Will you still rent your points with David's when this is not in your contract?

davper

DIS Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
I am talking after fact. Owners have had reservations canceled by mistake and if it is a rental and the DVC owner can’t get it back, they would still then be responsible to book something else for a renter and be responsible for the additional cost. In the past, David’s absorbed that.
If through no fault of your own, then I don't think you are resposible. You are going to have to prove it, though.
 

robinb

DIS veteran
Joined
Aug 29, 1999
I am talking after fact. Owners have had reservations canceled by mistake and if it is a rental and the DVC owner can’t get it back, they would still then be responsible to book something else for a renter and be responsible for the additional cost. In the past, David’s absorbed that.
Why would the Owners be responsible? They are not at fault. The clause is there to hold owners accountable if they screw up.
 

n2mm

aka WALTSGIRL
Joined
Oct 9, 2000
My daughter was thinking of using them, but now won’t. She will rent on her own if she needs to.
 
  • McCrae

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 29, 2009
    David’s updated contracts to include this :-

    12. In the event of a Force Majeure (as defined in this paragraph), each party shall be excused from any future performance of obligations under this agreement; provided, however that if Intermediary has collected 100% of the funds for the reservation from Renter, Intermediary will provide to Renter a Credit which is limited in value to the amount paid for the reservation which is _______________ US Dollars on such terms and conditions as determined by Intermediary in its sole discretion, as soon as is reasonably possible after the condition(s) constituting the Force Majeure event is/are notified by Intermediary to Renter and Owner. A Force Majeure is an event beyond the Intermediary’s reasonable control which renders performance of a rental reservation with respect to Owner’s rented points impossible or substantially impaired, including without limitation, acts of God, acts of government, embargoes, war, riot, epidemic, pandemic, natural disaster, governmental order restrictions and Disney Vacation Club closures or cancellation of reservations.
     

    Sandisw

    DVC Forums
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    Why would the Owners be responsible? They are not at fault. The clause is there to hold owners accountable if they screw up.
    The point is that i still think they would be, even if DVC messes up. The broker and renter go after the owner and then the owner has to fight it out with DVC.

    Lets put it this way...I don’t trust that they wouldn’t be expected to And that clause would be used against them.
     

    robinb

    DIS veteran
    Joined
    Aug 29, 1999
    The point is that i still think they would be, even if DVC messes up. The broker and renter go after the owner and then the owner has to fight it out with DVC.

    Lets put it this way...I don’t trust that they wouldn’t be expected to And that clause would be used against them.
    It clearly states, "Should accommodations not be available on date of arrival due to an action or omission by the Owner, including but not limited to negligence on the part of the Owner". DVC messing up a reservation is not an action or omission by the owner. I get that you no longer trust them and that's your prerogative, but I think you're reading in far too much nefarious intent in this clause.
     

    Sandisw

    DVC Forums
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    It clearly states, "Should accommodations not be available on date of arrival due to an action or omission by the Owner, including but not limited to negligence on the part of the Owner". DVC messing up a reservation is not an action or omission by the owner. I get that you no longer trust them and that's your prerogative, but I think you're reading in far too much nefarious intent in this clause.
    Actually, I don’t. I am not sure you would get DVC to put in writing to an owner for the purposes of a rental that they messed up.

    So, we can agree to disagree, Davids has stated in this mess to owners that they should refund money because the closing by DVCM is on them, so I am not sure why anyone would assume he wouldn’t do the same in the future
     

    Grumpy by Birth

    “I AM smiling.”
    Joined
    May 27, 2017
    If Disney closes again, this line does not mean that the owner is on the hook. The owner is responsible if they cancel res, don't pay dues, or sell their contract and new owner doesn't honor. Stuff like that.
    Except, as Marionnette points out below, David's and others contend that resort closure IS the owner's responsibility.
    There are those who have argued that by virtue of DVMC closing the resorts, and DVMC representing the owner, that the owner effectively “canceled” the reservation. I’m not in that group of thought, but David’s has presented that argument to at least one owner. So, apparently David’s either believes that to be the case, or tried this tactic to strong arm the owner into refunding.
    It seems that David's still does not have their act together on their contracts.
    You would think they'd have learned. But putting the onus on the owner in the contract with the renter while not making the owner agree to those terms in the owner's contract indicates that the new contracts are every bit as screwed up as the old ones.
    You cannot be held liable for conditions in a contract you did not sign.
    But, but, but... David's has a contract with the renter saying you are liable. 😉

    This is no better than the old contracts ensuring both parties they would get a refund, which is what got David's into this mess in the first place. Now his contracts with the renters are holding owners to terms that the owner didn't agree to in their contract? :confused3

    Who wants to enter into a contract with me where we both agree that if the sun comes up in the east tomorrow, David's owes us $1M each? Since it's in the contract we signed and agreed to, he's liable right? 🤪

    DVC messing up a reservation is not an action or omission by the owner. I get that you no longer trust them and that's your prerogative, but I think you're reading in far too much nefarious intent in this clause.
    Davids has stated in this mess to owners that they should refund money because the closing by DVCM is on them, so I am not sure why anyone would assume he wouldn’t do the same in the future
    As Sandisw pointed out, whether "nefarious" or not, David's is most definitely taking the stance that owners are responsible in the case of resort closure to deflect the liability from himself (despite the fact that his negligence in writing the contracts resulted in this situation not being adequately addressed).

    The new contracts seem aimed at "rectifying" that error (in a way favorable to David's) by stating that the owner IS responsible under these circumstances. I find it all the more mind-boggling, then, that this CRITICAL caveat is omitted from the owner's contract. 😲

    Which (if not "nefarious") is, at a minimum, not transparent. Including that in the owner's contract would likely result in absolutely NO ONE agreeing to the terms of that contract. But the broker still needs that caveat to cover themselves.

    What to do? What to do?
    :idea:

    I've got it! Add it to the renter's contract!

    Once again, these contracts are offering assurances to the renter that probably won't "stick" because the owner didn't agree to them.

    496212
     

    McCrae

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 29, 2009
    Except, as Marionnette points out below, David's and others contend that resort closure IS the owner's responsibility.




    You would think they'd have learned. But putting the onus on the owner in the contract with the renter while not making the owner agree to those terms in the owner's contract indicates that the new contracts are every bit as screwed up as the old ones.


    But, but, but... David's has a contract with the renter saying you are liable. 😉

    This is no better than the old contracts ensuring both parties they would get a refund, which is what got David's into this mess in the first place. Now his contracts with the renters are holding owners to terms that the owner didn't agree to in their contract? :confused3

    Who wants to enter into a contract with me where we both agree that if the sun comes up in the east tomorrow, David's owes us $1M each? Since it's in the contract we signed and agreed to, he's liable right? 🤪





    As Sandisw pointed out, whether "nefarious" or not, David's is most definitely taking the stance that owners are responsible in the case of resort closure to deflect the liability from himself (despite the fact that his negligence in writing the contracts resulted in this situation not being adequately addressed).

    The new contracts seem aimed at "rectifying" that error (in a way favorable to David's) by stating that the owner IS responsible under these circumstances. I find it all the more mind-boggling, then, that this CRITICAL caveat is omitted from the owner's contract. 😲

    Which (if not "nefarious") is, at a minimum, not transparent. Including that in the owner's contract would likely result in absolutely NO ONE agreeing to the terms of that contract. But the broker still needs that caveat to cover themselves.

    What to do? What to do?
    :idea:

    I've got it! Add it to the renter's contract!

    Once again, these contracts are offering assurances to the renter that probably won't "stick" because the owner didn't agree to them.

    View attachment 496212
    David’s have updated their contracts again....this time renter agrees to receive a credit voucher for an unexpected resort closure
     

    travelplanningnerd

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Apr 21, 2020
    That's how I read it. That the Owner is responsible for paying for reasonable accommodations if THEY screw up. I have no problem with that. I sell tickets on Stubhub and I sign the same type of agreement. I once (foolishly) tried to sell tickets on two platforms and the same tickets sold on Stubhub and on Facebook. I forgot to take them off of SH before accepting the money for them on FB and sending them to the buyer. Whoops. I had to pay for comparable tickets for my SH buyer and it was more than I received for my tickets. I messed up and I paid the price.
    I made this mistake too - had them on Ticketmaster and SH. Never again.
     

    WDWEPCOT

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 2, 2009
    How’s that saying go - fool me once - I’m out !! No way I would touch this with a ten foot pole !! For the love of God what are you paying him a commission for?! To screw you over? It appears this company is not capable of drafting an honest and fair contract to do business who is his advisor ? One of the three stooges ? We Cheet Them and How??
     

    disneydreamer1980

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jan 12, 2017
    I really don’t understand why anyone would go through a broker. We rent to people we know, and if we weren’t able to do that we’d come on here and rent. No way am I giving David a third of my money, for what? It may be easier but it’s not for me.
     

    LAX

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 13, 2016
    To me, it doesn't really matter what the contracts include or exclude now. Based on what has transpired so far, David's as a company has demonstrated it has ZERO intention on honoring what it advertises or is contracted to do for both renters & owners. To most, the contracts have been shown to be essentially nonenforceable because the cost to sue for damages would likely be not worth the cause. Hence, any future transactions with this broker would have to be based on good faith, which has literally evaporated over the last few weeks (not sure how much was actually there even prior to this pandemic).

    Besides, it now appears that his service includes nothing more than just match-making, which makes the commission he charges excessive, IMHO. There are alternatives and I have yet to read horror stories about them screwing their owners and renters like David's has. I would rather take a chance on them than deal with a broker that I now consider "shady" at best if I am ever desperate to rent out points and not want to do it on my own.

    LAX
     
    Last edited:

    SL6827

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 23, 2017
    I just scanned through some these post. I really don't understand a lot. But I will say that I think going forward, reservations with easy, painless, and refundable cost will become much more in demand.
     

    robinb

    DIS veteran
    Joined
    Aug 29, 1999
    I just scanned through some these post. I really don't understand a lot. But I will say that I think going forward, reservations with easy, painless, and refundable cost will become much more in demand.
    that would be ... Disney direct!

    Renters take a risk to get a bargain. Most individual DVC members do not allow refunds and cancellations (in general, not Covid related) and require full payment upfront. Renters agree to that in advance to have a deluxe resort at a moderate price.
     

    dismom58

    Disney Destined
    Joined
    Mar 17, 2007
    To me, it doesn't really matter what the contracts include or exclude now. Based on what has transpired so far, David's as a company has demonstrated it has ZERO intention on honoring what it advertises or is contracted to do for both renters & owners. To most, the contracts have been shown to be essentially nonenforceable because the cost to sue for damages would likely be not worth the cause. Hence, any future transactions with this broker would have to be based on good faith, which has literally evaporated over the last few weeks (not sure how much was actually there even prior to this pandemic).

    Besides, it now appears that his service includes nothing more than just match-making, which makes the commission he charges excessive, IMHO. There are alternatives and I have yet to read horror stories about them screwing their owners and renters like David's has. I would rather take a chance on them than deal with a broker that I now consider "shady" at best if I am ever desperate to rent out points and not want to do it on my own.

    LAX
    Would a class action suit be worth it! I don’t rent my points but it seems this is shady to both party’s and needs to be addressed
     

    LAX

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 13, 2016
    Would a class action suit be worth it! I don’t rent my points but it seems this is shady to both party’s and needs to be addressed
    I am not a lawyer, but I doubt there is enough people for class action status (not sure how many is required, but usually a large number). I think as long as people are aware of what has happened over the last few weeks in the future, then they can make an informed decision for themselves.

    LAX
     

    CarolMN

    DVC Co-Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Aug 18, 1999
    I am not a lawyer, but I doubt there is enough people for class action status (not sure how many is required, but usually a large number). I think as long as people are aware of what has happened over the last few weeks in the future, then they can make an informed decision for themselves.

    LAX
    I'm not a lawyer either.

    I agree with you and would add there isn't enough money in a win to make it worthwhile for an attorney to take such a case on contingency. And the amounts an individual might recover would not be enough to cover the legal fees.
     

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