How would you reform the US Education system.

[Glenn]

Ive only read some of the posts with some good & bad ideas out there. What I think will improve the schools is for many parents to get off their duffs & work with their kids. I know someone that teaches K & have heard storys of 5olds that don't know their full names, no ideas at all on how to count or know any letters, cann't tie their shoes and don't even know the primary colors. People need to take time to play & work with their kids. The excuse I'm busy or I don't have a good education doesnt wash. My parents worked long hours, my dad graduated HS then got drafted, mom dropped out at 16 but they always found time to do things like the ABCs, flash cards, taking us to the library kids programs. They never missed a parents day evening. Teachers & schools cannt do it all no matter how well they're paid or what new programs they have. A good education recuires a joint effort of family & school. nuff said

 

[Disneyluvr]

Also keep in mind that when comparing the US to other countries, by age 16 most other countries no longer have compulsory education-meaning, only the kids that WANT to be there are there, the other kids have moved into trade schools or the workforce so we are comparing ALL of our kids to the top 10% of everyone elses kids. I will stack our top 10% up against any country.

Also, I know of no other country that requires severely mentally handicapped kids to take standardized testing and "grades" their schools on how well these kids do-doesn't matter that they can't read or even feed themselves, they have to take the tests .

I will also say that extra curriculasr are NOT a conflict with education-in fact you will find that the best students in the schools are the ones involved in the extracurriculars. What IS at fault are the parents that think their child is Michael Jordan and have their 5 year old in 8 sports each season.

YES YES YES!!!! I have always said that we don't "look as good on paper" as say China or other countries because they only educate their smartest, wealthiest, most capable people. Don't fall into those catagories? than you're sent to work in a factory and that's that! Here we educate EVERYONE and expect EVERYONE to achieve the same level at the same time or cry that the teachers aren't doing enough! RIDICULOUS!

 

[daughtersrus]

My kids and I agree that going to school and learning those things makes us not kill each other.

They absolutely prefer to go to school. Homeschooling to them equates with stabbing of eyes with forks.

And well, my kids are so far ahead of me in math that I could not do it.

But reading, writing, math, science...are all life skills as well. So it we're going to require one group of children to learn their skills at home, why not require all groups?

As I said, my DD is in a self-contained class at school. Like your kids, she prefers to be at school instead of at home with me.

 

[golfgal]

I'd make several changes.

First, I'd reduce the size of school districts. I don't think that they gain significant economies of scale by being larger. Instead, I think that they lose accountability to the parents. In smaller districts, parents would have more control.

Set up a reliable and equitable means for funding school districts. Do it in a way that schools and districts that don't perform well lose students to schools that do. Encourage areas to experiment with a variety of school choice options. These could be charter schools, vouchers, or evening overlapping districts. The competition would be good for the schools and it would prevent students from being stuck in failing schools.

I would give the school districts much, much more autonomy. I trust the local voters to keep the school district in line more than I do state or federal guidelines. More autonomy would mean less administrative overhead and less straight-jacketing.

I would make teacher pay more variable and tied to performance. I would end tenure. Underperforming teachers should find other careers. Great teachers should be financially induced to continue teaching.

I would end education standards for teachers. It would be up to each district to set their own hiring standards.

I would end teachers unions or, at the very least, make all school worker positions "right-to-work".

The main thrust of my suggestions are to make schools more accountable to parents, to free schools from rules so that they can do what works best for their students, and to set up incentives to reward success and discourage things that don't work. I don't think that the answer is in dictating more or less testing, state standards for class sizes, or things like that. Let each district work out its own solutions to those problems and give parents the final say on which schools are doing a good job and which aren't.

I realize that would lead to some pretty wacko school districts emphasizing some out-of-the-box teaching. You might have creationist schools. You might have gradeless, non-competitive schools. You might have schools that track students strongly by ability or those that keep all kids grouped together. Time and parents will sort out what works and what doesn't.

I can tell you that living in a state that has had school choice for 20 years-long enough to know if it works or not--that the bad schools are still bad and the good schools are still good and giving a choice does NOTHING to change that. The main reason kids use it is to get into a district that has programs, usually sports, that they want. VERY few kids actually use it to move from one district to another for academic reasons. It also points right back to the FAMILY values in education vs the schools being at fault for the kids not succeeding. The worst district in our state (the Minneapolis public schools) has free busing for kids that want to move to a better, suburban district and only a handful of kids each year take advantage of that. Vouchers are NOT the answer but I LOVE having our statewide open enrollment option and would NOT change it for anything even though it isn't making the bad schools better-it does help if you have a job transfer, etc.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

But reading, writing, math, science...are all life skills as well. So it we're going to require one group of children to learn their skills at home, why not require all groups?

As I said, my DD is in a self-contained class at school. Like your kids, she prefers to be at school instead of at home with me.

My kids do learn that stuff "at home". We vacation, watch History, Discovery Channel, she reads me her stuff, etc., and on and on.

However as a "classroom setting" she can do that at school.

So I guess I should have said my kids get both already.

 

[gina2000]

Re: Attracting better teachers.

I think it would better to make a teaching degree a 5 or 6 year program. You would first have to obtain a traditional B.S. degree in a core subject. Math, science, English, etc. After demonstrating that mastery you would then be taught how to teach.

If teachers are going to school as long as lawyers, are you going to pay them like lawyers? (And yes, I know lawyers go to school for 3 years post grad but I think you get the idea...) You can't expect teachers to spend more time in school and make less money than other professionals.


I hate to say it, but discipline problems are killing education. When teachers spend more time trying to keep order in a classroom than actual teaching time, then there's a real problem. And you can't throw kids out...or if you can, it's for a very short period of time. As more and more kids are mainstreamed, behavior disabilities have become the mainstay of a traditional classroom setting. Districts can no longer afford to send discipline problems out of district. It places a huge burden on the teacher and other students. And there is no viable solution.

Also, it's rare to fail students and retain them. Most students get a summer packet (not even summer school) and move to the next grade. Where is the accountability? Bring back summer school.

Lastly, more and more students are coming into school with the attitude that school doesn't matter. They are not striving for their future prospects. There is no vision of future expectations. If a better future is not instilled in every facet of a child's life, the child will not perform.

Oh, and for the record, we do have 1 on 1 aides in classrooms with their student as well as a teacher and an in class support teacher. While it's not the norm, it's not rare at all.

 

[DawnM]

I see a lot of people saying that teacher performance should be tied to pay.

What standards would you use for teacher performance? I know this was argued before, but I am always curious as to WHO evaluates and by what criteria?

Test scores are NOT the answer for a huge variety of reasons.....one being, how do you evaluate special education teachers? PE teachers? ESL teachers?

What about teachers who choose to work with the lowest performers, like those in alternative education, or those in deep inner-city schools where students often don't even bother showing up half the time?

Dawn

 

[DawnM]

While I agree with you in theory, this often puts the lowest socio-economic areas as an even further disadvantage. There has to be better provision for those "left behind."

Dawn

I'd make several changes.

First, I'd reduce the size of school districts. I don't think that they gain significant economies of scale by being larger. Instead, I think that they lose accountability to the parents. In smaller districts, parents would have more control.

Set up a reliable and equitable means for funding school districts. Do it in a way that schools and districts that don't perform well lose students to schools that do. Encourage areas to experiment with a variety of school choice options. These could be charter schools, vouchers, or evening overlapping districts. The competition would be good for the schools and it would prevent students from being stuck in failing schools.

I would give the school districts much, much more autonomy. I trust the local voters to keep the school district in line more than I do state or federal guidelines. More autonomy would mean less administrative overhead and less straight-jacketing.

I would make teacher pay more variable and tied to performance. I would end tenure. Underperforming teachers should find other careers. Great teachers should be financially induced to continue teaching.

I would end education standards for teachers. It would be up to each district to set their own hiring standards.

I would end teachers unions or, at the very least, make all school worker positions "right-to-work".

The main thrust of my suggestions are to make schools more accountable to parents, to free schools from rules so that they can do what works best for their students, and to set up incentives to reward success and discourage things that don't work. I don't think that the answer is in dictating more or less testing, state standards for class sizes, or things like that. Let each district work out its own solutions to those problems and give parents the final say on which schools are doing a good job and which aren't.

I realize that would lead to some pretty wacko school districts emphasizing some out-of-the-box teaching. You might have creationist schools. You might have gradeless, non-competitive schools. You might have schools that track students strongly by ability or those that keep all kids grouped together. Time and parents will sort out what works and what doesn't.

 

[golfgal]

While I agree with you in theory, this often puts the lowest socio-economic areas as an even further disadvantage. There has to be better provision for those "left behind."

Dawn

Require anyone receiving federal/state aid to take parenting classes and put in so many hours in the schools. Have early childhood classes for parents and kids (Minnesota has this already) and REQUIRE attendance or no food stamps, etc.

 

[luvmyfam444]

Get rid of tenure!

 

[dejr_8]

Child development, psychology, sociology are all classes that teachers take. Are you saying that you need to be a psychologist and social worker before you can student teach and then get your teaching cert?

No. you are putting words into my mouth. I suggested teachers earn a core degree (math, science, english, history, etc) before learning how to teach. I was asked what degree a Special Ed teacher would get as a core degree - these were some examples.

 

[DawnM]

Most of our students were not on food stamps, their parents were working 16 hours a day in factories where you can't just take off work to volunteer in the schools.

I don't think Minnesota has the same immigration issues that California has.

Dawn

Require anyone receiving federal/state aid to take parenting classes and put in so many hours in the schools. Have early childhood classes for parents and kids (Minnesota has this already) and REQUIRE attendance or no food stamps, etc.

 

[dejr_8]

If teachers are going to school as long as lawyers, are you going to pay them like lawyers? (And yes, I know lawyers go to school for 3 years post grad but I think you get the idea...) You can't expect teachers to spend more time in school and make less money than other professionals.

Why not? For example, someone with a M.S. in Biology might not make as much as a Chemical Engineer with a B.S.

Each field has certain educational requirements that are somewhat independent of the ultimate pay-scale.

Teachers still have a more flexible schedule than other professions which partially compensates for less salary.

 

[daughtersrus]

No. you are putting words into my mouth. I suggested teachers earn a core degree (math, science, english, history, etc) before learning how to teach. I was asked what degree a Special Ed teacher would get as a core degree - these were some examples.

I believe that I asked what ElemEd as well as SpEd teachers would get their core degree in. ElemEd teachers generally teach all of the core subjects.

 

[golfgal]

Most of our students were not on food stamps, their parents were working 16 hours a day in factories where you can't just take off work to volunteer in the schools.

I don't think Minnesota has the same immigration issues that California has.

Dawn

Not the state as a whole but the Minneapolis Public schools do probably have a similar percentage. I also don't really think that the real issue with underperforming students comes from families where the parents are working their rears off tying to make a better life-it comes from those families that have made welfare a way of life.

 

[daughtersrus]

My kids do learn that stuff "at home". We vacation, watch History, Discovery Channel, she reads me her stuff, etc., and on and on.

However as a "classroom setting" she can do that at school.

So I guess I should have said my kids get both already.

The point that I was trying to make is that if as someone suggested, we require SpEd students to get their education at home instead of a classroom setting, why not do away with all classroom setting and require parents to teach their own children? A parent should have no problem teaching the skills learned at the elementary and middle school levels. Parents may need to brush up on their skills when their children get to the high school level.

 

[gina2000]

Why not? For example, someone with a M.S. in Biology might not make as much as a Chemical Engineer with a B.S.

Each field has certain educational requirements that are somewhat independent of the ultimate pay-scale.

Teachers still have a more flexible schedule than other professions which partially compensates for less salary.

Why not? It's very simple. Because the theory is that we seek to attract the best and the brightest....and the best and the brightest head for the place where they can pay off their student loans quicker or acquire wealth more rapidly.

It's very funny you should use the examples you did. My husband had a BS in Chemistry, discovered he couldn't make enough money as a bench chemist and went back for a BS CHemE. He originally could have had the ChemE degree in 4 years but didn't really think about it as a serious option. (And for the record, most firms want a PhD in the sciences for research - that's why he didn't do an MS). But the reality is that both make good incomes....though CHemEs' salaries outstrip a MA in Bio for the most part. Teachins has never been a stellar money maker so to demand that a prospective student put in more hours/money than currently expected may backfire.

I worked in the private sector for many, many more years than as a teacher. I made more money the first 2/3 years in the early 80s than I am currently making. Wanna know why I made the choice I did?

$$$$$

It's nice to eat.

 

[momof1princess]

i don't know about anywhere else, but where i live (NE alabama) schools are over-administrated. get rid of most of these people, who do nothing but sit around looking important, and put the money saved from their salaries back into the schools.

 

[jodifla]

The severely disabled should receive services but not in schools. What exactly are they being educated in? They are not learning math or science.

The amount spent is staggering.

This is not a very enlightened attitude.

 

[DawnM]

But student performance is still an issue.

Where I live now, all of these suggestions sound plausible....student performance is very high, parent involvement is very high, etc....

But what works here would never work in our inner city schools and then you have the evaluation issue....who evaluates and on what criteria.

Dawn

Not the state as a whole but the Minneapolis Public schools do probably have a similar percentage. I also don't really think that the real issue with underperforming students comes from families where the parents are working their rears off tying to make a better life-it comes from those families that have made welfare a way of life.