Response to ADA Suit

[aaarcher86]

I did post it- the 3rd link but here it is here: https://wdpromedia.disney.go.com/media/wdpro-assets/dlr/help/guest-services/guests-with-disabilities/Disney-Parks-Disability-Access-Service-Card-2014-04-10.pdf I do know that is not required by the ADA and something Disney have chosen to offer (just as the other park does). I only ever referenced this after 4 days, 4 parks and at least four different CMs. I asked to speak to a lead and in the conversation referenced this and asked why I was being told the DAS was the only accommodation when I met more than one criteria. He never gave me a meaningful answer. I would have been happy if he had said we do, but since that accommodation could not be workable with another disability related issue you bought up I would totally understand. Or any other actual meaningful reasoning other than respond with we only have DAS and you can take it or leave it.

Truly, I just don't know what more they could do. For someone with limited park time the combination of the DAS and FP+ allows for a minimum of 4 rides in 3 hours. Someone could easily get 5-6 rides in within that 3 hours.

Aside from offering a stack of immediate FP entrance cards that essentially just take the planning aspect out of it, I don't know what else they could offer and that just doesn't seem like a viable solution.

 

[2tinkerbell]

Nobodies - I am not able to see where Disney guarantees me 4 rides a day, disabled or not. Yes, that is the average # of rides a guest can do over a 365 day period. I emphasize average.

I feel bad that you have such a hard time with Disney. It must be very hard to live with your disabilities and to try to find some enjoyment.

 

[Laura66]

I still don't get what you want? From what I'm reading - are you saying you "need" some sort of immediate access to a certain number of attractions because you "might" fall asleep anywhere from 2-20+ hours?
I apologize if I'm misunderstanding.
From what I get - I don't understand everything about GAC or DAS - that is no longer an option. (Which I think is fair - unless it's a MAW situation)
I admit I'm curious as to how you deal with this in every day life. Child care? Did you mention if you drive? How do you ensure you check into your hotel or use transportation to get to they hotels or Disney?

 

[SueM in MN]

no more discussions about nobodies's situation

For whatever reasons, that poster does not think DAS, Fastpass + or what other things were being offered to them by Disney were helpful in their situation.

There has been quite a bit of discussion with no resolution.
We will just end it at that. No more discussions about the situation or answers about why or why not.

Any further discussions about this situation will be deleted.

 

[aaarcher86]

I can't remember which poster here is a lawyer...

But, what's the typical turnaround for this now that Disney has responded? Would it take another 3 months before a judge decides that it gets thrown out or goes to trial?

 

[Allison]

I can't remember which poster here is a lawyer...

But, what's the typical turnaround for this now that Disney has responded? Would it take another 3 months before a judge decides that it gets thrown out or goes to trial?

Jack is a lawyer-JCB.

 

[Bearshouse]

I am just hoping that all these lawsuits don't have Disney go to the same that Universal did. They have a new HUGS rule. If you can't hold your head unassisted, upper body unassisted, grasp continually, and take a step you can only do the 3 or 4 stationary things!!!!

At Disney my son gets to ride Mission space orange and can do none of the above mentioned things. He laughs, smiles and makes his sound for again every time he gets off any Disney ride. Seriously if we have to wait somewhere else cooler to get to ride I am all for that. If we have to make dining reservations at 180 days so we can sit down out of the heat so be it. If we have to schedule our FP+ 60 days to ride what he loves so be it. If we have to walk more and push his wheelchair more to make the DAS and FP+ work so be it.

But please don't take away the enjoyment of being able to just be a family for one week every other year. Disney is the only park that lets our son ride rides with the rest of us. He spends his whole life sitting on the sidelines vacation shouldn't be the same.

We are already planning our December 2015 trip. DS will be turning 16!! A milestone only one specialist out of fifteen said we would ever see. I would hate to have to tell him no mission space orange because others couldn't just follow the new rules.

Bearshouse

 

[lanejudy]

no more discussions about nobodies's situation

For whatever reasons, that poster does not think DAS, Fastpass + or what other things were being offered to them by Disney were helpful in their situation.

There has been quite a bit of discussion with no resolution.
We will just end it at that. No more discussions about the situation or answers about why or why not.

Any further discussions about this situation will be deleted.

Please heed Sue's warning, or the thread will be closed. Thank you.

 

[wilkeliza]

I am just hoping that all these lawsuits don't have Disney go to the same that Universal did. They have a new HUGS rule. If you can't hold your head unassisted, upper body unassisted, grasp continually, and take a step you can only do the 3 or 4 stationary things!!!!

At Disney my son gets to ride Mission space orange and can do none of the above mentioned things. He laughs, smiles and makes his sound for again every time he gets off any Disney ride. Seriously if we have to wait somewhere else cooler to get to ride I am all for that. If we have to make dining reservations at 180 days so we can sit down out of the heat so be it. If we have to schedule our FP+ 60 days to ride what he loves so be it. If we have to walk more and push his wheelchair more to make the DAS and FP+ work so be it.

But please don't take away the enjoyment of being able to just be a family for one week every other year. Disney is the only park that lets our son ride rides with the rest of us. He spends his whole life sitting on the sidelines vacation shouldn't be the same.

We are already planning our December 2015 trip. DS will be turning 16!! A milestone only one specialist out of fifteen said we would ever see. I would hate to have to tell him no mission space orange because others couldn't just follow the new rules.

Bearshouse

I honesty hope they don't get too strict. Like you said a lot of places won't let people ride for various reasons and Disney has only the minimum requirement for not ridding (pregnant, heart conditions etc) I met a gentleman who was paralyzed from the waist down. He can ride almost everything at Disney (he is working up to R&R said he needs crazy upper body strength for that) but other parks say no because neither of his legs work.

 

[JenniBugInPink]

I honesty hope they don't get too strict. Like you said a lot of places won't let people ride for various reasons and Disney has only the minimum requirement for not ridding (pregnant, heart conditions etc) I met a gentleman who was paralyzed from the waist down. He can ride almost everything at Disney (he is working up to R&R said he needs crazy upper body strength for that) but other parks say no because neither of his legs work.

I had to quit riding RNRC because, as I describe it to Husband, my head bounces around like a ping pong ball between the bars that hold most people in securely and when I get off I feel like I have a concussion. I get banged around horribly and have a terrible headache, feel muzzy headed/woozy, and even a little sick after getting off. I LOVE roller coasters!! That one is the only one that's ever caused me a problem. Weird. I'm really short, and short waisted, and I sit very low in the seat, which I think just causes a problem (obviously). Or, perhaps it's migraine related, or, maybe I just have a lot of empty space in my head, LOL!

Many folks have, as we have gone through these many pages, talked about how DAS as it is doesn't work for them but they were told that was all there was. People have been told or read repeatedly that the system can be individualized to meet guests' needs, but we haven't heard much about instances where that has happened. I just finished reading the Guide for Guests with Cognitive Disabilities published by Disney. There's a section in it that I can see would be open for interpretation, and is probably why some people are expecting "more than just the DAS" when they go to GR. (-The emphasis is mine. Jenni)

The Disability Access Service Card is designed for Guests who are unable to tolerate extended waits at attractions due to their disability, and the service allows Guests to schedule a return time that is comparable to the current queue wait for the given attraction. Depending on a Guest with a cognitive disability’s individual service needs, additional accommodations are available. To learn more about the Disability Access Service Card as well as additional accommodations available based on individual service needs, visit the Guest Relations lobby location near the entrance at any of the four Theme Parks.

If I had read that, AND I wanted special treatment for my child (or was used to receiving special treatment/FOTL access via the GAC), I can see why being told, "There's just the DAS, you'll have to make do with that and FP+." might make me angry. I'm not saying that the DAS and FP+ can't be made to work - don't misunderstand! I'm just saying that Disney has made a document that makes it sound like "there's more that can be done, just ask".

 

[lizzi6692]

I had to quit riding RNRC because, as I describe it to Husband, my head bounces around like a ping pong ball between the bars that hold most people in securely and when I get off I feel like I have a concussion. I get banged around horribly and have a terrible headache, feel muzzy headed/woozy, and even a little sick after getting off. I LOVE roller coasters!! That one is the only one that's ever caused me a problem. Weird. I'm really short, and short waisted, and I sit very low in the seat, which I think just causes a problem (obviously). Or, perhaps it's migraine related, or, maybe I just have a lot of empty space in my head, LOL!

I have the same problem. I think it may be height related, since I'm only 5'2". Although my DH did have a similar experience and he's 5'8", so I'm not sure.

 

[TulipsNZ]

I have the same problem. I think it may be height related, since I'm only 5'2". Although my DH did have a similar experience and he's 5'8", so I'm not sure.

Newish here, what is RNRC? I have this problem on many hanging coasters, is this one?
I'm 5'2 at a stretch

 

[lizzi6692]

Newish here, what is RNRC? I have this problem on many hanging coasters, is this one? I'm 5'2 at a stretch

Rock N Roller Coaster. It's not a hanging roller coaster, but it has multiple inversions, which for me causes my head to bang around the head rest. I've only ridden it once because it gave me a really bad headache after just one ride.

 

[SueM in MN]

It is quite difficult to get past the wild allegations.

If I could, I can't imagine the parents will get a return of GAC or "near immediate" access. If the parents can show, in practice, that DAS is such an abysmal failure that it means Disney is not willing to individually evaluate the modification their child needs, then perhaps. (I am not saying DAS works or not, I'm not qualified to say.)

But even here, the question would then be, what modification is reasonable under the circumstances. Disney doesn't have to provide every desired modification, just a modification that permits the full and equal enjoyment.

It's easy to see that the parties in the lawsuit are targeting the "full and equal enjoyment" - they go into great detail about the joy on their child's face, the full feeling of bliss,meta.

They seems to be making the claim that the only way they can get that is by bringing back GAC exactly the way they used it before - as an unlimited, anytime, ride any attraction as many times as you want without more than a few minutes wait....
Even at busy times like Christmas, even if it means riding multiple times on high demand attractions.

They were given individual accommodation according to the lawsuit - things like extra Fastpasses they could use any time and being given the first DAS Return Time at Guest Relations.
That is just not what they were looking for - the only thing they thought met their needs would be to reinstate the GAC, the way they used it.

As an example of giving access, but not being able to give full enjoyment -
Disney now has pool lifts at all pools. This makes it possible to put someone like my youngest DD into the pool.
But, she gets cold very quickly and doesn't have "full and equal enjoyment" of the pool because it is way too cold for her. That is directly related to her disability - she does not have enough fat to insulate her body well to conserve body heat, she can't move effectively in the water to generate body heat and the cold (to her) temperature makes her muscles tight. All of those things limit the time she can spend in the pool (she may be able to be in for only 10 minutes) and she does not have full and equal enjoyment.
Making the pool the same temperature as a hot tub would give her that same "full and equal enjoyment" as other guests because she needs water that hot to be comfortable in the water.

But, that would interfere with other guests' enjoyment because it would be way too hot for them to enjoy and, being that hot would limit their ability to stay in the pool.

One thing to remember:

Per ADA, Disney DOES NOT have to "change the nature of the experience." For example, if someone is terrified of the dark, Disney does not have to turn on the lights in Space Mountain or Haunted Mansion.

Also, if someone does not meet height requirements (by disability or otherwise) they are not permitted to ride.

If you cannot be safely strapped into the restraints due to missing limbs, body shape, etc, no amusement park is required to provide an "accommodation" to allow you to ride it.

My example above of the pool is changing the nature.

Newish here, what is RNRC? I have this problem on many hanging coasters, is this one?
I'm 5'2 at a stretch

Rock N Roller Coaster. It's not a hanging roller coaster, but it has multiple inversions, which for me causes my head to bang around the head rest. I've only ridden it once because it gave me a really bad headache after just one ride.

A good example of why it is not possible to give everyone full and equal enjoyment.

 

[asc]

I was interested in the actual language posted above:

The Disability Access Service Card is designed for Guests who are unable to tolerate extended waits at attractions due to their disability, and the service allows Guests to schedule a return time that is comparable to the current queue wait for the given attraction. Depending on a Guest with a cognitive disability’s individual service needs, additional accommodations are available. To learn more about the Disability Access Service Card as well as additional accommodations available based on individual service needs, visit the Guest Relations lobby location near the entrance at any of the four Theme Parks.

I guess, at least on paper, have the ability to accommodate things for guests although perhaps in practice, the DAS is it.

If that is the case, what is the point of the additional language?

Some have been dismissive of the idea about extending FP+ extension times and a few have slipped into the well normal people miss those to so why should you get extra...[the you're getting extra people]....but the above seems to suggest more is on the table than the DAS.

My child does have a cognitive disability so I actually care about what they mean by additional.

 

[wilkeliza]

I was interested in the actual language posted above:

The Disability Access Service Card is designed for Guests who are unable to tolerate extended waits at attractions due to their disability, and the service allows Guests to schedule a return time that is comparable to the current queue wait for the given attraction. Depending on a Guest with a cognitive disability’s individual service needs, additional accommodations are available. To learn more about the Disability Access Service Card as well as additional accommodations available based on individual service needs, visit the Guest Relations lobby location near the entrance at any of the four Theme Parks.

I guess, at least on paper, have the ability to accommodate things for guests although perhaps in practice, the DAS is it.

If that is the case, what is the point of the additional language?

Some have been dismissive of the idea about extending FP+ extension times and a few have slipped into the well normal people miss those to so why should you get extra...[the you're getting extra people]....but the above seems to suggest more is on the table than the DAS.

My child does have a cognitive disability so I actually care about what they mean by additional.

One additional service had been giving out the yellow no strings fast pass forms. Some families have gotten them and done have not. It really depends on what causes the issue. Does the person need to ride only one attraction all day? Do they need to ride a certain attraction x number of times before they will do anything else that day? In those situations they have offered the extra accommodations bit not typically to those who say the issue is the wait and only the wait.

 

[aaarcher86]

I was interested in the actual language posted above: The Disability Access Service Card is designed for Guests who are unable to tolerate extended waits at attractions due to their disability, and the service allows Guests to schedule a return time that is comparable to the current queue wait for the given attraction. Depending on a Guest with a cognitive disability’s individual service needs, additional accommodations are available. To learn more about the Disability Access Service Card as well as additional accommodations available based on individual service needs, visit the Guest Relations lobby location near the entrance at any of the four Theme Parks. I guess, at least on paper, have the ability to accommodate things for guests although perhaps in practice, the DAS is it. If that is the case, what is the point of the additional language? Some have been dismissive of the idea about extending FP+ extension times and a few have slipped into the well normal people miss those to so why should you get extra...[the you're getting extra people]....but the above seems to suggest more is on the table than the DAS. My child does have a cognitive disability so I actually care about what they mean by additional.

Additional could easily be in the form of giving your first return time at GR or a stroller as a wheelchair tag.

 

[infopurposesonly]

One additional service had been giving out the yellow no strings fast pass forms. Some families have gotten them and done have not. It really depends on what causes the issue. Does the person need to ride only one attraction all day? Do they need to ride a certain attraction x number of times before they will do anything else that day? In those situations they have offered the extra accommodations bit not typically to those who say the issue is the wait and only the wait.

Our family received them in May, and not for looping. I have several friends who have received them at WDW and Disneyland, not for looping, but because of issues with waiting, limited time in the park, and inability to plan for FP+ because of medical conditions.

 

[SueM in MN]

I was interested in the actual language posted above:

The Disability Access Service Card is designed for Guests who are unable to tolerate extended waits at attractions due to their disability, and the service allows Guests to schedule a return time that is comparable to the current queue wait for the given attraction. Depending on a Guest with a cognitive disability’s individual service needs, additional accommodations are available. To learn more about the Disability Access Service Card as well as additional accommodations available based on individual service needs, visit the Guest Relations lobby location near the entrance at any of the four Theme Parks.

I guess, at least on paper, have the ability to accommodate things for guests although perhaps in practice, the DAS is it.

If that is the case, what is the point of the additional language?

Some have been dismissive of the idea about extending FP+ extension times and a few have slipped into the well normal people miss those to so why should you get extra...[the you're getting extra people]....but the above seems to suggest more is on the table than the DAS.

My child does have a cognitive disability so I actually care about what they mean by additional.

Most of the comments on missing Fastpass times have been in reference to posters saying basically, "I don't want to make a Fastpass time because I might have to miss it".
That was where most of the comments have come in regarding people without disabilities also missing times. More to say, "don't be concerned about missing your time. It happens", than what it sounds like may be being read into it.

I mentioned some times leeway is already given - for shows that are not full or things that don't have a long wait.
There is also a bit of leeway built in - no one knows for sure, but it seems like about 15 minutes. I don't know if there is any way for CMs at attractions to override, but a first step would be having that ability and then having a way to see who would get override. Maybe if DAS gets incorporated into Magicbands at some point, that would be possible. At this point, as far as I know, it is not.

 

[wilkeliza]

Most of the comments on missing Fastpass times have been in reference to posters saying basically, "I don't want to make a Fastpass time because I might have to miss it".
That was where most of the comments have come in regarding people without disabilities also missing times. More to say, "don't be concerned about missing your time. It happens", than what it sounds like may be being read into it.

I mentioned some times leeway is already given - for shows that are not full or things that don't have a long wait.
There is also a bit of leeway built in - no one knows for sure, but it seems like about 15 minutes. I don't know if there is any way for CMs at attractions to override, but a first step would be having that ability and then having a way to see who would get override. Maybe if DAS gets incorporated into Magicbands at some point, that would be possible. At this point, as far as I know, it is not.

The built in wiggle room is 5 minutes before and 15 minutes after your hour window.