Zebras removed from Kilimanjaro Safaris

[baler31]

Not likely..... Just because of the history of those Disney deals.

When the parks first opened in 1971, There wasn't a lot of hotel rooms in the area for people coming into Central Florida to visit the parks. Disney leased out the land for the hotels on Hotel Blvd with the understanding that at time the Poly, Contemporary, and Disney Inn wouldn't meet the demand for beds at the park, and they weren't in a place or have the desire to build more hotel rooms themselves.


The Swan/Dolphin story is a little different, and there is some conflicting information/stories out there when it comes to the details. But in essense, it's part of the holdover from the earlier Disney thought process of their not wanting to be in the hotel business (ala, hotel Blvd.).

The 2 most popular stories I've heard are that a developer/contractor involved in the EPCOT construction, as part of their deal/compensation also received the ability to build hotels on Disney property...... OR.... As part of the Original deal that brought us the hotels on hotel BLVD, The developer involved in those hotels believed they had the exclusive rights to further Disney hotels.

In either version, It was Eisner's coming to the company in the mid 80's which ended up changing things on the hotel front. Basically.... He saw all the money the company was losing by not being more involved in lodging the visitors to the resort, and wanted to become much more involved in becoming a one-stop-shop [the precurser to the Disney Decade]. I've also read where he wanted to build a convention hotel to attract non-theme park guests to the resort during the offpeak times (and that this convention part was what prompted the disagreement between Disney and the Developer).

Ultimately, As either part of the previous Grandfathered deal prior to a buy-out [allowing Disney to develop their own onsite hotels].... Or a settlement with the developer [allowing him to build/own 2 hotels in a prime location in the center of the property in exchange for reliquishing the rights to allow Disney to build/control their own hotels onsite]... The Swan and Dolphin came to be. Disney still owns the property, but the hotels are owned independantly and have a 99yr lease of the property they sit upon.

You need to remember, the Swan/Dolphin are some of the oldest properties onsite.... With only the Poly, Contemporary, Shade of Green (The Disney Inn/The Golf Resort), and Ft. Wilderness predating them. I believe the Grand Floridian opened shortly after them, although GF may have been opened around the same time or shortly before. I remember GF was late 80s, but i'm bit fuzzy off the top of my head on the exact timeframe of the hotel openings.



For Universal/Lowes, It's much closer to the original Hotel Blvd deal. When Universal expanded from a single park to the 2 parks, citywalk, and onsite hotels in the late 90's, They were not interested in also getting into the hotel business. So their onsite hotels were built from scratch in a deal with the outside company. It's a partnership that both companies actively partipate in and benefit from.


The Four Seasons is like none of these previous deals. Disney sold off the land so the Four Seasons can build their own hotel. For all intents and purposes, the partnership between the Four Seasons and Disney is no deeper than Disney's existing VIP sales/tour channels. There might be a few extra "perks" which the Four Seasons guests may get compared to other offsite location guests ( such as emh or room package delivery), But this would be because the Four Seasons would be paying Disney large amounts of $$$ on a regular basis to secure these deals. Not because they are considered a Disney resort guest.




But Disney isn't really catering to the affluent "sophisticated" type that the Four Seasons is servicing. The four Seasons are the ones catering to them and their needs and desires. Those people just want to experience Disney, just like everyone else.

With the GF and Poly DVC.... I'm also not entirely sure you can say they are successfully catering outside of the "people of Walmart". they are both "more of the same" when it comes to what they are offering.... DVC membership. Compared to rack rates, DVC is a pretty good deal.....think of it as the Sam's Club version..... You are still dealing with Walmart, but you are buying the same items you get with Walmart, only in bulk. More Expensive than the cheaper walmart stuff.... put a cheaper "per unit" cost.

Even then... DVC is starting to potentially price itself out of being able to get new retail sales using their existing tactics to all but the ignorant masses (which... well... people of walmart . com . ).

We stayed at GF in 1988 shortly after it opened. Swan/Dolphin opened in the summer of 1990.

 

[doconeill]

We stayed at GF in 1988 shortly after it opened. Swan/Dolphin opened in the summer of 1990.

The Swan opened in January of 1990 - Dolphin followed in July. GF opened in July of 1988.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

caribbean also pre-dates the swan and dolphin...though from accounts eisner really thought the arrangement of the swan and dolphin would be the "wave of the future"

disney just didn't find the arrangement palatable once it was in place.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

Not likely..... Just because of the history of those Disney deals.

When the parks first opened in 1971, There wasn't a lot of hotel rooms in the area for people coming into Central Florida to visit the parks. Disney leased out the land for the hotels on Hotel Blvd with the understanding that at time the Poly, Contemporary, and Disney Inn wouldn't meet the demand for beds at the park, and they weren't in a place or have the desire to build more hotel rooms themselves.


The Swan/Dolphin story is a little different, and there is some conflicting information/stories out there when it comes to the details. But in essense, it's part of the holdover from the earlier Disney thought process of their not wanting to be in the hotel business (ala, hotel Blvd.).

The 2 most popular stories I've heard are that a developer/contractor involved in the EPCOT construction, as part of their deal/compensation also received the ability to build hotels on Disney property...... OR.... As part of the Original deal that brought us the hotels on hotel BLVD, The developer involved in those hotels believed they had the exclusive rights to further Disney hotels.

In either version, It was Eisner's coming to the company in the mid 80's which ended up changing things on the hotel front. Basically.... He saw all the money the company was losing by not being more involved in lodging the visitors to the resort, and wanted to become much more involved in becoming a one-stop-shop [the precurser to the Disney Decade]. I've also read where he wanted to build a convention hotel to attract non-theme park guests to the resort during the offpeak times (and that this convention part was what prompted the disagreement between Disney and the Developer).

Ultimately, As either part of the previous Grandfathered deal prior to a buy-out [allowing Disney to develop their own onsite hotels].... Or a settlement with the developer [allowing him to build/own 2 hotels in a prime location in the center of the property in exchange for reliquishing the rights to allow Disney to build/control their own hotels onsite]... The Swan and Dolphin came to be. Disney still owns the property, but the hotels are owned independantly and have a 99yr lease of the property they sit upon.

You need to remember, the Swan/Dolphin are some of the oldest properties onsite.... With only the Poly, Contemporary, Shade of Green (The Disney Inn/The Golf Resort), and Ft. Wilderness predating them. I believe the Grand Floridian opened shortly after them, although GF may have been opened around the same time or shortly before. I remember GF was late 80s, but i'm bit fuzzy off the top of my head on the exact timeframe of the hotel openings.



For Universal/Lowes, It's much closer to the original Hotel Blvd deal. When Universal expanded from a single park to the 2 parks, citywalk, and onsite hotels in the late 90's, They were not interested in also getting into the hotel business. So their onsite hotels were built from scratch in a deal with the outside company. It's a partnership that both companies actively partipate in and benefit from.


The Four Seasons is like none of these previous deals. Disney sold off the land so the Four Seasons can build their own hotel. For all intents and purposes, the partnership between the Four Seasons and Disney is no deeper than Disney's existing VIP sales/tour channels. There might be a few extra "perks" which the Four Seasons guests may get compared to other offsite location guests ( such as emh or room package delivery), But this would be because the Four Seasons would be paying Disney large amounts of $$$ on a regular basis to secure these deals. Not because they are considered a Disney resort guest.




But Disney isn't really catering to the affluent "sophisticated" type that the Four Seasons is servicing. The four Seasons are the ones catering to them and their needs and desires. Those people just want to experience Disney, just like everyone else.

With the GF and Poly DVC.... I'm also not entirely sure you can say they are successfully catering outside of the "people of Walmart". they are both "more of the same" when it comes to what they are offering.... DVC membership. Compared to rack rates, DVC is a pretty good deal.....think of it as the Sam's Club version..... You are still dealing with Walmart, but you are buying the same items you get with Walmart, only in bulk. More Expensive than the cheaper walmart stuff.... put a cheaper "per unit" cost.

Even then... DVC is starting to potentially price itself out of being able to get new retail sales using their existing tactics to all but the ignorant masses (which... well... people of walmart . com . ).

~Wow! DCTooTall, your post is amazing, it just oozes with intellect! I appreciate you sharing the history regarding the development of the Swan & Dolphin, Four Seasons and other projects -- it's very interesting. I kind of have mixed feelings about the Four Seasons -- I was looking forward to Disney's Four Seasons instead of Four Seasons that happens to be at Disney. Based on the agreement, I don't think the Four Seasons will participate in Magical Express, which I just adore! I never have to deal with luggage again once I board the plane, it's priceless, lol. I'm also concerned about EMH, I'll manage without ME but no EMH could be a deal breaker. We'll see.

~I am not familiar with DVC, at all. I don't understand the whole "points" thing. But, regarding your assessment of GF DVC and the rumored Poly DVC, if I'm grasping the gist of this correctly -- it appears that you are in agreement with the pirate. Disney is marketing their idea of deluxe accommodations in a wholesale value package that can be acquired simply through installments or a structured payment plan -- by your accounts this will appeal to the masses who would not otherwise be able to afford such accommodations. Gosh, I really hadn't thought of it, in that way. But, after having read this, how could I not? It's definitely an eye opener for me.

 

[DCTooTall]

We stayed at GF in 1988 shortly after it opened. Swan/Dolphin opened in the summer of 1990.

The Swan opened in January of 1990 - Dolphin followed in July. GF opened in July of 1988.

caribbean also pre-dates the swan and dolphin...though from accounts eisner really thought the arrangement of the swan and dolphin would be the "wave of the future"

disney just didn't find the arrangement palatable once it was in place.

Fair enough. Again, I wasn't sure of the exact dates, but I did remember the Swalphin were some of the earliest new hotels to open during the hotel building boom of the late 80's and 90's.

GF probably got a bit of a head-start construction wise since the plot was ready'd for a hotel from the intitial MK construction [The Asian hotel].... but I could also see based off the timeframe and delays the possibility that the lawsuit story could be correct. Factor in the time from Disney deciding to build new hotels, and the lawsuit challenges, the settlement, and then the construction of the Swalphin, It becomes easy to see the 2 year difference between GF opening and the Swalphin opening.

~I am not familiar with DVC, at all. I don't understand the whole "points" thing. But, regarding your assessment of GF DVC and the rumored Poly DVC, if I'm grasping the gist of this correctly -- it appears that you are in agreement with the pirate. Disney is marketing their idea of deluxe accommodations in a wholesale value package that can be acquired simply through installments or a structured payment plan -- by your accounts this will appeal to the masses who would not otherwise be able to afford such accommodations. Gosh, I really hadn't thought of it, in that way. But, after having read this, how could I not? It's definitely an eye opener for me.

The people on the DVC board could tell you in more detail, but basically, When you purchase DVC points, You are buying an allotment of points that can then be spent/redeemed [think credit card or loyalty reward type points] towards DVC Accomodations. Disney does these on a lease type deal, so after purchase, you are given an annual allotment of points until the contract expiration date some time in the future (Depends upon the DVC resort you purchase, but i think the earliest expiration is currently sometime around 2045 although I may be wrong).

On top of the initial purchase price, You also pay an annual "maintenance fee" to help maintain the resort. This fee helps cover the costs such as housekeeping, repair, power, staffing, and the replacement every so often of the room furnishings as they wear out or break. It also covers a "mangement fee" Disney charges the resort. Ultimately, this annual fee is determined by taking the annual budget of the resort and then breaking it among all the owners.

Sooooo..... The DVC Sales spiel? in a nutshell??

"Would you like to stay in a deluxe level resort? How much would that cost you? $300 a night? for a week? that would be $2100. How much would that room cost you for that same week in 10 years? or 20 years? If you do it every year? with increasing room rates? You could EASILY spend over $60,000 over those 20 years to stay in a deluxe resort here. What if I told you that there was a way you could stay in deluxe accomodations at disney for the next 30 years and only pay me $50,000 today?"

Then add in the Annual dues, the finance charges, etc etc etc. DVC can make financial sense, but it's a huge financial outlay up front, and requires some serious number crunching to determine if it's a good fit for your vacation needs. (Resale is also a much better option). If you are seriously interested in checking it out though, I'd recommend checking out the DVC forums on the DIS and things such as the "Opportunity Cost" calculations to compare the REAL costs of your DVC purchase.

[disclaimer... I don't own DVC, so I can't really give you any real numbers or information the plan..... but I do own other timeshare systems and am familiar with a lot of the basic concepts.]

 

[doconeill]

"Would you like to stay in a deluxe level resort? How much would that cost you? $300 a night? for a week? that would be $2100. How much would that room cost you for that same week in 10 years? or 20 years? If you do it every year? with increasing room rates? You could EASILY spend over $60,000 over those 20 years to stay in a deluxe resort here. What if I told you that there was a way you could stay in deluxe accomodations at disney for the next 30 years and only pay me $50,000 today?"

Sorry, but in the interest of correct information, these numbers are WAY off. It is nowhere near $50k up front to buy in, even at today's point prices.

To compare apples to apples, a studio at BLT, at the most expensive season, with a Magic Kingdom view, which I believe is the most expensive DVC studio on property, is 241 points for a week. I think points for BLT are somewhere around $130 direct from Disney, so for that particular amount, that's $31,330. And that get's you 241 points a year until 2060 (in the case of BLT), so in the end you're talking about $666.60 for a week for each year, not counting dues and taxes.

Dues are paid annually based on number of points. BLT is actually one of if not the cheapest, last I knew at $4.50/point, so a little more than $1k this year. So now we're talking a bit more than $1700 for the week this year at least, still a bargain over $2100, and I think $300/night is for the cheapest season. Looking at the week of Christmas, prime time for both DVC and standard, a theme park view room goes for over $800/night, so now we're talking about $5,600 for the week.

Dues can go up, so you have to take it into account. It's variable, but typically seems to be around 3-4%/year.

And of course, the points system is flexible. You can stay any time of year, as long as you have the points. And you can stay at any DVC resort, so you can stay at some that cost less points, at cheaper times, etc.

Just wanted to bring more direct numbers to the table.

Why I'm discussing this on a thread about Zebras, I have no idea...

 

[DCTooTall]

Sorry, but in the interest of correct information, these numbers are WAY off. It is nowhere near $50k up front to buy in, even at today's point prices.

To compare apples to apples, a studio at BLT, at the most expensive season, with a Magic Kingdom view, which I believe is the most expensive DVC studio on property, is 241 points for a week. I think points for BLT are somewhere around $130 direct from Disney, so for that particular amount, that's $31,330. And that get's you 241 points a year until 2060 (in the case of BLT), so in the end you're talking about $666.60 for a week for each year, not counting dues and taxes.

Dues are paid annually based on number of points. BLT is actually one of if not the cheapest, last I knew at $4.50/point, so a little more than $1k this year. So now we're talking a bit more than $1700 for the week this year at least, still a bargain over $2100, and I think $300/night is for the cheapest season. Looking at the week of Christmas, prime time for both DVC and standard, a theme park view room goes for over $800/night, so now we're talking about $5,600 for the week.

Dues can go up, so you have to take it into account. It's variable, but typically seems to be around 3-4%/year.

And of course, the points system is flexible. You can stay any time of year, as long as you have the points. And you can stay at any DVC resort, so you can stay at some that cost less points, at cheaper times, etc.

Just wanted to bring more direct numbers to the table.

Why I'm discussing this on a thread about Zebras, I have no idea...

Maybe because you are the Referee calling a foul on my incorrect "pulled-from-my-a$$" numbers?

 

[doconeill]

Maybe because you are the Referee calling a foul on my incorrect "pulled-from-my-a$$" numbers?

Into the penalty box. Next to the zebra.

 

[mcd2745]

Into the penalty box. Next to the zebra.

Aren't the zebras the ones who send you to the penalty box?

Now I'm really confused!

 

[doconeill]

Aren't the zebras the ones who send you to the penalty box?

Now I'm really confused!

Not the really, really bad ones.

 

[DCTooTall]

Not the really, really bad ones.

Naaa.....

the REALLY REALLY bad ones miss the call entirely and don't send anyone to the Penalty Box.

 

[jade1]

Why I'm discussing this on a thread about Zebras, I have no idea...

HaHa-just came back to this thread-hilarious.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

The people on the DVC board could tell you in more detail, but basically, When you purchase DVC points, You are buying an allotment of points that can then be spent/redeemed [think credit card or loyalty reward type points] towards DVC Accomodations. Disney does these on a lease type deal, so after purchase, you are given an annual allotment of points until the contract expiration date some time in the future (Depends upon the DVC resort you purchase, but i think the earliest expiration is currently sometime around 2045 although I may be wrong).

On top of the initial purchase price, You also pay an annual "maintenance fee" to help maintain the resort. This fee helps cover the costs such as housekeeping, repair, power, staffing, and the replacement every so often of the room furnishings as they wear out or break. It also covers a "mangement fee" Disney charges the resort. Ultimately, this annual fee is determined by taking the annual budget of the resort and then breaking it among all the owners.

Sooooo..... The DVC Sales spiel? in a nutshell??

"Would you like to stay in a deluxe level resort? How much would that cost you? $300 a night? for a week? that would be $2100. How much would that room cost you for that same week in 10 years? or 20 years? If you do it every year? with increasing room rates? You could EASILY spend over $60,000 over those 20 years to stay in a deluxe resort here. What if I told you that there was a way you could stay in deluxe accomodations at disney for the next 30 years and only pay me $50,000 today?"

Then add in the Annual dues, the finance charges, etc etc etc. DVC can make financial sense, but it's a huge financial outlay up front, and requires some serious number crunching to determine if it's a good fit for your vacation needs. (Resale is also a much better option). If you are seriously interested in checking it out though, I'd recommend checking out the DVC forums on the DIS and things such as the "Opportunity Cost" calculations to compare the REAL costs of your DVC purchase.

[disclaimer... I don't own DVC, so I can't really give you any real numbers or information the plan..... but I do own other timeshare systems and am familiar with a lot of the basic concepts.]

~DCTooTall, thanks for clarifying -- this isn't for me at all. I remember when I went to Vegas, and just happened to stop in a casino on the corner off the strip to play the slots. Well first off, I couldn't find an unoccupied slot machine -- everyone had two and three machines for themselves. I finally found one machine in the corner that no one apparently wanted -- anyway, this slot machine lit up with music & lights the moment I started playing, I was winning nonstop and getting lots of looks. So here comes a women in a pantsuit holding a clipboard -- I thought I was going to get comped by the casino or something -- but no, it was the timeshare woman -- and yes, my slot machine went cold, which should have been a sign. Long story short, it was a timeshare that claimed to be on the strip, but it was actually off the strip. Everyone there was my grandparents age and I thought I would never get out of that presentation alive -- it took the entire day. I guess I am jaded for life, because I have never been to another one. My family has offsite Florida timeshares that I won't use, but they swear by them -- it's just not for me.

 

[dunnhorn]

We stayed in a savannah view 2br at AKV over President's day weekend. We were sitting on our balcony, enjoying the wonderful view when we saw three zebras get in a HUGE fight. They were screaming at each other, kicking and biting each other - clearly not happy. One was injured and was whining... within 30 seconds of the melee, the golf cart with 2 naturalists came out and broke them up, and administered first aid to the injured zebra. We were shocked to have seen the whole thing unfold.

This announcement makes sense. Sad as I am to see them displaced, the LAST thing the animals need is to have a ride going on around them... then, of course from a liability standpoint it is just not good to have angry animals running around that close to guests. You just never know what could happen if an animal gets ticket enough.

Here's hoping the zebras become better acclimated and are able to enjoy their new home.

 

[dunnhorn]

I'm staying at BLT for 8 nights next month...if i divide it out and figure out a little algorithm to estimate my real costs for that stay based on my 2005 purchase price...and then compare it to rack...all i can think of to say to everyone not in DVC is "HHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHA!!! "

We just stayed 1 night at Beach club last Saturday night in a 2 bedroom. Granted, it was a Saturday night (when the points are higher) but we paid 55 points. On the market, at $10 - 11 points per night, this would be between $550 - $600. We took our neighbors with us, so there were 8 of us in a two bedroom.

Our neighbors LOVE beach club. They had stayed there 5 nights a couple years ago in a regular hotel room and paid $400 per night RACK. They said that the 2nd bedroom of this 2 bedroom was bigger than that $400/night room they had a couple years ago.

Our neighbor says every time they go to DVC with us, they are tempted to buy in.

The bottom line is - it's a good deal only if you are willing to commit to vacation at Disney fairly frequently over the span of 8-10 years, AND you would never be satisfied staying at a value. If you are a value/commando type - you won't get it. Also, if you like maid service every day, you might not enjoy it. I have a friend who really dislikes it because of the lack of maid service (and they don't want to pay for extra maid service.) SO - you know, it depends on your frame of reference.

For us, I believe they are the best purchases we have ever made... and yes purchases is plural. We own like 6 contracts, and each one ranges in price from $2500 to... well I won't talk about the higher end ones.

 

[dunnhorn]

I'm staying at BLT for 8 nights next month...if i divide it out and figure out a little algorithm to estimate my real costs for that stay based on my 2005 purchase price...and then compare it to rack...all i can think of to say to everyone not in DVC is "HHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHA!!! "

We just stayed 1 night at Beach club last Saturday night in a 2 bedroom. Granted, it was a Saturday night (when the points are higher) but we paid 55 points. On the market, at $10 - 11 points per night, this would be between $550 - $600. We took our neighbors with us, so there were 8 of us in a two bedroom.

Our neighbors LOVE beach club. They had stayed there 5 nights a couple years ago in a regular hotel room and paid $400 per night RACK. They said that the 2nd bedroom of this 2 bedroom was bigger than that $400/night room they had a couple years ago.

Our neighbor says every time they go to DVC with us, they are tempted to buy in.

The bottom line is - it's a good deal only if you are willing to commit to vacation at Disney fairly frequently over the span of 8-10 years, AND you would never be satisfied staying at a value. If you are a value/commando type - you won't get it. Also, if you like maid service every day, you might not enjoy it. I have a friend who really dislikes DVC because of the lack of maid service (and they don't want to pay for extra maid service.) SO - you know, it depends on your frame of reference.

For us, I believe they are the best purchases we have ever made... and yes purchases is plural. We own like 6 contracts, and each one ranges in price from $2500 to... well I won't talk about the higher end ones. But just goes to show that you don't need $50,000 to buy into DVC. You can find a resale contract for $2500, $3500 or even $5,000 and then once you are a "member" you can buy contracts of 25 point minimum from any resort. The resale contracts will have limitations on the points, but the points you purchase directly from Disney will have no limitations. If you buy as a new member directly from Disney, there is a much higher minimum - I believe 160 points or $17,500 or something like that. But if you want DVC on the cheap, the best way is to get the smallest resale contract you can get to get your foot in the door, and then buy add on contracts directly from Disney that have no limitations.

But this is how to do DVC on the cheap. If you want to do Disney on the cheap, then continue to stay at All Star on the off season times... in the long run it will likely be cheaper than going DVC, but you won't be staying in a deluxe for the price of a moderate over the long term.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

We just stayed 1 night at Beach club last Saturday night in a 2 bedroom. Granted, it was a Saturday night (when the points are higher) but we paid 55 points. On the market, at $10 - 11 points per night, this would be between $550 - $600. We took our neighbors with us, so there were 8 of us in a two bedroom.

Our neighbors LOVE beach club. They had stayed there 5 nights a couple years ago in a regular hotel room and paid $400 per night RACK. They said that the 2nd bedroom of this 2 bedroom was bigger than that $400/night room they had a couple years ago.

Our neighbor says every time they go to DVC with us, they are tempted to buy in.

The bottom line is - it's a good deal only if you are willing to commit to vacation at Disney fairly frequently over the span of 8-10 years, AND you would never be satisfied staying at a value. If you are a value/commando type - you won't get it. Also, if you like maid service every day, you might not enjoy it. I have a friend who really dislikes DVC because of the lack of maid service (and they don't want to pay for extra maid service.) SO - you know, it depends on your frame of reference.

For us, I believe they are the best purchases we have ever made... and yes purchases is plural. We own like 6 contracts, and each one ranges in price from $2500 to... well I won't talk about the higher end ones. But just goes to show that you don't need $50,000 to buy into DVC. You can find a resale contract for $2500, $3500 or even $5,000 and then once you are a "member" you can buy contracts of 25 point minimum from any resort. The resale contracts will have limitations on the points, but the points you purchase directly from Disney will have no limitations. If you buy as a new member directly from Disney, there is a much higher minimum - I believe 160 points or $17,500 or something like that. But if you want DVC on the cheap, the best way is to get the smallest resale contract you can get to get your foot in the door, and then buy add on contracts directly from Disney that have no limitations.

But this is how to do DVC on the cheap. If you want to do Disney on the cheap, then continue to stay at All Star on the off season times... in the long run it will likely be cheaper than going DVC, but you won't be staying in a deluxe for the price of a moderate over the long term.

No offense intended but why didn't you just buy a real place in Celebration?

 

[dunnhorn]

No offense intended but why didn't you just buy a real place in Celebration?

No offense taken at all... in fact we looked at buying a condo in Orlando (a new construction near Celebration, as a matter of fact) before diving into DVC.

In the end, we decided not to do the condo for personal reasons. In my family, my father has accumulated number of beachfront condos in St. Pete and my sister has accumulated a couple of cabins in the north Georgia mountains. In addition - my dad rents condos for a number of other owners, and my sister rents cabins for several more cabin owners. These second, third, fourth (and so on) properties are their second jobs. As a practical matter, with two young elementary school kids and a full time job and a number of part time jobs on top of that (and my husband with a full time job) I didn't want that kind of other second (or third? fourth?) job.

We already had a second home exemption and with our current tax situation another piece of property wouldn't have helped us with Uncle Sam (unfortunately.) This was from three different advisers, so we sought second and third opinions on this. So, from a TAX position, having a condo down there would not have been helpful. Then why have the condo? An appreciable asset? Sure, but there is no guarantee that the asset would appreciate - we have seen many landowners in Florida lose a ton of equity over the past 5 years. I suppose over time, over 10 years it would likely appreciate - but I don't think I would have wanted to have put that many eggs in a basket. With DVC, there was a capital outlay - but we could get that money back at any point in time by either selling on the resale market, and we'd only be out closing, or renting our points in the short term.

I think all things considered, having a condo down there would have been a greater financial risk and a greater draw on our cash flow - we would have a constant burden to rent to cover the mortgage, monthly maintenance fees, utilities, etc. We could have rented it ourselves, but I just didn't want to do that work. We could have used a rental company - but I didn't want to take that risk that it wouldn't rent. My dad has worked in vacation property for 30+ years and there is quite a bit of money to be made there - but at the end of the day, it wasn't for us.

Aside from all that, it's not on Disney property. When I go down there, I want to be taken care of. I don't want to go on vacation to a place that is a burden - neither one of us wants to go on vacation to a "honey-do" list. After seeing my dad and my sister for years - the bottom line is that is exactly what happens when you vacation to a second home. We want to stay on Disney property. We don't want to worry about property maintenance when we are on vacation. Other than the theme parks, there really is no reason for us to go to central florida.

Aside from the capital outlay, our maintenance fees on DVC are only around $1800 a year. That is the only recurring cost. Depending on how things would have gone down with a condo, that amount would have covered two or three months of mortgage, maintenance fees and utilities, and we wouldn't be able to go down any more frequently than we do now (which as it is, is 3-4 times per year.) And we'd still be trying to figure out a way to get on property to pool hop and park for free.

Also - outside of RCID, would we REALLY want to be in Orlando? All things considered - unless we actually lived down there, the answer was no.

So - at the end of the day - no Orlando condo for us. We are looking at other places in which to invest one day - but it won't be in central Orlando.

And one other nice perk... if the bottom fell out on us financially, we could always go to the market and rent out a portion of our points to cover our maintenance fees for the year, and essentially vacation with zero out-of-pocket costs. And if we wanted to cash out, we could sell our points on the secondary market for MORE than what we paid. (That won't always be the case - but for now it is.) So, just continues to solidify the decision we made.

It's not the decision for everyone - but it has been the decision that worked best for us.

 

[Rumors Rocks]

No offense taken at all... in fact we looked at buying a condo in Orlando (a new construction near Celebration, as a matter of fact) before diving into DVC.

In the end, we decided not to do the condo for personal reasons. In my family, my father has accumulated number of beachfront condos in St. Pete and my sister has accumulated a couple of cabins in the north Georgia mountains. In addition - my dad rents condos for a number of other owners, and my sister rents cabins for several more cabin owners. These second, third, fourth (and so on) properties are their second jobs. As a practical matter, with two young elementary school kids and a full time job and a number of part time jobs on top of that (and my husband with a full time job) I didn't want that kind of other second (or third? fourth?) job.

We already had a second home exemption and with our current tax situation another piece of property wouldn't have helped us with Uncle Sam (unfortunately.) This was from three different advisers, so we sought second and third opinions on this. So, from a TAX position, having a condo down there would not have been helpful. Then why have the condo? An appreciable asset? Sure, but there is no guarantee that the asset would appreciate - we have seen many landowners in Florida lose a ton of equity over the past 5 years. I suppose over time, over 10 years it would likely appreciate - but I don't think I would have wanted to have put that many eggs in a basket. With DVC, there was a capital outlay - but we could get that money back at any point in time by either selling on the resale market, and we'd only be out closing, or renting our points in the short term.

I think all things considered, having a condo down there would have been a greater financial risk and a greater draw on our cash flow - we would have a constant burden to rent to cover the mortgage, monthly maintenance fees, utilities, etc. We could have rented it ourselves, but I just didn't want to do that work. We could have used a rental company - but I didn't want to take that risk that it wouldn't rent. My dad has worked in vacation property for 30+ years and there is quite a bit of money to be made there - but at the end of the day, it wasn't for us.

Aside from all that, it's not on Disney property. When I go down there, I want to be taken care of. I don't want to go on vacation to a place that is a burden - neither one of us wants to go on vacation to a "honey-do" list. After seeing my dad and my sister for years - the bottom line is that is exactly what happens when you vacation to a second home. We want to stay on Disney property. We don't want to worry about property maintenance when we are on vacation. Other than the theme parks, there really is no reason for us to go to central florida.

Aside from the capital outlay, our maintenance fees on DVC are only around $1800 a year. That is the only recurring cost. Depending on how things would have gone down with a condo, that amount would have covered two or three months of mortgage, maintenance fees and utilities, and we wouldn't be able to go down any more frequently than we do now (which as it is, is 3-4 times per year.) And we'd still be trying to figure out a way to get on property to pool hop and park for free.

Also - outside of RCID, would we REALLY want to be in Orlando? All things considered - unless we actually lived down there, the answer was no.

So - at the end of the day - no Orlando condo for us. We are looking at other places in which to invest one day - but it won't be in central Orlando.

And one other nice perk... if the bottom fell out on us financially, we could always go to the market and rent out a portion of our points to cover our maintenance fees for the year, and essentially vacation with zero out-of-pocket costs. And if we wanted to cash out, we could sell our points on the secondary market for MORE than what we paid. (That won't always be the case - but for now it is.) So, just continues to solidify the decision we made.

It's not the decision for everyone - but it has been the decision that worked best for us.

 

[boreas154]

What's with the necros?