Worried Venting...(really long....)

[Brightsy]

So my older DS just turned 11. He's got ADHD. On top of that his younger brother, my other DS, (8.5 yrs) has autism. (Some of you know this already, just catching everyone up.)
A couple months ago my older DSs teachers and the school intervention specialist let me know that my DS was struggling. Lots of reasons for this, the ADHD (managed by Focalin XR) combined w/ the pressure of being a new kid in school. (We moved to our new home about 6 months ago, new state new schools, etc...) DS missed about 5 weeks of school during the move. Wasn't supposed to be such a long break but life had other plans for us than the ones we made.
DS has always had a hard time w/ his handwriting. Teachers are concerned about that, DS starts showing signs of anxiety...So I take my DS to a clinic recommended by our developmental pediatrician. DS has started seeing a Clinical Social Worker (now known as Dr. S.) Dr. S did some evaluations to start w., my DS filled out some, I filled out some as did DH, school filled out some.
The results... DS is showing signs of low self-esteem, anxiety and depression. Not so much that Dr. S. wants to give him meds, but worrisome to say the least. He also thinks DS may have an LD. Possibly dysgraphia...what I've read on the subject strikes me as possible...also suggests possibility that DS has Asperger's! *sig* DS will continue w/ Dr. S. for a time as we try to figure out what DS needs to be a happier kid.
So here's the real venting:
My DS has always been a sensitive kid, but charming...lately, the last couple years (when I started worrying about anxiety and so on) he's started really being a whiner. He fusses and whines and throws tantrums like a 2 yr old! Just today at the store he threw himself down on the ground because I didn't want him to spend his allowance yet.
I know part of it's me, I can be too permissive, I need to work on my consistency (I'm ADHD too, makes life interesting...) I know I can be too soft. I don't like being mean...
But... that's not even what got me all flustered today.
DS's b-day was recently. His grandparents, my FIL and MIL, sent him a card and some money (which he was thrilled with) but in the card was a note. Basically it said, Grandson, we think you're pretty cool but... here's some advice, stop whining so much. You take the fun out of things when you do that. If you don't stop whining we won't give you any more b-day presents, this will be the last... we know you're a great kid, prove it.
Today I talked w/ FIL about this. He brought it up. "I mean it," he said, MIL agrees, as does my DH's Aunt. I talked w/ FIL about what DS is going through, about the ongoing evaluations. Gave him the website so he can learn about LDs and so on. He put it all back on me. Apparently I'm not tough enough, somehow something I did caused all this...etc.... at least that what he inferred, he didn't say it outright.
My DH talked with his dad, too. Put some of the "blame" on himself, and tried to take some pressure off of me. Even reminded his dad about how when he (my DH) was a kid he did things that frustated his parents w/ out being able to reason why.
I'm feeling a lot of stress right now. I've got two kids w/ different needs...sometimes, I think my Autistic son is actually easier to deal with...
My older DS frustrates me, I hate the whining. I can't stand seeing him when he's down on himself. He's starting to get bullied... some folks have said tht if my DS weren't so annoying he'd have more friends. DS does have some fun stuff in his life, he just started karate and he likes flag football. He has no close friends, no one to come over and play with him...of course we're still new here too...
I'm at a loss... I see troubled water ahead, some real white waters, and I my son is in a flimsy raft... I don't know how to help him. I feel annoyed and irate w/ him when he whines. I lose my temper, and then I feel guilty about it. I talk w/ him, and it doesn't work, he whines... he fusses... I know he has impulse problems, I know he's got a social and emotional delay...and yet where's my patience? I try the patient route and it doesn't work. I try the stern route and it doesn't work. He gets upset, tantrums, I get mad, he gets depressed and I get sad too... ARGH! It's like a crazy tea cup ride and it won't stop and let me get my bearings....
*whimper*
Ok, rant over...if you're still reading this...thanks....

 

[Ctsplaysinrain]

Coul dit be the Focalin making him extra whiney??? Oh and don't forget puberty...

 

[EllenFrasier]

Something that used to work with my son, is to record him. You can use a video camera or a regular tape recorder. Then once they have calmed down, let him hear himself. Sometimes kids do not realize how they are sounding. Don't make him think you did it to make fun of him, but rather as a teaching tool. Help him to find alternative ways of communicating that do not involve whining. Maybe right down what is bothering him, or draw a picture. Maybe tell him to go to his room until he is calm enough to talk without that tone of voice.

When any of my children used to whine, most of the time it was the younger ones, but I would tell them "I cannot understand what you are saying when you are whining like that"....sometimes it would work, sometimes it would make it worse because then they would yell. Never can tell what will work until you try it, right?

I would not let what your FIL said to you upset you. You know your child and you know what is going on. He's just looking in from the outside and doesn't see the day to day struggles. I have never heard of such a thing as putting a note like that in a birthday card. That's like saying "we won't love you anymore unless you stop whining".... I hope you didn't let your son see the note, and if he did hopefully he will just brush it off. Honestly.

 

[bookwormde]

What you describe is typical for a self adapting aspie child who has been "managed" with a ADHD diagnosis. With a sibling on the spectrum the probabilty that he has spectrum characteristics is very high. Forget everything you have been told about ADHD and read Attwood againgand see what that tells you. Often as a patnet of a spectrum child there is great difficulty in not trying to relate the 2 children. all our children are very different, even withing 1 family.

Take a step back and go through the list of characteritics and manefestations and as is true with the vast majority of ADHD kids there is more going on than just ADHD (if it is even a proper diagnosis, since high anxiety and a non linear EF system minic the symptoms of ADHD, except that our kids can focus on areas of interest to an exceptional extent).

bookwormde

 

[Brightsy]

What you describe is typical for a self adapting aspie child who has been "managed" with a ADHD diagnosis. With a sibling on the spectrum the probabilty that he has spectrum characteristics is very high. Forget everything you have been told about ADHD and read Attwood againgand see what that tells you. Often as a patnet of a spectrum child there is great difficulty in not trying to relate the 2 children. all our children are very different, even withing 1 family.

Take a step back and go through the list of characteritics and manefestations and as is true with the vast majority of ADHD kids there is more going on than just ADHD (if it is even a proper diagnosis, since high anxiety and a non linear EF system minic the symptoms of ADHD, except that our kids can focus on areas of interest to an exceptional extent).

bookwormde

Thanks for the advice bookwormde.
I know that his ADHD dx is accurate. I can speak to that from my own experience w/ ADHD. There's no doubt that the meds help him tremendously. I agree that there is more to his difficulties than the ADHD and I am pretty sure that Asperger's is the thing. I do think he's got the LD too... poor kid.
His ability to focus is not good, even on things that interest him. W/out meds he can't focus enough to get through a school day. The only thing he can focus on for any length of time is video games, and even then he tends to fidget a lot while playing. I mean a lot!
It just sucks, and sucks hard, that he's got all this stuff hitting him at once. I've suspected Asperger's for a time, but it's been tough getting that dx added on. The Dr. we're seeing now seems to be on top of things. So we'll see.
I just wish his grandparents would understand more.

Ellen, he did see the card. It doesn't seem to bother him too much. He seems to be aware that his whining is too much, but he can't seem to control his emotions very well. Many of his peers tell him he is really annoying and that bothers him. (As is should.) He knows he should try to control things, but it's super hard he says.
If I could insulate from the activities that causes the whinng I could. That's tough too. Everybody on Dhs side of the family like to go into the woods, for example, DS has a limited patience for that, and when his tolerance is up he starts whining. Same goes for anything he doesn't really want to do. He whines about this and that, and we all know all he wants to do is go play video games. It does take away from everyone's enjoyment. But he is awfully self-centered... I mean it's hard for him to see beyond his own self to realize that his behavior is detrimental to the atmosphere.
We always try to do things that he'll like, too, during visits. I try to use them a reward for him "putting up" with the forest hike (for example) so that everyong can be together and have fun.
*sigh* Sorry all, didn't mean to go on another ramble...

 

[Luv Bunnies]

Whining has always been a huge issue for my DS14 who has Asperger's. It's gotten better over years but we still deal with it. He whines during transitions when he isn't ready to give up what he's doing and move to something else. He whines about homework and getting up for school. He whines when he doesn't like the food at a restaurant. We have minimized the full-blown meltdowns but he still occasionally has a big one!

We took him to a psychologist who advised us to deal with one issue/situation at a time. The first thing we targeted was his whining and screaming when he had to get off the computer. We would give him a 5 minute warning so he knew it was coming. Then we would tell him it was time to stop and do homework, get in the car, etc. If he whined or screamed, we would reach over and turn the computer off. No negotiating, no 2nd chances, nothing. This taught him that behaving that way would never work. After he calmed down, we would have a talk about what he could have done differently. If he asked nicely for a few minutes to finish a game, we would allow him to do it if we had time (which we would usually build into our schedule).

It took some time but now, his transitions are much easier. He knows that if he asks nicely to finish a game that we will let him. If he whines or throws a fit, he won't win and he knows it.

It's too bad that your in-laws don't understand that your son can't just immediately control his outbursts. He can learn but it's not going to happen overnight. It will take patience and support from everyone in his life. Good luck!

 

[bookwormde]

Get a copy of "genius genes" by Michael Fitzgerald and Bredan O'Brian and let him read it, that should pick up his spirits.

Unfortunatley the same medications that help with hyperactivity also can compound issues with Aspergers, especially the anxiety related ones, especially post puberty, so it is always a balance.

boowkromde

 

[GraceLuvsWDW]

My dd is much younger (almost seven but going on 14 ). Anyway, I know it's a different circumstance but my family also has trouble being around dd due to her over-emotionality. She can swing to whiny and miserable in a heartbeat (and without apparent provocation) and this is very frustrating/confusing to people who are around who don't "get it". I try to ignore their eye rolling, huffing, and flat out meanness sometimes but it is hard and I have come to distance myself (and therefore dd) from those people. Short visits and when she goes into negative spin we're outta there!

As a parent it is soooooooo hard I know! I lose my patience too and we're just human so we're not perfect. I just try to remember to do the best I can and when I don't-well-I learn and grow from the experience. Our kids can be mixed blessings-oh so hard so much of the time due to their own suffering from sensory sensitivity, social frustrations and inadequacy, and emotional immaturity and other times brilliant and loving. Give yourself a break! You're doing a very hard job but you have to do it....and someday the work will pay off and it will be easier.

 

[deerhart]

managing anxiety is HORRID. My oldest (ADHD-HI, CAPD, MERLD) has horrible anxiety issues. He becomes really whinny (no tantrums though beyond typical 10yo slamming doors, stomping feet) and is always annoyed by younger bro (extravert, ADHD-HI or C). Odlest is introverted and a perfectionist which DOES NOT help.

Stimulants aren't appropriate for him but we are having some success with Intuniv (little less whinny etc..) stil has't stopped him from completely worrying or the anxiety rising (or the everything I do sucks lines) but its much better then before. He had been off meds for several years but the anxiety reared its ugly head AGAIN this year.

The stimulants would over time increase his anxiety levels and force us to a different one.

 

[Brightsy]

Small update:
We saw the Dr. last night.
He wants to do a couple more evaluations to try to pin point the LD we're dealing with.
After reviewing the evaluations we've done so far, and talking w/ S and his teachers and us the Dr. feels that Asperger's may not be the issue.
S doesn't meet a lot of the criteria for it.
So, on we go.

 

[kandb]

I hope you get answers from the doctors. I just wanted to say that I think that card your FIL sent your son was horrible. How dare he say this will be the last card if he doesn't change. Could this help your son's self esteem? Your son has special needs and if your FIL doesn't want to accept that, that's his problem. Good luck, Linda

 

[bookwormde]

It is funny when I hear doctors say that Aspergers may not be the issue but then focus on a characteritic of Aspergers. On the other side just saying that something is because of Aspergers is equally silly since without specifying the characteritics, maladaptions or manefestation(s) that are contibuting is next to worthless also, and many clinician are "guilty" of doing both.

bookwormde

 

[Schmeck]

My dd is much younger (almost seven but going on 14 ). Anyway, I know it's a different circumstance but my family also has trouble being around dd due to her over-emotionality. She can swing to whiny and miserable in a heartbeat (and without apparent provocation) and this is very frustrating/confusing to people who are around who don't "get it". I try to ignore their eye rolling, huffing, and flat out meanness sometimes but it is hard and I have come to distance myself (and therefore dd) from those people. Short visits and when she goes into negative spin we're outta there!

As a parent it is soooooooo hard I know! I lose my patience too and we're just human so we're not perfect. I just try to remember to do the best I can and when I don't-well-I learn and grow from the experience. Our kids can be mixed blessings-oh so hard so much of the time due to their own suffering from sensory sensitivity, social frustrations and inadequacy, and emotional immaturity and other times brilliant and loving. Give yourself a break! You're doing a very hard job but you have to do it....and someday the work will pay off and it will be easier.

Can I reflect this back to you - please consider giving the people who you are distancing yourself from a break as well, as you have stated, no one is perfect. You are only showing your daughter some really bad avoidance techniques. Of course no one 'gets' it all the time, but how can they, if avoidance is being practiced?

 

[Hasil72]

Sorry to interrupt, but Luv Bunnies and EllenFrasier, thanks for the ideas!!!! I want to try them with DS who is almost 11 and see how they work.

 

[jreed1920]

I don't know if you're familiar with the Incredible 5 point Scale but it is a technique for managing behavior, anxiety, etc. that I have found to be really helpful to use with my daugher with asd. http://www.5pointscale.com/ it really gives the child a tool to recognize and manage their feelings, anxiety levels and behaviors and makes it easier to come up with solutions that can be implemented in different situations and with different people without putting labels or negative language on the problem as it is happening. It is a good way to talk about the problem and involve the child in coming up with ways to help themselves manage through things.

At any rate, I am a big fan.