Would you be honest? Reference

[Lilacs4Me]

There's part of the problem right there. Your definition of "volunteer." In your OP you say this volunteer position requires certain criteria. But, then you don't back it up and hold her to that requirement, as, being a volunteer and not being paid, you CAN'T hold her to the criteria.

Sorry, many volunteer positions don't operate undee that kind of thought process. Many organizations depend on people showing up & committing, regardless of pay. You CAN ask and require people uphold a certain standard rules & requirements of being responsible and committing to sign up for shifts or a certain duration, showing up on time. Having the integrity to honor their word to come in when they say they will and staying for the whole time, doing the required work assigned. And if one cannot adhere to these rules and expectations, that this isn't the right "volunteer" kind of job for them and their needs, and they need to communicate to you, drop out of the program and find something more suited to their idea and amount of commitment (or not) for volunteerism.

There are whole organizations that would not be able to run and run successfully without structure and depending on people who agree to do what is expected of them when they commit. Rescue workers & first responders, like the Red Cross is 90% volunteers. If they need 30 volunteers to show up to a makeshift shelter and 20 volunteers don't show just because it's too cold and wet for them and they aren't being paid, that's not going to work.

Volunteer fire stations depend on the volunteer firefighters staying the whole shift and not going home 2 hours early as they are bored and they have something better to do.

It doesn't matter that YOUR organization is a youth sports league. You set up a volunteer system with certain responsibilities, expectation and level of commitment for the whole season. 3 of your sophomore coaches were amazing, so you did get that expectation across to some/most of them. I think you may have needed to really make the requirements known to all at the beginning, so they know the first day they all show up and can realize then, that this "volunteer" assignment is more than what they thought it would be and it isn't a good fit for them.

It may be that this girl thought she could just fluff her way through, drop in & out and only do what she wanted, when she wanted. Call it a day and then get the recommendation for college, which is probably why she "volunteered" in the first place. Make it clear next season, at the start, that someone who performs as she did, (you mention you get a few duds each year,) isn't going to get a recommendation. And that their work will be periodically evaluated so adjustments (on both ends) can be made throughout the season. You have a right to drop a volunteer from the program and replace her if they aren't doing what they committed to do and are continually a let down. It doesn't matter if it's a paid position or not. You need volunteers to fill certain slots and to show up and do the work when they say they will.

If she needed a volunteer position where she could come & go as she pleased, do as little work as she pleases, and only if she was able to work with her BFF, then she should have kindly been told to find that kind of volunteer project elsewhere. There are volunteer opportunities like that. They are just happy when people show up whenever and do whatever work they can or want to. They may have been able to give her a glowing recommendation for just showing up now and then, which you can't (and shouldn't) write for her.

If you write a good recommendation for this girl, then the ones you write for the girls who do deserve it, aren't worth the paper they are written on. And your word & recommendation isn't of any real value.

No, not a few duds each year....a few duds occassionally in the 8 years ive been involved at whatever level at that time. It happens - you think you have someone good, and they turn out not so great.

Thank you for answering the question...

If you write a good recommendation for this girl, then the ones you write for the girls who do deserve it, aren't worth the paper they are written on. And your word & recommendation isn't of any real value

I'm not going to get into how or what we do as a league to convey the expectations and how we mentor the teen coaches because thats not what I'm asking about in the post and it's already been derailed enough. We can start a spin-off thread on that if you want! But I will add a note in my OP that yes, she was talked to before and during the season and the expectations were outlined.

Thanks!

 

[Lilacs4Me]

I am writing to you regarding a reference for Tina Tomlinson. I can honestly say that no volunteer was better than Tina.

Haha, I feel like there's a joke there but I'm not getting it!

 

[Lilacs4Me]

I can't speak to volunteer organizations and references. I was on a Little League board for 8 years and was never asked.
Out in the working world, at my place and my wife's, we are prohibited from giving references for anyone we worked with.
All calls go to HR. And now at my place, corporate has hired an outside company to handle that. That company only has information on your salary, and when you worked for the company. And even then, they will only answer yes and no to questions. So the person calling has to have the salary information and time of employment information, the outside firm will only confirm, or deny if it is correct.

I think I would just tell her you aren't comfortable being a reference.

What??!

 

[Lilacs4Me]

I have had less than stellar students ask for references and I have still written them. They may not be the lengthy glowing kind, but I always think they deserve a shot somewhere else. Maybe they didn't like my team/class/club? Maybe they didn't like me? Maybe it was a tough year? Who knows! But I want to give them a chance to be either someone else's star or someone else's problem.

That's kind of what I was thinking, too, but my second thought was, how is that really good for them? Or does it not even matter!

 

[design_mom]

Haha, I feel like there's a joke there but I'm not getting it!

I got it. "No volunteer is better than Tina" sounds like a compliment but could also mean "we'd rather go without a volunteer than be stuck with Tina."

 

[Disney Doll]

Don't write it. A 17-18 year old should know about honoring commitments,whether volunteer or not.

And when you tell her no, if she asks you, I'd be honest with her as to why. It sounds to me as if your organization makes their expectations clear if kids younger than her were able to fulfill them.

 

[mco65]

no letter of recommendation and explain why. She will thumb her nose at you and go get one from somewhere else but if she is a sweet girl like you say, somewhere in the back of her mind, she will get the message and do better the next time..

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

I'm not going to get into how or what we do as a league to convey the expectations and how we mentor the teen coaches because thats not what I'm asking about in the post and it's already been derailed enough. We can start a spin-off thread on that if you want! But I will add a note in my OP that yes, she was talked to before and during the season and the expectations were outlined.

Thanks!

And she continued to flake out, I'd decline.

 

[MarBee]

I am a Exec VP and coach of a youth sports league where we use high school kids as Jr./demo coaches to the kids. This is a volunteer position that requires about 10 hours a week dedication for a minimum of 3 1/2 months. We have our share of kids who are "all in" and dedicated, and sometimes a few duds....kids who thought it sounded fun but didnt realize the time commitment, etc.

One of my "duds" emailed me the other day asking if i would be a reference for her - she is headed to college this fall and is hoping to work in the child care center on her campus. She's a sweet girl, but really! She honestly was terrible as a Jr. Coach.

She didn't show up to most of the practices, never came to the games esp if they were away games, and didn't show up for the end of year party or help with anything else during the season. She basically threw together a plan the week before the biggest team competition of the season and made it to a Saturday practice that we scheduled based on her promise that she would be there.

Her communication with her adult coach sucked (not that *that* was totally her fault, by any means!), she refused to take her own team because she wanted to jr coach with her BFF, even though we asked them, as the seniors, to each take the lead role of separate teams, and it took until the last possible minute and me threatening her she wouldn't be registered with the league to finally get her paperwork.

My 3 Sophomore coaches were amazing, each leading a team when this girl refused. They were there whenever we needed them, and went above and beyond for the girls on their team. I wrote a very complimentary, glowing reference for one of those girls for a job this past winter. So I'm not opposed to helping and singing their praises!

WWYD? Just write a basic reference and leave it at that, or respond back to her with the reasons why I don't feel I would be a good choice to give her a positive reference? Or just give her my contact info and be honest with the employer if/when they ever call?

ETA: many responders are concerned that this girl didn't understand the expectations of the volunteer position before committing or during the season. We do our best to outline exactly what we need from our volunteers when they sign up, and I can assure you, she knew what was expected.

I would simply reply back that you probably wouldn't be the best reference, but you wish her the best of luck. Keep it simple.

 

[Mokat76]

she was young, give her a break, and lie

Seriously? I hope you're kidding here.

OP, no recommendation and tell her why. The "young" part above was and is true. Now's a good time to teach her that actions have consequences.

 

[Albort]

heh, probably a bad opinion but why not do what she does best and flake out on writing it... :]

imo, i probably just write a general one.

 

[ronandannette]

...Thank you for answering the question...

If you write a good recommendation for this girl, then the ones you write for the girls who do deserve it, aren't worth the paper they are written on. And your word & recommendation isn't of any real value

I'm not going to get into how or what we do as a league to convey the expectations and how we mentor the teen coaches because thats not what I'm asking about in the post and it's already been derailed enough. We can start a spin-off thread on that if you want! But I will add a note in my OP that yes, she was talked to before and during the season and the expectations were outlined.

Thanks!

OK then - straight to the point without commentary, to answer the question in your thread title: Yes, be honest. Always be honest. Maybe next time add a poll "Should I be Honest?" with the options Yes or No.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

OK then - straight to the point without commentary, to answer the question in your thread title: Yes, be honest. Always be honest. Maybe next time add a poll "Should I be Honest?" with the options Yes or No.

Thanks!

 

[Wishing on a star]

I also disagree that the fact that this was technically a 'volunteer' position and therefore requires no priority or commitment.
I can say that I am a 'Volunteer Fireman', but if I don't ever show up to any fire calls... am I really.
No, if you don't show up, you haven't voluntarily done anything!

Should I be able to expect a positive reference if I am then applying for a position with a local Fire Department.
I really, really, really, do not think so.

IMHO, just because this girl was, supposedly a 'volunteer', and is claiming to have volunteered does not, in any way, mean that a reference, especially a positive one, is required.

 

[Wishing on a star]

OP: I have another very specific suggestion...
Personally, I would probably just decline to provide a reference.
But, another option would be to actually write up a VERY specific reference... and just hand it to her.
She could chose to forward the reference or not.
VERY RUDE!!!!, yes... But sometimes black and white facts and realities are what they are.

I would never lie.
I would never mislead.
Honesty is a huge thing for me.
I would be honest, or just decline.

Ex:
Mary Jane was signed on as a volunteer coach during the 2016/2017 season, dates xx/xx/xx thru xx/xx/xx.
During this time, we had xx practices, xx games, and xx events. A total of xxx.
Mary Jane attended and volunteered at x of these scheduled activities.

Sincerely,

 

[tvguy]

What??!

???

 

[Wendy31]

OP: I have another very specific suggestion...
Personally, I would probably just decline to provide a reference.
But, another option would be to actually write up a VERY specific reference... and just hand it to her.
She could chose to forward the reference or not.
VERY RUDE!!!!, yes... But sometimes black and white facts and realities are what they are.

I would never lie.
I would never mislead.
Honesty is a huge thing for me.
I would be honest, or just decline.

Ex:
Mary Jane was signed on as a volunteer coach during the 2016/2017 season, dates xx/xx/xx thru xx/xx/xx.
During this time, we had xx practices, xx games, and xx events. A total of xxx.
Mary Jane attended and volunteered at x of these scheduled activities.

Sincerely,

I would offer to write a reference like the above - basically just stating that she was a registered volunteer w/ your organization for the specific season.

I would also explain to the girl that, since that her actual volunteer hours were very limited, you are unable to provide a reference that details any skills and/or abilities. I wouldn't be harsh or unkind though.

 

[DawnM]

I have to write a lot of recommendation letters and sometimes I just write the few good things I see in a person and what they have done that is positive. But my situation is a bit different, writing recommendation letters is part of my job and I can't refuse.

However, given your situation, I would either just decline or ask her what she thinks you should say.....throw it back at her and see if she comes up with something she thinks she did well.

 

[Skywalker]

Tough one because speaking from experience, people who "flake out" on things a lot are not necessarily jerks, she could have meant well but been dealing with issues like depression, anxiety, insecurity, etc. So I am not going to say she is some kind of bad person, however, when it comes to the reference, the fact is you can't really give her a good one. I would be honest with her though, and say that due to the issues you had with her during that time, you can't in good conscience give her a good reference. Simple and done. That's all I would say and if she is clueless as to what you mean, go over with it her again. But no way would I give a good reference to someone that let me down, that defeats the whole purpose of references.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

A letter of recommendation is just that - a letter saying you would recommend hiring that person (or admitting them into a college, etc.). If you cannot, in good conscience, recommend this person based upon her performance in your organization, then you need to tell her you cannot write it. She might need to do another volunteer stint or job elsewhere and try to do better this time. I think it would do her a disservice to give her a glowing review if she doesn't deserve it. If she asks why you won't write it, tell her the truth. You expect more effort from everyone in your organization, including volunteers.

I once worked with a substitute teacher for about six weeks (I'm a teaching assistant). She was my worst nightmare as a teacher! I seriously think she was certifiably insane. The other classroom assistant and I spent most of our time keeping her away from our special needs preschool kids. We documented every weird thing she did and said and visited the principal's office nearly every day. The administration finally took us seriously and got rid of her. A few weeks later, this woman called me and asked if she could put me down as a reference on several job applications. I told her no, I won't able to do that. She simply said, "OK thanks," and we ended the conversation. I think she knew why I said no and she didn't question it.