Taking your children for holidays during school is illegal in the UK

[alicat8]

In my job I hire graduates. I'd far rather hire a graduate with family travel experience than someone who has done nothing but school. But those are extremes.

The point of education is to prepare a kid for independent life and work and family. The point of education is not to be able to recite speak spear quotes or math formulae. In that life and family experience is as important as anything that happens in school. To be effective adults kids need street smarts as well as book smarts not either or.

Schools act as if they are the be all and end all to a kids education. They are not. Any kid who cannot catch up in his own time after only 1 weeks absence is gonna struggle in life, in work. Schools need to realise they have a place in kids lives but they do not come first family does. Family are responsible for a kids support and education long before school and long after.

I teach. Don't count me as "schools". Remember that most people who work in schools have ZERO say in education policy. (And I'm including voting in my ZERO, since our "pro-teacher" governor totally screwed us in the past few years)
But I agree with you 100%

 

[maxiesmom]

Whose child is it: The State or the parents?

Parents know the rules going in. If they don't agree with them, then find another district or home school.

 

[alicat8]

That brings up a good point. I don't think teachers SHOULD have vacation days during the school year, ESPECIALLY if the kids aren't allowed "vacation". Sick days or bereavement leave, sure.

We don't! That's why my Disney vacations are so expensive!!!

 

[EMom]

That brings up a good point. I don't think teachers SHOULD have vacation days during the school year, ESPECIALLY if the kids aren't allowed "vacation". Sick days or bereavement leave, sure.

I assume the teachers were taking vacation during school for the same reasons parents want to. Cheaper prices, spouse can get off work, not as crowded... I just thought if it was fair for them, it was fair for all. When I was teaching, we couldn't take time off for vacation. Clearly, the rules had changed. It just seemed hypocritical to say my child missing a week was somehow going to adversely impact her education, but if every one of her three teachers took off a week each, THAT had no effect.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Whose child is it: The State or the parents?

 

[Gumbo4x4]

No one is saying kids won't flourish if they don't take a vacation. People are saying it should not be illegal to take your kids on vacation.
I think anytime spent as family time is good. But vacations are the only time we can drop everything else and concentrate on family time. These memories are just as important as everyday memories.
I know my kids talk all the time about Disney. They also talk about memories made at home. You can make memories anywhere however I choose to make some at Disney, some in Ireland, some at the cabin, some at home ect. I personally would hate not having the control and feeling like a criminal while doing nothing wrong.

The thing about Disney & Ireland is they are "open" 365 days a year while school is only in session 180. It doesn't take a math whizz to note that you can do such a vacation AND still attend every day of school (again, assuming you aren't one of the small minority stuck in a job that doesn't permit you to take off when kids are off).

I have a bit more understanding for those who vacation in places that cannot be done during the break. If we want to see a new President sworn in, go to the World Series, or attend a family wedding, there's no flexibility there. Disney though? That one's a bit harder to justify

 

[EMom]

I'll be honest. I hate crowds and would skip WDW if I could only go in crowded times. In fact, we haven't been back since DD got too old to take out of school. Not worth it.

We usually took her out the week before everyone else got out for Christmas break. It wasn't crowded, and experience taught me that they weren't doing much of anything that week in school anyway. One year, she returned to school with all her assignments completed, only to find out the class had "gotten bogged down" and she was well ahead of everyone else.

 

[eliza61]

Yes, it is your child but your child lives in a society. societies do not exist for the benefit of one. They are called " public" schools because they have to address the needs of all, which is hard.

If you want to be the sole decision maker in your kids education without regard to school districts or bureaucracy then there are alternatives. my district elementary school has 400 kids, they cannot change or make policy to accommodate every individual child

 

[kaytieeldr]

In the U.S., the reason why this is even an issue is that states provide money on a per student / per day basis. If a child is not in school, the local school district loses money so many school districts frown on the practice. If this was just a concern about the child's education, parents and teachers could work together on making sure the child makes up the missing assignments either during or shortly after their vacation.

Again, it takes funding to provide education.

I wonder how many parents just claim the child is sick to miss a few days. Yes a few said only up to 3 can be missed without a doctors note but even so that would manage a 5 day vacation including the weekend.

Having a policy where students can only make up the work if they miss for X reason and not for Y to me just seems like telling everyone to just lie to the school on why they are out.

I know many of the times my mom took me out for a day when they called Dad would say I was sick. Now with many people not having home phones and just using cell phones that could work even when on vacation.

Which in turn demonstrates to children that it's acceptable to lie when it keeps you out of trouble.

I can tell you with absolutely certainty that this is NOT true for one of my kids. The only parts that do improve her education is the full parental support and her own full engagement in learning.

What kind of reporter doesn't ask that question?

Maybe one that attended school full time and never took family vacations.

More likely one that missed that lesson in writing or journalism class because they were out of school on a family vacation.

 

[TLSnell1981]

What about parents with split custody? Mom has them during the school year, but Dad gets them for the summer. Vacation time is severely limited. I guess, it just sucks for the children.

 

[bsblady01]

That brings up a good point. I don't think teachers SHOULD have vacation days during the school year, ESPECIALLY if the kids aren't allowed "vacation". Sick days or bereavement leave, sure.

we don't have vacation time during the school year

 

[Flight]

Do you all remember earlier in the year when a family attended the Boston Marathon requiring taking the kids out from school? The principal regarded it as unexcused absences. The dad wrote a letter to the school principal which is worth reading again.

Dear Madam Principal,

While I appreciate your concern for our children’s education, I can promise you they learned as much in the five days we were in Boston as they would in an entire year in school.

Our children had a once-in-a-lifetime experience, one that can’t be duplicated in a classroom or read in a book.

In the 3 days of school they missed (which consisted of standardized testing that they could take any time) they learned about dedication, commitment, love, perseverance, overcoming adversity, civic pride, patriotism, American history culinary arts and physical education.

They watched their father overcome, injury, bad weather, the death of a loved one and many other obstacles to achieve an important personal goal.

They also experienced first-hand the love and support of thousands of others cheering on people with a common goal.

At the marathon, they watched blind runners, runners with prosthetic limbs and debilitating diseases and people running to raise money for great causes run in the most prestigious and historic marathon in the world.

They also paid tribute to the victims of a senseless act of terrorism and learned that no matter what evil may occur, terrorists can not deter the American spirit.

These are things they won’t ever truly learn in the classroom.

In addition our children walked the Freedom Trail, visited the site of the Boston Tea Party, the Boston Massacre and the graves of several signers of the Declaration of Independence.

These are things they WILL learn in school a year or more from now. So in actuality our children are ahead of the game.

They also visited an aquarium, sampled great cuisine and spent many hours of physical activity walking and swimming.

We appreciate the efforts of the wonderful teachers and staff and cherish the education they are receiving at Rydal Elementary School. We truly love our school.

But I wouldn’t hesitate to pull them out of school again for an experience like the one they had this past week.

Thank you for your time.

 

[eliza61]

What about parents with split custody? Mom has them during the school year, but Dad gets them for the summer. Vacation time is severely limited. I guess, it just sucks for the children.

How?

How does it suck anymore than if a parent can't afford to go to wdw??? what, life's not worth living. my husband didn't take a vacation for 3 years when he was starting a business. life most certainly did NOT suck.

You do what a gabillion families have done for centuries, they have fun where they are. divorce is not new

Man, we have gotten way off course if a good childhood is determined by whether or not they see a cartoon mouse

Do you seriously feel that your kids life "sucks" if he never took another big trip??

 

[Flight]

That brings up a good point. I don't think teachers SHOULD have vacation days during the school year, ESPECIALLY if the kids aren't allowed "vacation". Sick days or bereavement leave, sure.

In our district, teachers can and do take vacations during times classes are in session.

 

[Madame]

In our district, teachers can and do take vacations during times classes are in session.

We are not allowed vacation time/personal days during the school year. I was honestly flabbergasted when I learned this happened in the US & some provinces. I even need to get a Dr's note if I'm ill the day before a holiday period. Now don't flame me, but seriously I get enough vacation periods. Do I pay through the nose to go on vacation? Almost every single time *sigh*.

As of Jan my DH will be starting a new position where he'll be low man on the totem pole. No way will he be able to get off the same periods that I as a teacher will have. We're trying to pack in as much as we can together now, but the kiddos & I will be flying solo for major vacations for the foreseeable. You just suck it up & move on.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Vacation would fall under liberty. But then again I guess not since taking your kids out of school for vacation is no longer your decision since you can be fined for it.

Well, no. It would fall under the pursuit of Happiness, IF it were assessed in the Declaration - which it's not.

 

[Hrhpd]

Whose child is it: The State or the parents?

Of course the child is the parent's and they can make the final decision.

But the school is the State's. And just like an employer, they can make their own rules. Just like they can make a dress code, they can decide what they will do when children do not attend.

Since the child is the parent's, the parents are completely in their right to make their own decisions for their child. Of course, those decisions need to be balanced against the consequences of that decision. And if the parents really don't like the rules of a certain school, the school is not forcing them to attend that particular school. Nobody is cracking a whip and saying "You have to attend RigidRule School." There are plenty of options for the parent to choose from. They can home school, they can go to a private school. But even with those options, there are going to be rules they have to follow.

What the parent cannot have is choosing a school with rules they don't like and then expecting the school to change their rules for them. That is having your cake and eating it too.

 

[Colleen27]

but who's doing is that Coll? Families uber schedule their kids. No one forces us to sign our kids up for every sport known to man. Sure there are professional consequences to taking vacations, just as their are professional consequences to being a stay at home mom, It's choices.

we lived in Lisbon for a few years when we were first married. Parent's got 6 months maternity leave paid for, yet we would scream at the taxes imposed if we implemented such a plan.

time together does not have to be a "vacation" as we think of such. It could be some thing as simple as Sunday dinners. look at the decision to keep stores open on Thanksgiving. who drives that? look to these boards, how many people swear by all that's holy that yes they have to shop on thanksgiving.

We can't have it both ways. Gumbo has it right, I wonder how much bloody hell folks here would raise if they were charged the cost basis for taking their kids out of school.

If we truly valued family time than our behavior would not support our current policies.

interestingly enough, since my kids lost their dad, "vacations" are not the things that are their "memories". it's the every day little things like the fun they had with dad at bath time.

WE (us consumer and parents) somehow turned that into "must have a 2 week paid vacation".

So let me ask you, if you didn't go on vacation, your kids would have no happy memories?

I think there's plenty of blame to go around, that's for sure. But even families who aren't over scheduling their kids struggle with this. You don't have to throw any sports into the mix for vacation planning to become difficult. Just a typical dual-income situation is hard enough to manage, especially if either of the parents are lower on the seniority totem or working in lower wage/lower skill industries that are extremely restrictive about when employees can vacation. But in general I think the culture of overwork is a problem. There shouldn't be professional consequences for taking earned vacation time. You shouldn't have to risk being labelled a slacker for spending time with family (and no, that doesn't just mean vacations - taking time off to attend kids' plays or sporting events carries the same penalty in many settings).

I'm with you on the stores on Thanksgiving. Black Friday ceased to be fun when it took over Thanksgiving so it isn't something we participate in any longer. I think we'd be a stronger nation and a better culture as a whole if we were more respecting of family time even if it does occasionally come at the expense of commerce, but clearly I'm in a minority for feeling that way.

And no, vacations aren't our only happy memories but they are some of the most special. We've never had a two week vacation; we simply can't take that much time because of the way work and school align, though hopefully we'll be able to in the future. But vacations are a level of family time that rarely happens when we're at home and the to-do list is beckoning and the kids' friends are dropping by and the electronics are competing for all of our attention. That's gotten better since DH closed his business - before he was a slave to his work phone and his hours were so erratic that it was hard to plan anything - but traveling still provides a different sort of togetherness that I'd hate to have to give up. It isn't necessarily the expensive vacations that make the biggest impression either - my kids LOVE the time we spend up north in a $50/night cabin, hiking and kayaking and swimming at state parks. It is just being away, just us, without all the "busy" of home pulling us in different directions.

 

[tcufrog]

How much math, English, science, American history, and whatever else was being taught in the scholarship while they were in Europe?

Actually all of it. The flights to and from Europe are quite long. When we weren't sleeping we were doing the work we'd miss. My parents photocopied the relevant pages from workbooks and textbooks and we did the work on the plane. The schools required that we write essays about what we learned on the trips and we wrote those on the flights back. I wish I still had those essays but the schools never returned the essays. Midterms never fell right before or after Thanksgiving and if a paper was due while we were gone we turned it in before we left for the trips.

 

[cjbcam]

Well, no. It would fall under the pursuit of Happiness, IF it were assessed in the Declaration - which it's not.

Liberty is
the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views.
"compulsory retirement would interfere with individual liberty"
synonyms: independence, freedom, autonomy, sovereignty, self-government, self-rule, self-determination etc
(There is more this is a piece quoted from the definition of liberty on the Internet)
Being fined for taking a vacation is not being free to make your own choice about when to vacation therefore it is taking away your liberty.