Wonder how they'll spin this one.

Personally I'm interested in how other countries handle problems and I also enjoy discussing all sorts of issues with people from everywhere. I realize that the U.S. is great and amazing and all of that but our own history is spotty and it never hurts to learn from other experiences.

I also often defend police officers. I can't do so now because I don't know what happened and so far it doesn't look good. My heart goes out to the victims.
 
Why do we have a drunk driving problem when the U.K. doesn't?

Why do heavily armed countries like Finland, Switzerland, and Israel not have our gun issues?

Why has our homicide rate been cut in half during the same timeframe in which firearms sales have exploded?

Why has the homicide rate ALWAYS been higher in NYC than London - even back in the days when NYC had MORE firearms restrictions than London?

In short, we're not nearly as culturally similar as you suggest.

In short it's a cultural difference in attitude, these countries are way more similar than different but if you would like to use that as an excuse by all means go for it.
I am happy over here in a country where I don't have to be frightened my kids may be shot at school.
 
I do think each country is different. What works for one may not work for another. That doesn't mean we can't look to other countries but does it really help on either side to have a "my country does this how come yours doesn't" mentality?
 
I'm not going to take time to fact check you. But, going on the assumption that your data is correct, why wouldn't we look to other countries to see what they are doing in total and see if we could apply any of it here at home? Just because populations are different culturally doesn't mean we can't learn from one another.

I don't have an issue with that. The issue is with the assumption that because X was the answer someplace, it's obviously the answer elsewhere. And if you're going to examine successful countries, you can't just cherry pick the one that has the rule you like and ignore other countries that achieved the same success with entirely DIFFERENT methods.
 


In short it's a cultural difference in attitude, these countries are way more similar than different but if you would like to use that as an excuse by all means go for it.
I am happy over here in a country where I don't have to be frightened my kids may be shot at school.

It's not an excuse, it is what it is. Attitude IS part of culture. And sure, it's a concern that violence may erupt in my children's schools (or the one where my wife works), but I also know statistically, they're WAY more likely to be killed in a car crash on the way TO school, just like your kids.

And while you were happy to cheerlead Australia's "success", you can't really "solve" a problem you don't have. Australia had had very, very few mass killings, and following a particularly nasty one bought back roughly 20% of the firearms in circulation (the bulk of which have since been repurchased), and they haven't had one since. Was a problem "solved"? Or, was it such a rarity already that it's just coincidence it hasn't happened again?

Meanwhile, the overall homicide rate has crept back up during the same period in which the US rate was cut in half. I mean, if we've cut our rate in half in just 20 years, would it not make sense to examine what WE are doing recently & consider doing more of THAT?
 
It's not an excuse, it is what it is. Attitude IS part of culture. And sure, it's a concern that violence may erupt in my children's schools (or the one where my wife works), but I also know statistically, they're WAY more likely to be killed in a car crash on the way TO school, just like your kids.

And while you were happy to cheerlead Australia's "success", you can't really "solve" a problem you don't have. Australia had had very, very few mass killings, and following a particularly nasty one bought back roughly 20% of the firearms in circulation (the bulk of which have since been repurchased), and they haven't had one since. Was a problem "solved"? Or, was it such a rarity already that it's just coincidence it hasn't happened again?

Meanwhile, the overall homicide rate has crept back up during the same period in which the US rate was cut in half. I mean, if we've cut our rate in half in just 20 years, would it not make sense to examine what WE are doing recently & consider doing more of THAT?

I can't speak for Australia as I am in NZ and they are separate countries, but NZs rate per capita has not increased, in 2011 we hit a 25 year low and it has held steady since.

Regardless of whether Australia's has been increasing or not, its homocide rate is still less than half of the US rate.
 
I don't have an issue with that. The issue is with the assumption that because X was the answer someplace, it's obviously the answer elsewhere. And if you're going to examine successful countries, you can't just cherry pick the one that has the rule you like and ignore other countries that achieved the same success with entirely DIFFERENT methods.

Thank you for clarifying your position.
 


I don't have an issue with that. The issue is with the assumption that because X was the answer someplace, it's obviously the answer elsewhere. And if you're going to examine successful countries, you can't just cherry pick the one that has the rule you like and ignore other countries that achieved the same success with entirely DIFFERENT methods.
I don't think anyone said it was THE answer---but it might well be data worth considering when we do have a problem with something. And the voices from those other places are worth hearing. Though some on this thread (not you) made it clear they feel otherwise and that only American voices with their limited American experience have any right to discuss American problems and possible solutions to them (even when thoseAmerican problems result in the death of a non American).
 
I don't think anyone said it was THE answer---but it might well be data worth considering when we do have a problem with something. And the voices from those other places are worth hearing. Though some on this thread (not you) made it clear they feel otherwise and that only American voices with their limited American experience have any right to discuss American problems and possible solutions to them (even when thoseAmerican problems result in the death of a non American).

I think it's pretty fair to say all the data has been studied and continues to be studied.
 
The population of Australia in 2016 was 24.13 million.

The population of the United States in 2016 was 323.1 million.

I would be surprised (& worried) if Australia's murder rate was higher than the United States.

Regarding this particular case, I'll wait until more facts are disclosed. (But, as the general public, we're not necessarily given all the facts, nor should we have to be given all the facts.)

However, in the first reports from the story, it looks like an over-zealous, overly cautious/easily spooked police officer. He's had issues before, & he probably doesn't/didn't have the right temperament to be a police officer. Sadly, this woman paid w/ her life due to the officer's mistake.

Additionally, however, in some instances, when police officers hesitate, they're the ones who end up paying w/ their lives. They often don't have the luxury of hesitating & must make judgment calls in mere seconds - all while sizing up the scene & processing information in incredibly brief flashes of time.

These 2 officers drove into a neighborhood at night, responding to a call about a woman screaming. They had no idea what kind of scenario into which they were driving. They heard a loud noise at the same time an unknown person (at that point, they didn't know who she was) approached the driver's side of the police car. The officer in the passenger seat reacted. He chose wrong. But, perhaps, in his mind, he was remembering the police officer in New York who was shot while sitting in her police car earlier this month.
 
Last edited:
The population of Australia in 2016 was 24.13 million.

The population of the United States in 2016 was 323.1 million.

I would be surprised (& worried) if Australia's murder rate was higher than the United States.
.

Murder rates are measured as a percentage of population, so the differences have already been accounted for. No one was comparing raw numbers of murders, that would be nonsensical
 
Murder rates are measured as a percentage of population, so the differences have already been accounted for. No one was comparing raw numbers of murders, that would be nonsensical

Right. I understand that & how different rates (not just murder) are based on population percentages.

However, I think it's sometimes a bit disingenuous to compare countries on statistics like this when other things aren't also taken into consideration - cities' infrastructures, gang populations, population spread, etc.

Not that countries can't look at other countries to better understand what different countries are doing that's working, it's just that comparing statistic to statistic doesn't always give one the full picture. And, if one isn't willing to look at the whole picture, then the statistic really doesn't mean a lot.
 
Of course....
Some people will feel that it is a crime any time an officer fires their weapon while they are doing their job. Feel that it is always a racist motivated 'murder' or police brutality.

They also seem to be the ones who say 'the other side' will always defend.
That was my point.
Does this thread surprise them... Prove them wrong...
They will always defend as long as the victim doesn't look like them, their spouses or their children.


The same thing is playing out now with the opioid problem. Look at how we are dealing with opioid addicts compared to how we dealt with crack addicts.
 
But when one seems to notice (be surprised enough to notice) the 'tone' of this thread....
It is the many comments like this, from page one, leading all the way thru to the 'tone' comment, that come to my mind.

If there are those who are so surprised, then, is the tone of this thread not proving them wrong.
I've been on the DIS for a long time. I expected the tone to be this way.

I'll be surprised if that black cop doesn't get thrown under the jailhouse for killing a white woman.
 
I've been on the DIS for a long time. I expected the tone to be this way.

I'll be surprised if that black cop doesn't get thrown under the jailhouse for killing a white woman.

Tone discussion aside, are you defending the officer's actions based on the few facts available? Granted, I would like to see more details emerge, but if what really happened is what we've already heard, then I don't see how he could be justified.

FTR, I do not think the officer in the Castille shooting was justified, either. I can't say I have much of an opinion on other cases, as I haven't followed anything else much.
 
I've been on the DIS for a long time. I expected the tone to be this way.

I'll be surprised if that black cop doesn't get thrown under the jailhouse for killing a white woman.

I don't get the obsession with race. Can we just look at the facts of the incident? Me, I am normally a defender of police and maybe even in this case I will but at this moment in time it sounds like the cop made a bad decision. And gee guess what that was way before I knew the race of any of them. Shocker I know.
 
I don't get the obsession with race. Can we just look at the facts of the incident? Me, I am normally a defender of police and maybe even in this case I will but at this moment in time it sounds like the cop made a bad decision. And gee guess what that was way before I knew the race of any of them. Shocker I know.

I don't get the obsession with ignoring the fact that race plays a role in how these cases start, how they are reported, public reaction .....
 
I don't get the obsession with race. Can we just look at the facts of the incident? Me, I am normally a defender of police and maybe even in this case I will but at this moment in time it sounds like the cop made a bad decision. And gee guess what that was way before I knew the race of any of them. Shocker I know.
OK, I'm white, so maybe my perscpective is off, but here is some of what I see:

In an ideal world, yeah, race would play no part in these things. I think most of us want to live in that world. but we don't.

We live in the world where the media harps on the swimming prowress of a white rapist but are quick to mention the number of times an unarmed black man shot by police has been pulled over in recent years.

We live in a world where those with darker skin are much more likely to be found guilty, goiven longer jail sentences and even be suspended from school than those with white skin---for the exact same things. (tons of studies to back this up---google)

and on and on and on

And, yes, when it comes to unarmed or legally armed people being killed by police in very similar circumstnace, it does seem that the narrative is different when the victim is a person of color than when they are white. People are much quicker to defend and officer for shooting when the victim is of color. They are much quicker to suggest that the victim had their hands in the wrong place or spoke with the wrong tone or whathaveyou.

If we could always just look at the facts of the incident, hey that would be awesome. But we can't. And we haven't been. And we may never get there, but if we don't admit we have these biases (and they are often subconscious) and actively work to overcome them, then it is pretty well garunteed we'll never get there.
 
Last edited:

GET A DISNEY VACATION QUOTE

Dreams Unlimited Travel is committed to providing you with the very best vacation planning experience possible. Our Vacation Planners are experts and will share their honest advice to help you have a magical vacation.

Let us help you with your next Disney Vacation!





Top