if you're only using an optical HR monitor).
 
If you're not feeling overly sore it leads me to believe the inputted stats in your Garmin must be off. Does the resting HR, max HR, and HR zones seem reasonable to you? These would play a major role in the recovery advisor (especially if you're only using an optical HR monitor).

I don't feel the HR are quite right. There are a couple of choices for setting the HR zones and I'm using the one which works off the max HR -restHR difference. The standard 220 - your age max heart rate is well off for me. I always seem to have a much higher HR than expected so I seem to spend too most of my time in zone 4-5. I haven't had the watch that long so I'm wondering if it needs some time to adjust. It gives me a lactate threshold estimate on most runs and that appears to have got slightly worse since I had a break from running. There also a performance indicator and a few other features which I haven't figured out yet how they work.

I've got a RUN HRM strap and I tested it against an optical HR (fitbit) and another chest strap by doing intervals and a sprint. The 2 chest straps were pretty much identical but the optical lagged behind as it took a few second to register the change in speed/increase in HR. I also seems to max out around mid 170s.
 
Why don't you do an HR test? They're quite easy to do on a treadmill and give better results than either of the two common formulas.
I hadn't thought of doing this on the treadmill, so thanks. I'll see if there's a set program the next time I'm in the gym.
 
This week:
Planned:
Mon 29th: Supersprint tri (400m swim, 20k bike, 5k run)
Thurs, 3 mile
Sat, Parkrun 5k
Sun Easy 4 mile

Actual:
Mon 29th: Supersprint tri (400m swim 14:59, 20k bike 1:15:17 , 5k run 34:19)
Weds, 3 mile -intervals with DH 9:30 increasing to 8:10/12:20
Sat, Parkrun 5k (31 min, 9:55)+ 4.2k run home (11:20)
Sun -Rest

I was really happy with my supersprint. I'm not a great swimmer, and I'm sure it wasn't very pretty. Had a bit of trouble getting going on the bike and even more trouble going from the bike to the run with very wobbly legs to start with. I felt it was good practice for running with tired legs. I ran a fast-ish 5k Saturday 27th and even though I didn't run Sunday as I was competing, so I was on my feet for over 7 hours in the sun and wind (I probably walked over 8k backwards and forwards).

Saturday at the parkrun, my mate ask me to pace her so I did run faster than I had intended, but afterwards I felt great and it was such a nice day I ran home. A few weeks ago I was losing my confidence as I had to take a break from running but this run I felt that I'm getting my mojo back.
I didn't run Sunday as I didn't want to increase my mileage too much. (9.5 week before).

Looking ahead, I had intended not to fill up my weekends in June so I could concentrate on running as I know my July is quite busy. That's not quite worked out as I had some (nice) news this week. I've been selected to compete for my county at the National Intercounties. Not sure how that happened as I've been neglecting my other training. Anyhow, it does mean a bit of juggling priorities and a whole weekend out (including Friday for travel). Last year when I went up to the National Sports Centre I did manage one little jog around the grounds but it was quite embarrassing as I got a bit lost and ended up huffing and puffing past the training pod where some of the GB squad were preparing for Rio.

At the moment I feel I am sticking to my broader aims which are to stay injury free and to cover as much of the miles as I can, when I can however random that may be. I think I at some point I should get a more specific plan with weekly objectives. I am happy to be advised so please feel free to comment.
 
Well what a difference a week makes. The week before I felt good and much more confident. This last week I felt tired and miserable with dead legs and not really wanting to go out to run. Still I did increase my miles. 14 this week compared with 12 week before. I don't know if it is a conicidence but this week I've increased the poundage on my bow to ~36lbs and added extra weight to the stabilisers. It's been so windy this year so my scores aren't where they should be but trying to hold steady in the wind I think is quite fatiguing, physically and mentally.

Mon 5th, 3 miles (12:20) - very wet, cold and windy.
Wed 1.3 miles + 11km cycle ride with DH + DD. None of this was on my plan but it was Global Running day so wanted to at least show willing.
Thurs, 5 min WU + 3.5 miles intervals with DH (1 min run ~10:00- 10:28/1 min walk)
Sat, Parkrun 5k (31 min, 11:30)+ 5.2k run after (11:15) - ran with my DD at parkrun so went slower than last week.

My plan is 16 miles this week, again split into 4 but not exactly sure when I will go out because of work (grr..) and other stuff. Having asked for advice from people who know better than me, I've been told my Easy run pace should be around 11:30-11:40 so I'm trying to slow down.

Again very happy to hear any advice on pacing or anything else that may help.
 
My plan is 16 miles this week, again split into 4 but not exactly sure when I will go out because of work (grr..) and other stuff. Having asked for advice from people who know better than me, I've been told my Easy run pace should be around 11:30-11:40 so I'm trying to slow down.

Again very happy to hear any advice on pacing or anything else that may help.

This is what I come up with based on the 28:28 5k.

Screen Shot 2017-06-12 at 6.29.39 AM.png

So, I always recommend 80% of the training you do be at long run pace or slower (which means 11:14 min/mile or slower). So it seems the advice you've received is in line with my recommendation as well. If you run 4 days per week, then I'd suggest: easy day, tempo/interval day, easy day, and long run day. This should keep you pretty close to that 80% easy idea.
 
This is what I come up with based on the 28:28 5k.
....
So, I always recommend 80% of the training you do be at long run pace or slower (which means 11:14 min/mile or slower). So it seems the advice you've received is in line with my recommendation as well. If you run 4 days per week, then I'd suggest: easy day, tempo/interval day, easy day, and long run day. This should keep you pretty close to that 80% easy idea.

Thank you for taking the time to work this out for me. I'm chuffed the predicted HM time is 2:11 as I'm aiming for a POT of under 2:15 in October. I was getting close to a sub-1 hr 10k before my time out.

Just to work through this against my current plan.....
For the intervals/tempo, at the moment once a week I am running with my DH who is doing the C25K to kick-start his training for the 10k. This is usally 5 min fast walk WU with 20-30 mins of run/walk intervals. I am just doing slightly longer/fast-ish run with a short walk or slow jog in between. Does this sound about right?

My Saturday 5k Parkrun is currently the hardest run of the week and sometimes I'm in the 30 minute pacer slot. Based on my current mileage, I should do ~3 miles per week at tempo and the rest easy. I guess the weeks I am a Parkrun pacer I should either make that my weekly tempo run or take the pace 35 mins slot instead?
 
Thank you for taking the time to work this out for me.

No problem, happy to help!

I'm chuffed the predicted HM time is 2:11 as I'm aiming for a POT of under 2:15 in October. I was getting close to a sub-1 hr 10k before my time out.

In ideal weather conditions and when ideally trained, I believe that the 2:11 HM is a reasonable goal. Assuming of course, that the 28:28 5k is a good measure of current fitness.

For the intervals/tempo, at the moment once a week I am running with my DH who is doing the C25K to kick-start his training for the 10k. This is usally 5 min fast walk WU with 20-30 mins of run/walk intervals. I am just doing slightly longer/fast-ish run with a short walk or slow jog in between. Does this sound about right?

It really depends on the running pace you're doing when running. Is the pace more like 5k pace (9:11), 10k pace (9:34), HM pace (10:03), or potentially something faster? Dependent on the pacing of the run dictates how much walking should be done to elicit the correct benefits and not to induce too much fatigue. So as an example, if the intervals were 5k intervals, then it's common for people to do 200m, 400m, 800m, or as much as 1600m, with usually a 400m rest (or 2.5-3 minutes). I think given your current paces, I'd probably top out the distance of the 5k paced intervals at 1200m.

My Saturday 5k Parkrun is currently the hardest run of the week and sometimes I'm in the 30 minute pacer slot. Based on my current mileage, I should do ~3 miles per week at tempo and the rest easy. I guess the weeks I am a Parkrun pacer I should either make that my weekly tempo run or take the pace 35 mins slot instead?

Looks like a 30 minute 5k is a 9:39 min/mile. So if we go back to the chart we see that for your current fitness, that is just about 10k pace. Now for a normal training plan, that means you really should be limiting the 10k pacing to about 1000-1600m with rest breaks of between 30-90 seconds. So, this means that doing 5k on the weekends at about 10k pace is counterproductive and likely causing too much fatigue. Add in that this would also be considered a hard workout in addition to the tempo/interval day, and you'd venture into the too much hard territory. It's also a touch too fast to be considered your HM Tempo day (10:03 min/mile). You really want to limit going faster than an 11:14 min/mile to once a week.

Now, the 35 min pacing of 5k (11:15 min/mile) is a perfect match for your long run. So, if you want to continue to do the park run pacing, then I think you should stick to the 35 minute pacing and then over the course of the next few months that long run should be built up. Ideally, you keep the long run to about 25-30% of the total weekly mileage for the week. So as you get closer to the October HM, if you choose to max out your mileage at say 30 miles, then your long run should be no more than 7.5-9 miles (25-30%).
 
Great, so I have made small adjustments to my plan this week and added in the pacing.

-4 miles Easy A
-~ 3 miles: WU + (1.2k@ 5:45/km + 0.4km @ 8:10/km)X3
-4 miles Easy B
- 5 Miles Long

Better go get my trainers on as it looks like a fairly nice afternoon!
 
I'm most of the way through this week’s plan and it’s going OK. I didn't schedule specific days for running as it's been a bit hectic.

Week 18: 12-18 June

Mon: Easy 4.1 miles @11:48

Weds: Intervals 3.5 miles: (WU 5 mins @ 7:49/km + Int1: 1k@ 5:55/km + 0.4km @ 8:04/km, Int 2: 1k@5:44/km + 0.4km @ 7:05/km, Int 3: 1k@5:44/km + ~1km @ 7:38/km)

Fri: Easy 4.2 miles @11:16

To do: 5 miles at long run pace (11:14) which I plan to do Sunday.


The Easy runs were, well easy enough to do though today I ran with my music on and had to keep slowing myself down to stay on pace.

The interval run, I messed up a bit as my watch was set to km laps. I did a quick conversion and I think my target pace was 5:45/km so I was 10 secs out on the first interval. I ran the 2nd recovery too fast.

From 26th June my daughter finishes school and is going to start her training for the Donald HM. I am really proud of her as she wanted to it to keep me company. She runs Parkrun with me most weekends but the most she's run is 5 miles.

@DopeyBadger if you have the time, could I ask if you would work out a training pace chart for her? Her fastest 5k is 30-31 minutes thought she's averaging 35 mins. She ran a 5 mile race in 59:49 and the school cross country 2 mile race in 17 minutes.

I'm thinking she should start running 2-3 per week for around 30 minutes. She tends to set off like she's got zombies chasing her and then fades out at about 2miles in, so i'm trying to slow her down to say 12:30-13:00/mile. I was then thinking of increasing the distance of one of the weekly runs gradually until it maxes out at 10miles about 2-3 week before the WDW marathon weekend.

If you have or anyone else has any other advice that would be wonderful.

Thank you!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Edit: Sun: End up doing 6 miles @ 12:04, first 3 miles were with my DD and the second half the pace was more like 11:48. Neither of us had a great run, for me there were various reasons but I at least got 18 miles done in total this week.
 
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Mon: Easy 4.1 miles @11:48

Weds: Intervals 3.5 miles: (WU 5 mins @ 7:49/km + Int1: 1k@ 5:55/km + 0.4km @ 8:04/km, Int 2: 1k@5:44/km + 0.4km @ 7:05/km, Int 3: 1k@5:44/km + ~1km @ 7:38/km)

Fri: Easy 4.2 miles @11:16

To do: 5 miles at long run pace (11:14) which I plan to do Sunday.

Solid runs this week!

From 26th June my daughter finishes school and is going to start her training for the Donald HM. I am really proud of her as she wanted to it to keep me company. She runs Parkrun with me most weekends but the most she's run is 5 miles.

@DopeyBadger if you have the time, could I ask if you would work out a training pace chart for her? Her fastest 5k is 30-31 minutes thought she's averaging 35 mins. She ran a 5 mile race in 59:49 and the school cross country 2 mile race in 17 minutes.

I'm thinking she should start running 2-3 per week for around 30 minutes. She tends to set off like she's got zombies chasing her and then fades out at about 2miles in, so i'm trying to slow her down to say 12:30-13:00/mile. I was then thinking of increasing the distance of one of the weekly runs gradually until it maxes out at 10miles about 2-3 week before the WDW marathon weekend.

Well, I'd say she's all over the map with these race times!

Screen Shot 2017-06-16 at 11.12.16 AM.png

Not surprisingly, she is fast but lacks endurance. So as you can see from the chart as the distance increases her PRs fall off. Ideally, you train at current fitness, which I believe for her is best assessed as her 2 mile time of 17 minutes. Since you don't have seconds listed, I will assume it is 17:59 to be on the safe side.

Screen Shot 2017-06-16 at 11.15.28 AM.png

So, she is actually not too far behind you on pace. Again, 80% of training would be at a 11:32 min/mile or slower.

So, we've got roughly 28 weeks until Marathon weekend. So she has lots of time to train and improve. In fact, I'd be hesitant to have any long running plan between now and then because that's a lot of time. I'd suggest doing it in blocks of 8-12 weeks. During each block focus on something. Like for instance -

Training Cycle Blocks
6/19/17 - 8/14/17: Build up endurance and tolerance to training. Transition from 2 days per week to 3 days per week and possibly 4 days per week of running. Build up slowly and maintain pacing at 80% at or slower than LR. Set a goal race (maybe 5k/10k) at the end of the cycle to re-assess pacing.

8?14/17 - 10/9/17: Re-assess pacing. Now add in more speed work on one day per week. Nothing extensive, but a touch here or there. Maintain 80% easy. Possibly a 10k at the end of this cycle.

10/9/17 - Marathon Weekend: Re-assess pacing. Build mileage again towards a goal of a HM. Include a HM Tempo day. Dependent on amount of training could include some intervals just below HM pace. Maintain 80% easy. Dependent on weekly training mileage, max at between 25-30% for longest run. Do no more than 150 minutes for longest run.

That's how I would probably build the plan. 1) Endurance and comfort of consistent training, 2) Speed, 3) HM Focus
 

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